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Nest - The Learning Thermostat
- bprater 15y agoYes, please, more of these kinds of innovative products! Edit: Ah, created by an ex-Apple guy behind iPod and iPhone. No wonder it looks so damn slick. TC link: http://techcrunch.com/2011/10/24/ipod-godfather-tony-fadell-finally-reveals-his-new-product-a-thermostat-no-really/ http://techcrunch.com/2011/10/24/ipod-godfather-tony-fadell-...
- jrockway 15y agoDear people trying to sell me stuff: Please put something on your website that I can read. I do not want to watch a video, and that's all you have, so now I will never learn about your product.
- nodata 15y agoand if you must have a video, then please at least provide subtitles that are written in non-computer translated English.
- div 15y agoThis page should give you the gist: http://www.nest.com/living-with-nest/ http://www.nest.com/living-with-nest/ just scroll down.
- maaku 15y agoThat should have been the landing page...
- Tichy 15y agoNo kidding. I wonder if all those video only sites are the result of A/B tests? Then we are doomed...
- wickedchicken 15y agoThis also applies to programming screencasts and slides which are becoming more and more prevalent. I guess it works for some people but when I look at code I like to skim and use ctrl-F...
- electrichead 15y agoIn this case it might be justified. The guy is trying to convince you to buy their design, really. How would they entice you into buying a thermostat with words? It would be really difficult.
- joelthelion 15y agoAlso, when I do watch the video, at least give me a hint of how your product works and what it does. Don't bullshit me with things like "XXX never stops learning" or "XXX saves energy" during the whole video.
- rapind 15y agoDear people trying to sell me stuff: Please don't put a ream of text on your landing page that I have to read in order to learn about your product. I'm a visual person, and the web has not been a text-only medium for quite some time now. Something like a video, relevant pictures, and big bold text will do just fine thanks. I'm not trying to play devil's advocate here. This is actually what I prefer, and I think they did a good job.
- div 15y agoCurious about how many other cool projects / companies can come out of that line of thought: "Here's a plain everyday thing that everyone wants to ignore, let's make it a cherished item"
- nhebb 15y agoA toilet with a built-in urinalysis system.
- palish 15y agoThe Learning Toilet.
- Maakuth 15y agoTakes shit from no one?
- Elepsis 15y agoYou laugh, but TOTO is a hugely successful corporation that's spent millions on toilet R&D. If this bathroom doesn't fall into "object of day to day use made into a cherished item" I don't know what does: http://www.totousa.com/Neorest/NeorestSuite.aspx http://www.totousa.com/Neorest/NeorestSuite.aspx
- wgx 15y agoSwiss rival Geberit also make a badass robot toilet [1], and they invest huge amounts in everything from software to water-flow acoustics in the home. [1] http://www.geberit.co.uk/web/appl/uk/wcmsuk.nsf/pages/prod-aqua-line-8000-1 http://www.geberit.co.uk/web/appl/uk/wcmsuk.nsf/pages/prod-a...
- bfe 15y agoI remember predictions written in the 1990's of toilets that would automatically provide early screening for cancer. How much of their millions in R&D goes toward that?
- mturmon 15y ago
- seanos 15y agoSeems like a solution in search of a problem.
- Maakuth 15y agoWell, probably most of us don't see their utility bills as a problem per se but wouldn't mind 50% reduction. And Nest claims to deliver that. Certainly that claim is to be taken with a grain of salt but I don't think that it's a bad idea. EDIT: No they don't actually claim that, my bad.
- batterseapower 15y agoDo they actually claim that? Their page claims that 50% of household energy usage is governed by the thermostat, but they are very careful to avoid any specific claims about how much Nest would reduce this usage.
- seanos 15y agoAssuming the learning algorithm is perfect and always gives the desired temperature, then a saving of 50% means that your desired temperature pattern is 50% cheaper than the temperature pattern you would program with a regular thermostat. That could be true, or it could even be more expensive. Also, it might be annoying to have a thermostat trying to second guess what temperature you want through a "learning" algorithm, rather than the deterministic temperature you have programmed or adjusted manually.
- jayfuerstenberg 15y agoI watched the video and was impressed by how well designed it is. If it operates as demoed it could save a great deal of electricity. Also I wouldn't be surprised if, like the iPod, it didn't come with a manual because it's so easy to use.
- eps 15y agoThermostat managed through a hosted web service? I'm sorry but this is idiotic. Looks neat though.
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- earthboundkid 15y agoHard to say. This is the sort of thing people have been talking about forever ("smart homes"), but maybe the timing is finally right. Quick, does anyone use their iPad to "store recipes"?
- egypturnash 15y agoFuck yeah. It's called "googling for a recipe with it". I do this regularly.
- jrnkntl 15y agoWhy, why US only? Please tell me, it can't be because everything on this device is hard-coded for Fahrenheit.
- madflo 15y agoI would not worry too much about that. I think that they will be able to handle the Fahrenheit/Celsius conversion.
- tomelders 15y agoIt could have something to do with power supply. Different countries have different mains voltages. I think it's a lot higher here in the Britain than in the US, which could fry a device like this perhaps. Or perhaps not. I'm just speculating.
- joezydeco 15y agoThe control wiring for thermostats in the US is almost a common standard (RH/RC/W/Y/G) with 24 VDC. What is it in the UK?
- synx508 15y agoUsually two wires, often AC mains voltage Live and Load but some newer systems use low voltage. My own house has a thermostat that wirelessly communicates with a receiver near the gas combination boiler (water heating for hot water and radiators). The receiver simply closes an electrical contact to signal heating demand.
- zhyder 15y agoLooks nifty. Some feature requests: 1. Should get feedback for actual energy consumption from the meter. 2. Should allow installation of extra sensors that are wirelessly connected to the main unit, in case the main unit is far from the couch/bed.
- ojilles 15y agoFor 2. this is where the iphone/mobile/tablet apps come in I guess. I was thinking it would be great to have an extra sensor or two that would help detecting the auto away.
- Tichy 15y agoCould this have an API? Thinking about it, some neat things could be done. For example, might it be possible to infer from electricity use if somebody is home or not? Also all sorts of fancy remote control options could emerge (Twitter is a must :-)
- thomasjoulin 15y agoTheir iPhone app should have geofencing (if it doesn't yet)
- bteitelb 15y agoPure genius! Just one thing, anyone upgrading from an old mercury switch thermostat will be left with a mercury waste disposal problem. Properly disposing of these can be a real hassle and some not-so-environmentally responsible customers are likely to just chuck them in the trash. Nest could raise the bar of their environmental responsibility another notch by including a postage-paid mailer and some bubble wrap to return your old thermostat to them for proper disposal.
- dolbz 15y agoI hope there's an override for auto-away. Imagine going away over Christmas and your pipes freeze because there has been no heating at all... Not a problem in California where this has been developed but a realistic problem in much of the world.
- stereo 15y agoI suppose it simply keeps the temperature above freezing even when you're away, like most thermostats
- _delirium 15y agoThat's not sufficient for many home designs, though; you may need to keep the interior temperature into the 40s or 50s to keep the pipes in the wall above freezing, depending on the outside temperature and your house design. One reason the default "away" temperature for many thermostats is actually pretty high, like 55 or 60.
- mturmon 15y agoTrue, and just "learning" your regular day-to-day habits would not necessarily inform the system about an absolute lower bound on temperature. I think the thermostat control problem is harder than I might have given it credit for. Any time you have to learn in a nonstationary environment (http://mathworld.wolfram.com/NonstationaryTimeSeries.html http://mathworld.wolfram.com/NonstationaryTimeSeries.html), nasty surprises can happen. The future may not look like the past.
- harshaw 15y agoYeah, there are some counter-intuitive things you need to think about with baseboard heat and very cold temperatures in New England. Normally it is just fine and dandy to let your fancy thermostat drop the temps to the high 50s at night except when it is 10 degrees outside - in that case you want to turn up the temperature so you don't freeze your pipes :) Sadly I speak from experience.
- Corrado 15y ago
- delinka 15y agoAs long as 'comfort' includes monitoring humidity and adjusting temperature accordingly, I'm in. Did anyone notice if Nest does this?
- adolph 15y agoYep, at a minimum it claims to have a humidity meter.
- asmithmd1 15y agoCompare this to the WiFi thermostat that I previously thought was cool: http://www.radiothermostat.com/filtrete/ http://www.radiothermostat.com/filtrete/ In addition to being a touch screen it has hard buttons labeled: PROG, MENU, MODE, FAN, and SAVE ENERGY It is a total disaster. When I went away for vacation this summer I wanted to turn off the daily program and hold at a max of 85. Instead I put it into winter hold mode and it maintained a chilly 62 for the entire week I was away. The WiFi link failed the first day I was away for some reason and the iPhone app happily reported the last temperature it had received as current so I had no hint there was any trouble.
- WalterBright 15y agoAny ui with a "mode" button is inevitably a disaster.
- jarek 15y agoMeet my alarm clock, 12 years and going strong. Perhaps I should upgrade to something with a touchscreen and wifi.
- WalterBright 15y agoI've thrown away many watches and clocks with 'mode' buttons after losing its instruction manual.
- jarek 15y agoI'm pretty sure my alarm clock's manual is on another continent. Then again, it doesn't take me a manual to figure out the "mode" button cycles between showing seconds, day of the week, time in both current and configured secondary time zone, and time and date in secondary time zone. I'm sure it could be made much more user friendly, material efficient, durable, and affordable with a touchscreen.
- simcop2387 15y agoI've had that particular problem with an old thermostat before. No wifi or anything, but when the batteries would run out, it would get stuck into AC mode, no matter the previous settings. Getting back from vacation was like a meat locker. It seems weird that the "failure" mode of these things seems to be make the plants think it's winter.
- brk 15y agoThis is interesting. I've been involved in home automation for about 15 years now, and HVAC controls are one of the top things to control in most systens. Occupancy sensing is also extremely difficult to do passively in any kind of reliable scenario, especially when your occupancy sensor is limited to a single location in the house. I've frequently seen two broad categories around regulating HVAC systems: 1) People keep a fairly regular schedule, and a standard 7-day programmable thermostat works sufficiently. 2) People keep a very non-regular schedule, and a standard programmable thermostat doesn't work, nor is there any inferable pattern to their home/away schedule. In case #2, it is usually more beneficial to get home/away status from something with a more direct output eg: a burglar alarm system, vehicle presence detectors in the garage (photobeams), status of lights, etc. I'll be very curious to see what the real-world reactions are to the Nest thermostat. If they can come up with some truly creative solutions it could be a really cool device.
- _delirium 15y agoFrom what's on the website it looks like they're trying to learn largely from user feedback of the "I wanted it cooler/hotter" variety. Agree that this will be a problem in case #2, without good occupancy sensing, because the prediction problem is inherently impossible to do well with only time-of-day-and-week if there isn't much regularity. I would guess the real target audience is people who fall into #1 but never get around to programming their thermostat, and maybe don't even have an accurate self-assessment of their home/away or sleep/wake patterns. In particularly warm or cold climates this might also include people who make wrong guesses about latency, e.g. how early before they return the heater needs to kick on for it to be comfortable by the time they get home. I could see it being useful in that case: there's a regular enough pattern to infer a reliable heating/cooling schedule, but the person doesn't want to, or isn't able to manually program that pattern.
- icefox 15y agoOn the website "Activity sensors Nest's activity sensors have a 150° wide-angle view so Nest knows when to set itself to Auto-Away." At $249 though it needs to make some sort of sell that I can recoup more than those costs.
- deepGem 15y agoThis is way too cool. Wonder if the device can actually detect the number of people in the room and adjust the temperature for that room accordingly. Not sure how this will work in age old central heating systems which contain one thermostat for a 10,000 sq ft building.
- coob 15y agoI don't care for the 'learning' aspect, although I'm sure it's great. My boiler has 19 buttons and 3 dials, I just don't have the time to understand it. This I understand.
- csomar 15y agoSome readers complained about the content of the website, I think they are missing the point. Most people aren't HN minded, they are not really into how Nest learn about your Energy needs. They just want simple and short content that explain in basic words. Nice looking design will give them confidence that this thing works really well. The Website and the product are very well designed, and this is something that is not quite common in such products. It's really well designed. This page (http://www.nest.com/living-with-nest/index.html http://www.nest.com/living-with-nest/index.html) explain in simple and basic sentences how the device will work out for you. Pretty simple, yet convincing. Yes, it's missing the hacker part. But I doubt that people are interested in that. I actually wish that more businesses invest in such designs.
- joezydeco 15y agoI'm impressed that Nest fixes and repaints the wall when you remove your old, large rectangular thermostat.
- pivo 15y agoI wondered about that too, but I see that it does come with a bracket that covers the wall if you need it.
- joezydeco 15y agoThat plate looks way too small and square to cover up the holes left by most rectangular thermostats. Look at 0:12 in the intro video, you can see the mounting holes for the "old" device. Interesting that the holes are painted white and have no screws in them.
- brador 15y agoI'm guessing this will have premium pricing, in which case, are the people who care about shaving a few $100 off their energy bill going to have the forsight, disposable income and knowledge of installation to make the purchase? Cool looking product, but too many barriers to purchase for my liking.
- iqster 15y agoPreorder price is 250. About 100 bucks more for professional installation. 25 extra for each additional terminal. It doesn't seem too bad ... I was expecting 500 after watching the video. My biggest concern is installation. I live in a rental, so I will have to uninstall the Nest with me when I leave. They have a nifty video plus compatibility checking app. Will try it when I get home tonight.
- brador 15y agoI did not see the price. Looking at it now, I'd say it seems nice in relation to the iPhone price point, but remember what this is. It's just a nicer looking thermostat. The learning functionality is next to useless for most as they're in and out during the day/evening, so it needs constant changing just like a regular thermostat regardless. Effectively, the patterns can't be learnt. My thermostat is beside my front door. I enter my home, I set it, then again before bed and in the morning again. There's not much to it and I wouldn't cede control for $250+$100. $50, yeah. Maybe even $100 for a cool looking, easy to install device. But not $250.
- iqster 15y agoSure ... I don't think this will be useful for everyone. I've wanted a product like this ever since I went for a 2 week vacation in the middle of winter with the heaters on. I actually had a thermostat at that time but it was too stupid-complicated. The ability to control the heating/cooling system wirelessly, and a UI that doesn't suck are the main selling features for me. Regarding learning, I don't know if it will work or not. I am also skeptical of their claims. In fact, my worry is that the learning system can't be disabled, and it will start to do stupid things! Then again, it might work ... we'll find out soon :)
- adolph 15y agoI can't tell from the site if they have done away with the whole cool/heat switch but it seems like they have, which is awesome.
- brk 15y agoIt is, if they can truly intelligently control the modes. In much of the US, we are in that time of year where it can be cold in the morning and hot in the afternoon. A common thermostat on full auto mode will be running the heat in the morning and the A/C in the afternoon. Most people opt to set their thermostat for one mode or the other, usually forgoing the A/C in the afternoon, knowing that it will soon cool back down naturally. Full HVAC control is one of those things that is really hard to get right with just a mostly passive device like this.
- brucehart 15y agoI noticed that the Nest asks you for your zip code. Maybe it uses the Wi-Fi connection to pull weather information so it can make adjustments like this?
- alirov 15y agoYou're right, it does check the weather through the Wi-Fi connection: "Nest uses its Wi-Fi connection to keep an eye on current weather conditions and forecasts so it can understand how the outside temperature affects your energy use."
- mrspandex 15y agoThere's a section in there that talks about switching it from heat to cool when the seasons change. I don't know if that's more of a suggestion to this device or not, but something tells me it's that same damn heat/cool switch.
- cantlin 15y agoI wonder if they'll provide an API. Are any companies in this space taking a platform-oriented approach to their domestic gizmos? Someone needs to put my home on the command line.
- pjin 15y ago27. Hardware/software hybrids. Most hackers find hardware projects alarming. You have to deal with messy, expensive physical stuff. ... There's a lot of low-hanging fruit in hardware; you can often do dramatically new things by making comparatively small tweaks to existing stuff. While Nest doesn't fall in the young startup category, Next is still a great example of what you can do with hardware and software, where "the software plays a very visible role." The design speaks for itself, but the magic is in the software---meaning whatever tricks they pulled from AI, machine learning, control theory or other fields. Of course, "small tweaks" might not be the best way to describe it from the hackers POV, but it makes sense if you're using this device.
- spot 15y agohere's their white-paper PDF: http://assets-www.nest.com/white_papers/efficiency-simulation-white-paper.pdf http://assets-www.nest.com/white_papers/efficiency-simulatio... "The auto-away feature is based on algorithms that interpret occupancy sensor data and provide a confidence determination of whether or not the occupants are away from the home. When the confidence level is high that occupants are away, the autoEaway feature makes a decision to override the existing schedule to save additional energy" it has sensors for movement, temperature, humidity, and light.
- mrspandex 15y agoHow much does this thing cost? The store seems to be down.
- phuff 15y agoIt looks like it's $249 per unit.
- cjoh 15y agoHere's what I don't get -- why have the display to begin with? Why can't the whole thing be programmable via API/Web/Mobile App/Watch/Whatever. Ideally that's what I'd like -- some kind of intelligent device that lives inside of my house that connects to my boiler and AC unit, as well as other major appliances if possible and provides an open API for people to build on top of, and can connect to my router. If someone wants to make a thermostat that looks like Nest, then, it could be something that you just stick to the wall but requires no direct wiring. But it also means that I never need to buy a new thermostat: if I get tired of the Nest, I can switch it like I can any other app. Or just keep it controlled from my phone or tablet or the web.
- ShabbyDoo 15y ago"why have the display to begin with?" My guess is that many consumers have replaced thermostats before and have found the process fairly painless. Or, maybe they understand the idea of replacing one dingus on the wall for another. The idea of cutting wires in one's basement is much scarier. Your suggestion is quite rational but probably hurts sales.
- savrajsingh 15y agoWattvision is making the 'no display' bet, instead opting for a smartphone webapp, or our full website. Check us out at www.wattvision.com. We're just whole-house energy monitoring, right now.
- kruhft 15y agoWasn't one of John McCarthy's original AI papers about an intelligent thermostat?
- rgovostes 15y agoI thought of this too when I heard about it: > In ten or twenty years Minneapolis-Honeywell, which makes many thermostats today, may try to sell you a really fancy home temperature control system. It will know the preferences of temperature and humidity of each member of the family and can detect who is in the room. When several are in the room it makes what it considers a compromise adjustment taking account who has most recently had to suffer having the room climate different from what he prefers. Perhaps Honeywell discovers that these compromises should be modified according to a social rank formula devised by its psychologists and determined by patterns of speech loudness. The brochure describing how the thing works is rather lengthy and the real dope is in a rather technical appendix in small print. http://www-formal.stanford.edu/jmc/little/little.html http://www-formal.stanford.edu/jmc/little/little.html (1983)
- ShabbyDoo 15y agoDarn. I have a dual-fuel system (heat pump for spring/fall with natural gas for winter), so I think I'm out-of-luck for now. My current thermostat has an exterior temperature sensor and switches between modes when the outside temp drops below a certain level. Heat pumps are energy efficient on mildly cold days but don't work very well in the dead of winter. FYI, I live in Ohio.
- quonn 15y agoIf one wants to build stuff like that -- I wonder - how do you do the low-tech stuff (the hardware that is not electronics but the plastics/aluminium shell, glass, etc.)? What skills/tools are required to actually create that? How do you get started if you can't afford mass-production at the beginning?
- HeyLaughingBoy 15y agoSimple: you design your electronics to fit existing cases that can be purchased off the shelf. Here's one of my favorite vendors: http://www.polycase.com http://www.polycase.com There are many, many vendors of plastic and metal electronics enclosures. Many of them will customize them for you with printing, cutouts for displays, etc. I know Polycase will do so very cheaply.
- HeyLaughingBoy 15y agoReplying to my own post because I can't edit it. If you have a specific application in mind, you can contact me if you like. I have used a bunch of enclosure types and I might be able to make a suggestion.
- icefox 15y agoNitpicking: Does it annoy anyone else that the website always has a horizontal scrollbar? Also not sure what about the layout confused me, but I didn't realize that I could scroll down to find out information.
- davidjhall 15y agoIf this thermostat has activity sensors, how can it tell the difference between a pet and a person? Not that I advocate freezing pets while I'm not home, but they don't need a toasty 72.
- qjz 15y agoI also wonder if it can tell the difference between a teenager and the person who actually pays the energy bill.
- brudgers 15y agoSuffers from HGTV syndrome at $249. It isn't going to change the world or revolutionize home automation it's just going to be another "subzero" or "commercial range" as seen on Househunters: Tahoe. The issue with programmable thermostats is that they are not about temperature but comfort, and comfort is affected by what you have been doing and what you are wearing than a few degrees of setting on the thermostat. It's the exceptions that make programmable thermostats problematic - the day you get home early from work and the house is 82 F and high humidity in July, or when you are home with the flu and the heat is off...neither is worth $10 a month of possible savings. We have a non-programmable digital thermostat. It simply has a button with a "$" which bumps the temperature a few degrees toward energy savings based on a user setting. [http://trane.com/Residential/Products/Thermostats/Non-Programmable-Thermostats# http://trane.com/Residential/Products/Thermostats/Non-Progra...] The bulk of our energy savings since the install probably comes from the fact that the temperature is set digitally rather than with an analog resister - so we tend to adjust the temperature more conservatively and less often.
- Splines 15y agoYeah, $249 is way too much. I'd be pressed to spend more than $30 on a thermostat when the one I have works good enough. Programming my current one is like pulling teeth, but I only do it once a year or so (if that). I keep it low and don't have A/C. If I'm hot I'll change into shorts, and if I'm cold I'll put on a sweater.
- algoshift 15y agoRidiculous. Depending on where you live you can save more money by simply using a good size fan blowing cold air into the house at night during the summer. We did just that this summer and did not have to use the air conditioner at all, even during days where daytime temperatures reached well over 100 degrees. On some nights we could get the house down to 65 degrees overnight. The $250 fan paid for itself in less than a month! Total cost of running it 6 to 8 hours per day was less than $10 for the month. This was an experiment to determine whether or not a whole house fan would be a worthwhile investment for next year. Obviously, it is. Next on the list is converting the A/C and heating system to what's known as a "zone" system. Why heat or cool several thousand square feet of a home when you only need one or a few rooms to stay warm or cold? Next would be what I would call "intelligent flow" management. This is of particular value if you live in a two story home. How is a single thermostat on a wall in the family room downstairs going to make decisions about what is best for heating or cooling the upstairs bedroom? Well, it can't. What you can do is have sensors in every single room as well as a way to pump air to and from various locations. Cold air will accumulate downstairs. Hot air upstairs. When the downstairs is comfortable in the winter the upstairs is boiling hot. By using this "intelligent flow" concept the system would simply look for suitable sources of what it needs, say, hot air, and choose to use the least costly source before moving on to a more expensive solution. If the upstairs has three really hot rooms and only one room is occupied, you can pump that hot air back downstairs rather than engaging the furnace. If the sun is keeping the solar collectors nice and hot, use that instead of burning fuel. Following that is some combination of geothermal and solar assist. A simple $20 microprocessor board with some relays and a few sensors can easily manage a set of valves to select a heat source or sink that is more energy efficient than using a compressor or a furnace. Granted, some of the above would cost far more than a $250 gadget to implement. However, it should be obvious that they would more than pay for themselves in relatively short order, particularly the first couple of options. The greater point, I think, is that home energy efficiency is a much larger problem that cannot be addressed in an meaningful manner with a wifi-enabled gadget on a wall, no matter how cool it might look. The good news is that, if we take a serious look at how we build our homes and change the approach the savings can be absolutely monumental.
- nitrogen 15y ago
- mark13 15y agoThey should consider selling accessory units that plug into the wall and monitor the temperature of a specific spot in the house, syncing with the master control via wifi (instead of only reading temperature/motion in the one place the thermostat is installed). I'm thinking of a corner in our house that is always cold -- if it detects I'm there, crank up the heat so it is comfortable in that location. When I leave, do the same for the next spot, or revert back to the "master control" unit. I'm not sure how much money this would save, but it would certainly be a valuable feature I'd pay for, and it would knock the socks off what any normal thermostat could do.
- Jayasimhan 15y ago“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.” - Gandhi
- thanithani 15y agoFor those using Chrome on a Mac to view this link, dont. The site only shows an egg and a testimonial.
- Androsynth 15y agoI'm more impressed by the founding team (with KCB backing) than the product. Can this be the company that finally gives us the smart home we've been promised for decades? I can't imagine they intend to limit themselves to thermostats.
- jpadvo 15y agoI don't think they plan to. From their website: "At Nest, what matters to us are homes and the people inside them. We’re changing the way you think about your home and the way your home thinks."
- nitrogen 15y agoI like the design of the case. I wonder if there's any way to display custom data on the screen, and how they're powering it (apart from the rechargeable battery). I've always said that in order to get home automation into more people's homes it'll have to be "hidden" in something they already buy, like a TV or in this case a thermostat. I'm doing an automation startup[0] that focuses on building more of the behind-the-scenes technology for early adopters and eventual integration into consumer products, but that technology eventually needs to be packaged into something more consumer-friendly. It looks like their presence sensing is actually motion sensing (the tech specs list "activity" sensors). I'd like to combine this with a more detailed presence sensor like the Kinect or Xtion Pro for more detailed control of temperature, lighting, etc. [0] Shameless plug: http://www.nitrogenlogic.com/ http://www.nitrogenlogic.com/
- there 15y agoi've had an ecobee (http://ecobee.com/ http://ecobee.com/) thermostat for a few years and it's little more than a way to bump the heat up while i'm lying in bed. i work from my home so i can't do much with pre-programmed schedules, and i have a dog so i can't let the place get super hot or cold if i'm gone during the day. when it first debuted, they tried to charge a monthly fee for the website (which is a key part of the product, though it can be adjusted from the display itself). my brother works for an hvac company and was having trouble selling any of them because of the monthly fee. eventually they ditched the fee and the website is free for life, and now they have an iphone and android app to easily see and adjust settings. i setup a hack that watched my wireless router to see if my android phone was connected, as a way to detect whether i was in the apartment or not and let the temperature slide more. http://jcs.org/notaweblog/2011/08/30/an_ecobee_automation_hack/ http://jcs.org/notaweblog/2011/08/30/an_ecobee_automation_ha...
- dfc 15y ago"i have a dog so i can't let the place get super hot or cold if i'm gone during the day." You do realize that dogs used to live outside? I have a dog and he can play for hours outside in 20 degree or 85 degree day. You are fooling yourself if you think your dog can not handle indoor environmental temp swings from 50 - 85 degrees. Do you always use your dog to justify things?
- nicksergeant 15y agoDoes anybody have any research to suggest that this would result in less energy usage with a boiler (baseboard water heating)? From what I understand, frequent fluctuations in temp settings with a boiler result in more energy usage, as the boiler requires far more energy to go from 65° -> 68° as it does to maintain a steady 68°. Thoughts?
- asmithmd1 15y agoThermal transfer is proportional to the difference in temperature between the inside and outside of your house. For every bit of energy you put into maintaining the difference some energy is lost to the atmosphere. If your system is equipped with an aquastat that turns the circulator pump on only after the water reaches a certain temperature then it is possible to waste energy if the boiler runs for a short time and the water does not warm up enough to start the circulator.
- wmblaettler 15y agoInteresting. Their pre-order system went down from heavy traffic this afternoon, and now I see a redirect to Best Buy for pre-orders. I wonder if a quick deal was struck between Nest and Best Buy to get the pre-orders back online quickly.
- ezy 15y agoSorry, a simple digital thermometer with a digital push button up/down temperature select is more than sufficient, and cheaper. Home automation, in general, has a similar feeling to all those weird devices you put in your microwave to make bacon. Buy a damn frying pan.
- tomkarlo 15y agoSufficient, but clearly not optimal. Temperature regulation requires time-based cycles to minimize power use, a scenario that doesn't tend to be served very well by a manually-controlled system. For example, it generally makes sense to reduce heating use an hour or two after bedtime, until an shortly before folks wake up - is someone going to wake up to do that? There's a lot of room here for simple innovations that will save huge amounts of energy when spread out over thousands of homes. Think how much power is saved by motion sensitive lights at offices now.
- ezy 15y agoOk, I can buy that my perspective is slightly different on these matters. I see people who set their AC to 67 and their heat to 78 -- even with time regulation this isn't going to save energy. IMO, Blankets and socks are a fairly universal solution, and that coupled with a few button presses saves an equal amount (maybe more[1]) of energy. I think the main selling point is going to be geek lust and how pretty it is, however. The energy savings is a loose justification for the consumer to spend money on it. [1] I wonder how much of the energy savings will be negated by people turning up the temperature in lieu of dealing with a little inconvenience and minor discomfort because they figure the t-stat will handle it.
- tomkarlo 15y agoOne place it could help is with the problem that most houses have - multiple people playing with the thermostat. It could help find the compromise point where everyone's happy enough that they stop fiddling.
- thebandrews 15y agoFrom what I can tell the "learning" phase is just an extended version of programming your thermostat. I'm curious how this is any different than a traditional thermostat?
- mcantor 15y agoAs opposed to explicitly "programming" your thermostat, you just use it and it programs itself.
- jeffrese 15y agoI love it, sign me up.
- protomyth 15y agoIt would be worth the cash since my parents could actually read the temperature. I do hope Apple adds Siri integration into apps, then my Mom could just tell it what temperature she wanted.
- blahedo 15y agoI read the Wired article about this, and was loving it, and then: "Indeed, the Nest will not only do its learning thing in your home, but also report data to a web site." Really? Does every goddamn thing have to report my habits out to the internet now? Wtf. (Too bad, because I love the idea. Maybe you can turn the spying off.)
- savrajsingh 15y agoHere's a quick list of some other folks taking a swing at the Internet-enabled thermostat space: EnergyHub, EcoFactor, Proliphix, EcoBee, Inthrma, Suntulit, and GE's "nucleus." Nest clearly has some cool differentiating features like "time to temp" and some interesting learning / AI technology. If it delivers on claims of 20% energy savings and they can bring the price down (that must be the plan, I'm sure) I can imagine it being broadly adopted. The challenge with thermostats is there are a few different wiring standards, so you often do need a third party to help you, which introduces a pretty big barrier to adoption. They also seem to have a strategy to lower that barrier, which is cool. As someone who's been in the energy space for over two years now, I'm excited that Nest is bringing some much needed consumer attention our way, and I'm excited to try Nest!
- ja2ke 15y agoThey have a "is your thermostat Nest compatible" guide and video that isnt too unfriendly. http://store.nest.com/#compatibility http://store.nest.com/#compatibility
- seasoup 15y agoThis thing paired with Siri would be awesome. "Siri, what's the temperature at home?" "Home is currently at 65 degrees." "Siri, set home to 75 degrees." "Temperature set to 75 degrees, it will take 15 minutes to reach this temperature."
- jrockway 15y agoComputer, tell me a joke. Knock knock. Who's there? Orange? Orange who? Orange you glad you bought a Power Macintosh? Oh sorry, I was amused at how Apple is marketing early 90s technology as amazing in 2011.
- seasoup 15y agoApple does well because it presents old technology in a way that is much easier for the masses to grok and use. I don't know why this offends geeks. I'm a geek and I love it when technology is presented in an easy to use way. I hate TV remote controls, I know how to use them but I shouldn't have to have 5 of them and universal remotes out there are pretty much crap. I have one, but the Tivo remote is so much more intuitive for that interface that we've abandoned the universal all together. That's an example of an industry ripe for someone with the design and tech chops to come in and fix and then jrockway will be talking about how amused he is that fools are so excited by this old technology. :)
- gcv 15y agoThis device looks great, but might not be usable in some municipalities. Some building codes mandate that a thermostat must be individually programmable for a different temperature for each of 7 days a week, and specify an energy-saving min-max range.
- conductrics 15y agoNot sure why the focusing on the learning alogs or the utility of the thermostat - my guess is that company really isn't about the thermostat at all. You can almost hear the founders/investors excitedly throwing around the various buzz terms with this one: 'Big Data!' 'Data Exhaust!', 'DataScience!' 'Household Traffic Patterns!' 'Web cookie for the home!!!!' etc. Looks like a cynical play at trying to become a BigData company by collecting household energy consumption and traffic patterns and who knows what else. Doesn't seem like it provides enough value to trade off being spied on in your home.