13 ms·
In a small trial, drugs seemed to rejuvenate the body’s ‘epigenetic clock’ (2019)
- darkerside 4y agoCan we add (2019) to the title?
- narrator 4y agoYou can do this at home, except for the little inconvenience that growth hormone is a scheduled drug. I wonder what the results would be with just growth hormone. Let's ask Sylvester Stallone[1] who looks great for 75 and got caught trying to get into Australia with illicit Growth Hormone a while ago[2]. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sylvester_Stallone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sylvester_Stallone [2]https://abcnews.go.com/Health/ActiveAging/story?id=3176015 https://abcnews.go.com/Health/ActiveAging/story?id=3176015
- cycrutchfield 4y agoAsk Dave Polumbo
- chefandy 4y agoGH by itself decreases insulin sensitivity, aggravates insulin resistance, and may significantly increase cancer risk.
- thelittleone 4y agoInsulin sensitivity and resistance are a non-issue if combining HGH with a low carb diet (such as keto) and fasting.
- pseingatl 4y agoIt has to be refrigerated, which makes travel difficult. Not to mention the hypodermics needed for intramuscular injections.
- thelittleone 4y agoGrowth hormone can be injected subcutaneously. They now come in convenient pens with adjustable dosage that are so fine you can't feel the prick. But yes, they must remain refrigerated.
- nick__m 4y agoYou can significantly boost your growth hormone level by using nicotinic acid (Niacin) and exercise, have a look at figure 3 in this paper https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/japplphysiol.00534.2007 https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/japplphysio... . According to that paper it doesn't have a significant effect on the performance during exercise but it has a large effect on the serum level of GH. However it should be noted that this experiment was conducted on young healthy men and I have no idea if Niacin have the same effect in women or older men.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- epicureanideal 4y agoI saw this article recently that also claimed something called E5 could roll back aging a bit. No idea of the merits of it. https://liveforever.club/blog/harold-katcher-s-e5-elixir-young-plasma-rat-trial-results https://liveforever.club/blog/harold-katcher-s-e5-elixir-you...
- astrange 4y agoThis article is a bit old (like the other comment about missing year tag says). I think there's newer news that AKG, an easy to get and cheap supplement, has anti-aging effects with no known issues. https://www.science.org/content/article/bodybuilding-supplement-promotes-healthy-aging-and-extends-life-span-least-mice https://www.science.org/content/article/bodybuilding-supplem...
- mbreese 4y agoThe actual paper is here [1]. And it’s not quite as conclusive in mammals yet. But it sounds like there is a clinical trial to actually study the supplement, which is a welcome thing in the anti-aging world. I’m happy to read that this work came out of the Buck Institute in Novato, which is a solid research institution. It’s also a beautiful campus. Disclaimer: I was there for a short stint as a postdoc a while back and not connected to this paper at all. [1] https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cmet.2020.08.004 https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cmet.2020.08.004
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- gniv 4y agoThat articles says "Alpha-ketoglutarate is a key metabolite in the tricarboxylic acid (TCA) cycle, and its levels change upon fasting, exercise, and aging." But there is no citation for this statement. Any idea where to read about how these levels change naturally?
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- hilbertseries 4y agoAnti-aging effects in mice*
- IshKebab 4y agoWe've got to be careful or we're going to end up with super-intelligent immortal mice!
- kalimanzaro 4y agoDoes anybody know if the East German sportsfolk doped HGH? According to a recent HN post, their lifespan got reduced by around a decade. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31591777 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31591777
- jokowueu 4y agoTeens there were give mega doses of multiple anabolics steroids Also hgh at a young age won't increase life span later in life anyways
- erosenbe0 4y agoHGH seems to increase insulin resistance so without other interventions (e.g. metformin) it may be pro-aging. Exceptional athletes in general may not have the same lifespan as age-matched healthy counterparts so not a good population to look at.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- xwdv 4y agoWhat does it really mean to rewind a persons age? Does hair get less gray, does skin get less wrinkly, does cartilage regrow?
- elihu 4y agoThis is a good question: > Horvath used four different epigenetic clocks to assess each patient’s biological age, and he found significant reversal for each trial participant in all of the tests. Presumably the "epigenetic clocks" are correlated with age, but it's not clear if changes to the epigenetic clocks causes aging, or aging causes changes to the epigenetic clocks. (Maybe it's both?) Is this like overhauling the engine in an old car to make it function like new, or is it more like rolling back the odometer to make it seem new?
- refurb 4y agoExactly. And this is why the FDA won't approve drugs based on changes to biomarker (which is what these "epigenetic clocks" are) unless a direct link between that biomarker and a beneficial outcomes has been proven.
- moh_maya 4y agounless its for Alzheimer's? [0] 'The FDA’s eventual decision to ignore the advice of its advisory committee and approve the drug, it says, was based on aducanumab’s ability to lower levels of amyloid plaques in the brain — protein clumps that some scientists think cause Alzheimer’s.' ... With aducanumab, the agency has shown that it is willing to push the paradigm to a broader set of people. One reason that decision has attracted criticism is that decreased levels of amyloid plaques are an unvalidated and contentious marker of a drug’s activity. In large trials of other Alzheimer’s drug candidates, amyloid lowering has not led to cognitive benefits, and this has made it a sticking point for researchers.' [0] [0] https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01763-9 https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01763-9
- nick__m 4y ago
- hericium 4y agoI was expecting the article would be about nicotinamide mononucleotide (NMN)[1]. "Lifespan..."[2], a book on the subject, and more recent publications also mention rapamycin[3][4][5] and metformin[6][7][8]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotinamide_mononucleotide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotinamide_mononucleotide [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifespan:_Why_We_Age_%E2%80%93_and_Why_We_Don%27t_Have_To https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifespan:_Why_We_Age_%E2%80%93... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sirolimus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sirolimus [4] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3972801/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3972801/ [5] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6814615/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6814615/ [6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metformin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metformin [7] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7990352/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7990352/ [8] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31405774/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31405774/
- awsrocks 4y ago
- Teever 4y agohttps://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31577871 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31577871 This was a recent story that I wish had gained more traction.
- davidedicillo 4y agoFor anyone interested in the topic, I'd encourage reading "Lifespan" by David A. Sinclair. As someone with little to no-knowledge about aging (other than feeling the effects of aging on myself) I found it very instructive on how our aging clock works and what are some of the ongoing studies to slow down or revert aging.
- jeppebemad 4y agoI can the recommend recent interview with him on the The Knowledge Project podcast. Had a lot of aha-moments listening to that.
- bredren 4y agoThanks for the tip.
- jamesblonde 4y agoSorry, but he oversells his work. He has not contributed so much on epigenetics, but rather nad as a supplement. He oversells nad as a longevity aid. However, he advocates intermittent fasting, and i heard from a epogenetics research leader that there is an ongoing trial for intermittent fasting reducing your epigenetic age. So sinclair is not wrong on that, probably.
- machinelearn 4y agoBelieve this was posted on hn before, but this article is in-depth on the current state https://www.adanguyenx.com/blog/partial-reprogramming https://www.adanguyenx.com/blog/partial-reprogramming
- giardini 4y agoWhat are the 3 ingredients? HGH, possibly metformin and what else? The article does not clearly state.
- donthellbanme 4y ago
- ceasesurthinko 4y agodehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA)
- LinuxBender 4y agoDHEA, Metformin and HGH. My personal preference is to replace Metformin with Berberine since I can get it online or grow it in a greenhouse and it is less likely to induce lactic acidosis. One can fast for 72+ hours to get a massive spike in HGH. I am not a doctor and this is not medical advice. I also consume desiccated Thymus in capsule form following the "like improves like" theories. Here is a video discussing the latest results the article is talking about [1]. [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KukRAXnNOJM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KukRAXnNOJM
- giardini 4y agoLinuxBender says >" One can fast for 72+ hours to get a massive spike in HGH."< Relevant URL: https://hrtguru.com/does-fasting-really-increase-hgh-levels/ https://hrtguru.com/does-fasting-really-increase-hgh-levels/ referenced articles therein say fasting 48 hours causes a 5-fold increase in HGH, fasting 5 days causes a 10-fold increase, but that 5 days of fasting also makes the cells unable to utilize the extra HGH: "Despite the fact that fasting may increase your growth hormone, it actually suppresses the anabolic effects of HGH. That’s because fasting lowers the sensitivity of your cells towards HGH, and decreases its main anabolic mediator called Insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF-1). Thus you will not experience the benefits of increased HGH on muscle mass, energy levels, etc. ..."
- LinuxBender 4y ago
- throwaway742 4y agoAm I the only one who thinks immortality is a nightmare? I don't understand people who want to live forever.
- karmakurtisaani 4y agoYou might change your mind when you're older. And wealthier.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- celim307 4y agoIf my quality of life remains high and I can still choose to end things when I want, I don’t see an issue. Then again there’s probably psychological cost and I may end up a sociopath
- bowsamic 4y agoHN is the only place where I’ve seen people purpose immortality as a legit goal. I think it’s because of lack of religion. If you are existentially scared of death and you are a techie, it makes sense
- veltas 4y agoNot to self-own or anything but I'm religious and lots of religions have a message of immortality for the virtuous, e.g. Christianity, Islam. But our method of achieving it is spiritual, not technical. I think pretty much every normal person fears death right up to the end, unless they're seriously suffering in their body.
- bowsamic 4y agoI’m a Buddhist and fear of death is one of the first things we work to get rid of
- random_upvoter 4y agoIsn't it weird how we were created by a supposedly "dumb" universe but yet we can't find the cheat code?
- mft_ 4y agoQuite the opposite, I think? Because the process is ‘dumb’ (as you put it) we evolved via chaos rather than order. It therefore follows that how we work is complex and disordered - and an easy ‘cheat code’ doesn’t exist.
- jamesblonde 4y agoEpigenetics is fascinating. I just came back from a project meeting, where i work with people who discovered that HRT (hormone replacement therapy) slows down epithelial cell aging. Epithelial cells are the cells that cover all your vital organs, so they are important for aging. Now, there are even commercial companies that measure Epigenetic age of cells with a technique called DNA methylation. References: https://investinaustria.at/en/news/2022/03/epigenetic-clock-university-of-innsbruck.php https://investinaustria.at/en/news/2022/03/epigenetic-clock-... https://www.mydnage.com/?gclid=Cj0KCQjwheyUBhD-ARIsAHJNM-MrkfOmec1lY-Eb-aiITIqCWiKgVvhH0b_FrhcMKEvqIzTd9xj5MA4aAtHPEALw_wcB https://www.mydnage.com/?gclid=Cj0KCQjwheyUBhD-ARIsAHJNM-Mrk...
- aaaaaaaaaaab 4y agoTime to hit up my gymrat brother for some testosterone I guess!
- moonchrome 4y agoNot sure riding high on dirty test (dosing TRT levels off toilet test going around gyms will be next to impossible) will slow down ageing - but it will probably make you juicy. Make sure to hit the gym to double the gainz.
- aaaaaaaaaaab 4y agoOh, forgot to add that my brother is also an MD resident ;) Although he’s doing opthamology :/
- realitsflat 4y agoDNA methylation is not a technique that can be applied. It is a biological system present in your cells silencing expression of genes that are not useful for a cells current behavior. Differently differentiated cells have different "genes methylated" and thus inactivated which govern their behavior and potential for further sub-differentiation. Indiscriminately "reversing methylation" would probably lead to a lot of "cancering".
- 01100011 4y ago
- meowkit 4y ago1) There is no "epigenetic clock theory". There is an epigenetic clock though, and it's a well established system[0]. They are talking about measuring a cellular "age" by measuring the methylation/acetylation tags on DNA and histones. These tags are essential for specialized cellular function and a core part of Horvath's/Sinclair's "epigenetic theory of aging". 2) Sinclair is not a quack, and to depict him as such doesn't help whatever opinion you're parroting. The guy has quite the resume, and obviously playing the social media game doesn't mean you should dismiss that. 3) Linking a tweet that essentially says "no you're wrong" is adding to the noise and isn't helpful. Brenner is saying reversing epigenetic age isn't going to make you immortal, which is true. It doesn't mean Sinclair's work is BS. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetic_clock https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetic_clock
- 01100011 4y agoFollow Brenner for a while on Twitter and you'll come to realize most of Sinclair's public claims are pure BS. > There is no "epigenetic clock theory". There is an epigenetic clock though Well, there's an epigenetic clock wikipedia page, but yes it's a theory that those epigenetic markers are meaningful indicators of age. Except there are pro-aging molecules like hGh which reverse some of the epigenetic markers despite being pro-aging. I don't know man, I'm just a SWE, so I'll leave this to the PhD's, but clearly many of Sinclair's claims are false, similarly to Dr. Huberman. A lot of SiValley folks have bought into their futuristic promises despite most of them relying on poor science.
- asimpleusecase 4y agoI’m no fan of death, but death (by natural causes - age, sickness , accident) has been how different generations have gotten rid some of the worst despots.
- mrcartmeneses 4y ago“The hate of men will pass and dictators die. And the power they took from the people will return to the people. And so long as men die, liberty will never perish."
- richardw 4y agoSimilarly: "Science progresses one funeral at a time". https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck%27s_principle https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck%27s_principle
- Dudeman112 4y agoSounds like a self solving problem. I reckon people will start caring about their despots if they expect to live a millennium under the despots' boot
- r3drock 4y agoI would not be so sure about that. If you were expecting to live a much longer life, people might grow more fearful about the consequences of speaking up against a dictator.
- BurningFrog 4y agoI suspect people not caring is not the main underlying cause of despots.
- DarylZero 4y agoDespots make sure the people who care are killed off (or at least marginalized, say in prison), leaving only people who don't.
- 4y ago
- __warlord__ 4y agoI'll be happy if two things happen: 1. I can have "better years" in the same lifespan. Lots of energy at 90 for instance. 2. I can increase the lifespan of my dog by 50 years :)
- xiphias2 4y ago90 is still an exceptional lifespan even if you take care of yourself. Human system breaks down randomly after the age of 70, and the complete breakdown depends on luck.
- gdudeman 4y agoIf you have a large dog, you can sign up for a lifespan extension study now with rapamycin. https://dogagingproject.org/ https://dogagingproject.org/
- more_corn 4y agoI think daily exercise can get you #1 As for #2 Totally. We’ll only show that we deserve longer lifespans if we solve it first for dogs.
- Shorn 4y agoYou are planning on asking the dogs if they really want to do that first, right?
- xiphias2 4y agoIt was a great validation, that reversing epigenetics is possible in the human body, but using Yamanaka factors to do the same thing has much more investment dollars behind it (billions vs millions), so I believe it will be ready on the market faster.
- krageon 4y agoIf money was what it took to be correct in medicine, Theranos would be a huge success.
- xiphias2 4y agoAre you really comparing Theranos to the Nobel prize winning Dr Yamanaka, and the amazing group of scientists who have put their lives to work on cellular reprogramming? Of course it's more than just about money, it looks like it's the more efficient path, but there's a huge need in research to stop cells from losing their identity during partial reprogramming (and cause cancer).
- krageon 4y ago> Are you really comparing Theranos to the Nobel prize winning Dr Yamanaka [...] I was responding directly to what you said, this is a strawman. > Of course it's more than just about money [...] This is not the impression I got from your post, because all you talked about was money.
- xiphias2 4y agoI think both approaches are amazing advancement for humanity, and I wish Greg Fahy would get more funding as well. Before Jeff Bezos came in, the money was really really missing from the longevity field that I have been following for the last 10 years since I've got a serious rare, but not deadly cronic illness. Maybe I've got a bit sad when you refered money as not the most important thing, because Gregory Fahy said during an interview that they had to stop the experiments because of lack of funding. They needed a few million dollars to run the experiments, which is nothing compared to the value they can provide compared to rejuvenating people. I was thinking of investing personally, but I'm too small to be an investor myself. Altos Labs being created is a huge deal, because when the technology works (and at this point there's no reason why it wouldn't), it can save the lives of literally billions of people. Maybe it's hard to see through my comments, but I truly care, and I'm hopeful that both of us (you and me) will be able to use it.
- johnlbevan2 4y agoPresumably 6 months later you'll have to put your body clock forwards again in time for Spring.
- swader999 4y agoDepends where you live.
- mtw 4y agoDid they continue tracking health effects years after they study ? It’s possible the drugs reversed the body clock but will accelerate it after. Much like coffee gives you a temporary boost, then makes you crash later
- beanjuice 4y agoBy what basis do you make this estimation? The factors for aging and feeling awake arent exactly comparable.
- DarylZero 4y agoThey're both cyclical.
- lallysingh 4y agoHow's aging cyclical?
- monus 4y agoThey're conducting a Phase II trial now with 85 participants, the completion date is set to November 2022. https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04375657 https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04375657
- losvedir 4y agoI'm getting somewhat interested in this topic. How did you know about this trial? I'm curious what good news sources are to follow so I can see when the results are out.
- mrnotcrazy 4y agoSo if I am understanding this right, this is turning back the epigenetic clock but not rejuvenating the individual? So it could help prevent aging but not reverse. As we age does our body act differently to make life easier as we get older? If so could this make life worse?
- SubiculumCode 4y agoI thought for a second that this was a branch off of R.
- steeleyespan 4y agoExercise, fasting, and saunas are probably the strongest things we can control here.
- cerol 4y agoIf a cheap, reliable technique of halting or slowing down the "epigenetic clock" hits the market, and assuming its main effect on a population level is increased life span, wouldn't it make the demographics of most developed countries even worse? It's still unclear whether or not "automation" will compensate an ageing population, and prevent a demographic collapse. But having a pill that makes people live longer (even if it's 5 to 10 years), wouldn't it be like throwing an entire gas station into the fire?
- forum_ghost 4y ago> throwing an entire gas station into the fire? Why? Longer span can also mean longer healthspan.
- stevenjgarner 4y agoIf an ageing population has increased health span, they will also be able to work and contribute longer. "Population growth has declined mainly due to the abrupt decline in the global total fertility rate, from 5.0 in 1960 to 2.3 in 2020. The decline in the total fertility rate has occurred in every region of the world and is a result of a process known as demographic transition." [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_decline https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_decline
- Qem 4y agoDepends on where the additional years are added. Around the middle of life or in its end.
- gdudeman 4y agoBefore you run out to get some growth hormone, you should be aware that metformin seems to extend health span and life span quite effectively alone. Even people with diabetes live longer on metformin than a control group that is not on metformin. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25041462/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25041462/
- altgeek 4y agoThe issue with metformin is your own personal gastrointestinal sensitivity to it. If you're tried it in the past and quit, people have reported success with the time-released variant. See https://www.drugs.com/pro/metformin-extended-release-tablets.html https://www.drugs.com/pro/metformin-extended-release-tablets...