8 ms·

It's a bit of a shame that the US doesn't really allow part time PhDs (at least not in any of the schools that I asked). If they did, conceivably a lot of thes

It's a bit of a shame that the US doesn't really allow part time PhDs (at least not in any of the schools that I asked). If they did, conceivably a lot of these students could get a relatively well-paying job in engineering or a lab or something, and as such the schools could get away with paying less. Part of the reason that I didn't bother trying to pursue the CUNY PhD in mathematics was specifically because the stipend they were offering wouldn't be enough to cover my mortgage (~$2,000/month), and they didn't offer any kind of part-time plan.

FunnyBadger 4y ago
They definitely do in engineering - USC and UCLA had most of its PhD students working full time in industry and only part time in their PhD program and grad school generally. I know because I was one of them.
- tombert 4y ago
  Fair enough; when I reached out to schools within commuting distance of me (the general NYC area), none of them offered any kind of part time plan for Mathematics or Computer Science (the only fields I'm really interested in). Sadly, there are not a ton of universities that offer an online PhD in CS or Math, meaning that I was limited to what I could easily get to via train, at least in regards to schools in the United States. Eventually I found one school in England that was willing to let me do a part time PhD online, which is where I'm enrolled now.
  - lupire 4y ago
    England is easy for getting a PhD in math or CS -- just do your own research independently , and then submit your thesis for PhD certification..
- david38 4y ago
  I have never heard of this for computer science. I went to UIUC so I am only talking about the Midwest. How would you have time to finish? A full time PhD works a LOT. I can’t imagine doubling the time to a PhD.
  - abhgh 4y ago
    I did a part-time PhD (not in the US, so I am only responding to the latter part of your comment). It's hard, exhausting and can occasionally be frustrating. I gave up most of my weekends during the time. My sleep hours were less than what they should have been - and I did this for years. If you're wondering, it did lead to some health problems (esp. my back), thankfully not major, most of which I've recovered from. Do it only if research really interests you - this was my case, so the sense of gratification from learning and finding out things offset many of the negatives. Also, having a patient advisor and good friends helped a lot.
    - tombert 4y ago
      Out of curiosity, since you've gone through this before, do you have any advice on the best way to manage your time doing a part-time PhD. I've started my part-time a month ago, and it's been pretty exhausting already, and I suspect it will get harder. How did you budget time to talk to family, or to do something for yourself to avoid burnout?
      - abhgh 4y ago
        It was hard for me to set aside specific hours of the day for PhD during the week - because I occasionally had early morning and late evening meetings for my day job. And on some days the work itself would spill over. So the simple policy I followed as: if I am not involved in work from my job, work on the PhD. Far from simple to follow though. I'd often work out of cafes and libraries (I used to cycle between a small set of my favorites), because the change of atmosphere, and often the ambient activity, helps. Not to mention, if you're tired and trying to work from home, it's easier to get distracted (I could justify dozing off), than when you're at a cafe with your laptop in front of you and there's little else to do. I found that university cafes can be particularly helpful because you see a lot of people working around you. Family and friends: I didn't really plan talk time with my parents or friends but was mindful we talk without too much of a gap in between (at least twice a week with parents). I used to reserve the times when I really needed to unwind for these chats. Note: I was single for most of my PhD, and got married when things were winding down. On weekends, I would typically allow myself Sat morning off for a change of pace. On most weekends, I would drive off out of my normal ambit of travel, and work from a cafe/library away from home. Of course, none of above advice worked during the pandemic- working on the PhD became relatively harder then. Essentially, since I couldn't have changed the amount of work I needed to do, I substituted that lack of variation by constantly changing the atmosphere I worked in. That helped a lot.
- moron4hire 4y ago
  Yeah, a friend of mine has a PhD in Economics, that he got while working full-time at FDIC. I know a number of people working full-time at government research labs in various math and science fields that are PhD candidates. The part-time PhD seems like it's extremely common as long as there is real, employment-market demand for that PhD, too. On the other hand, all the history PhDs I know can't even get work at their own university.
LewisVerstappen 4y ago
Where is all this tuition even going to? Schools in the US charge an absurd amount of tuition compared to schools in Europe/Asia and yet these colleges are also systematically underpaying PhD students, Teaching Assistants, etc. College Professors don't exactly make the big bucks either. Yet, universities in the US have made put many Americans in lifelong debt. These colleges are all "nonprofit" (and get significant tax benefits), so where is the money even going?
- renewiltord 4y ago
  These places are primarily admin staff with a small teaching department.
- johnebgd 4y ago
  Middle management/admin salaries.
- twistedpair 4y ago
  Ever seen Football coach, and college president salaries? For state colleges, they're often some of the highest paid employees in the state. [1] 1. https://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/28261213/dabo-swinney-ed-orgeron-highest-paid-state-employees https://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/28261213/dabo-s...
  - dgfitz 4y ago
    The vast majority of coaches don't make this kind of money. I refuse to believe tuition is insanely high because of coaching salaries. I was actually under the (possibly incorrect) assumption that coaches salaries come largely from boosters and things like ticket sales, jersey sales, etc.
    - twistedpair 4y ago
      Here's some real data for you, in a NY college no less. President of my undergrad college made $884K last year [1], but a medical school professor made nearly $2M. 1. https://nonprofitlight.com/ny/rochester/university-of-rochester https://nonprofitlight.com/ny/rochester/university-of-roches...
gaze 4y ago
I don't really know how one does a part-time PhD. The kind of work that you produce during a PhD requires 4-6 years of full dedication. A part-time masters I could see.
- tombert 4y ago
  In England a PhD tends to take on the order of 3-4 years if done full time, largely because they generally require a masters as a prerequisite to even start the degree. A part-time PhD tends to take on the order of 5-6 years. Of course, even doing a part-time PhD, you end up spending a fair bit of time studying (on the order of 4-6 hours/night).
twobitshifter 4y ago
Colorado State will allow this fully online. https://www.online.colostate.edu/degrees/online-phd.dot https://www.online.colostate.edu/degrees/online-phd.dot
the_svd_doctor 4y ago
A PhD is a full-time job, time-wise. I'm not sure how _really_ feasible a part-time PhD + part-time job really is. Maybe for some, but most likely not for most imho. Agreed that it would help financially though.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
compsciphd 4y ago
when I was a phd student at Columbia, we had a student in our lab who was a full time employee at TJ Watson and his work at Watson was part and parcel of his phd. Basically supervised by both his IBM manager and my advisor. When I was looking at programs, as I already had been working at a military lab since I was in HS, I asked every advisor I interviewed with if research work I was doing at the lab could be the basis of the phd if I wanted (i.e. to do the same thing as the labmate mentioned) and almost everyone I spoke to had zero issues with it, with the proviso that the work was appropriate for a phd. At the end of the day, I did it all on campus (with many summers spent at labs or industry), but a good chunk of the work I did could easily have been done with proper guidance in an industry setting as well (though that's more in retrospect, I wouldn't have known how to sell the ideas to industry back then).
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
georgeburdell 4y ago
As a PhD student, I already got paid for only 20 hours of work per week. Of course, I worked at least 60.
hedora 4y ago
Engineering PhD candidates often have summer internships that pay extremely well. Most thesis advisors encourage their students to do this, since it helps ground research in real world problems (and conserves grant money, of course!)
abcc8 4y ago
I believe that the stipulation of no part-time PhD is dependent on training grant requirements. I couldn't have a second job during graduate school and it would cause big problems for the department, and by extension, me, if I was found to have a second job. It might work differently in other fields, but this is at least my experience in a hospital-affiliated biology department.
t_mann 4y ago
Tbf, if it's not a lab-based PhD, you'll usually manage to work on the side. I know several people who were in full-time employment throughout pretty much their whole PhD (aided by supportive employers and sabbaticals). Even at (elite) universities that had explicit rules against it, and cases where the university and the jobs were in different countries. I even know one guy who did a lab-based engineering PhD and continued doing a bit of consulting work for his old employer. It's not even that uncommon among people with prior work experience and skills that fit well with consulting/freelance work. You'll see it on LinkedIn. Internships are also common in many disciplines like Math and CS, and good advisors can even help you get them (I know a prof who sends at least one grad student to intern at Google every year). It's not advertised and usually not recommended, but it's definitely possible. The key is to find a supervisor who's fine with it, don't even bother asking the administrators.

FunnyBadger 4y ago

They definitely do in engineering - USC and UCLA had most of its PhD students working full time in industry and only part time in their PhD program and grad school generally. I know because I was one of them.

tombert 4y ago
Fair enough; when I reached out to schools within commuting distance of me (the general NYC area), none of them offered any kind of part time plan for Mathematics or Computer Science (the only fields I'm really interested in). Sadly, there are not a ton of universities that offer an online PhD in CS or Math, meaning that I was limited to what I could easily get to via train, at least in regards to schools in the United States. Eventually I found one school in England that was willing to let me do a part time PhD online, which is where I'm enrolled now.
- lupire 4y ago
  England is easy for getting a PhD in math or CS -- just do your own research independently , and then submit your thesis for PhD certification..
david38 4y ago
I have never heard of this for computer science. I went to UIUC so I am only talking about the Midwest. How would you have time to finish? A full time PhD works a LOT. I can’t imagine doubling the time to a PhD.
- abhgh 4y ago
  I did a part-time PhD (not in the US, so I am only responding to the latter part of your comment). It's hard, exhausting and can occasionally be frustrating. I gave up most of my weekends during the time. My sleep hours were less than what they should have been - and I did this for years. If you're wondering, it did lead to some health problems (esp. my back), thankfully not major, most of which I've recovered from. Do it only if research really interests you - this was my case, so the sense of gratification from learning and finding out things offset many of the negatives. Also, having a patient advisor and good friends helped a lot.
  - tombert 4y ago
    Out of curiosity, since you've gone through this before, do you have any advice on the best way to manage your time doing a part-time PhD. I've started my part-time a month ago, and it's been pretty exhausting already, and I suspect it will get harder. How did you budget time to talk to family, or to do something for yourself to avoid burnout?
    - abhgh 4y ago
      It was hard for me to set aside specific hours of the day for PhD during the week - because I occasionally had early morning and late evening meetings for my day job. And on some days the work itself would spill over. So the simple policy I followed as: if I am not involved in work from my job, work on the PhD. Far from simple to follow though. I'd often work out of cafes and libraries (I used to cycle between a small set of my favorites), because the change of atmosphere, and often the ambient activity, helps. Not to mention, if you're tired and trying to work from home, it's easier to get distracted (I could justify dozing off), than when you're at a cafe with your laptop in front of you and there's little else to do. I found that university cafes can be particularly helpful because you see a lot of people working around you. Family and friends: I didn't really plan talk time with my parents or friends but was mindful we talk without too much of a gap in between (at least twice a week with parents). I used to reserve the times when I really needed to unwind for these chats. Note: I was single for most of my PhD, and got married when things were winding down. On weekends, I would typically allow myself Sat morning off for a change of pace. On most weekends, I would drive off out of my normal ambit of travel, and work from a cafe/library away from home. Of course, none of above advice worked during the pandemic- working on the PhD became relatively harder then. Essentially, since I couldn't have changed the amount of work I needed to do, I substituted that lack of variation by constantly changing the atmosphere I worked in. That helped a lot.
moron4hire 4y ago
Yeah, a friend of mine has a PhD in Economics, that he got while working full-time at FDIC. I know a number of people working full-time at government research labs in various math and science fields that are PhD candidates. The part-time PhD seems like it's extremely common as long as there is real, employment-market demand for that PhD, too. On the other hand, all the history PhDs I know can't even get work at their own university.

LewisVerstappen 4y ago

Where is all this tuition even going to? Schools in the US charge an absurd amount of tuition compared to schools in Europe/Asia and yet these colleges are also systematically underpaying PhD students, Teaching Assistants, etc. College Professors don't exactly make the big bucks either. Yet, universities in the US have made put many Americans in lifelong debt. These colleges are all "nonprofit" (and get significant tax benefits), so where is the money even going?

renewiltord 4y ago
These places are primarily admin staff with a small teaching department.
johnebgd 4y ago
Middle management/admin salaries.
twistedpair 4y ago
Ever seen Football coach, and college president salaries? For state colleges, they're often some of the highest paid employees in the state. [1] 1. https://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/28261213/dabo-swinney-ed-orgeron-highest-paid-state-employees https://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/28261213/dabo-s...
- dgfitz 4y ago
  The vast majority of coaches don't make this kind of money. I refuse to believe tuition is insanely high because of coaching salaries. I was actually under the (possibly incorrect) assumption that coaches salaries come largely from boosters and things like ticket sales, jersey sales, etc.
  - twistedpair 4y ago
    Here's some real data for you, in a NY college no less. President of my undergrad college made $884K last year [1], but a medical school professor made nearly $2M. 1. https://nonprofitlight.com/ny/rochester/university-of-rochester https://nonprofitlight.com/ny/rochester/university-of-roches...

gaze 4y ago

I don't really know how one does a part-time PhD. The kind of work that you produce during a PhD requires 4-6 years of full dedication. A part-time masters I could see.

tombert 4y ago
In England a PhD tends to take on the order of 3-4 years if done full time, largely because they generally require a masters as a prerequisite to even start the degree. A part-time PhD tends to take on the order of 5-6 years. Of course, even doing a part-time PhD, you end up spending a fair bit of time studying (on the order of 4-6 hours/night).

twobitshifter 4y ago

Colorado State will allow this fully online. https://www.online.colostate.edu/degrees/online-phd.dot https://www.online.colostate.edu/degrees/online-phd.dot

the_svd_doctor 4y ago

A PhD is a full-time job, time-wise. I'm not sure how _really_ feasible a part-time PhD + part-time job really is. Maybe for some, but most likely not for most imho. Agreed that it would help financially though.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

compsciphd 4y ago

when I was a phd student at Columbia, we had a student in our lab who was a full time employee at TJ Watson and his work at Watson was part and parcel of his phd. Basically supervised by both his IBM manager and my advisor. When I was looking at programs, as I already had been working at a military lab since I was in HS, I asked every advisor I interviewed with if research work I was doing at the lab could be the basis of the phd if I wanted (i.e. to do the same thing as the labmate mentioned) and almost everyone I spoke to had zero issues with it, with the proviso that the work was appropriate for a phd. At the end of the day, I did it all on campus (with many summers spent at labs or industry), but a good chunk of the work I did could easily have been done with proper guidance in an industry setting as well (though that's more in retrospect, I wouldn't have known how to sell the ideas to industry back then).

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

georgeburdell 4y ago

As a PhD student, I already got paid for only 20 hours of work per week. Of course, I worked at least 60.

hedora 4y ago

Engineering PhD candidates often have summer internships that pay extremely well. Most thesis advisors encourage their students to do this, since it helps ground research in real world problems (and conserves grant money, of course!)

abcc8 4y ago

I believe that the stipulation of no part-time PhD is dependent on training grant requirements. I couldn't have a second job during graduate school and it would cause big problems for the department, and by extension, me, if I was found to have a second job. It might work differently in other fields, but this is at least my experience in a hospital-affiliated biology department.

t_mann 4y ago

Tbf, if it's not a lab-based PhD, you'll usually manage to work on the side. I know several people who were in full-time employment throughout pretty much their whole PhD (aided by supportive employers and sabbaticals). Even at (elite) universities that had explicit rules against it, and cases where the university and the jobs were in different countries. I even know one guy who did a lab-based engineering PhD and continued doing a bit of consulting work for his old employer. It's not even that uncommon among people with prior work experience and skills that fit well with consulting/freelance work. You'll see it on LinkedIn. Internships are also common in many disciplines like Math and CS, and good advisors can even help you get them (I know a prof who sends at least one grad student to intern at Google every year). It's not advertised and usually not recommended, but it's definitely possible. The key is to find a supervisor who's fine with it, don't even bother asking the administrators.