7 ms·

The impact of childhood lead exposure on adult personality (2021)

150 points by tokai 4y ago

jeffxtreme 4y ago
(2021) Veritasium covers the story behind lead in gasoline in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IV3dnLzthDA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IV3dnLzthDA, it's a really interesting albeit sad video. If I recall correctly, he mentions this study in the video.
- maicro 4y ago
  And a far more irreverent (NSFW? but very entertaining, and moderately informational) video about the inventor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4og8wG8VQWM&list=PL96C35uN7xGIo2odDuuPeYtb7BtQ1kBhp&index=26 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4og8wG8VQWM&list=PL96C35uN7x...
- slowmovintarget 4y ago
  The same story is covered in an episode of the newer run of Cosmos; S2E7. I thought the coverage there was better. Brief overview here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yV__MkDqqo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yV__MkDqqo (it ends up being an ad for the show, but good summary, nevertheless).
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
jjazwiecki 4y ago
[flagged]
- fallingfrog 4y ago
  I had the same thought, but I feel a bit uncomfortable saying it without evidence. It's hard to say really, there could be other factors involved. I do know many boomers who are really good people, sensitive and intelligent.
- stainablesteel 4y ago
  the entire world was on lead, some places worse than the us, and it's been a commonly recurring thing in the past couple thousand years of human history due to its use it seems to disagree with the microplastics that the kids are taking now
- Clubber 4y ago
  >No wonder so many of them love politicians who preach lower conscientiousness, lower agreeableness, and higher neuroticism as a political philosophy. Do you honestly believe GenX and Millennial politicians will be any different without some drastic change? When your generation produces the exact same corrupt politicians, maybe you will blame the actual political class who lies to get into office and breaks promises while enriching themselves at the expense of the taxpayer, instead of scapegoating a generation of people.
  - InitialLastName 4y ago
    From recent experience, the non-"political class" politicians don't seem to be that much better about enriching themselves in office.
- theferalrobot 4y ago
  > preach lower conscientiousness, lower agreeableness How conscientious and agreeable of you
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
SemanticStrengh 4y ago
I wonder what the effect of chelation (EDTA) has on personality then.
- mataug 4y ago
  > Chelation therapy is of limited value for cases of chronic exposure to low levels of lead https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoning#Treatment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoning#Treatment
  - SemanticStrengh 4y ago
    It's probably dumb overconservatism, the issue with chelators is that they are often rushed. You can distill low amounts of edta for a longer duration in order to reduce toxicity. Also the following deficits (e.g in zinc) should be supplemented obviously. Moreover there are underused synergies https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21649453/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21649453/
munk-a 4y ago
Just to make sure everyone is aware - this isn't a solved issue of the past. Airplanes continue to use leaded gasoline that, while much smaller relative to everyone's car running on it, contributes to higher than healthy lead in our environment.
- Sakos 4y ago
  In a way that results in higher (or even similar?) exposure to lead compared to when everybody had cars running on it? For your average person? I'm gonna need hard numbers for that. Okay, for the people who can't read between the lines and just resort to downvoting instead of actually being useful in a conversation. 1) The article is about childhood lead exposure on adult personalities. 2) He makes a comment about aviation and its current use of leaded gasoline ("contributes to higher than healthy lead in our environment") with the warning "this isn't a solved issue of the past". 3) This implies that the aviation industry and its use of leaded gas is in any way comparable to what we had before when everybody had daily contact with leaded gas. 4) Nobody has yet provided any evidence of the fact that aviation results in any appreciable exposure to lead for your average citizen. 5) This matters because the original article is not about environmental impact. It's about childhood exposure. How is this so hard? I seriously question the ability of your average HNer to make logical deductions.
  - throwaway0a5e 4y ago
    No, not even close. To portray otherwise is right up there with the people screeching about radiation exposure on the order of spending a day working outside. The lead exposure as a result of stuff your daily life (which is mostly a reflection of the history of where you live and work) contributes far more than avgas in the atmosphere. Unless you live downwind of a busy GA airport and have managed to get all other
  - dEnigma 4y ago
    No, of course not. But that's also not what OP claimed.
  - wlesieutre 4y ago
CalRobert 4y ago
In time, I wonder if lead gas in the US will be written about like lead pipes in Rome.
- fallingfrog 4y ago
  Almost certainly. In fact our problem may be significantly worse. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/oa.3001 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/oa.3001 In particular look at this graphic: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/cms/asset/ca143408-881b-4b17-b046-d6425849adfa/oa3001-fig-0001-m.jpg https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/cms/asset/ca143408-881b-4b17...
- UI_at_80x24 4y ago
  We haven't even learned the lesson of lead in our pipes yet. Sure we shouldn't use it, but my house still has lead pipes running from the street upto the house. SlumLord refuses to do anything about it, and threatens to sell if we "make a big deal about it". Flint MI, is still suffering with lead pipes too. Yes, I hope we are ridiculed for our use of lead in gasoline & pipes. But the real outrage is how these criminal CONTINUE to get away with it.
  - BitwiseFool 4y ago
    Wouldn't threatening to sell involve having to disclose he's got lead pipes and lead to a need for remediation?
    - UI_at_80x24 4y ago
      Unfortunately not in my jurisdiction. The "lead pipes" disclosure is for `inside the house` plumbing. He's a slumlord, even if it was a requirement he wouldn't do it.
- Melatonic 4y ago
  Supposedly many lead pipes actually when even somewhat older will be coated on the inside with crap that prevents most lead exposure. New pipes for sure sound like a problem
wonderwonder 4y ago
Imagine what the lifelong prospects for the Flint kids are going to be. Baltimore, Chicago, Detroit, Milwaukee, Newark, New York, Pittsburgh, Washington, D.C all have high lead levels in their drinking water. These cities are often associated with minority violence but what if its all a direct result of high lead levels and the cities / states failing the vulnerable people that live there.
- refurb 4y ago
  Blood lead levels of Flint kids were barely elevated during the crisis and far lower than levels from earlier years. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30871386/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30871386/ "Conclusion: Analyses of GM and percentages ≥5.0 μg/dL of BLLs do not support the occurrence of a global increase in BLLs in young children of Flint during the entire 18-month period of FRW exposure."
dr_dshiv 4y ago
Anyone else curious about whether their spouse might have been exposed to lead?
andi999 4y ago
The insane thing is that this has been known for a long time. Bavaria banned lead pipes in 1878 (not a typo).
- anyfoo 4y ago
  I'm from Bavaria, and I was absolutely furious when I learned a few months ago that, living in San Francisco now, there is a real chance of lead exposure through pipes and paints. Our house was built in the 50s, so that increased those chances. And California has one of the better regulations. Even so called "lead free" pipes were allowed to have significant lead content just a few decades ago! What you can do is, for $75 per faucet, get your water sampled and tested by the SF water department. We did that and got back the result that there was no lead in measurable quantities. This was a great relief. Our house looks fairly renovated, so they seem to have gotten rid of those pipes, too. This is the kind of thing that you just don't think about when moving to the US.
  - daydream 4y ago
    It is worth mentioning that it’s straightforward to get paint tested for lead content too. Here in an older part of the US there are many companies that do testing. It costs a couple hundred dollars for a typical single family house and you can see the results immediately. Anyone in a house in the US built before the late 1970’s or so that has children should consider it.
    - anyfoo 4y ago
      Thanks, we will do that. My wife thinks it's unlikely since we have no flaking paint anywhere, the windows are fairly new etc., but I think it's worth the peace of mind.
      - bcrosby95 4y ago
        Focus on the wear spots, like door jams and window sills. Lead paint is fine as long as you keep it in good condition, but its hard to keep it in good condition if parts are rubbing against eachother. Also, the standard for contractors is to assume your paint has lead in it if the house was built before the late '70s. Even testing a whole house for lead paint is extremely expensive, and there's no central registry of lead results, so you're gonna have to test over, and over, and over. For water, just to add some extra safety, we installed a reverse osmosis water filter system for our refrigerator hookup, and removed the standard refrigerator one.
DoreenMichele 4y ago
Blood Lead Levels in early childhood are also predictive of stunting, a serious developmental disorder with lifelong consequences that include immune function issues. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31031640 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31031640
Melatonic 4y ago
Does anybody know of a good and affordable way to test lead in water levels? I want to test my tap water at various times and spouts (hot, cold, shower, etc) but all of the at home kits seem to be focused on testing lead paint and physical/dry items vs water testing. Or if I need to send results in to a lab are there any affordable ones out there that are recommended?
- burnout1540 4y ago
  Check out gosimplelab.com
- derbOac 4y ago
  I've done this but it was with local labs. Depending where you are, there might be some in your area.
- CalRobert 4y ago
  I can't speak to how rigorous they are but searching Amazon for "water test kit" shows a lot of results. I used some to test my own water for lead, pesticides, etc. Though I'd want a lab test to be sure.
- hoppyhoppy2 4y ago
  If you're in the US I'd start with https://www.epa.gov/dwlabcert/contact-information-certification-programs-and-certified-laboratories-drinking-water https://www.epa.gov/dwlabcert/contact-information-certificat... Clicking on my state brought me to my state's Department of Health website, whose Public Health Laboratory offers a send-in water lead test for $20.
- wombat-man 4y ago
  I know it's pretty unlikely you're in NYC, but in case anyone is: https://www1.nyc.gov/content/leadfree/pages/request-water-test-kit https://www1.nyc.gov/content/leadfree/pages/request-water-te...
elhudy 4y ago
Pnas.org though? Really?
- acuozzo 4y ago
  I laugh every time I see it, but PNAS has been around since 1915. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proceedings_of_the_National_Academy_of_Sciences_of_the_United_States_of_America https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proceedings_of_the_National_Ac...
thriftwy 4y ago
We always talk about how the lead poisoning turns lower middle class into criminals, but I wonder what's the effect on the educated, affluent people who nontheless get the same exposure. I have a pet theory that Yeltsin, Chubais and the like ripped the Soviet state and economy apart out of the lead-induced haze and desire to vandalize, only they had not just a sorry bench to ruin but a whole country.
reducesuffering 4y ago
Lead is actually still astonishingly everywhere: mugs (any color glaze), kids toys, old crystal, brass, stained glass, etc. The particulates still become dust and percolate the air. Reverse osmosis your drinking water costs $200-$300 for a kit. A relative had someone come in with this expensive lead-detector gun and over 3 hours found significant traces on 100 different things in the house. Just be generally suspicious of anything colored manufactured in China or old antiques.
blockwriter 4y ago
I’m guilty of this one, but I do find it ironic that the potential of inadvertent lead consumption becomes a neurotic preoccupation and that neurotic preoccupations are a symptom of lead exposure.

150 points by tokai 4y ago

(2021) Veritasium covers the story behind lead in gasoline in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IV3dnLzthDA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IV3dnLzthDA, it's a really interesting albeit sad video. If I recall correctly, he mentions this study in the video.

maicro 4y ago
And a far more irreverent (NSFW? but very entertaining, and moderately informational) video about the inventor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4og8wG8VQWM&list=PL96C35uN7xGIo2odDuuPeYtb7BtQ1kBhp&index=26 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4og8wG8VQWM&list=PL96C35uN7x...
slowmovintarget 4y ago
The same story is covered in an episode of the newer run of Cosmos; S2E7. I thought the coverage there was better. Brief overview here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yV__MkDqqo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yV__MkDqqo (it ends up being an ad for the show, but good summary, nevertheless).

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

jjazwiecki 4y ago

[flagged]

fallingfrog 4y ago
I had the same thought, but I feel a bit uncomfortable saying it without evidence. It's hard to say really, there could be other factors involved. I do know many boomers who are really good people, sensitive and intelligent.
stainablesteel 4y ago
the entire world was on lead, some places worse than the us, and it's been a commonly recurring thing in the past couple thousand years of human history due to its use it seems to disagree with the microplastics that the kids are taking now
Clubber 4y ago
>No wonder so many of them love politicians who preach lower conscientiousness, lower agreeableness, and higher neuroticism as a political philosophy. Do you honestly believe GenX and Millennial politicians will be any different without some drastic change? When your generation produces the exact same corrupt politicians, maybe you will blame the actual political class who lies to get into office and breaks promises while enriching themselves at the expense of the taxpayer, instead of scapegoating a generation of people.
- InitialLastName 4y ago
  From recent experience, the non-"political class" politicians don't seem to be that much better about enriching themselves in office.
theferalrobot 4y ago
> preach lower conscientiousness, lower agreeableness How conscientious and agreeable of you
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

SemanticStrengh 4y ago

I wonder what the effect of chelation (EDTA) has on personality then.

mataug 4y ago
> Chelation therapy is of limited value for cases of chronic exposure to low levels of lead https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoning#Treatment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoning#Treatment
- SemanticStrengh 4y ago
  It's probably dumb overconservatism, the issue with chelators is that they are often rushed. You can distill low amounts of edta for a longer duration in order to reduce toxicity. Also the following deficits (e.g in zinc) should be supplemented obviously. Moreover there are underused synergies https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21649453/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21649453/

munk-a 4y ago

Just to make sure everyone is aware - this isn't a solved issue of the past. Airplanes continue to use leaded gasoline that, while much smaller relative to everyone's car running on it, contributes to higher than healthy lead in our environment.

Sakos 4y ago
In a way that results in higher (or even similar?) exposure to lead compared to when everybody had cars running on it? For your average person? I'm gonna need hard numbers for that. Okay, for the people who can't read between the lines and just resort to downvoting instead of actually being useful in a conversation. 1) The article is about childhood lead exposure on adult personalities. 2) He makes a comment about aviation and its current use of leaded gasoline ("contributes to higher than healthy lead in our environment") with the warning "this isn't a solved issue of the past". 3) This implies that the aviation industry and its use of leaded gas is in any way comparable to what we had before when everybody had daily contact with leaded gas. 4) Nobody has yet provided any evidence of the fact that aviation results in any appreciable exposure to lead for your average citizen. 5) This matters because the original article is not about environmental impact. It's about childhood exposure. How is this so hard? I seriously question the ability of your average HNer to make logical deductions.
- throwaway0a5e 4y ago
  No, not even close. To portray otherwise is right up there with the people screeching about radiation exposure on the order of spending a day working outside. The lead exposure as a result of stuff your daily life (which is mostly a reflection of the history of where you live and work) contributes far more than avgas in the atmosphere. Unless you live downwind of a busy GA airport and have managed to get all other
- dEnigma 4y ago
  No, of course not. But that's also not what OP claimed.
- wlesieutre 4y ago

CalRobert 4y ago

In time, I wonder if lead gas in the US will be written about like lead pipes in Rome.

fallingfrog 4y ago
Almost certainly. In fact our problem may be significantly worse. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/oa.3001 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/oa.3001 In particular look at this graphic: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/cms/asset/ca143408-881b-4b17-b046-d6425849adfa/oa3001-fig-0001-m.jpg https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/cms/asset/ca143408-881b-4b17...
UI_at_80x24 4y ago
We haven't even learned the lesson of lead in our pipes yet. Sure we shouldn't use it, but my house still has lead pipes running from the street upto the house. SlumLord refuses to do anything about it, and threatens to sell if we "make a big deal about it". Flint MI, is still suffering with lead pipes too. Yes, I hope we are ridiculed for our use of lead in gasoline & pipes. But the real outrage is how these criminal CONTINUE to get away with it.
- BitwiseFool 4y ago
  Wouldn't threatening to sell involve having to disclose he's got lead pipes and lead to a need for remediation?
  - UI_at_80x24 4y ago
    Unfortunately not in my jurisdiction. The "lead pipes" disclosure is for `inside the house` plumbing. He's a slumlord, even if it was a requirement he wouldn't do it.
Melatonic 4y ago
Supposedly many lead pipes actually when even somewhat older will be coated on the inside with crap that prevents most lead exposure. New pipes for sure sound like a problem

wonderwonder 4y ago

Imagine what the lifelong prospects for the Flint kids are going to be. Baltimore, Chicago, Detroit, Milwaukee, Newark, New York, Pittsburgh, Washington, D.C all have high lead levels in their drinking water. These cities are often associated with minority violence but what if its all a direct result of high lead levels and the cities / states failing the vulnerable people that live there.

refurb 4y ago
Blood lead levels of Flint kids were barely elevated during the crisis and far lower than levels from earlier years. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30871386/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30871386/ "Conclusion: Analyses of GM and percentages ≥5.0 μg/dL of BLLs do not support the occurrence of a global increase in BLLs in young children of Flint during the entire 18-month period of FRW exposure."

dr_dshiv 4y ago

Anyone else curious about whether their spouse might have been exposed to lead?

andi999 4y ago

The insane thing is that this has been known for a long time. Bavaria banned lead pipes in 1878 (not a typo).

anyfoo 4y ago
I'm from Bavaria, and I was absolutely furious when I learned a few months ago that, living in San Francisco now, there is a real chance of lead exposure through pipes and paints. Our house was built in the 50s, so that increased those chances. And California has one of the better regulations. Even so called "lead free" pipes were allowed to have significant lead content just a few decades ago! What you can do is, for $75 per faucet, get your water sampled and tested by the SF water department. We did that and got back the result that there was no lead in measurable quantities. This was a great relief. Our house looks fairly renovated, so they seem to have gotten rid of those pipes, too. This is the kind of thing that you just don't think about when moving to the US.
- daydream 4y ago
  It is worth mentioning that it’s straightforward to get paint tested for lead content too. Here in an older part of the US there are many companies that do testing. It costs a couple hundred dollars for a typical single family house and you can see the results immediately. Anyone in a house in the US built before the late 1970’s or so that has children should consider it.
  - anyfoo 4y ago
    Thanks, we will do that. My wife thinks it's unlikely since we have no flaking paint anywhere, the windows are fairly new etc., but I think it's worth the peace of mind.
    - bcrosby95 4y ago
      Focus on the wear spots, like door jams and window sills. Lead paint is fine as long as you keep it in good condition, but its hard to keep it in good condition if parts are rubbing against eachother. Also, the standard for contractors is to assume your paint has lead in it if the house was built before the late '70s. Even testing a whole house for lead paint is extremely expensive, and there's no central registry of lead results, so you're gonna have to test over, and over, and over. For water, just to add some extra safety, we installed a reverse osmosis water filter system for our refrigerator hookup, and removed the standard refrigerator one.

DoreenMichele 4y ago

Blood Lead Levels in early childhood are also predictive of stunting, a serious developmental disorder with lifelong consequences that include immune function issues. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31031640 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31031640

Melatonic 4y ago

Does anybody know of a good and affordable way to test lead in water levels? I want to test my tap water at various times and spouts (hot, cold, shower, etc) but all of the at home kits seem to be focused on testing lead paint and physical/dry items vs water testing. Or if I need to send results in to a lab are there any affordable ones out there that are recommended?

burnout1540 4y ago
Check out gosimplelab.com
derbOac 4y ago
I've done this but it was with local labs. Depending where you are, there might be some in your area.
CalRobert 4y ago
I can't speak to how rigorous they are but searching Amazon for "water test kit" shows a lot of results. I used some to test my own water for lead, pesticides, etc. Though I'd want a lab test to be sure.
hoppyhoppy2 4y ago
If you're in the US I'd start with https://www.epa.gov/dwlabcert/contact-information-certification-programs-and-certified-laboratories-drinking-water https://www.epa.gov/dwlabcert/contact-information-certificat... Clicking on my state brought me to my state's Department of Health website, whose Public Health Laboratory offers a send-in water lead test for $20.
wombat-man 4y ago
I know it's pretty unlikely you're in NYC, but in case anyone is: https://www1.nyc.gov/content/leadfree/pages/request-water-test-kit https://www1.nyc.gov/content/leadfree/pages/request-water-te...

elhudy 4y ago

Pnas.org though? Really?

acuozzo 4y ago
I laugh every time I see it, but PNAS has been around since 1915. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proceedings_of_the_National_Academy_of_Sciences_of_the_United_States_of_America https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proceedings_of_the_National_Ac...

thriftwy 4y ago

We always talk about how the lead poisoning turns lower middle class into criminals, but I wonder what's the effect on the educated, affluent people who nontheless get the same exposure. I have a pet theory that Yeltsin, Chubais and the like ripped the Soviet state and economy apart out of the lead-induced haze and desire to vandalize, only they had not just a sorry bench to ruin but a whole country.

reducesuffering 4y ago

Lead is actually still astonishingly everywhere: mugs (any color glaze), kids toys, old crystal, brass, stained glass, etc. The particulates still become dust and percolate the air. Reverse osmosis your drinking water costs $200-$300 for a kit. A relative had someone come in with this expensive lead-detector gun and over 3 hours found significant traces on 100 different things in the house. Just be generally suspicious of anything colored manufactured in China or old antiques.

blockwriter 4y ago

I’m guilty of this one, but I do find it ironic that the potential of inadvertent lead consumption becomes a neurotic preoccupation and that neurotic preoccupations are a symptom of lead exposure.