13 ms·

I don't know why it isn't being mentioned. I am not in the Bay Area myself, but about half of my friends there have relocated in the last couple years. A bunch

I don't know why it isn't being mentioned. I am not in the Bay Area myself, but about half of my friends there have relocated in the last couple years. A bunch to Washington or Oregon, some to Texas, one to Nashville, and a few others to places mostly in the northeast. All of them cited cost of living as the primary reason ... but all also mentioned full time remote work is what finally made it possible to move. When you aren't chained to a physical location by your job, lots of things become possible.

ghaff 4y ago
Even if you like San Francisco on balance, it's hard not to ask yourself if you like it so much that you're OK with paying for some of the most expensive housing in the country when you don't have a reason you have to be there.
- thatfrenchguy 4y ago
  Not a lot of places in the USA where you can take transit, walk around and be close to the beach and the mountains while having a garden and some space :)
- xvedejas 4y ago
  This is not a strategy for everyone, but I definitely pay less in SF than I would in most cities because I know people willing to live with me long-term (and split rent) here. Generally it's easier in SF to find a roommate who is high-earning and willing to split an apartment or house compared to other cities, where similar people would just pay a little more to get their own place.
  - elif 4y ago
    in our city, my partner and I bought a house entirely for 5.5 years of what we were paying in rent. Now just 2 of our rent payments cover annual tax and insurance. any locally optimized strategy within the overall context of renting is still a failing proposition imo.
  - wctawcta 4y ago
    Splitting rent among roommates is not specific to San Francisco, it's common to cities with expensive housing. LA, Miami, NYC, San Diego, etc. all have high proportions of adults living with roommates (https://porch.com/advice/cities-whose-residents-likely-live-roommates https://porch.com/advice/cities-whose-residents-likely-live-...). Having roommates certainly helps save money, but it remains true that you and your roommates are paying for some of the most expensive housing in the country.
  - mjmahone17 4y ago
    You (and those like you) have informally recreated boarding houses. It’s a shame that Single Room Occupancy is basically illegal to build in any major US city: most cities require building “single family units” that must have their own bathroom(s), kitchen and bedroom(s). It would be nice if people who are OK sharing common spaces were able to have housing built specifically with them in mind.
    - smsm42 4y ago
      I can probably get why it was banned (if abused, it can be horrible) but it is extremely common way of living, especially for young people without families in expensive places - so one would think the government would stop pretending it's not happening at some point...
- themitigating 4y ago
  For cities in general there's much more to do compared to low density areas. Restaurants, entertainment, other people. All of this within a decent traveling distance.
  - ghaff 4y ago
    Sure. Cities lend themselves to different sorts of activities and have different pros and cons than do rural areas. Personally I get all the city stuff I want in short visits. I can see a play in a large city that is an hour drive away without living there.
    - themitigating 4y ago
      That's fine but the parent implied it was objectively worse than living elsewhere
      - ghaff 4y ago
        I think the parent was me :-) I actually like SF but some of the most expensive housing in the country is a high bar if you don't either have enough money that it's a non-issue or have to live there for employment or other reasons. There are many cities with solid city activities that aren't SF.
        themitigating 4y ago
        I'm aware there are options. It's subjective
  - DragonStrength 4y ago
    Sure, but most who leave SF will choose a smaller metro area, not a rural area. What I have found in my time in the Bay Area is a general ignorance of how many smaller metro areas have developed more vibrant urban centers over the past 10 years. The people from these cities who went home for the first time in a decade are finding surprisingly livable metros waiting for them, closer to aging family.
- 0000011111 4y ago
  It sounds like you are saying that if you move from SF to another city cost of living expenses will drop dramatically.
  - ghaff 4y ago
    Well they can. If I move to another popular place like Manhattan they probably won't go down much. But it's reasonable to ask, if you don't have a work-related reason to live in a place, whether it's good value based on your priorities. The answer may be "Yes!" for SF for some people. But it may also be "No."
  - alanh 4y ago
    Yes, this is famously true, with SF's cost of living (especially but not only housing) being some of the very highest in the nation. Getting out of California helps even more.
- legerdemain 4y ago
  Like it or not, SF has the most vibrant tech community than anywhere else. I live an hour away, and I make the painful, tedious drive up in rush-hour traffic at least once a week to meet up with some group or another in person. The alternative is the dreary, sleep-inducing vendor teleconferences that double as "meetups" on the Peninsula. I'm strongly considering ditching the Peninsula and moving to SF for better networking and more diverse hangouts and career opportunities.
  - ghaff 4y ago
    This is both the good and bad of living in area like the Bay. I'd find the idea of going in an evening a week with a tedious drive to do work-related stuff tedious at best.
    - legerdemain 4y ago
      The alternative is moving to the city, which is what I am strongly considering.
gamechangr 4y ago
I second this My friends seem to be moving to Washington, Florida, and other parts of California (away from main cities)
- toomuchtodo 4y ago
  I see far more California vehicle tags in Central Florida than I would've expected.
  - lotsofpulp 4y ago
    That is probably more a function of population. I regularly see Florida plates in Washington.
    - davio 4y ago
      I live in Missouri and people who have lived on my street for decades have Florida plates. They must have property there and claim it as residency for tax purposes
      - legerdemain 4y ago
        A ton of license plates with oranges on them here in the Bay Area, too.
  - jdhn 4y ago
    When you look in the cars, are they older people? Where I live (western Florida), it's generally older people and not the demographic that you'd expect to find on this site.
    - CSMastermind 4y ago
      I just moved NYC to Florida and I've been shocked how many other people have done the same. Florida is doing a relatively good job of attracting high end tech talent as far as I can tell. Texas is the other place I hear mentioned a lot.
PragmaticPulp 4y ago
I actually know several people who used this as an opportunity to move into the Bay Area. The sudden drop in rents made it more attractive and they jumped. They both work in industries where face to face communication is a competitive advantage. It’s easy to forget that not every job is naturally compatible with remote work like it is for those of us who type on computers all day.
- iancmceachern 4y ago
  I'm in this boat. We moved apartments in SF during the pandemic and we now live in an amazing neighborhood, amazing building, for 40% less then we were paying for a below average apartment before. It's not one or the other (moving in or out), it's about getting what you (the individual) wants, and being smart about timing and using world events to your advantage, not disadvantage. Some people wanted to move away from SF, some wanted to move in. It was an opportunity for either.
  - sheepybloke 4y ago
    Where have you been seeing the rent drop in SF? I'm in the south bay and have been interested in moving to SF now that I'm going remote, since I want a bit more active nightlife. Now that I'm remote, I don't have to stay in south bay.
    - tshaddox 4y ago
      I haven’t seen these supposed rent drops in SF or the Bay Area either. My lease in the peninsula is up next month and the rent is increasing about 8%, and that’s aligned with the prices I’m seeing elsewhere for comparable apartments.
      - arcticbull 4y ago
        Things are rising a bit now but if you jumped into a new place in like 2021, the discounts were pretty absurd.
      - 4y ago
nradov 4y ago
I live in the south Bay Area. The local public school district has been steadily losing enrollment due to the high cost of living. The district administrator I talked with said that based on student records transfer requests, some families have moved further east and south into the sprawling exurbs, and many others moved to Texas.
- DragonStrength 4y ago
  I entered 2020 thinking I'd settle in the Bay Area, but stats like these accelerating over the past couple year make me feel fortunate I sat it out.
gwbushey 4y ago
FollowingTheDao 4y ago
This is so sad to me. The fracturing of the community because of capitalism. All these people that are moving away from their friends they are shortsighted. When they really need people no one’s going to be around them. Sad.
- wellthatsawrap1 4y ago
  People are moving because of gross mismanagement by democrats.
  - urthor 4y ago
    Keep in mind that the politicians in charge of this... are extremely local. They are Democrats, but not the kind you'd think. It's a very small world in local politics.
  - FollowingTheDao 4y ago
    Could be, what's your point? You think the Democrats are anti-capitalists?
bamboozled 4y ago
Funny thing is, I recently went back to a few cities which have started to recover and the vibe was so fun I thought how much fun it would be live in one again. So much energy, good shops restaurants and amenities ! People didn’t throw cities away, they threw away cities in lockdown. I think a lot of people will rediscover city life and ultimately end up back there for some reason or another. Cities grew organically for different reasons, we kept them because they serve a purpose. Before the pandemic it wast like we all hated living in cities.
godot 4y ago
I agree with you and GP; I'm just pointing out that the article does mention it as a primary reason: > Experts have said the Bay Area’s high housing costs and remote work policies, particularly for the tech industry, fueled out-migration during the pandemic, as residents sought cheaper homes and more space. Almost all California coastal cities lost population, while the more affordable Central Valley and Inland Empire saw gains. My observation from the discussion here is that there are a lot of people here still raving about city life (especially as pandemic tapers down) and how people are moving back in, etc. I think it's suffice to say everyone has a different living preference, and remote work enabled people who otherwise didn't want to live here, to move away, which in turn also opened up some spaces for people who wanted to live here but found it too expensive, to move in. The real question is probably how the numbers work out. Are there a lot more people who wanted to move away and are doing so now? If so, home prices and rents would drop. If the opposite is true or the numbers are about even, then prices wouldn't drop or would drop less.

ghaff 4y ago

Even if you like San Francisco on balance, it's hard not to ask yourself if you like it so much that you're OK with paying for some of the most expensive housing in the country when you don't have a reason you have to be there.

thatfrenchguy 4y ago
Not a lot of places in the USA where you can take transit, walk around and be close to the beach and the mountains while having a garden and some space :)
xvedejas 4y ago
This is not a strategy for everyone, but I definitely pay less in SF than I would in most cities because I know people willing to live with me long-term (and split rent) here. Generally it's easier in SF to find a roommate who is high-earning and willing to split an apartment or house compared to other cities, where similar people would just pay a little more to get their own place.
- elif 4y ago
  in our city, my partner and I bought a house entirely for 5.5 years of what we were paying in rent. Now just 2 of our rent payments cover annual tax and insurance. any locally optimized strategy within the overall context of renting is still a failing proposition imo.
- wctawcta 4y ago
  Splitting rent among roommates is not specific to San Francisco, it's common to cities with expensive housing. LA, Miami, NYC, San Diego, etc. all have high proportions of adults living with roommates (https://porch.com/advice/cities-whose-residents-likely-live-roommates https://porch.com/advice/cities-whose-residents-likely-live-...). Having roommates certainly helps save money, but it remains true that you and your roommates are paying for some of the most expensive housing in the country.
- mjmahone17 4y ago
  You (and those like you) have informally recreated boarding houses. It’s a shame that Single Room Occupancy is basically illegal to build in any major US city: most cities require building “single family units” that must have their own bathroom(s), kitchen and bedroom(s). It would be nice if people who are OK sharing common spaces were able to have housing built specifically with them in mind.
  - smsm42 4y ago
    I can probably get why it was banned (if abused, it can be horrible) but it is extremely common way of living, especially for young people without families in expensive places - so one would think the government would stop pretending it's not happening at some point...
themitigating 4y ago
For cities in general there's much more to do compared to low density areas. Restaurants, entertainment, other people. All of this within a decent traveling distance.
- ghaff 4y ago
  Sure. Cities lend themselves to different sorts of activities and have different pros and cons than do rural areas. Personally I get all the city stuff I want in short visits. I can see a play in a large city that is an hour drive away without living there.
  - themitigating 4y ago
    That's fine but the parent implied it was objectively worse than living elsewhere
    - ghaff 4y ago
      I think the parent was me :-) I actually like SF but some of the most expensive housing in the country is a high bar if you don't either have enough money that it's a non-issue or have to live there for employment or other reasons. There are many cities with solid city activities that aren't SF.
      - themitigating 4y ago
        I'm aware there are options. It's subjective
- DragonStrength 4y ago
  Sure, but most who leave SF will choose a smaller metro area, not a rural area. What I have found in my time in the Bay Area is a general ignorance of how many smaller metro areas have developed more vibrant urban centers over the past 10 years. The people from these cities who went home for the first time in a decade are finding surprisingly livable metros waiting for them, closer to aging family.
0000011111 4y ago
It sounds like you are saying that if you move from SF to another city cost of living expenses will drop dramatically.
- ghaff 4y ago
  Well they can. If I move to another popular place like Manhattan they probably won't go down much. But it's reasonable to ask, if you don't have a work-related reason to live in a place, whether it's good value based on your priorities. The answer may be "Yes!" for SF for some people. But it may also be "No."
- alanh 4y ago
  Yes, this is famously true, with SF's cost of living (especially but not only housing) being some of the very highest in the nation. Getting out of California helps even more.
legerdemain 4y ago
Like it or not, SF has the most vibrant tech community than anywhere else. I live an hour away, and I make the painful, tedious drive up in rush-hour traffic at least once a week to meet up with some group or another in person. The alternative is the dreary, sleep-inducing vendor teleconferences that double as "meetups" on the Peninsula. I'm strongly considering ditching the Peninsula and moving to SF for better networking and more diverse hangouts and career opportunities.
- ghaff 4y ago
  This is both the good and bad of living in area like the Bay. I'd find the idea of going in an evening a week with a tedious drive to do work-related stuff tedious at best.
  - legerdemain 4y ago
    The alternative is moving to the city, which is what I am strongly considering.

gamechangr 4y ago

I second this My friends seem to be moving to Washington, Florida, and other parts of California (away from main cities)

toomuchtodo 4y ago
I see far more California vehicle tags in Central Florida than I would've expected.
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
  That is probably more a function of population. I regularly see Florida plates in Washington.
  - davio 4y ago
    I live in Missouri and people who have lived on my street for decades have Florida plates. They must have property there and claim it as residency for tax purposes
    - legerdemain 4y ago
      A ton of license plates with oranges on them here in the Bay Area, too.
- jdhn 4y ago
  When you look in the cars, are they older people? Where I live (western Florida), it's generally older people and not the demographic that you'd expect to find on this site.
  - CSMastermind 4y ago
    I just moved NYC to Florida and I've been shocked how many other people have done the same. Florida is doing a relatively good job of attracting high end tech talent as far as I can tell. Texas is the other place I hear mentioned a lot.

PragmaticPulp 4y ago

I actually know several people who used this as an opportunity to move into the Bay Area. The sudden drop in rents made it more attractive and they jumped. They both work in industries where face to face communication is a competitive advantage. It’s easy to forget that not every job is naturally compatible with remote work like it is for those of us who type on computers all day.

iancmceachern 4y ago
I'm in this boat. We moved apartments in SF during the pandemic and we now live in an amazing neighborhood, amazing building, for 40% less then we were paying for a below average apartment before. It's not one or the other (moving in or out), it's about getting what you (the individual) wants, and being smart about timing and using world events to your advantage, not disadvantage. Some people wanted to move away from SF, some wanted to move in. It was an opportunity for either.
- sheepybloke 4y ago
  Where have you been seeing the rent drop in SF? I'm in the south bay and have been interested in moving to SF now that I'm going remote, since I want a bit more active nightlife. Now that I'm remote, I don't have to stay in south bay.
  - tshaddox 4y ago
    I haven’t seen these supposed rent drops in SF or the Bay Area either. My lease in the peninsula is up next month and the rent is increasing about 8%, and that’s aligned with the prices I’m seeing elsewhere for comparable apartments.
    - arcticbull 4y ago
      Things are rising a bit now but if you jumped into a new place in like 2021, the discounts were pretty absurd.
    - 4y ago

nradov 4y ago

I live in the south Bay Area. The local public school district has been steadily losing enrollment due to the high cost of living. The district administrator I talked with said that based on student records transfer requests, some families have moved further east and south into the sprawling exurbs, and many others moved to Texas.

DragonStrength 4y ago
I entered 2020 thinking I'd settle in the Bay Area, but stats like these accelerating over the past couple year make me feel fortunate I sat it out.

gwbushey 4y ago

FollowingTheDao 4y ago

This is so sad to me. The fracturing of the community because of capitalism. All these people that are moving away from their friends they are shortsighted. When they really need people no one’s going to be around them. Sad.

wellthatsawrap1 4y ago
People are moving because of gross mismanagement by democrats.
- urthor 4y ago
  Keep in mind that the politicians in charge of this... are extremely local. They are Democrats, but not the kind you'd think. It's a very small world in local politics.
- FollowingTheDao 4y ago
  Could be, what's your point? You think the Democrats are anti-capitalists?

bamboozled 4y ago

Funny thing is, I recently went back to a few cities which have started to recover and the vibe was so fun I thought how much fun it would be live in one again. So much energy, good shops restaurants and amenities ! People didn’t throw cities away, they threw away cities in lockdown. I think a lot of people will rediscover city life and ultimately end up back there for some reason or another. Cities grew organically for different reasons, we kept them because they serve a purpose. Before the pandemic it wast like we all hated living in cities.

godot 4y ago

I agree with you and GP; I'm just pointing out that the article does mention it as a primary reason: > Experts have said the Bay Area’s high housing costs and remote work policies, particularly for the tech industry, fueled out-migration during the pandemic, as residents sought cheaper homes and more space. Almost all California coastal cities lost population, while the more affordable Central Valley and Inland Empire saw gains. My observation from the discussion here is that there are a lot of people here still raving about city life (especially as pandemic tapers down) and how people are moving back in, etc. I think it's suffice to say everyone has a different living preference, and remote work enabled people who otherwise didn't want to live here, to move away, which in turn also opened up some spaces for people who wanted to live here but found it too expensive, to move in. The real question is probably how the numbers work out. Are there a lot more people who wanted to move away and are doing so now? If so, home prices and rents would drop. If the opposite is true or the numbers are about even, then prices wouldn't drop or would drop less.