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I’ve tried to encourage my wife to choose video games over Disney+ when she needs to drop the kids in front of something, but she still has a strong resistance

• trelane 4y ago
  Games are designed to be addictive, so restraint is a good option. So is television, though, so limiting both is a good policy. I would guess that games' interactivity and personalization lead to much more opportunities for deeper addiction, though (see e.g loot boxes.)
  • christophilus 4y ago
    Yeah. We only let them play offline games that aren't gotcha. The current playlist is Journey, Zelda, Mario, Tunic, Death's Door.
  • Mandelmus 4y ago
    >Games are designed to be addictive It depends strongly on kind of game, and especially on the business model involved. Gacha games, free-to-play, and similar models are very much optimised around addictiveness. Personally I've found that story-based finite games, i.e. the ones you play through and then you've experienced it, are much better in those respects. Unfortunately those seem to become much more rare these days.
    • thr0wawayf00 4y ago
      > i.e. the ones you play through and then you've experienced it, are much better in those respects. This has not been my experience at all. It's very easy for me to play a few rounds of rocket league and keep my daily game time to under an hour. When I play stuff like Zelda BOTW though, I have to use the parental controls on myself or else I'll spend half of my day on it.
      • Spooky23 4y ago
        In my observation, the platform matters. The iPad has a noticeable negative impact on my kids mood in ~15 minutes, and I’ve observed similar behavior with other tablets and other kids. The PlayStation doesn’t seem to do that, although my son gets in trouble more often when it’s time to end because there is a higher level of effort to get out. But it doesn’t seem to zombify him.
      • FeepingCreature 4y ago
        Short-term addictive, long-term harmless. Like traditional media.
      • Peku 4y ago
        I think BOTW, while it has a beginning and ending, is much more open than some other games where you're on a structured path. However I think it speaks that everyone has a different approach and solution to how they play games. It then becomes interesting to see what they play and how they limit their self.
  • loudmax 4y ago
    Limiting both is a good policy, but understanding the different games is also an important aspect here. When my kids were in elementary school I encouraged them to play Minecraft and I played with them. I didn't prevent them from playing Clash of Clans because so many of their friends were playing, but I made sure they understood how incentives were structured and how the game was designed around that. That was ten years ago, and I still don't know if I struck the right balance. Parenting is hard. If you have young kids today it's a good idea to understand what games are popular and what their business models are.
  • throwoutway 4y ago
    Are old games designed to be addictive? The original NES and Sega games? Like Mario Bros, etc? I think more recent games added the addictive components
    • bena 4y ago
      They may not be as refined, or they may not have been mistaken at what qualities were addictive, but they were designed to be addictive. Of course, the incentives were also a little different. Old arcade, for example, games wanted you to drop in more quarters. So they had to find ways to make you lose. But not just lose, lose when you're just close enough to the next level.
    • moduspol 4y ago
      Old games were designed similarly to arcade games, where the "true" goal was to get you to keep inserting coins. Then there was kind of a slow transition away from that, but they still relied heavily on the player spending a lot of time replaying prior levels to get to the harder (final) ones due to the limited amount of content. IMO it was addictive, but only to certain personality types. Mine is definitely one of them. Others would see a difficulty spike and/or the amount of re-treading they need to do to make progress as a deterrent. Recent games are more addictive in a way that appeals more widely.
      • JamesSwift 4y ago
        Id disagree that console games were the same as arcade. Arcade often had gimmicks that _required_ more quarters, whereas console encouraged mastery (e.g. learning boss patterns, level layouts, etc). Very few console games would need a game genie to beat, but many arcade games are near impossible with a single quarter. In reality for certain personalities (myself included) that focus on mastery is actually the addictive bit, and I think its a productive addiction all things considered. Im not addicted to the mind-numbing aspect of playing, I'm addicted to the huge amount of knowledge I need to gain in order to succeed. Its the same reason I was drawn to DOTA and Magic later in life.
        • 4y ago
  • usrn 4y ago
    Some games are addictive and some television is garbage. You have to be picky with both. Older Disney films had some great music, animation, and morals. Good video games make you think or build reflexes. If I had a kid they'd have a laptop running Linux with all the open source games (and some of the older Nintendo ones on emulators) and probably a collection of older films on DVD.
• SnowHill9902 4y ago
  Why not neither?
  • christophilus 4y ago
    I don't know about you, but sometimes it's really nice to distract the kids while you relax.
    • NateEag 4y ago
      Forget relaxing - sometimes it's nice to distract the kids so I can, say, cook dinner without them literally hanging off my legs.
      • objektif 4y ago
        I can't even go to the bathroom in peace. How do you guys manage time for yourself??
        • loudmax 4y ago
          Hang in there. Your kids will require less supervision as they grow older. But also the stakes are higher as the potential for emotional turmoil and property damage increase.
        • JamesSwift 4y ago
          Easy, you dont! - Parent of a 2,4,6, and 8 year old
        • NateEag 4y ago
          I mostly don't. I get a few hours after they're in bed and before I go to bed in which to cram cleanup, catching up with my wife, and other bits of essential life maintenance. It does get easier as they age. Our youngest is three, so I have a while before the "hanging off my legs" phase is done, but I can remember the era of newborns, when I could be interrupted at any moment, and I couldn't count on an entire hour to myself at any point during the day or night. (FWIW, a big part of making this work is shifting your mindset to appreciate the little things and recognize how precious they actually are. At this point I cherish being woken up by a wailing toddler and rocking her back to sleep, because I know I won't get many more moments in my life when she's a tiny little bundle snuggled up and cozy against my chest, and it's truly magical when I manage not to be hung up on anger over being woken up at 3 AM.)
• erfgh 4y ago
  The problem is that games are very addictive so in extreme cases they can destroy much more thoroughly than TV can.
  • largbae 4y ago
    This article seems to be saying the opposite, can you share any references?
    • svnt 4y ago
      Just my memory but eg gaming cafes have resulted in numerous deaths from exhaustion (World of Warcraft) while I cannot recall the same ever happening at a soap opera cafe (does this exist?) or sports bar.
  • mcv 4y ago
    Tell that to my son's anime addiction. It's worse than his gaming addiction ever was.
    • npteljes 4y ago
      How old is he and what is he watching? (if you don't mind)
      • mcv 4y ago
        13, and tons of anime. Naruto, Sword Art Online, One Piece, Full Metal Alchemist, and now Seven Deadly Sins.
• mrtksn 4y ago
  I recall, when I was a kid the games were extremely addictive for me and I couldn't just quit playing unless I absolutely have to. I had emotionally very similar experience when quitting smoking, the feeling that if I just can have this one more smoke I will be satisfied and live happily thereafter is very similar to the desire to have one more round. So I wouldn't call games "not addictive". If anything, watching something on TV is often less adictive because you are told a story with its introduction, climax and ending(up until the Netflix ruined everything with it's endless shovelware). IMHO, the key is moderation. A day with diverse activities is a day well spent, kid or adult. Today, if I play Sid Meier's Civilization, a day or two would be completely gone and I will be disconnected from the reality and I will need to re-adapt to the real world. I suspect, excessive gamings primary risk is developing unhealthy understanding of the world in the area where the game simulates the real thing.
  • deepGem 4y ago
    Borrowing shovelware. This is gold Jerry!
    • cestith 4y ago
      That's a somewhat popular term already. It was especially useful in the days of shareware/careware and close-source freeware distributed largely on CD or dial-up BBSes. You'd buy a CD with 650 MB of content, and depending on the publisher it might be 1/4 or 9/10 just crap.
  • bamboozled 4y ago
    What about neither TV or computer games and doing things outside like fishing, hiking, scouts, riding bikes etc ?
    • psiops 4y ago
      Way too dangerous! Injury, skin cancer, pedophiles, drugs, terrorists, need I go on?
      • 4y ago
• brightball 4y ago
  Nintendo games on a console that don’t need an internet connection or include advertising. These have been the best combination for our kids where they have fun but aren’t addicted and can easily put them down. The moment games include advertising they optimize for all the wrong things. I won’t let my kids get free games on iPad, etc for this reason alone.
  • Peku 4y ago
    Agreed. The constant dopamine hit with sounds and flashing colors set a horrible precedence. It's bad enough television advertisements hit all the right spots, now video games are a minefield their selves.
  • isolli 4y ago
    My daughter is transitioning from children's games to pre-teen games, and I can't find a single acceptable game on the tablet. Until now I hadn't realized how sensible Apple's rules around children's games had been, notably: no internet connection required, and no ads.
    • whatusername 4y ago
      Have a look at Apple Arcade.
    • dfxm12 4y ago
      Regardless of ads or Internet connectivity requirements, I can find hardly any acceptable games on phones/tablets, in mobile app stores. If you want to play games on the go, I suggest a proper videogame console, like a 3DS.
      • isolli 4y ago
        I agree, and thanks for the advice. However, as another commenter pointed out, I believe the lack of good games in mobile app stores is a direct consequence of the economic model, driven by ads and internet connectivity.
    • 4y ago
• idontwantthis 4y ago
  Some games are incredibly addictive though. Roblox for example can completely take over a kid’s mind.
  • micromacrofoot 4y ago
    Yeah surprised no one else here mentioned Roblox, they seem to be flying under a lot of people's radar but they're a completely terrible company.
    • idontwantthis 4y ago
      It’s the only thing I have permanently banned and blocked inside and (as well as I can) outside my home.
• odessacubbage 4y ago
  games are such a personal experience that is simply much easier to talk about them at length. i also think that even if you are very blackpilled about the dark patterns at work in many modern games, it is still very easy to appreciate the value of something like the logical journey of the zoombinis https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eePTsHpp1eI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eePTsHpp1eI, sam and max: hit the road https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yWnnk9fyJE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yWnnk9fyJE, or the zachtronics games https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o99hbZy8CuE&list=PLdg60-UktzB7_p9yx3TRWofww_xssXip4&index=1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o99hbZy8CuE&list=PLdg60-Uktz... in what may be somewhat more of a hot take, i would argue that there is an incredible amount of educational value to be found even within the most meritless garbage games as they are still fundamentally systems to be dissected and solved and learning the maximally efficient way to do something worthless is a skillset that transfers quite handily to the valuable things in life. also unlike tv, games have a lot of potential to be immensely collaborative [or competitive] and social. some of my fondest childhood memories were going to my friend's house and co-oping diablo with one of us controlling the mouse and the other controlling the keyboard. there are many far less ad-hoc ways for kids to share games and even singleplayer is a highly rewarding shared experience.
• watwut 4y ago
  Very very honestly, my experience with people who watch Disney too much is much much better then with excessive gamers. Only one of those groups yells, swears and is vent their anger at people around when they loose the match. For the record, my kids do play games, I never did complete ban. But, the gaming does not seem to be superior, does not zombify them less nor leads to more inventive play after session finished.
  • BlargMcLarg 4y ago
    Because competitive games are a cesspit. Even games with highly competitive PvE aspects have this problem (MMOs, most notably). Ironically, those are also the games which allow for the highest time investment for the common player. Mostly because everyone is online and anonymous, which subsequently keeps their filters from activating. By comparison, I've never had a local game of Mario Party remotely as heated as the average experience in a competitive, online game. Not even after Chance Time did the unthinkable. The downsides of Disney are a little more subtle, too.
    • colinmhayes 4y ago
      The one thing everyone who plays a competitive game has in common is wishing they played less. Part of it is definitely self selection, people who aren't competitive never start playing these games
  • slothtrop 4y ago
    You might as well lambast sports on the conceit that kids might swear and get angry for losing.
    • svnt 4y ago
      Not the same. Sports have refs, coaches, and parents. Yes it is possible to get a bad outcome in sports but there is no container in competitive online gaming. It is Lord of the Flies by design.
      • 4y ago
• tiahura 4y ago
  I agree. My 4 year old loves Fortnite. Reasoning through combat strategy, even in the age-inappropriate context of gun battles, exercises higher level thinking that clearly remains off when watching Ryan’s world. To be fair, the article does say watching videos had a positive effect as well.
  • asdff 4y ago
    The people handwringing about combat games have obviously never played them and their complaints reflect that. War is brutal, violence is terrible, and when you hear that there is some army game where you shoot people, you naturally think thats terrible, and I don't blame them for thinking that from their gut. But its nothing like the experience of being in an army and shooting people and dealing with that of course. You are playing capture the flag or something like that; team deathmatches are kinda like a basketball game racking up as much points as you can in the time period. No one actually dies, they respawn in five seconds and try again. Its basically just a game of electronic dodge ball or tag, or even basketball if you squint. campaign shooting games feel like those carnival shooting games with the flashing lights and point values for different targets, especially games like call of duty where its just march through the campaign and rack up points for different levels. That's all they really are when you remove the theming and look at the actual mechanics of the game. the mechanics aren't screwed up or morally bankrupt or anything like that, they are the same games we've always played of racking up points or moving an object across a playing field or something like that. It's probably the reason why the fps formula is so successful, it plays almost like the games we already like kinda like basketball (with deathmatch) or football/soccer (with capture the flag or assault style gamemodes moving some object offensively or defending as a team).
• sandos 4y ago
  As others have said, highly dependent on the game. My kids playing minecraft together on the TV? I have no trouble at all with that. Them sitting, like zombies, playing shovelware android games? I am likely to shout at them to go out and play when that happens.
  • pbhjpbhj 4y ago
    Minecraft together on the TV? Single screen co-op mode? What platform is that on?
• bluefirebrand 4y ago
  > I think my wife’s biggest hang up with games is that she was always told that they rot your brain People used to say that about TV too. I always feel a bit personally attacked when people claim videogames are just bad for you full stop. I'm really passionate about games, I grew up playing NES, and just never stopped. I almost always have a new game waiting to play for when I'm finished with what I'm currently playing. Sample size of one, but I don't think my brain is rotten. I have a pretty successful career in software, I have a close partner, I have a social life. I have other hobbies too, but it's my main one. Don't get me wrong, I know my gaming takes time away from other stuff I could/should be doing, like building side projects or getting enough exercise. But TV does the same, so in a choice between the two I pick gaming any day
• lemmiwinks 4y ago
  Why are you trying to fight over what is the best for your kids? Both have obvious benefits: Grimm Brothers tales are still culturally relevant for a reason, even if you can probably find useless brain fodder on Disney+; and video games can totally teach some stuff to your kids. Just let them choose what they want I guess?
• legitster 4y ago
  I definitely feel games have made me more intelligent, but at the cost of my attention span and work ethic.
  • svnt 4y ago
    Also can we talk about the hoarding instinct that develops? I always max out my inventory, ie my basement. Just in case I need to craft or sell something, which I almost never do.
• mariocesar 4y ago
  Games and Watching Videos are two different dopamine rewards systems, but both are still dopamine rewards systems. I encourage my kid for games more than watching youtube or doing anything less challenging. However, I still worry about when the stubbornness of leaving the games appear. One rule I made to myself is simply don't encourage anything just for dopamine rewards. I try to mix things with effort, contemplation, or interaction. Doing something like this specific rule: No more than 1h playing Minecraft alone. If you want to keep playing, ask Dad, Mom, or your cousins to play together; the same for Watching videos.
• em500 4y ago
  > To me, it’s pretty obvious. The kids problem solve when gaming, and are obviously engaged. When watching TV, they look like zombies. Are you not just seeing what you want to see? Maybe from your wife's perspective, the kids are carefully to observing and learning a wide range of human emotions, social dynamics, new idioms and music from Disney+, whereas in their games they're learning a few tricks that they repeat ad nauseam to get some trivial rewards from their digital Skinner boxes?
  • ip26 4y ago
    Amen, my preschooler got a lot out of watching (quality) shows, learning about conflict resolution, expressing & communicating, and so on. Learning to relate with complex emotions that characters were experiencing was a big cognitive milestone.