8 ms·

Aerosol particle emission increases exponentially above moderate exercise

45 points by wallflower 4y ago

sometimeshuman 4y ago
My take away from the abstract is to work-out as early as possible assuming the gym is not 24hours: 1) Ensures that any surface or airborne pathogen generated the evening prior is likely dead. 2) Less people creating respiratory borne aerosols. 3) Intensity of exercise is probably lower, thereby spreading less aerosols, given most people do not have peak performance early morning. 4) Someone who is sick or is recovering from illness is unlikely to get to the gym early. 5) Perhaps skip the gym during peak flu and cold season. For decades I would get sick 3 to 4 times a year but now I haven't been sick in 28 months (personal best by 2x) since becoming a pandemic hermit. I wonder how many of my colds/flu's were contracted at the gym and have hesitated returning but miss this part of my life.
- sanedigital 4y ago
  You're probably reducing your life expectancy much more by skipping the gym (or publicly socializing, but that's a whole other discussion) than you would be from those 3-4 illnesses a year.
  - SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
    Not if they were finding alternative ways to exercise. Speaking as an ex power-lifter turned runner, I'm surprised at the number of people who believe they NEED a gym to exercise.
    - johnold 4y ago
      Seriously. Outdoors is free.
    - sanedigital 4y ago
      Resistance training and cardio are both necessary for a long healthy life. Neither alone is sufficient. Regardless, I hear what you’re saying, but that didn’t sound like what GP meant when they said they missed their gym life.
  - soVeryTired 4y ago
    Maybe I’m reading you wrong but are you suggesting that publicly socialising reduces life expectancy? What about the mental health benefits?
    - sanedigital 4y ago
      My comment wasn’t very clear, sorry. I actually meant the opposite: that by limiting socializing they’re harming their health.
- lispisok 4y ago
  I can counter you anecdote with one of my own. I go the gym a lot. I rarely get sick. I kept going to the gym when the state allowed it to be open during the pandemic and still never got sick. Telling people to skip the gym to prevent contracting the flu might be some of the worst health advice there is given heart disease is the number one cause of death. Severe covid correlates strongly with obesity too. There was a substantial jump in obesity rates during the pandemic from people sitting around inside. Personally I think gym's are overrated in spreading disease. Almost nobody goes to the gym when they are still feeling sick.
  - mecsred 4y ago
    I was fully with you up until the final couple sentences. Anyone who's been in a gym knows it's not a sterile place. Again anecdotally people I have met specifically from going to the gym would go while mildly sick 100%. Justified with some variation of "just power through". If you're healthy moderate exposure to pathogens can definitely boost your own immune system response. The impact of hosting those pathogens is one of the talking points COVID brought up that I think will be around for a long time.
- code51 4y ago
  > 4) Someone who is sick or is recovering from illness is unlikely to get to the gym early. Someone somewhere just said "Challenge accepted!"
MengerSponge 4y ago
I've started wearing an elastomeric respirator to the gym with n100 filter cartridges. It impedes breathing slightly, but that's fine with me: I don't do sprint or cardio work at my gym, and I can afford an extra 20 seconds of recovery time between sets. I got an MSA Advantage 900, which filters exhalation too. It's a lot sweatier, and if you aren't trying to comply with now-expired mask mandates, you could get a valved model. I haven't been professionally fit tested, but it passes the self-fit test. I wouldn't trust it in a TB ward, but to the gym or an airplane? It's great. If you have the influence, try to get your gym to set up UV air sanizizers and Corsi-Rosenthal boxes. If you're going to wear a mask, you should wear an effective one. Elastomeric>n95==FFP3>kf94==FFP2>kn95>>surgical>>cloth>>>gaiter And if you have a beard, the masks that fit more tightly will still retain 75%+ of their effectiveness.
- SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
  Plus, you get to channel big Bane energy.
  - MengerSponge 4y ago
    The gym, where I learned the truth about despair, as will you. There's a reason why this Smith machine is the worst hell on earth... Hope. Every man who has ventured here over the centuries has looked up to the light and imagined climbing to freedom. So easy... So simple...
- rhexs 4y ago
  - MengerSponge 4y ago
    Poe's law aside, not satire. I've avoided catching Covid even though I've lived in a very red state during a pandemic for years, and I'm all out of fucks to give. - If people need to take pictures of me and my quads for their inspiration board, I'm not going to stop them - I'm wearing an elastomeric respirator, so I deeply don't care if anyone takes a picture of me - People at my Y generally mind their own business
mrfusion 4y ago
We actually need germs go to train and exercise our immune systems. Look up the hygiene hypothesis.
- MengerSponge 4y ago
  https://xkcd.com/2557/ https://xkcd.com/2557/
  - samatman 4y ago
    Vaccination is available for a minuscule subset of infectious diseases. The immune system can't function against viruses it's never encountered, and the health of the immune system does, in fact, rely on exposure. No need to start licking doorknobs or whatever, but people who have isolated themselves in a comprehensive way from the common human biosphere should expect to get sick when they decide to rejoin humanity. This will get worse the longer it's put off. I'm nonjudgemental about the choices people are making to mitigate risk in their lives, but declining immune system health is a real risk of extended isolation which should be factored into the decision-making process.
    - SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
      It's not as though having a cold makes you more likely to defeat the monkeypox. They are separate diseases with separate responses. So yes, I'm going to have a cold the next time I get exposed to someone with a cold, but I was going to do that anyways.
      - hammock 4y ago
        You may be interested to learn there is a lot of evidence that suggests prior coronavirus and even rhinovirus infections boost the immune system against SARS-CoV-2
        SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
        That would have lead to an opposite number of deaths, though wouldn't it? If the idea is that isolation leads to us being able to be less able to fight COVID then the earliest results should have been the least dangerous. Now this is complicated by strains and vaccines, but as the initial year went on the death rate should have been increasing. I have no idea if this was the case or not, do you?
jerlam 4y ago
I walk past a big box gym and a specialty gym (climbing) regularly. The big box gym has had a lot less of the "return to normal" but the specialty gym is packed. Part of it may be due to economic changes, people less likely to forgo their specialty workout/activity/hobby but would skip their routine cardio sessions, people who splurged on their own home equipment, or those who tried cardio outside in 2020 and stuck to it. I wonder if we'll see another bump in gym bankruptcies or closures, after the initial one from the pandemic.
- mym1990 4y ago
  I kind of really like the trend towards specialty training spaces, and most other people who go to specialty gyms probably find more community within that specific niche. I personally just forewent a gym membership for a hybrid physical therapy/workout space, and I love it!
jareds 4y ago
I used to work out at a gym in the same building as my job. During lockdowns I switched jobs to a company that doesn't have a gym in their office and is mostly remote. I bought a power rack that got shoved in a dark corner of my basement and find I'm working out more regularly now than I ever did when I had to go to a gym during my workday.
- david38 4y ago
  Same. I bought a power rack, it’s right next to my home office. It took a while, but I use it every day now for 90 minutes.
ouid 4y ago
Particle counts increased what looks like quadratically with power/weight and volume increased linearly with power/weight. The number of virions in these particles was not measured. So I think we have an upper bound of cubic growth, and since the air velocity also increased linearly, information about particle size given air velocity would also be helpful. I imagine that particle size at least goes down with air velocity, so I think more realistically, the increase in number of airborne virions increases somewhere between linearly and quadraticly. >While aerosol particle emission is a major contributor to that risk, it is not the only one, as infection risk also depends on the concentration of the pathogen in the exhaled aerosol particles. So, ideally, others and we would have measured aerosol particle emission and the SARS-CoV-2 titer in aerosol condensates of infected, COVID-19 patients. However, we were unable to perform such an experiment safely. Kind of a bad study, in my opinion. It is not impossible to get in vitro estimates for these quantities and include them in your analysis.
- giantg2 4y ago
  "Particle counts increased what looks like quadratically with power/weight and volume increased linearly with power/weight. The number of virions in these particles was not measured. So I think we have an upper bound of cubic growth," I wonder if it increases the overall virus expelled. If it does, maybe vigorous exercise could reduce the disease impact if done early in the infection. Like with people who exercise strenuously on a regular basis and do so during the asymptomatic portion.
flint 4y ago
Can you output 2w/kg for more that 10 minutes? Do you know?
- klyrs 4y ago
  Me? No way in hell, today. A pro cyclist? Absolutely. https://datacranker.com/cycling-power-to-weight-ratio-calculator/ https://datacranker.com/cycling-power-to-weight-ratio-calcul...
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
lumost 4y ago
I'm curious what the long-term impact of increased disease prevention measures will be. It appears that post-covid(Fingers crossed) we are installing more air filters, using more surface sanitation procedures, staying home more when ill, and occasionally using masks/respirators in public spaces. Is the end result going to be a change in transmission vector for diseases? what other evolutionary adaptations are happening amongst common human pathogens?
angelbar 4y ago

45 points by wallflower 4y ago

My take away from the abstract is to work-out as early as possible assuming the gym is not 24hours: 1) Ensures that any surface or airborne pathogen generated the evening prior is likely dead. 2) Less people creating respiratory borne aerosols. 3) Intensity of exercise is probably lower, thereby spreading less aerosols, given most people do not have peak performance early morning. 4) Someone who is sick or is recovering from illness is unlikely to get to the gym early. 5) Perhaps skip the gym during peak flu and cold season. For decades I would get sick 3 to 4 times a year but now I haven't been sick in 28 months (personal best by 2x) since becoming a pandemic hermit. I wonder how many of my colds/flu's were contracted at the gym and have hesitated returning but miss this part of my life.

sanedigital 4y ago
You're probably reducing your life expectancy much more by skipping the gym (or publicly socializing, but that's a whole other discussion) than you would be from those 3-4 illnesses a year.
- SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
  Not if they were finding alternative ways to exercise. Speaking as an ex power-lifter turned runner, I'm surprised at the number of people who believe they NEED a gym to exercise.
  - johnold 4y ago
    Seriously. Outdoors is free.
  - sanedigital 4y ago
    Resistance training and cardio are both necessary for a long healthy life. Neither alone is sufficient. Regardless, I hear what you’re saying, but that didn’t sound like what GP meant when they said they missed their gym life.
- soVeryTired 4y ago
  Maybe I’m reading you wrong but are you suggesting that publicly socialising reduces life expectancy? What about the mental health benefits?
  - sanedigital 4y ago
    My comment wasn’t very clear, sorry. I actually meant the opposite: that by limiting socializing they’re harming their health.
lispisok 4y ago
I can counter you anecdote with one of my own. I go the gym a lot. I rarely get sick. I kept going to the gym when the state allowed it to be open during the pandemic and still never got sick. Telling people to skip the gym to prevent contracting the flu might be some of the worst health advice there is given heart disease is the number one cause of death. Severe covid correlates strongly with obesity too. There was a substantial jump in obesity rates during the pandemic from people sitting around inside. Personally I think gym's are overrated in spreading disease. Almost nobody goes to the gym when they are still feeling sick.
- mecsred 4y ago
  I was fully with you up until the final couple sentences. Anyone who's been in a gym knows it's not a sterile place. Again anecdotally people I have met specifically from going to the gym would go while mildly sick 100%. Justified with some variation of "just power through". If you're healthy moderate exposure to pathogens can definitely boost your own immune system response. The impact of hosting those pathogens is one of the talking points COVID brought up that I think will be around for a long time.
code51 4y ago
> 4) Someone who is sick or is recovering from illness is unlikely to get to the gym early. Someone somewhere just said "Challenge accepted!"

MengerSponge 4y ago

I've started wearing an elastomeric respirator to the gym with n100 filter cartridges. It impedes breathing slightly, but that's fine with me: I don't do sprint or cardio work at my gym, and I can afford an extra 20 seconds of recovery time between sets. I got an MSA Advantage 900, which filters exhalation too. It's a lot sweatier, and if you aren't trying to comply with now-expired mask mandates, you could get a valved model. I haven't been professionally fit tested, but it passes the self-fit test. I wouldn't trust it in a TB ward, but to the gym or an airplane? It's great. If you have the influence, try to get your gym to set up UV air sanizizers and Corsi-Rosenthal boxes. If you're going to wear a mask, you should wear an effective one. Elastomeric>n95==FFP3>kf94==FFP2>kn95>>surgical>>cloth>>>gaiter And if you have a beard, the masks that fit more tightly will still retain 75%+ of their effectiveness.

SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
Plus, you get to channel big Bane energy.
- MengerSponge 4y ago
  The gym, where I learned the truth about despair, as will you. There's a reason why this Smith machine is the worst hell on earth... Hope. Every man who has ventured here over the centuries has looked up to the light and imagined climbing to freedom. So easy... So simple...
rhexs 4y ago
- MengerSponge 4y ago
  Poe's law aside, not satire. I've avoided catching Covid even though I've lived in a very red state during a pandemic for years, and I'm all out of fucks to give. - If people need to take pictures of me and my quads for their inspiration board, I'm not going to stop them - I'm wearing an elastomeric respirator, so I deeply don't care if anyone takes a picture of me - People at my Y generally mind their own business

mrfusion 4y ago

We actually need germs go to train and exercise our immune systems. Look up the hygiene hypothesis.

MengerSponge 4y ago
https://xkcd.com/2557/ https://xkcd.com/2557/
- samatman 4y ago
  Vaccination is available for a minuscule subset of infectious diseases. The immune system can't function against viruses it's never encountered, and the health of the immune system does, in fact, rely on exposure. No need to start licking doorknobs or whatever, but people who have isolated themselves in a comprehensive way from the common human biosphere should expect to get sick when they decide to rejoin humanity. This will get worse the longer it's put off. I'm nonjudgemental about the choices people are making to mitigate risk in their lives, but declining immune system health is a real risk of extended isolation which should be factored into the decision-making process.
  - SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
    It's not as though having a cold makes you more likely to defeat the monkeypox. They are separate diseases with separate responses. So yes, I'm going to have a cold the next time I get exposed to someone with a cold, but I was going to do that anyways.
    - hammock 4y ago
      You may be interested to learn there is a lot of evidence that suggests prior coronavirus and even rhinovirus infections boost the immune system against SARS-CoV-2
      - SketchySeaBeast 4y ago
        That would have lead to an opposite number of deaths, though wouldn't it? If the idea is that isolation leads to us being able to be less able to fight COVID then the earliest results should have been the least dangerous. Now this is complicated by strains and vaccines, but as the initial year went on the death rate should have been increasing. I have no idea if this was the case or not, do you?

jerlam 4y ago

I walk past a big box gym and a specialty gym (climbing) regularly. The big box gym has had a lot less of the "return to normal" but the specialty gym is packed. Part of it may be due to economic changes, people less likely to forgo their specialty workout/activity/hobby but would skip their routine cardio sessions, people who splurged on their own home equipment, or those who tried cardio outside in 2020 and stuck to it. I wonder if we'll see another bump in gym bankruptcies or closures, after the initial one from the pandemic.

mym1990 4y ago
I kind of really like the trend towards specialty training spaces, and most other people who go to specialty gyms probably find more community within that specific niche. I personally just forewent a gym membership for a hybrid physical therapy/workout space, and I love it!

jareds 4y ago

I used to work out at a gym in the same building as my job. During lockdowns I switched jobs to a company that doesn't have a gym in their office and is mostly remote. I bought a power rack that got shoved in a dark corner of my basement and find I'm working out more regularly now than I ever did when I had to go to a gym during my workday.

david38 4y ago
Same. I bought a power rack, it’s right next to my home office. It took a while, but I use it every day now for 90 minutes.

ouid 4y ago

Particle counts increased what looks like quadratically with power/weight and volume increased linearly with power/weight. The number of virions in these particles was not measured. So I think we have an upper bound of cubic growth, and since the air velocity also increased linearly, information about particle size given air velocity would also be helpful. I imagine that particle size at least goes down with air velocity, so I think more realistically, the increase in number of airborne virions increases somewhere between linearly and quadraticly. >While aerosol particle emission is a major contributor to that risk, it is not the only one, as infection risk also depends on the concentration of the pathogen in the exhaled aerosol particles. So, ideally, others and we would have measured aerosol particle emission and the SARS-CoV-2 titer in aerosol condensates of infected, COVID-19 patients. However, we were unable to perform such an experiment safely. Kind of a bad study, in my opinion. It is not impossible to get in vitro estimates for these quantities and include them in your analysis.

giantg2 4y ago
"Particle counts increased what looks like quadratically with power/weight and volume increased linearly with power/weight. The number of virions in these particles was not measured. So I think we have an upper bound of cubic growth," I wonder if it increases the overall virus expelled. If it does, maybe vigorous exercise could reduce the disease impact if done early in the infection. Like with people who exercise strenuously on a regular basis and do so during the asymptomatic portion.

flint 4y ago

Can you output 2w/kg for more that 10 minutes? Do you know?

klyrs 4y ago
Me? No way in hell, today. A pro cyclist? Absolutely. https://datacranker.com/cycling-power-to-weight-ratio-calculator/ https://datacranker.com/cycling-power-to-weight-ratio-calcul...
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

lumost 4y ago

I'm curious what the long-term impact of increased disease prevention measures will be. It appears that post-covid(Fingers crossed) we are installing more air filters, using more surface sanitation procedures, staying home more when ill, and occasionally using masks/respirators in public spaces. Is the end result going to be a change in transmission vector for diseases? what other evolutionary adaptations are happening amongst common human pathogens?

angelbar 4y ago