8 ms·

I dont like the idea of replacing the time spend compulsively procrastinating with "learning a new language, getting a pet, going to the gym" is the right way.

• nextaccountic 4y ago
  > I see the root cause (for me atleast (used to read HN and blogs for 4 hours everyday)) is that i cant stand being with myself. > During the last two months ive been trying to not panic when i'm idle. And not take out my phone or read the nearest material i can lay my hands on. > (...) > My advice on "doing something" when you have day without plans is the following: Bike in the forrest, coffee from thermos near the ocean, read newspapers at the library, talk to people at trainstations (the frequent hangouts are always open for conversations) Or maybe meditate? It may be hard (specially when beginning) but it's wonderful for learning to comfortable with yourself
• magicroot75 4y ago
  You might like the book "4000 Weeks: Time Management for Mortals." It's about this precise idea of valuing idleness (there's no quick way to change that mindset, it's a process).
  • sireat 4y ago
    Thank You for this recommendation, a refreshing book in the age of GTD, 4-hour workweek and numerous "lifehacks".
• katzgrau 4y ago
  They're just cliche ideas for how to fill the time. Anyone one who tries to break an addiction suddenly finds themselves with a lot of free time they don't know how to fill. But on that note, have multiple kids AND get a pet. You'll never have a free minute again.
  • nonamenoslogan 4y ago
    Or multiple pets and no kids, got 2 labs, a cat, a fish, and a cockatiel--its never boring at my house.
  • travisgriggs 4y ago
    > But on that note, have multiple kids AND get a pet. You'll never have a free minute again. But then you’ll flock to these addictions because you feel you need an escape. I have four kids and a ShiTsu.
  • alex_suzuki 4y ago
    I would strongly argue against having kids as a solution for any of life‘s problems. Kids are an incredibly demanding venture and can exacerbate existing problems. Speaking from experience here.
    • tomcam 4y ago
      YMMV. Kids made my life immeasurably better. And I have some with severe handicaps.
    • deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    • unclad5968 4y ago
      I think he was being facetious.
      • alex_suzuki 4y ago
        After rereading, I think you’re right.
• jnovek 4y ago
  I am nearly the opposite, but it has the same effect. I can spend hours in my own head, just thinking about… everything. For me the phone rabbit hole usually starts with an idea that needs more information to live. The outcome, however, is the same: I get very little practical work done, I am constantly behind and very frustrated.
  • ChildOfChaos 4y ago
    Yes I have this problem. I am getting better at doing things, but I quickly become overwhelmed, because those thoughts never stop and instead of doing what I need to do, it's a battle plus all those thoughts I have that feel like I need to spend time thinking them through etc, rather than doing the most basic of things that I need to do.
• noobker 4y ago
  > I hold unto my right as a mammal to be inefficient and sit drooling looking at trees here, here!
  • tommit 4y ago
    Quick question: we have a similar (the same?) exclamation in German, it's "hört, hört!" which would be translated to "hear, hear!", not "here, here!". Is it actually "here, here!" in English or it possible you've just mistaken the words after having only heard them?
    • noobker 4y ago
      The old saying in English is "hear, hear", in reference to old parliament procedures. I use "here, here" on text forums because you can't hear anything, but "right here" is a post worth reading!
    • dqft 4y ago
      You are right. "Hear, hear" is correct qnd indicates approval.
      • tommit 4y ago
        Thanks for clearing that up!
    • wheybags 4y ago
      It's "hear hear"
    • deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    • Agamus 4y ago
      The expression comes from England's Parliament. The full version is, "Hear, Hear the excellent speaker!"
• Ryoung27 4y ago
  I agree with you on not liking the idea of changing your time sinks. I ran into a similar problem as your's with Reddit, and realized it was because I did not really like my self. Somewhere along the way I realized I had not day dreamed or used my imagination for a long time because it was so easy to "read the nearest material I can lay my hands on". To add to your advice I would suggest to try to find out who you are without outside material and to get comfortable with this self.
  • galangalalgol 4y ago
    But what if being in the moment at one with yourself and your environment is an addiction for you as well? I spent years in the trap he describes. Binging passive eacapes like YouTube Netflix, an even pulp fiction novels. Video games were a step up, at least they involved engagement. I also loved solo hiking, or even staring at a blank wall thinking, or not thinking. Anything to avoid cleaning the dishes, folding clothes, filling out forms, making phone calls, or any task I couldn't manage to hyperfocus on. I only escaped by getting married and having a kid. Love for others helped where love to self did not. After all, I was happy in that place, and probably still would be. But while a family is work, its also a challenge, and rising to meet it gives a real sense of accomplishment. Now that I am diagnosed as ADHD and have some mmedicine and training to deal with it, I find that using them to push through other tasks I don't like, also brings that sense of accomplishment and those unexpected rewards make it easier the next time. ADHD brains don't accept deferred rewards as positive reinforcement for learning purposes, so you either need continuous rewards, or medicine/tricks to get through. Also we respond better to negative reinforcement, so if it doesn't harm your emotional state, denying yourself things as a punishment can work, also focussing on natural consequences of failing to complete a task works sometimes, even in advance.
• dhosek 4y ago
  I’ve found that having a very finite procrastination activity (like, say, doing ten push-ups) can help. The trick is finding something that can’t be extended indefinitely.
• anarticle 4y ago
  At least if you know you have addictive tendencies you will get a benefit! :D It's a good first step to replacing a destructive/ineffective behavior with something a little better. I think in our software somewhere we all have a kind of addictive complex that for some, modern tech seems to be good at pushing. If you can wield it for good, I think that's a good change. I agree with you that the obsession with S-tier clearing life is very bad for people. I have many young friends who obsess over optimizing every move they make at cost to their sanity and time. Specialization is for insects.
• bsedlm 4y ago
  > I hold unto my right as a mammal to be inefficient and sit drooling looking at trees. yes, I even like framing this as an environmental conservation activity. I'm doing nothing at all (only consuming oxygen, no content, no nothing) as a conscious action to save the environment.
  • Robotbeat 4y ago
    I don’t want to guilt anyone here, but just sitting there and consuming oxygen and therefore calories is a significant environmental impact. Feeding humans, especially fresh fruits and vegetables or meat, has a pretty large environmental impact. (Staples like grains and such don’t because they’re storable and calorie-dense on a per-acre metric.) And humans can have a positive impact on the environment. We can plant trees, do civil engineering to shore up damaged ecosystems, care for animals, develop cleaner ways to live and make food, etc. humans do not have to be a net negative for the environment. Which isn’t to say that resting and daydreaming are bad or net negative. I think they’re good! Even if just good for the soul, that helps fight the encroaching nihilism of modern life and think more in a positive-sum manner.
    • jokethrowaway 4y ago
      At which point does an animal goes from being part of the environment to have its diet analysed for "environmental impact"?
    • bsedlm 4y ago
      reminds me of church of euthanasia's "save the planet kill yourself" from the older internet. the point is that it's the least we can consume, in contrast with a more capitalist friendly "go sit at a cafe to buy a drink" or even a scholarly-ambitious "read a book, or newspaper or learn something, don't just sit there". both of which are much worse.
      • Robotbeat 4y ago
        But that just wastes the big climate impact that was invested to grow you to adulthood. Now is the time to reinvest in the Earth. Humans can definitely have a net-negative carbon footprint if they work at it.
• whywhywhywhy 4y ago
  Once you realize that idle brain time is when actual creative problem solving occurs without you conscious of it then its easier to let go. I definitely feel fine just staring out of a train window rather than my phone knowing this.
  • mbg721 4y ago
    The way I view this is that there's no such thing as idle brain time. When you take away focused conscious thinking, the brain is built to do background problem-solving on its own. (This also makes sense if the purpose of dreaming while asleep is garbage-collection of unresolved thoughts and anxieties.)
• notacoward 4y ago
  > I hold unto my right as a mammal to be inefficient and sit drooling looking at trees. OK, I get this. Really, I do. I've spent many many hours doing "nothing" just like this, and those have generally been happy times. But ... how would that change if you had a lot more free time? Could you spend all day every day in such a state? Would it be healthy if you did? The reason I ask is that I've had to grapple with that question since I retired. Probably will even more so when my daughter leaves for college. And as much as I enjoy doing "nothing" I find that I just can't do it all day. I have to be doing something, which brings us right back to the issue of low-effort low-reward activities (e.g. doomscrolling on the internet) vs. high-effort high-reward activities (e.g. hobbies, community involvement, travel). I force myself to do the latter first so I don't lose the ability to do hard(er) things, and there's still plenty of time left over for the low-effort stuff. I suggest that your "war" only needs to be fought because you don't have enough total free time, and it will seem like a very different war when that changes.
  • aswegs8 4y ago
    This somehow points towards an interesting question. Is it healthy or "good" to procrastinate? Since this is a problem almost everyone has during their life, it must serve some evolutionary purpose. What if it was disadvantageous to outwork everyone else during anthropogenesis even if it is rational in our modern world where the upside is practically unlimited and the downside is nearly always limited? A natural environment is almost exactly the opposite - Does that mean we are fighting our "natural" behavior every day? This question isn't meaning to be fatalistic, exactly what OP and the video by Luke Smith he linked criticize. But understanding the biological reason behind procrastination could lead us to some deeper understanding on how to win this uphill battle.
  • supernihil 4y ago
    I agree. I recently came on sick leave due to stress and had to grasp the immense amount of sudden time on my hands. Since i am on sickleave due to anxiety, stress and skizotypia i dont usually like being alone with my thoughts. so what ive done with my time is this: Wake up, fill my thermos with hot water. Leave my apartment. Drive around on my bike looking for hidden places. It can be an empty lot behind a supermarket or an off-path place in the forrest. Walk around and study the vegetation. Find a nice place for some instant coffee, chill. Sit-drink coffee-stare-listen-repeat. Decide to leave. Bike to a place where there is a lot of people i know. Leave cuz i am too anxious to talk to any of them. Have a quick chat at the harbour with some strangers. Go to the library and read a bit of comics or newspapers. Take the bus to another harbour. Make minor.fixes to my small boat from the 70's. Go to the swimming hall. chill in sauna and max up the heat. Stare. Go home, make food for minimum money as an exercise. Eat. Think about projects i could imagine would be fun. Imagine the details of them. Maybe write them down. Be okay with never doing them. Watch some hbo. Plan when i have my kids again "maybe tomorrow?" And where to take them? Usually the beach or the forrest and have fun in the woods. Go my my bedroom without any devices and sleep. I live in denmark
• malux85 4y ago
  I see this a lot and I’m curious - why can’t you stand being with yourself? You touch on it a little when you say you begin to panic when you’re idle - what is the source of that panic? Is it FOMO? Is it un-processed traumatic memories? Is it unhinged neuroticism and overthinking? Is it something else? What is the source of that panic?
  • supernihil 4y ago
    I dont like my company because: I endlessly think about solutions to problems like personal budget, relationship to my kids mom, feeling alone and having no immediate people to talk to. That my mental illness is deteriorating. That my kids will inherit my ilness. Etc etc etc. And then i also spend too much time trying to figure out how other people function since i sincerely dont have an idea of what "normal behavior of lifestyle" looks like" Both of these are traits of my skizotypical diagnosis being 'lack of identity' 'lack of understanding of how other people engage in life' 'emotional blindness' etc