4 ms·

Tesla may not be the future of EVs, but we have to thank them for dragging everyone else into the present.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
kcb 4y ago
> Tesla may not be the future of EVs Based on what metric? I have a hard time looking at Tesla's sales, revenue, profit, production capacity growth and not thinking they will continue to be a leader in EVs far into the future.
- fnordpiglet 4y ago
  Does speculation require a metric?
  - kcb 4y ago
    No? I asked a question.
  - Gigachad 4y ago
    Do you have a citation for that opinion?
- tempsy 4y ago
  people said the same about Netflix vs other streaming competitors you’re the leader and category creator until one day you’re just another player in a sea of competition
- mesh 4y ago
  He said "may not", which is the same as saying "may".
  - kcb 4y ago
    Ok...this isn't that hard. If someone says you may light on fire tomorrow. You're probably going to ask for a little bit of an explanation.
    - thrill 4y ago
      No, it's not that hard. He could have used the word "necessarily" after "not", but the meaning was still clear.
      - kcb 4y ago
        Ok. Glad you cleared that up...seems like the author of the statement is in disagreement.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- ldoughty 4y ago
  I agree with the OP, and: There's no hatchback, mini, SUV, or truck models available yet... And it feels like Tesla is even further behind in these areas because they are not giving any roadmap details (that I've heard of), while other companies have offerings available now. I hope Tesla can remain a market disruption and continue to push people to electric, but they currently are a one trick pony (which isn't a bad thing, it let them enter the space)... But as a one trick pony, I would agree they do not currently "look like THE future of EVs"
  - wumpus 4y ago
    Tesla's roadmap is that they're growing > 50%/year as long as their current product line remains hot.
    - gre 4y ago
      More and more teslas are spontaneously catching fire.
      - wumpus 4y ago
        There are a couple of EV models with a particular battery manufacturer (LG) that were recalled for a fire problem. 72,000 cars for GM Bolt, the most popular one. Tesla shipped that many cars in 2016, and is growing 50%/year.
  - benhurmarcel 4y ago
    Isn't the Model Y an SUV?
- rootusrootus 4y ago
  Tesla can sell you a mid-size sedan or a CUV, ignoring the relatively small niche occupied by the S and X. Ford competes directly with the Y, and also in an entirely new segment Tesla does not compete in -- the pickup. Chevy has the pickup coming, and already competes in the affordable compact car segment (27K MSRP for a Bolt? That's getting into 'excellent value' territory) that Tesla does not compete in. GM also has the Hummer, which is blazing an entirely new trail. Then you have VW, Kia, Polestar, etc. Tesla has a nice head start, and a good charging network, but rivals are catching up fast and will end up outpacing what Tesla can offer. The Model S is aging, with no apparent revamp in sight, and if the Model 3 follows that same pattern then Tesla is quickly going to look outdated while the competition is one-upping each other in new designs. There's also a fair number of people who do care about reliability, don't want a touchscreen dashboard, don't care about fart gimmicks, and want windshield wipers that just work. AP is no better than the competition, and FSD is a gimmick that appeals to a very particular kind of buyer. I enjoyed my P3D but have no expectation I will buy another.
  - vanshg 4y ago
    Model S is aging in what aspect? It was just refreshed. Do you want change for the sake of change?
- LeoPanthera 4y ago
  > Based on what metric? Well, personally, based on Elon Musk's Twitter. Unless he is leaving the company very soon, he's going to take the company down with him. From a more technical perspective, they're literally the only EV manufacturer selling cars in the US without a CCS connector. (With the minor exception of Nissan, who have already announced that the Leaf will switch from Chademo to CCS.) And finally, from an "I actually own a Tesla" perspective. I would never buy another one. Not because of the car, which is fine, but because of the service experience. It's awful. It's so bad, I have trouble putting into words how terrible it is. I live in fear that something will go wrong with my Tesla again, because getting it fixed will be yet another nightmare.
- prawn 4y ago
  I think they were qualifying their statement to avoid it getting sidetracked, and it still got sidetracked in the other direction!
qbasic_forever 4y ago
Non-negotiable car sales aren't new, Saturn was famous for doing it in the 90s. Their whole deal was to try to target younger buyers that didn't like the typical haggling process. Toyota did the same thing with their Scion sub-brand for the same reasons too.
- spywaregorilla 4y ago
  Not online though. I don't want to talk to a dealer.
  - fnordpiglet 4y ago
    Yeah I bought both a Saturn in the 90’s and a Tesla in the 20’s, and while it was nice to not have to negotiate to not be screwed over I still had to spend way longer hanging out with dealer sales people. Being an engineer I hate talking to people. I much preferred my Tesla purchase experience.
  - CydeWeys 4y ago
    It was a different time back then. If they were still around today they might well be doing it online too.
- pishpash 4y ago
  If you want a non-negotiable price, just don't negotiate the price? I mean a firm asking price doesn't mean a good price.
  - Someone1234 4y ago
    That's not reasonable. The "negotiation" is literally built into the price, essentially both sides assume there will be as a nominal discount, and if there isn't one you're actually overpaying. So telling people "just don't negotiate" is about as reasonable as telling people "just don't tip" in mandatory tipping situations, it is a nice concept but ignores the economic reality of people trapped in the messed up system.
bin_bash 4y ago
Absolutely: dealers make the car buying experience terrible and expensive. Good riddance to that scum of an industry.
- pishpash 4y ago
  Wait till you deal with real estate agents, or any middle man.
  - ericd 4y ago
    Plenty of people rooting for their demise, too.
    - mjh2539 4y ago
      Without them you'd only have recourse to attorneys. Deeds and contracts and all that. Plenty of people are rooting for their demise too.
  - bin_bash 4y ago
    I've purchased many homes and they're not great either but they're not as bad. First, I'm not required to go through a real estate agent by law. Real estate agents do a lot of work I'd rather not do in setting up the transaction. When it comes to purchasing a car the dealer doesn't do anything I couldn't trivially do myself. Dealers are government corruption plain and simple. They offer next to nothing, sometimes scam us outright, but we are required to patronize them if we want a new vehicle. Real estate agents on the other hand mostly just charge too much.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

kcb 4y ago

> Tesla may not be the future of EVs Based on what metric? I have a hard time looking at Tesla's sales, revenue, profit, production capacity growth and not thinking they will continue to be a leader in EVs far into the future.

fnordpiglet 4y ago
Does speculation require a metric?
- kcb 4y ago
  No? I asked a question.
- Gigachad 4y ago
  Do you have a citation for that opinion?
tempsy 4y ago
people said the same about Netflix vs other streaming competitors you’re the leader and category creator until one day you’re just another player in a sea of competition
mesh 4y ago
He said "may not", which is the same as saying "may".
- kcb 4y ago
  Ok...this isn't that hard. If someone says you may light on fire tomorrow. You're probably going to ask for a little bit of an explanation.
  - thrill 4y ago
    No, it's not that hard. He could have used the word "necessarily" after "not", but the meaning was still clear.
    - kcb 4y ago
      Ok. Glad you cleared that up...seems like the author of the statement is in disagreement.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
ldoughty 4y ago
I agree with the OP, and: There's no hatchback, mini, SUV, or truck models available yet... And it feels like Tesla is even further behind in these areas because they are not giving any roadmap details (that I've heard of), while other companies have offerings available now. I hope Tesla can remain a market disruption and continue to push people to electric, but they currently are a one trick pony (which isn't a bad thing, it let them enter the space)... But as a one trick pony, I would agree they do not currently "look like THE future of EVs"
- wumpus 4y ago
  Tesla's roadmap is that they're growing > 50%/year as long as their current product line remains hot.
  - gre 4y ago
    More and more teslas are spontaneously catching fire.
    - wumpus 4y ago
      There are a couple of EV models with a particular battery manufacturer (LG) that were recalled for a fire problem. 72,000 cars for GM Bolt, the most popular one. Tesla shipped that many cars in 2016, and is growing 50%/year.
- benhurmarcel 4y ago
  Isn't the Model Y an SUV?
rootusrootus 4y ago
Tesla can sell you a mid-size sedan or a CUV, ignoring the relatively small niche occupied by the S and X. Ford competes directly with the Y, and also in an entirely new segment Tesla does not compete in -- the pickup. Chevy has the pickup coming, and already competes in the affordable compact car segment (27K MSRP for a Bolt? That's getting into 'excellent value' territory) that Tesla does not compete in. GM also has the Hummer, which is blazing an entirely new trail. Then you have VW, Kia, Polestar, etc. Tesla has a nice head start, and a good charging network, but rivals are catching up fast and will end up outpacing what Tesla can offer. The Model S is aging, with no apparent revamp in sight, and if the Model 3 follows that same pattern then Tesla is quickly going to look outdated while the competition is one-upping each other in new designs. There's also a fair number of people who do care about reliability, don't want a touchscreen dashboard, don't care about fart gimmicks, and want windshield wipers that just work. AP is no better than the competition, and FSD is a gimmick that appeals to a very particular kind of buyer. I enjoyed my P3D but have no expectation I will buy another.
- vanshg 4y ago
  Model S is aging in what aspect? It was just refreshed. Do you want change for the sake of change?
LeoPanthera 4y ago
> Based on what metric? Well, personally, based on Elon Musk's Twitter. Unless he is leaving the company very soon, he's going to take the company down with him. From a more technical perspective, they're literally the only EV manufacturer selling cars in the US without a CCS connector. (With the minor exception of Nissan, who have already announced that the Leaf will switch from Chademo to CCS.) And finally, from an "I actually own a Tesla" perspective. I would never buy another one. Not because of the car, which is fine, but because of the service experience. It's awful. It's so bad, I have trouble putting into words how terrible it is. I live in fear that something will go wrong with my Tesla again, because getting it fixed will be yet another nightmare.
prawn 4y ago
I think they were qualifying their statement to avoid it getting sidetracked, and it still got sidetracked in the other direction!

qbasic_forever 4y ago

Non-negotiable car sales aren't new, Saturn was famous for doing it in the 90s. Their whole deal was to try to target younger buyers that didn't like the typical haggling process. Toyota did the same thing with their Scion sub-brand for the same reasons too.

spywaregorilla 4y ago
Not online though. I don't want to talk to a dealer.
- fnordpiglet 4y ago
  Yeah I bought both a Saturn in the 90’s and a Tesla in the 20’s, and while it was nice to not have to negotiate to not be screwed over I still had to spend way longer hanging out with dealer sales people. Being an engineer I hate talking to people. I much preferred my Tesla purchase experience.
- CydeWeys 4y ago
  It was a different time back then. If they were still around today they might well be doing it online too.
pishpash 4y ago
If you want a non-negotiable price, just don't negotiate the price? I mean a firm asking price doesn't mean a good price.
- Someone1234 4y ago
  That's not reasonable. The "negotiation" is literally built into the price, essentially both sides assume there will be as a nominal discount, and if there isn't one you're actually overpaying. So telling people "just don't negotiate" is about as reasonable as telling people "just don't tip" in mandatory tipping situations, it is a nice concept but ignores the economic reality of people trapped in the messed up system.

bin_bash 4y ago

Absolutely: dealers make the car buying experience terrible and expensive. Good riddance to that scum of an industry.

pishpash 4y ago
Wait till you deal with real estate agents, or any middle man.
- ericd 4y ago
  Plenty of people rooting for their demise, too.
  - mjh2539 4y ago
    Without them you'd only have recourse to attorneys. Deeds and contracts and all that. Plenty of people are rooting for their demise too.
- bin_bash 4y ago
  I've purchased many homes and they're not great either but they're not as bad. First, I'm not required to go through a real estate agent by law. Real estate agents do a lot of work I'd rather not do in setting up the transaction. When it comes to purchasing a car the dealer doesn't do anything I couldn't trivially do myself. Dealers are government corruption plain and simple. They offer next to nothing, sometimes scam us outright, but we are required to patronize them if we want a new vehicle. Real estate agents on the other hand mostly just charge too much.