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Cars were a mistake. Cities would be much better without them.
by SwetDrems 4y ago
Cars were a mistake. Cities would be much better without them.
- HeyLaughingBoy 4y agoMaybe cities were the mistake.
- imtringued 4y agoSuburban sprawl is financially bankrupt. It can't finance itself. It is like rural areas but rural areas are essential and deserve the subsidies.
- HonestOp001 4y agoAbsolutely not. Cars allowed people to access areas they would not be able to. Look at why sprawl occurred, it was not started by cars, it started with trains. The trolleys would allow for undeveloped land to be used, reducing rents that had been increased by demand. Then came the car. Instead of being dependent on the trolley to get you from place to place, you could allocate resources to get there. Economic activity boomed after that. There may be some difference on the implementation of automotive vehicles, but they are not a mistake.
- imtringued 4y agoSprawl is a symptom. You are fleeing from the city core because there are uncooperative individuals owning land and real estate. You cannot improve the city without their consent, so you flee and run away from the corrupt rent seekers.
- munk-a 4y agoIf cars had been kept as an additive to public transit then I might buy your position but a lot of public transit systems were specifically destroyed at the direction (and with subsidies from) car manufacturers. Trains and trolleys did allow for some suburban growth - but the sprawl didn't come into being until cars became the norm for transport... specifically, commuting by train and using cars for leisure could have been the world we live in, rather than this hellish landscape where cars are the norm for getting to the work or picking up groceries. This may differ from your world view but please just compare the west to east coast where most of the eastern cities were built first without cars in mind and only later expanded - vs. a lot of west coast cities that have always been car first. The difference is extremely stark.
- meragrin_ 4y ago> hellish landscape where cars are the norm for getting to the work or picking up groceries To each their own.
- BitwiseFool 4y agoI've never quite understood why the anti-car crowd is so prone to hyperbole with their criticism of the status quo. "Hellish Landscape", really?
- zeristor 4y agoA city made up of car parks.
- eredengrin 4y agoI might not use that hyperbole myself but if you've ever had to sit through LA traffic day in and day out it's really not that hard to imagine why people get upset about it. Yeah if you live in the middle of nowhere it's a different story.
- decafninja 4y agoDifferent strokes for different folks. To me, the "hellish landscape" is the NYC subway system (arguably the best in the US). While I live in NYC and not LA, I'm a frequent visitor to LA. I'd gladly sit through LA traffic over riding the NYC subway. Sitting in my own personal, clean, climate controlled space, listening to music I enjoy.
- eredengrin 4y agoI've never been to NYC but I never realized how much I would prefer a good public transit system until I visited Seoul. I probably wouldn't use a car much if at all if I lived there. I suspect NYC is still a pretty low bar for what public transit could be, best in the US isn't saying much when most cities have practically nothing to begin with.
- ahoy 4y agoTrains literally do not encourage sprawl. They encourage dense walkable towns built around train stations.
- foepys 4y agoIt will be interesting how the American suburbs will fare in the upcoming years. With interests rising and home buyers getting more careful, the Ponzi-esque scheme of buying a house in a suburb might collapse [1, 2]. American culture is partly unthinkable without cars because of planning and zoning failures made decades ago. Why don't have suburbs a lot of small super markets and other stores? Why does everybody need to drive miles and miles to get a gallon of milk? 1: https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2020/8/28/the-growth-ponzi-scheme-a-crash-course https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2020/8/28/the-growth-pon... 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IsMeKl-Sv0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IsMeKl-Sv0
- decafninja 4y agoWhat is the alternative? Live in the city in dense, tight, expensive housing? FWIW, many suburbs do have supermarkets and stores in their downtowns/mainstreets. I can walk...10 minutes or so to my local supermarket. But I choose not to do so because I can drive there and buy a week+'s worth of groceries and supplies in one go. I don't think most suburbanites hop in the car to get a single bottle of milk. As much as there are people that prefer living in cities, there are people that prefer living in the suburbs. A young twentysomething single me would have preferred living in downtown Manhattan and wouldn't have minded living in a 300 sqft studio, meeting friends, partying, partaking in cultural experiences that only a major city can offer. Thirtysomething married me finds that scenario unappealing. Having a SFH in a quiet suburban street with a backyard to BBQ in, a garden to tend, lazy weekends with no cultural activities whatsoever, and a car(!) to drive around in is what I want... short of being extremely wealthy enough to have the best of both worlds.
- foepys 4y agoWestern Europe doesn't have the problems of America's suburbia. You just don't see the solutions because you are trapped in the mindset that cars are ubiquitous and alternatives must therefore be bad. As I said, it will be interesting how well the American suburbs will be able to function. They function only because of heavily subsidized infrastructure and the poor parts of town are the ones paying. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Nw6qyyrTeI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Nw6qyyrTeI
- manicdee 4y agoWhat encouraged sprawl was R-1 zoning where it’s illegal to build apartment blocks with cafes and grocers in them.
- imtringued 4y agoA common theme in capitalism is that it is illegal to help yourself.
- x3iv130f 4y agoIt isn't a binary between 9,000 lb vehicles and 18 lb bicycles. There is a middle ground with low-weight, low-speed vehicles like 800 lb "golf carts" and 1800 lb Japanese micro-cars. Japanese micro-cars like the Honda n-box slash get enthusiastic reviews from motorheads and represent a realistic alternative.
- throwaway0a5e 4y agoThe intersection between the "cars bad" crowd and the "cars should be regulated in a multitude of specific ways" (which has the side effect of driving up the size and price of the minimum economically viable new car) crowd is absolutely maddening. If cognitive dissonance were a physical object I would bludgeon them with it. I would love a future where we can have cheap super-sub-compact EVs and small utility vehicles. But as long as these Karens get to hand wringing every time they see someone hauling lumber on the roof or they a family pile out of a 1991 Civic said future is but a fantasy.
- r00fus 4y agoBetter yet - just make gas super expensive and you get European style approach. Suddenly mass transit sounds a lot nicer when you can't get $2 gas anymore to subsidize a car that is listed as gallons per mile.
- kevin_thibedeau 4y agoKei cars don't have good crash performance. Even the North American Camry has extra structural reinforcement that the Japanese domestic doesn't because of laxer regulations.