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I’m probably in the minority, but I’m not thrilled with perpetual remote work. I wouldn’t be where I am if remote work was the norm, and I worry about my abil

• ARandomerDude 4y ago
  I disagree but have no idea why you're getting downvoted. You stated your point clearly and without malice. That said, I think the ability to advance is highly dependent on (1) what type of work you're in, and (2) the culture of the company. If the type of work you're in is genuinely remote-compatible, the prevalence of remote work will actually help solve the problem you're concerned about. I know many who work full-time remote positions in big corps and have not had trouble advancing.
  • Gigachad 4y ago
    The topic has become highly political because other people going to the office or speaking positively about offices threatens remote work for the rest. Same thing that happened with masks, no one was ok with someone else choosing differently because the bigger group would force their way over the smaller group.
    • oaiey 4y ago
      In some way that process is called Democracy :) but also mob rule :)
      • mantas 4y ago
        In democracy it depends which side can found a louder expert. Either it's human right to work from home and everybody must adhere. Or human right to see coworkers and everybody must go to offices.
        • oaiey 4y ago
          What is a human right is a majority decision right?
          • mantas 4y ago
            Didn’t see a referendum for appending human rights. Recently it seems like fringe organizations declaring something a human right is a way to try to override democratical process.
    • nharada 4y ago
      With masks though people wearing masks didn't at all affect the people not wearing them. Remote work is tough because either: * You want to be in-person: If everyone is remote there's no point in going in. * You want to be remote: If everyone is in-person, you're at a career disadvantage.
      • ziml77 4y ago
        What you're saying about masks isn't true. Unless they're N95 or similar masks, people with masks on were doing more to protect others than themselves. Cloth masks don't really impede the virus from floating in, but they do massively reduce how far expelled aerosols fly.
        • native_samples 4y ago
          If that were true it'd be visible in the data but it's not. Masks did nothing yet a vocal minority forced everyone else to wear them and refused to accept the evidence it was pointless and harmful.
      • eric_cc 4y ago
        > With masks though people wearing masks didn't at all affect the people not wearing them. People didn't just choose to peacefully wear masks though. There was a large militant group that pushed for mandates to force everybody else to also wear masks.
        • travisporter 4y ago
          No people most certainly did. I live in an area where covid vaccine fears, ivermectin, all sorts of crazy stuff was routine convo but all businesses were okay with me wearing a mask. They rolled their eyes but accommodated me. the “militant” group was definitely not pro-mask. Also, it’s a facemask. Decent people would take a small hit to not get others sick. But it was more profitable to deny, sow doubt and stomp around screaming freedom.
• forum_ghost 4y ago
  >I wouldn’t be where I am if remote work was the norm why not? It's probably just as likely you wouldn't be where you are if your several pivotal points in life went only slightly different.
  • vicda 4y ago
    All of the pivotal points in my career came from serendipitous moments that happened with coworkers outside of my core team at the office/at lunch/at holiday parties. That kind of natural cross pollination is near dead when working fully remote.
    • spoils19 4y ago
      All of the pivotal points in my career came from delivering quality software, on time and under budget. That kind of work cannot happen with the constant distraction of in-office work.
      • mars009 4y ago
    • prawn 4y ago
      I don't work a typical job but I do operate in a space where in-person interactions can create opportunities. I think you can emulate a bit of that aspect by being proactive with incidental communications. Obviously nothing forceful, but just staying friendly with people - asking questions, offering help, showing interest, building general rapport.
      • forum_ghost 4y ago
        The same works in person too. You make your own “serendipity”. Some just win a small lottery at times, and don’t even realize it.
      • vicda 4y ago
        How do you build rapport with people outside of your job responsibilities? Randomly sending out "Hey, how's it going?" messages to everyone? Watercooler/lunch/coffee break social interactions are all but dead when working remotely.
• artdigital 4y ago
  Same. I am just not good with remote work. Slack (our org is massive) and staying up to date with so many things async is stressing, and I honestly miss having my coworkers around. As a single 20s guy, I had fun in the office and was able to create strong connections with my team. Now everything is just boring, dull and disconnected. I feel like a worker drone just going from task to task, trying to balance slack in the mix to not get left behind. There are other people in the company or my team, but I don't connect with them. They could equally be NPCs. Same as you, I am also very worried about not being able to advance in my career any further if things continue the way they do
  • salt-thrower 4y ago
    Same here. I have felt completely left behind and burnt out by the WFH shift. I simply don’t care enough to hustle and grind from home to achieve career advancement. Networking has to happen naturally in-person for me; everything on Zoom feels forced and fake. I truly believe a hybrid schedule is best. 5 days per week in the office is overkill, but 2-3 days a week would help me tremendously. I’m gearing my career towards finding that balance now.
    • a_square_peg 4y ago
      Ditto. Working remotely makes even a simple communication into another ordeal and a quick chat into a meeting scheduled for next week etc. I feel like much more energy and resource is spent just on communication when working from home, both at the personal level and for the organization.
  • tkiolp4 4y ago
    You can go back to the office… but what if your teammates don’t? You’ll be in the same situation.
    • paulcole 4y ago
      They go and get a job where everyone is in the office (and ideally everyone wants to be in the office). My order of preference is: • Everyone in-office because they want to be there • Everyone in-office and some want to be there • Everyone in-office and most don't want to be there • Hybrid where everyone picks what works best for them • 100% remote
• hooande 4y ago
  I wish there was a better middle ground. Your enjoyment of in office work and related career advancement seems to require others to work in a way that they don't feel is necessary or productive. If only part of the company decides to work from the office, you might not get the same benefit that you had before. You shouldn't have to work from home because others want to do so. Other people shouldn't have to work from the office because that's what's best for you. Ultimately I see this working itself out with people changing jobs, perhaps for a period of years, until things have sorted into a "work from where is best for you" equilibrium. That could be a chaotic and disruptive time for many people and businesses :(
• nhangen 4y ago
  Never thought I would agree, but recently started a new job in a fully remote company. I was super excited. I thought it would be a dream. Instead, I have found that it's basically impossible to stand out in the ways I have in the past, via charisma, camaraderie, being inquisitive, etc. Remote work has basically devolved aptitude into a series of scores & metrics. It feels like working at an Amazon factory. Slack is a nightmare to keep up with.
  • owaislone 4y ago
    I totally get you and have experienced this at my current and previous job but I had totally opposite experiences at three jobs before that. It highly depends on the culture. Going remote first is not simply allowing remote work and calling it a day. It takes a lot of time and effort to cultivate a good "remote culture".
  • paxys 4y ago
    On the other hand remote work is a godsend for people who do most of the work on the team but get skipped over for promotions because they lack "charisma" and don't participate in gossip/politics and don't spend hours after work every day at the bar with coworkers.
    • nokya 4y ago
      Very indeed. My hypothesis is that the shift to more WFH has not reduced opportunities for advancement at all but has drastically shifted from one population, who knew how to maximize output from office interactions, to a population that knows how to maximize output from more virtual settings. People who shine at the coffee machine, at business lunches, who are good at putting pressure on employees who arrive late at their desk, or know how to look efficient in front of a superior during in-presence meetings are completely clueless in how to operate virtual teams efficiently today. There are two possible responses to this: adapt or fight for the mythical "return to normal". I am actually quite happy that this shift occurred at my company. New managers we didn't expect to be in 2019 have risen from nowhere amongst our ranks and are driving their teams surprisingly well. They are showing great initiative in establishing new processes and finding tools to support their operations, their team morale is generally good, I sincerely believe they are making us better in the long term. Other managers, mostly late boomers I have to say it, are taking a huge hit to morale. We regularly receive complaints that we don't allow firing employees just because they don't want to come to the office. I actually had a senior manager telling me to f.off because I told him "you are a leader, it's your job to motivate her to come work with you at the office, not ours." I have recommended letting him go since... One thing is for sure: moving to virtual settings, even partially, is requiring new management skills. I am still thinking this over but I believe managers' self-esteem plays a big role in the transition to virtual settings: many old school managers tend to assume they are successfully managing as long as they can see their employees physically at work during office hours. Whoever comes earlier and stays later is automatically ranked a better employee, even assured promotion, and whoever comes to the office for a meeting is immediately perceived as a better employee than those who joined online. Many managers who don't feel they have physical power over their teams anymore are struggling to regain control. This approach doesn't work anymore in office settings, especially with qualified workforce. With WFH, there are people who start later, who disconnect earlier, who come back online after dinner, during weekends, who go on long lunches during work days or interrupt their morning for a 9.30am-10.30am workout. From what I see in our books, this doesn't affect our numbers negatively but stresses the hell out some of our managers. I am seeing a lot more flexibility in my employees than in my managers, which is somehow ironic! To conclude my point, I think the issue with adopting a more remote/hybrid approach in the company stems from a lack of self-confidence amongst entry-level and middle-level managers in their ability to use "modern" tools to both interact more efficiently with their teams and to acquire the data they need. Any manager who still struggles to share me his or her screen during a virtual session and can't refrain from complaining orally that "these tools suck" in 2022 has become a red flag to me.
• assttoasstmgr 4y ago
  > and I worry about my ability to advance. This is another hidden downside to remote work; the sycophants and ladder climbers (not accusing you of being one) didn't go away, they simply had to adapt to the environment and find new means of doing so. In my experience this entailed being invited to endless clearly-unnecessary-but-mandatory Zoom meetings, the value of which was at best questionable. Only to find out said meeting was really a scheme for management visibility, filmed before a live studio audience of senior engineers.
• MomoXenosaga 4y ago
  Just give people the choice. I wonder if this is an American thing where bosses are still seen as the authority figure? In my country a company is seen as a team effort. Treat your employees as adults not school children.
  • eric_cc 4y ago
    > In my country a company is seen as a team effort. What country?
• 0xRusty 4y ago
  Just wanted to throw another voice in the camp of disliking WFH and reassuring you you are not in the minority. We'll maybe we are now, but the tide will turn once promotions start going to those showing their face around the office. I wouldn't go back to remote working if you doubled my salary