8 ms·

Why are we calling it crypto? Just call them private coins

60 points by rickrollin 4y ago

formerkrogemp 4y ago
It's a little late for crypto shills to rebrand. I don't think the word 'shill' is uncalled for at this point. I've been burned a bit and so have some of my friends and family. I haven't seen anyone offering refunds, just lovely names like "degenerate."
- duskwuff 4y ago
  > just lovely names like "degenerate." The use of this term as an insult has some especially nasty history behind it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degenerate_art https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degenerate_art
  - yesenadam 4y ago
    Degenerate and base art thou. – Shakespeare, The Two Gentlemen of Verona, Act 5, Scene 4
    - fknorangesite 4y ago
      What are you trying to say here?
      - yesenadam 4y ago
        I thought for a moment maybe the noun as an insult started with the Nazis, but no, the word goes back a long way. p.s. I notice the vast majority of your HN comments are similarly very short and low-effort, with a lot of not-very-nice jabs at people on here. Doesn't make for pleasant reading.
        fknorangesite 4y ago
        I asked because it's a common tactic for people who would use "degenerate" deliberately with its modern, Nazi-associated connotation but simultaneously (and dishonestly) try and hide behind the fact that it is in fact a much older word, thus protecting their dogwhistle. I was trying to suss out if that's what you were doing. > Doesn't make for pleasant reading. I can live with that. Brevity is the soul of wit?
  - elil17 4y ago
    I believe GP is saying that crypto shills have called them a degenerate. I don't think they're using that word themselves.
    - formerkrogemp 4y ago
      Yes, I was called a "degenerate." I wasn't calling anyone else that. I was just expressing my displeasure with cryptocurrency and its, shall we say, advocates.
jazzythom 4y ago
jmprspret 4y ago
Well, most of them aren't private. So, that doesn't work either.
- qeternity 4y ago
  Of course they are. Private in this context means non-sovereign.
  - jmprspret 4y ago
    In the context of cryptocurrency, "private" can mean a lot of things.
  - tromp 4y ago
    > public coins in the sense of government backed currency and we get private coins in the sense of company backed currency We don't call them that because blockchain (as originally intended) should be not be company backed. > I think we can catalog most of the companies in the crypto scene in this part. Yes, we still have foundations (ETH), but let's be real, they are not the majority. Ignoring that with its 70% premine, ETH significantly deviates from the decentralization ideal, Bitcoin and Ethereum together do form the huge majority of the cryptospace.
    - Anunayj 4y ago
      Wait... ETH had a premine? and with their move to PoS, It's basically a recipe for Rich becomes Richer. How do people not see the clear signs of a pyramid scheme wtf.
- MafellUser 4y ago
  Well just call them privatized coins, all problems solved!
Proven 4y ago
bradwood 4y ago
A rose by any other name would smell as sweet -- William Shakespeare
ramphastidae 4y ago
> Can we just talk about the fact that airlines have private coins but they just call them points or miles? Or what about this thing that everyone hates inside of video games that is just passing money to power points or gold coins, or jewels, etc. Or even casinos with stablecoins that are just called chips. This is actually very interesting and one of the first times I have heard of practical uses of crypto. If credit card or airlines rewards were credited via decentralized private coins, users would have greater ownership of their rewards, and they could be traded in secondary markets.
- tornato7 4y ago
  This is one use of crypto that I really want to come to fruition. Imagine being able to trade your Delta Skymiles for Kohl’s Cash on Uniswap instantly and for 30bps in fees. It would finally make all these random rewards programs worthwhile.
  - KyeRussell 4y ago
    If organisations offering reward programs wanted this they would do it regardless of the existence of blockchain technology. The point is that they don’t, it goes against the point of the programs in the first place. This is the utter insanity of crypto pipe dreams. They do not necessitate blockchain, and blockchain is rarely the most technically suitable means of implementation. The issues are real-world power dynamics and conflicting interests. Completely orthogonal to the blockchain.
    - tornato7 4y ago
      Assuming that organizations did want to do this, I would argue that a public blockchain is the most technically suitable solution. I can write up and deploy a new token contract in a few hours and it will be instantly tradable with thousands of other assets on-chain. Compare that to building and hosting your own systems, integrating with dozens of payment methods, and somehow linking up with the interfaces of every other rewards program out there.
ls15 4y ago
Privacy coins are already a subset of cryptocurrencies, so private coins would be a terribly confusing term...
bongoman37 4y ago
ChrisRR 4y ago
> So, why are we still trying to make crypto happen? Because it's just a resurgence of Beanie Babies. It's just this decade's get rich quick scheme
- ncmncm 4y ago
  "Just call them 'grift'."
ritabratamaiti 4y ago
I think the allure of "crypto" is the same as the allure of "gold": it's a store of value that isn't subject to government manipulation (may/may not always be true)
mintyDijon 4y ago
Monero is cryptocurrency, this article is just venting from someone who buys into scams. Crypto matters because privacy matters, and privacy needs decentralization. -edit- Just to add clarity, decentralization is necessary becasue inevitably the people we need to hide from, are the same ones in control of the system.
- jjulius 4y ago
  You're suggesting that, in order to hide from people, we use a financial system where every single transaction is publicly recorded and available for all to see?
  - iWillOffshoreU 4y ago
    You should google monero first because that's the opposite of what it does.
    - jjulius 4y ago
      I am fully aware of what Monero sets out to do, but that's the important piece - they set out to do it, but that doesn't mean they will always succeed. It's perfectly possible to trace Monero using publicly available information[1] (I realize this is an older story, but you can still employ similar methods using public data), and the success of using Monero also depends on the competency of the individual[2] (in a similar sense to how successfully obscuring your browsing via Tor is dependent upon you making sure you've dotted your i's and crossed your t's and not just simply relying on Tor alone). There are also companies out there who claim to be able to track these transactions[3]. Monero may be stronger than others, but it's not foolproof and nobody should assume that it is. [1]https://medium.com/@nbax/tracing-the-wannacry-2-0-monero-transactions-d8c1e5129dc1 https://medium.com/@nbax/tracing-the-wannacry-2-0-monero-tra... [2]https://www.wired.com/story/bitcoin-seizure-record-doj-crypto-tracing-monero/ https://www.wired.com/story/bitcoin-seizure-record-doj-crypt... [3]https://ciphertrace.com/enhanced-monero-tracing/ https://ciphertrace.com/enhanced-monero-tracing/ Edit: I mean, hell, even just obtaining access to a key essentially eliminates anonymity. You may go above and beyond in your efforts to obscure your activities, but if someone else involved gets busted and officials get access to their account, well...
helsinki 4y ago
Too late.
FlacoJones 4y ago
People in crypto invent new words rather than building new things all too often. I think it's a carryover practice that emerged from the whitepaper era of 2017-2018, when you had to have a massive pseudo-intellectual theoretical framework supporting your dApp to support a token raise. Build cool things and don't hide behind jargon.
someonewhocar3s 4y ago

60 points by rickrollin 4y ago

It's a little late for crypto shills to rebrand. I don't think the word 'shill' is uncalled for at this point. I've been burned a bit and so have some of my friends and family. I haven't seen anyone offering refunds, just lovely names like "degenerate."

duskwuff 4y ago
> just lovely names like "degenerate." The use of this term as an insult has some especially nasty history behind it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degenerate_art https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degenerate_art
- yesenadam 4y ago
  Degenerate and base art thou. – Shakespeare, The Two Gentlemen of Verona, Act 5, Scene 4
  - fknorangesite 4y ago
    What are you trying to say here?
    - yesenadam 4y ago
      I thought for a moment maybe the noun as an insult started with the Nazis, but no, the word goes back a long way. p.s. I notice the vast majority of your HN comments are similarly very short and low-effort, with a lot of not-very-nice jabs at people on here. Doesn't make for pleasant reading.
      - fknorangesite 4y ago
        I asked because it's a common tactic for people who would use "degenerate" deliberately with its modern, Nazi-associated connotation but simultaneously (and dishonestly) try and hide behind the fact that it is in fact a much older word, thus protecting their dogwhistle. I was trying to suss out if that's what you were doing. > Doesn't make for pleasant reading. I can live with that. Brevity is the soul of wit?
- elil17 4y ago
  I believe GP is saying that crypto shills have called them a degenerate. I don't think they're using that word themselves.
  - formerkrogemp 4y ago
    Yes, I was called a "degenerate." I wasn't calling anyone else that. I was just expressing my displeasure with cryptocurrency and its, shall we say, advocates.

jazzythom 4y ago

jmprspret 4y ago

Well, most of them aren't private. So, that doesn't work either.

qeternity 4y ago
Of course they are. Private in this context means non-sovereign.
- jmprspret 4y ago
  In the context of cryptocurrency, "private" can mean a lot of things.
- tromp 4y ago
  > public coins in the sense of government backed currency and we get private coins in the sense of company backed currency We don't call them that because blockchain (as originally intended) should be not be company backed. > I think we can catalog most of the companies in the crypto scene in this part. Yes, we still have foundations (ETH), but let's be real, they are not the majority. Ignoring that with its 70% premine, ETH significantly deviates from the decentralization ideal, Bitcoin and Ethereum together do form the huge majority of the cryptospace.
  - Anunayj 4y ago
    Wait... ETH had a premine? and with their move to PoS, It's basically a recipe for Rich becomes Richer. How do people not see the clear signs of a pyramid scheme wtf.
MafellUser 4y ago
Well just call them privatized coins, all problems solved!

Proven 4y ago

bradwood 4y ago

A rose by any other name would smell as sweet -- William Shakespeare

ramphastidae 4y ago

> Can we just talk about the fact that airlines have private coins but they just call them points or miles? Or what about this thing that everyone hates inside of video games that is just passing money to power points or gold coins, or jewels, etc. Or even casinos with stablecoins that are just called chips. This is actually very interesting and one of the first times I have heard of practical uses of crypto. If credit card or airlines rewards were credited via decentralized private coins, users would have greater ownership of their rewards, and they could be traded in secondary markets.

tornato7 4y ago
This is one use of crypto that I really want to come to fruition. Imagine being able to trade your Delta Skymiles for Kohl’s Cash on Uniswap instantly and for 30bps in fees. It would finally make all these random rewards programs worthwhile.
- KyeRussell 4y ago
  If organisations offering reward programs wanted this they would do it regardless of the existence of blockchain technology. The point is that they don’t, it goes against the point of the programs in the first place. This is the utter insanity of crypto pipe dreams. They do not necessitate blockchain, and blockchain is rarely the most technically suitable means of implementation. The issues are real-world power dynamics and conflicting interests. Completely orthogonal to the blockchain.
  - tornato7 4y ago
    Assuming that organizations did want to do this, I would argue that a public blockchain is the most technically suitable solution. I can write up and deploy a new token contract in a few hours and it will be instantly tradable with thousands of other assets on-chain. Compare that to building and hosting your own systems, integrating with dozens of payment methods, and somehow linking up with the interfaces of every other rewards program out there.

ls15 4y ago

Privacy coins are already a subset of cryptocurrencies, so private coins would be a terribly confusing term...

bongoman37 4y ago

ChrisRR 4y ago

> So, why are we still trying to make crypto happen? Because it's just a resurgence of Beanie Babies. It's just this decade's get rich quick scheme

ncmncm 4y ago
"Just call them 'grift'."

ritabratamaiti 4y ago

I think the allure of "crypto" is the same as the allure of "gold": it's a store of value that isn't subject to government manipulation (may/may not always be true)

mintyDijon 4y ago

Monero is cryptocurrency, this article is just venting from someone who buys into scams. Crypto matters because privacy matters, and privacy needs decentralization. -edit- Just to add clarity, decentralization is necessary becasue inevitably the people we need to hide from, are the same ones in control of the system.

jjulius 4y ago
You're suggesting that, in order to hide from people, we use a financial system where every single transaction is publicly recorded and available for all to see?
- iWillOffshoreU 4y ago
  You should google monero first because that's the opposite of what it does.
  - jjulius 4y ago
    I am fully aware of what Monero sets out to do, but that's the important piece - they set out to do it, but that doesn't mean they will always succeed. It's perfectly possible to trace Monero using publicly available information[1] (I realize this is an older story, but you can still employ similar methods using public data), and the success of using Monero also depends on the competency of the individual[2] (in a similar sense to how successfully obscuring your browsing via Tor is dependent upon you making sure you've dotted your i's and crossed your t's and not just simply relying on Tor alone). There are also companies out there who claim to be able to track these transactions[3]. Monero may be stronger than others, but it's not foolproof and nobody should assume that it is. [1]https://medium.com/@nbax/tracing-the-wannacry-2-0-monero-transactions-d8c1e5129dc1 https://medium.com/@nbax/tracing-the-wannacry-2-0-monero-tra... [2]https://www.wired.com/story/bitcoin-seizure-record-doj-crypto-tracing-monero/ https://www.wired.com/story/bitcoin-seizure-record-doj-crypt... [3]https://ciphertrace.com/enhanced-monero-tracing/ https://ciphertrace.com/enhanced-monero-tracing/ Edit: I mean, hell, even just obtaining access to a key essentially eliminates anonymity. You may go above and beyond in your efforts to obscure your activities, but if someone else involved gets busted and officials get access to their account, well...

helsinki 4y ago

Too late.

FlacoJones 4y ago

People in crypto invent new words rather than building new things all too often. I think it's a carryover practice that emerged from the whitepaper era of 2017-2018, when you had to have a massive pseudo-intellectual theoretical framework supporting your dApp to support a token raise. Build cool things and don't hide behind jargon.

someonewhocar3s 4y ago