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The religious (for a lack of better word as it is a religion to believe that cryptocurrencies are inherently better than other assets (outside NFTs) but they do

The religious (for a lack of better word as it is a religion to believe that cryptocurrencies are inherently better than other assets (outside NFTs) but they do believe that if you read twitter/reddit) people are hodling but all the 'saner' people I know went out in december. There was enough writing on the wall to know that 2022 would not be a good year for some assets (and it's just beginning). Only the real believers are still holding and it's a drama; a friend of mine went 'all in' on Terra and is staunchly 'hodling' because he believes it's the greatest project in finance since humans invented currencies. He has 30+ years work of money in it which is his families money (his brothers and parents gave him their savings to 'invest') etc. But he is not depressed; he firmly believes it is coming back as it's decentralized. There are many of him. MANY. I mean there are also other stories; an acquaintance (he invested in my business with cash in 2018) got out end 2017 with around 60m$ in cash; he was a waiter making minimum wage who borrowed 50k$ from his family who remortgaged their house (not rich people but at least house owners) in 2014 and gambled his families future and accidentally (he was a real believer, but the 'business scams' around blockchain made him a non-believer) gambled right. It's a weird casino. Maybe it is my circle (but I read it on reddit all the time the past 10 years though) but the financially illiterate seem far more likely to 'invest' with borrowed money, do not diversify and put 'everything on red'/all-in kind of thing and then don't know what to do when that goes wrong (lie to their spouses and kids about it). An senior sales guy of my (then) company invested ALL his money and borrowed more (totaling many millions) in a Dutch web stock (worldonline) and lost everything; his wife, son, house, cars; basically life.

Animats 4y ago
There are many of him. MANY. See Reddit's "apecoin" subreddit, which had two suicide threats yesterday.
- nradov 4y ago
  Don't believe stories you read on Reddit. Most of them are creative writing exercises.
- tluyben2 4y ago
  Well, if your 'advisors' (usually indicated in reddit/twitter as people 'much smarter than me' by which they mean devs who work on blockchain projects and 'financial gurus' who post a lot of charts with arrows pointing 'in the right direction' (which wasn't hard the past few years as it was generally just 'up' unless Musk posted something)) say it's a sure thing and suddenly you are at the start of a recession with massive inflation and your entire savings wiped out... It is hard to blame them; saying 'it is only money' works when you have money. Luckily there is quite a bit of help and helplines to talk them down.
spupe 4y ago
Yeah, this is the dark side of all this "diamond hands", "to the moon" bullshit. A handful of winners, a majority of losers, and some people going complete bankrupt because they are foolish.
- arinlen 4y ago
  > Yeah, this is the dark side of all this "diamond hands", "to the moon" bullshit. Also known as "please continue holding the bag".
hnbad 4y ago
You're perfectly describing the sunk cost fallacy. The naifs who overcomitted on a "guaranteed win" investment can't walk back from it because that would mean giving up on a lot (e.g. 50% or more) of their investments, which often as you said isn't money they really had "lying around" (even your retirement fund isn't really disposable once you actually need to retire on it). The failure to achieve the promised growth paradoxically converts them into true believers because they see no way out without admitting they ruined their lives. A lot of crypto grifters (and even mainstream celebrities) have been actively encouraging these people to sink literally all their capital in coins or NFTs with unrealistic promises and FOMO. They did this because they knew it would work and drive up prices enough for them to be able to cash out by dumping their worthless void money on the unwashed masses.
- arinlen 4y ago
  > You're perfectly describing the sunk cost fallacy. Sounds like a classical pump-and-dump scheme.
- Spooky23 4y ago
  I think the prevalence and scale of criminal activity through crypto was under appreciated in the mainstream. Let’s be real, much of the market activity is money laundering, ransomware and other payoffs, and Chinese people bypassing currency controls. It’s no coincidence that China cracked down on miners and the price dropped a few months ago. It’s plain as day now that with Russia being removed from the internet and most markets, buy-side demand for crypto is sinking.
  - prox 4y ago
    It wasn’t so long ago we had some fans of crypto on HN, lots of stories how this or that scheme was going to work. First movers want to sound and convince others they are right and “now” is the right time to step in. Most of it can be debunked if you had a good economy course that tells you how value is created.
    - Spooky23 4y ago
moritonal 4y ago
My issue is that these people are smart, but not "I work at Blackrock as a day-trader smart". In Finance, there are laws against a lot of the easy wins, and now the professionals are entering the Crypto space they're going to run circles around the amateurs. As in, it's easy to be the best in your local club, but it's a real wake-up call when you try out at a regional.
- tluyben2 4y ago
  Still, 'smart' is usually not buying at ATH (even a local high) or not having a stop loss if you don't have time to stare at your screen all day and night. I don't know how many people 'woke up' to a 90% dump in terra and were too late to act; that's not smart and you don't have to be blackrock smart for that. This is not exclusive to cryptocurrencies of course; I don't have any, but I do trade other more traditional assets as total amateur. But yes, I agree with you; they will be taking most the winnings because it's their job. That doesn't mean you cannot make money as an amateur. The real naive people can just send their money directly to the Blackrock bank account; saves a lot of stress.
  - kravvall 4y ago
    I completely get your point, and you're correct, but there are layers to it, especially in crypto. And I guess that means layers of fishy stuff. If your luna stop loss was done in UST, you are also effed, even if you took the precaution of stop loss, because the "stable"coin dipped. Not saying that this was "safe" to do, but there are surely people out there who did this and got screwed, and I guess that would feel terrible.
    - tluyben2 4y ago
      > and I guess that would feel terrible. Absolutely; there are proud whales saying they lost millions and laughing (not sure why) but I am very sorry for the people who lost a few k$ and now are in deep shit because they didn’t understand what they were doing. The ‘how can this be; I will get my money back right?’ type of thing.
- 4y ago
lode 4y ago
> it is a religion to believe that cryptocurrencies are inherently better than other assets (outside NFTs) Why would NFTs be worth anything more than the digital tulip bulbs of cryptocurrencies? NFTs are just as worthless IMHO.
- alexdbird 4y ago
  I believe they're saying that cryptocurrencies aren't inherently better than most assets - but NFTs are such inane garbage that you could argue cryptocurrencies are 'better'. Very much damning with faint praise.
- brazzy 4y ago
  Sidenote: the actual tulip bulbs were far less silly. They were a productive investment. You could plant them to make more bulbs.
  - geogra4 4y ago
    You can stake crypto to make more crypto too!
    - brazzy 4y ago
      Fair point - but you can't stake NFTs, can you?
      - vrc 4y ago
        If not, somebody is feverishly writing an ERP now
      - cinntaile 4y ago
        Their selling price is on the blockchain, there is no practical reason why you can't. Valueing them might be a bit tricky though.
    - MereInterest 4y ago
      I can use my Monopoly money to get more Monopoly money, too.
arcticbull 4y ago
> The religious (for a lack of better word as it is a religion to believe that cryptocurrencies are inherently better than other assets (outside NFTs) ... Outside NFTs? C'mon. Signed JSON blobs with a URL you pay for? All equally worthless. Let's not "my god is better than your god" this.
- tluyben2 4y ago
  That's not what I meant; I meant 'they' believe cryptocurrencies are better than other assets (outside NFTs) as in; they ALSO believe those are better than other assets. I wasn't saying NFTs are better; I was actually saying (well meant to say) they are equally superior in 'their' belief.
  - arcticbull 4y ago
    Ahhh I misread that, I apologize. Thanks for the clarification.
7952 4y ago
I think religion is exactly the right word. Humans build story's and meaning around otherwise innocuous things. And that didn't just stop with the rise of the secular world.
cercatrova 4y ago
I have a hard time feeling sorry for these people. Sure, they may have gambling tendencies, but at some point, one must reckon with the consequences of their actions, and reap what they sow.
- lottin 4y ago
  Not to mention that many of these supposed victims are arrogant assholes, whom I and others tried to warn in every possible way and we only got mockery and disdain in return.
  - cinntaile 4y ago
    It doesn't mean many of them are like that because you have dealt with some arrogant assholes. You dealt with a vocal group and that is usually a tiny minority.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

Animats 4y ago

There are many of him. MANY. See Reddit's "apecoin" subreddit, which had two suicide threats yesterday.

nradov 4y ago
Don't believe stories you read on Reddit. Most of them are creative writing exercises.
tluyben2 4y ago
Well, if your 'advisors' (usually indicated in reddit/twitter as people 'much smarter than me' by which they mean devs who work on blockchain projects and 'financial gurus' who post a lot of charts with arrows pointing 'in the right direction' (which wasn't hard the past few years as it was generally just 'up' unless Musk posted something)) say it's a sure thing and suddenly you are at the start of a recession with massive inflation and your entire savings wiped out... It is hard to blame them; saying 'it is only money' works when you have money. Luckily there is quite a bit of help and helplines to talk them down.

spupe 4y ago

Yeah, this is the dark side of all this "diamond hands", "to the moon" bullshit. A handful of winners, a majority of losers, and some people going complete bankrupt because they are foolish.

arinlen 4y ago
> Yeah, this is the dark side of all this "diamond hands", "to the moon" bullshit. Also known as "please continue holding the bag".

hnbad 4y ago

You're perfectly describing the sunk cost fallacy. The naifs who overcomitted on a "guaranteed win" investment can't walk back from it because that would mean giving up on a lot (e.g. 50% or more) of their investments, which often as you said isn't money they really had "lying around" (even your retirement fund isn't really disposable once you actually need to retire on it). The failure to achieve the promised growth paradoxically converts them into true believers because they see no way out without admitting they ruined their lives. A lot of crypto grifters (and even mainstream celebrities) have been actively encouraging these people to sink literally all their capital in coins or NFTs with unrealistic promises and FOMO. They did this because they knew it would work and drive up prices enough for them to be able to cash out by dumping their worthless void money on the unwashed masses.

arinlen 4y ago
> You're perfectly describing the sunk cost fallacy. Sounds like a classical pump-and-dump scheme.
Spooky23 4y ago
I think the prevalence and scale of criminal activity through crypto was under appreciated in the mainstream. Let’s be real, much of the market activity is money laundering, ransomware and other payoffs, and Chinese people bypassing currency controls. It’s no coincidence that China cracked down on miners and the price dropped a few months ago. It’s plain as day now that with Russia being removed from the internet and most markets, buy-side demand for crypto is sinking.
- prox 4y ago
  It wasn’t so long ago we had some fans of crypto on HN, lots of stories how this or that scheme was going to work. First movers want to sound and convince others they are right and “now” is the right time to step in. Most of it can be debunked if you had a good economy course that tells you how value is created.
  - Spooky23 4y ago

moritonal 4y ago

My issue is that these people are smart, but not "I work at Blackrock as a day-trader smart". In Finance, there are laws against a lot of the easy wins, and now the professionals are entering the Crypto space they're going to run circles around the amateurs. As in, it's easy to be the best in your local club, but it's a real wake-up call when you try out at a regional.

tluyben2 4y ago
Still, 'smart' is usually not buying at ATH (even a local high) or not having a stop loss if you don't have time to stare at your screen all day and night. I don't know how many people 'woke up' to a 90% dump in terra and were too late to act; that's not smart and you don't have to be blackrock smart for that. This is not exclusive to cryptocurrencies of course; I don't have any, but I do trade other more traditional assets as total amateur. But yes, I agree with you; they will be taking most the winnings because it's their job. That doesn't mean you cannot make money as an amateur. The real naive people can just send their money directly to the Blackrock bank account; saves a lot of stress.
- kravvall 4y ago
  I completely get your point, and you're correct, but there are layers to it, especially in crypto. And I guess that means layers of fishy stuff. If your luna stop loss was done in UST, you are also effed, even if you took the precaution of stop loss, because the "stable"coin dipped. Not saying that this was "safe" to do, but there are surely people out there who did this and got screwed, and I guess that would feel terrible.
  - tluyben2 4y ago
    > and I guess that would feel terrible. Absolutely; there are proud whales saying they lost millions and laughing (not sure why) but I am very sorry for the people who lost a few k$ and now are in deep shit because they didn’t understand what they were doing. The ‘how can this be; I will get my money back right?’ type of thing.
4y ago

lode 4y ago

> it is a religion to believe that cryptocurrencies are inherently better than other assets (outside NFTs) Why would NFTs be worth anything more than the digital tulip bulbs of cryptocurrencies? NFTs are just as worthless IMHO.

alexdbird 4y ago
I believe they're saying that cryptocurrencies aren't inherently better than most assets - but NFTs are such inane garbage that you could argue cryptocurrencies are 'better'. Very much damning with faint praise.
brazzy 4y ago
Sidenote: the actual tulip bulbs were far less silly. They were a productive investment. You could plant them to make more bulbs.
- geogra4 4y ago
  You can stake crypto to make more crypto too!
  - brazzy 4y ago
    Fair point - but you can't stake NFTs, can you?
    - vrc 4y ago
      If not, somebody is feverishly writing an ERP now
    - cinntaile 4y ago
      Their selling price is on the blockchain, there is no practical reason why you can't. Valueing them might be a bit tricky though.
  - MereInterest 4y ago
    I can use my Monopoly money to get more Monopoly money, too.

arcticbull 4y ago

> The religious (for a lack of better word as it is a religion to believe that cryptocurrencies are inherently better than other assets (outside NFTs) ... Outside NFTs? C'mon. Signed JSON blobs with a URL you pay for? All equally worthless. Let's not "my god is better than your god" this.

tluyben2 4y ago
That's not what I meant; I meant 'they' believe cryptocurrencies are better than other assets (outside NFTs) as in; they ALSO believe those are better than other assets. I wasn't saying NFTs are better; I was actually saying (well meant to say) they are equally superior in 'their' belief.
- arcticbull 4y ago
  Ahhh I misread that, I apologize. Thanks for the clarification.

7952 4y ago

I think religion is exactly the right word. Humans build story's and meaning around otherwise innocuous things. And that didn't just stop with the rise of the secular world.

cercatrova 4y ago

I have a hard time feeling sorry for these people. Sure, they may have gambling tendencies, but at some point, one must reckon with the consequences of their actions, and reap what they sow.

lottin 4y ago
Not to mention that many of these supposed victims are arrogant assholes, whom I and others tried to warn in every possible way and we only got mockery and disdain in return.
- cinntaile 4y ago
  It doesn't mean many of them are like that because you have dealt with some arrogant assholes. You dealt with a vocal group and that is usually a tiny minority.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]