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Pirate Site Blocking Is Making Its Way into Free Trade Agreements
- TimPC 4y agoWe could use this a vehicle for banning all cryptocurrency transactions. Just require all transactions in all currencies meet certain industry standard financial regulations and provide injunctive relief if transactions occur that don’t.
- realce 4y agoHard to say if you're actually in favor of this or not, but this is exactly the endgame strategy for any protocols that provide an alternative to the Empire's approved ones. Nobody should be in favor of these things imo.
- TimPC 4y agoI’m in favour of not burning more power that the country of Argentina for a coin who’s primary historical purposes have been speculation and the facilitating of illegal transactions. I also think it’s a hard problem to solve short of banning given the large numbers of rampant speculators.
- yossarian1408 4y agoYou are referring to the US dollar correct?
- ekianjo 4y agoCreating and moving cash also requires power and can be used for illegal transactions.
- TimPC 4y agoIt’s almost like we created a system of rules for moving cash and made certain behaviours with it illegal due to some of the problems with this. Imagine that.
- glerk 4y agoAnd who are you to decide what power should or should not be used for? Someone appointed you king of the world? It’s natural to want to impose your will by force and make everything you don’t like illegal. But consider that tomorrow, the roles might be reversed and the boot might be on your neck.
- TimPC 4y agoNo where did I say I wanted to be king of the world. I think our democratically elected institutions can decide such things. My vote would be to do so. I agree that democracy potentially means that things I like may be prohibited. I don’t see that as a good reason to throw out democracy.
- seoaeu 4y agoSociety makes laws to prevent individuals from enrich themselves by harming the public. Committing climate arson so that you can get rich speculating on cryptocurrency is precisely the kind of externality that environmental regulations are designed to prevent
- mindslight 4y agoMuch more energy gets wasted by a high monetary inflation currency like USD, which pushes the economy to create additional busywork churn in the name of "growth".
- glerk 4y ago> Committing climate arson so that you can get rich speculating on cryptocurrency That's such a hyperbolic and frankly disingenuous way of putting it. Any human activity consumes energy to an extent. You are calling it "climate arson" because you personally don't like it, so it is a waste to you. What else should "society" ban because someone thinks it is not useful and harming the environment? Gaming PCs? Meat? Cars?
- shrimp_emoji 4y agoNB: Gaming PCs consume a tiny fraction of the energy of crypto, meat (especially beef), or cars. (I feel compelled to defend my lifestyle from the eco-chopping block.)
- ben_w 4y agoGiven governments use “think of the children” rhetoric against decent cryptography in private communications, combined with the research demonstrating the presence of illegal material inside the Bitcoin blockchain[0], the only reason I’m not surprised cryptocurrency hasn’t been banned already is that legislators aren’t technologists. [0] https://fc18.ifca.ai/preproceedings/6.pdf https://fc18.ifca.ai/preproceedings/6.pdf
- id 4y agoYou might not realize it, but you are giving credibility to decentralized currencies with this comment.
- searchableguy 4y agoIMF is doing that by making countries ban crypto currency industry for providing loan. https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2022/05/05/argentinas-central-bank-bans-lenders-from-offering-crypto-services/ https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2022/05/05/argentinas-centra...
- dane-pgp 4y ago> the services of the ISP are used by a third party to infringe copyright or related rights in the territory of that Party. Given the trouble Google has found itself in over News, Images, and Books search, and YouTube videos, surely ISPs could be injuncted to block Google's domains.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- agilob 4y agoCould UK put some tax avoidance into FTAs?
- rjsw 4y agoI don't think the UK needs any help in providing opportunities for tax avoidance.
- zarriak 4y agoI guess it probably depends upon ones consumption but this strategy seems outdated because nowadays private trackers/groups eg discords seem to make up a much larger share of piracy etc but I guess that’s more hurting all of the people lower on the hierarchy of content creation than the big record labels.
- pooper 4y ago> I guess it probably depends upon ones consumption but this strategy seems outdated because nowadays private trackers/groups eg discords seem to make up a much larger share of piracy etc but I guess that’s more hurting all of the people lower on the hierarchy of content creation than the big record labels. I think a better way when it comes to big record labels is to refuse to listen to or watch their stuff even if you can get it free of cost. Don't give them your time at all.
- Larrikin 4y agoBecause being on a big label suddenly makes the art bad? If I like a song I need to do research and trace it's origin? I don't understand how this is a viable idea nor how it helps
- rolph 4y agoit doesnt make the art intrinsicly bad, but is a yellow brick road to it. almost every body likes fame or fortune, but this leads to demands, to generate product according to the employers specifications, AKA "commercialization"
- Retric 4y agoMusic isn’t a limited commodity, you can boycott effectively unlimited artists without significant cost.
- pbhjpbhj 4y agoCulture is about shared experience, anything that cuts you off from sharing in popular culture has a cost. You might not care, but I think - particularly for children/teens - there is significant cost. Interested in your thoughts on that?
- car_analogy 4y agoA perfect example of how "democracy dies in darkness". They will keep pushing anti-consumer laws through the backdoor of "free trade" agreements, until we stop it by requiring that: Before any international agreement may be ratified, [our country] must pass all the laws needed to comply with that agreement ahead of time, through regular democratic processes.
- mistermann 4y agoAdvocates of democracy would have us believe that this is the will of the people...and if it isn't, we can simply elect different people. It's our most sacred institution, and should be supported as such.
- bitdivision 4y agoThis FTA is between the UK and Australia. I'm under the impression that both the UK and Australia currently have laws allowing them to comply with this agreement, so adding a requirement like this wouldn't change anything here.
- nicoburns 4y ago> adding a requirement like this wouldn't change anything here It does change something. It makes it much harder for that law to be changed in future.
- gpm 4y agoThe requirement they are referring to is > must pass all the laws needed to comply with that agreement ahead of time Which is already met, so it wouldn't change anything.
- sudosysgen 4y agoIf they ever decide to change the laws, they will have to renegotiate the agreement, which is a change.
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- dielll 4y agoI used to pirate lots of music when in University but I stopped because currently all music I listen to is on Spotify which is cheap and costs like $4 in my country, even if it was the full $10 I still wouldn't mind paying for it. However, for movies and TV shows I need to pay for like 5 services to get all the movies and TV shows that I need. No way I am paying all those. SO I will keep pirating Movies and TV shows
- pbhjpbhj 4y agoIf the big media approach were about paying for content creation then surely we'd have regulations requiring that shows be available to any selling platform willing to pay the per user cost. Instead it's about creating fiefdoms to lock up content and hold tv/movie culture hostage. Copyright laws give commercial interests too much power against media consumers. I guess the only way to win is not too play ...
- mattnewton 4y agoI agree, I think that "pirates" are basically made up of three camps; people who would pay if it was convenient, people who would pay if it was cheaper and people who would never pay anyways. I think the first camp is the largest and the only one really worth going after from a business sense. It's what I think Gabe Newell means when he says "Piracy is a Service problem" https://www.eurogamer.net/newell-stop-piracy-by-offering-superior-service#:~:text=%22One%20thing%20that%20we%20have,re%20receiving%20from%20the%20pirates https://www.eurogamer.net/newell-stop-piracy-by-offering-sup....
- pessimizer 4y ago"Free" trade agreements. "Free trade agreement" is a propaganda term anyway, but applying it to agreements that impose intellectual property monopolies is bizarre. https://cepr.net/trade-agreements-that-increase-protectionism-are-not-qfree-tradeq-agreements/ https://cepr.net/trade-agreements-that-increase-protectionis... https://cepr.net/trade-deals-are-about-increasing-protectionist-barriers/ https://cepr.net/trade-deals-are-about-increasing-protection... > It is also important to point out that the liberalization of trade in goods is largely a done deal. Tariffs are already zero or near zero in the vast majority of cases. The potential gains from further liberalization are limited, especially since goods are a rapidly falling share of total output. > Instead, deals like the TPP are largely about locking in rules on items like intellectual property protections and preserving Mark Zuckerberg’s dominance of the Internet. The TPP, like other recent trade deals, calls for longer and stronger patent and copyright monopolies. > These protections are 180 degrees at odds with free trade. They are about shifting more income from the bulk of the population to people who benefit from rents on patents and copyrights, by making them pay more for drugs, medical equipment, software and a wide variety of other items.
- chaostheory 4y agoIt’s not bizarre. It’s the norm to use contradictory names for legal constructs and initiatives as a way to deceive the masses.
- pas 4y agoFTAs are mostly about standard normalizations (food safety, consumer protection, investor-state arbitration, etc) the export of fucked up IP regulations is unfortunate, but since most countries are signatories to the various already existing WIPO regulations... in practice they are already in effect.
- em3rgent0rdr 4y agoMore like "unfree trade".
- ABeeSea 4y agoGood. Lots of communities on the internet try to tie themselves into philosophical knots to justify piracy because they just don’t want to pay for things.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- seaourfreed 4y agoFree Trade Agreements are being made to block free trade.
- czhu12 4y agoI’m not a fan of trying to pass legislation through trade deals, but specifically on the issue of anti-piracy: why shouldn’t content creators have a right to protect their content? Frankly, it seems to me like if a studio wants to show their movie for $1000 dollars, only available on their windows phone app, geogated to just south east Arkansas, they should have every right to do that. I’ve always found the HN crowd really good at separating “what’s good for me” from what’s actually right. What am I missing?
- dmitrygr 4y ago> What am I missing? The obvious collateral damage from creating the technology and legal frameworks to enforce this and their high abuse potential.
- klysm 4y agoI think abuse potential is key here. Having the governments enforce strictly requires a lot of observations and tools that can readily be abused for all kinds of shit.
- czhu12 4y agoSomething being difficult to legislate doesn't absolve the need for legislation. Police are arguably much more destructive and prone to abuse and corruption, but the solution is not to legalize theft. The whole point of legislation is to draw lines along slippery slopes, I would think that the potential for abuse exists in almost every law ever written.
- mjevans 4y agoIn the US at least, the purported intent of copyright is, for a limited time only, 'to promote the progress of science and (useful) arts'. Arts in that context being the output of skilled trades / crafts. The intent is to expand the knowledge of sapient life and promote the spread of said knowledge. Frivolous information isn't intended to be covered, it doesn't have an application that expands (as methods rather than material) the quality of type of things educated people can do. This was also created in an era where even sound recordings didn't exist. Copyright as initially created nearly everywhere, exists in a world where the printing press exists, but is still enough of a pain to work with that books are higher value items for commoners. E.G. this is an era where farmer's almanacs of all the things useful for a farmer in a year get published as a book to improve the skills of a very common job. The duration of copyright has also been abusively extended by... specific entities. In reality such draconian periods should only be possible as a form of consumer protection; as Trade Marks. Copyright with a far more reasonable term length would allow material to enter the public domain within people's lifetimes, and a leading and trailing edge for culture as new ideas are created and then as greater spread and work based on those ideas is integrated into a culture would encourage better entertainment as current works would need to compete with recent classics.
- ratsmack 4y agoCertain pirated content should be blocked, but there is other content that is locked up by profiteers such as scientific papers funded by public money. There is also information concealed by governments of their misdeeds, and whistle blowers need an avenue for safe public disclosure.
- GekkePrutser 4y agoIt's worrying but it's hardly effective anyway. The netherlands blocks many such sites as a result of local lawsuits and people know how to find them anyway. The sites are DNS blocked only so it's trivial to bypass, you don't even need to bother with a VPN.
- alkonaut 4y agoOf course. If the agreements force governments to make it illegal (and actually enforce) sales of e.g. counterfeit handbags in stores, then why wouldn't they contain passages enforcing the same thing for software or other things?
- riskable 4y agoBecause perfect copies of digital goods aren't counterfeits.
- naniwaduni 4y agoA perfect replica of a dollar bill, made with the exact materials and equipment as the real thing, is still a counterfeit. Being a counterfeit isn't a physical property of the object, it's about provenance.
- riskable 4y agoIt's impossible to make a perfect copy of a dollar bill though since it's a physical object. Not even dollar bills are perfect copies of dollar bills. It also doesn't matter where the bill came from: If it's official currency issued by the government then it's worth $1. A digital copy of a video or a song is similar: It doesn't matter where it came from... it's still the same thing. A counterfeit song or video would be a file of the same exact name and maybe even size as the original but doesn't actually contain the song or video. It's annoying AF when you download a counterfeit file but it's not even remotely the same thing as counterfeit goods or currency.
- alkonaut 4y agoSo call them something else. What’s the difference? Microsoft don’t want an official looking store selling windows licenses just like Gucci don’t want it for handbags. In the case of licenses they are usually even “real” licenses just repurposed e.g re-sold from defunct companies. The only thing bad about them is that Microsoft don’t want them sold. Which is understandable as they lose revenue when they are sold.
- NonNefarious 4y ago
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- Jemm 4y agoCanada had software rental that was banned in the NAFTA. A nasty side affect was that opened software could not and still cannot be returned for refund.