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Bitcoin is the biggest troll on the planet. A nerdy idea that took hold because druggies found it convenient to use and then it became "mainstream" and an "asse

Bitcoin is the biggest troll on the planet. A nerdy idea that took hold because druggies found it convenient to use and then it became "mainstream" and an "asset" and an "investment", with people putting their life savings because they "believe it is going to go up". Its actually a reflection on the current state of society, all the materialism and irrationality personified. The greed, the "hustle", a modern incarnation of snake oil.

cmrdporcupine 4y ago
If it was only druggies, that'd be great, cuz it'd be relatively confined, really. But I don't think that can explain the ridiculous valuations on its own. It's clear there are far larger parties than just drug trafficking and hobbyists and crypto-promoters and "retail investors". My guess is large movements of capital out of places like Iran, China, and Russia.
- kumarvvr 4y ago
  Perhaps players are using it as a "exchange", as in a book / record. Ultimately, its just numbers on a piece of hard-disk.
- nradov 4y ago
  Yes you're exactly right. Wealthy Chinese can purchase mining hardware and electricity using the local funny money, then sell the resulting Bitcoins for actual hard currency. The Chinese authorities have been cracking down but it's hard to stop completely.
  - cmrdporcupine 4y ago
    I think it's more than they're leaving it in bitcoin. For now this is more secure than leaving it in local accounts where the predatory State has access to it, or where it can be confined by sanctions, etc. Later... someday or sooner... throw it through few a mixers, pass it around a few times, and, sure, it could become capital again, or convert to another currency, or stick it in real estate. But there's no need for that at this point. In some places the risk of losing 80% of it to the fluctuations of kleptocoins is actually better than the political risk, or the potential taxation burden.
- otterley 4y ago
  My hypothesis is that people in the drug trade and other illicit industries (hacking for hire, etc.) are the ones who initially gave Bitcoin its early value - much lower than it is today, but above close-to-zero. Then, the general public noticed this new class of appreciating asset, and that’s when the price really started to go up.
throw1234651234 4y ago
Yea, except compare the ease, cost, and time of bank wiring your family $5000 to get out of a country where a war started and sending BTC. Something crypto nay-sayers conveniently ignore.
- kumarvvr 4y ago
  Exactly. I understand the value of the Blockchain, as a distributed, albeit inefficient, ledger of transactions that are anonymous and hard to destroy. But here we have a country, millions of peoples hard work and assets being converted to bitcoin. How exactly does demonstrate critical thinking, planning or heck, even a plan?
- WA 4y ago
  And the crypto bros conveniently ignore that you can’t easily exchange your BTC for actual cash to buy real things without an exchange or a bank account.
  - neonihil 4y ago
    Except for conveniently using one of the ~40,000 crytpo ATMs that are already installed globally. https://coinatmradar.com/ https://coinatmradar.com/
    - VWWHFSfQ 4y ago
      40,000 is a microscopic number and 95% of them are in USA and Canada. The countries that could make most use of these crypto ATMs have no access to them.
      - neonihil 4y ago
        El Salvador has more than 2000 of them. If people want to cash out BTC, they can. No network access or exchange needed. https://coinatmradar.com/country/64/bitcoin-atm-el-salvador/ https://coinatmradar.com/country/64/bitcoin-atm-el-salvador/
d_burfoot 4y ago
Do you know why El Salvador adopted BitCoin? Previously they used the US dollar as their currency, because no one had any faith in a Salvadoran currency, even their own citizens. But doing this is basically meant that ES was paying tribute to the US, since the dollar continually loses value as more are created. US citizens at least get some benefit when the government prints trillions of dollars, in the form of government handouts; ES residents just get screwed.
- lxgr 4y ago
  On a Bitcoin standard, instead of sponsoring the US, wouldn't El Salvador just sponsor early/current Bitcoin holders instead? Replacing one currency not under the government's control with another doesn't seem to achieve all that much, and arguably, picking a deflationary currency at that might be much worse.
  - willcosgrove 4y ago
    > Replacing one currency not under the government's control with another doesn't seem to achieve all that much Slight correction: They are replacing one currency that is not under their government's control, with one that is not under any government's control.
- jcranmer 4y ago
  And how many El Salvadorans see the benefits of new bitcoins being created?
  - bitxbitxbitcoin 4y ago
    At least those mining, which is more than participate in the USD consensus.
- lizknope 4y ago
  Serious question, why don't people have faith in the El Salvadoran currency? Why don't they try to fix the problems that are causing that lack of faith?
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
macacoprego 4y ago
This sounds like a comment straight up from reddit
banannaise 4y ago
Baudrillard strikes again. The entirety of Bitcoin's value is prestige - it has value by being associated with people who are trusted when they say it has value.

cmrdporcupine 4y ago

If it was only druggies, that'd be great, cuz it'd be relatively confined, really. But I don't think that can explain the ridiculous valuations on its own. It's clear there are far larger parties than just drug trafficking and hobbyists and crypto-promoters and "retail investors". My guess is large movements of capital out of places like Iran, China, and Russia.

kumarvvr 4y ago
Perhaps players are using it as a "exchange", as in a book / record. Ultimately, its just numbers on a piece of hard-disk.
nradov 4y ago
Yes you're exactly right. Wealthy Chinese can purchase mining hardware and electricity using the local funny money, then sell the resulting Bitcoins for actual hard currency. The Chinese authorities have been cracking down but it's hard to stop completely.
- cmrdporcupine 4y ago
  I think it's more than they're leaving it in bitcoin. For now this is more secure than leaving it in local accounts where the predatory State has access to it, or where it can be confined by sanctions, etc. Later... someday or sooner... throw it through few a mixers, pass it around a few times, and, sure, it could become capital again, or convert to another currency, or stick it in real estate. But there's no need for that at this point. In some places the risk of losing 80% of it to the fluctuations of kleptocoins is actually better than the political risk, or the potential taxation burden.
otterley 4y ago
My hypothesis is that people in the drug trade and other illicit industries (hacking for hire, etc.) are the ones who initially gave Bitcoin its early value - much lower than it is today, but above close-to-zero. Then, the general public noticed this new class of appreciating asset, and that’s when the price really started to go up.

throw1234651234 4y ago

Yea, except compare the ease, cost, and time of bank wiring your family $5000 to get out of a country where a war started and sending BTC. Something crypto nay-sayers conveniently ignore.

kumarvvr 4y ago
Exactly. I understand the value of the Blockchain, as a distributed, albeit inefficient, ledger of transactions that are anonymous and hard to destroy. But here we have a country, millions of peoples hard work and assets being converted to bitcoin. How exactly does demonstrate critical thinking, planning or heck, even a plan?
WA 4y ago
And the crypto bros conveniently ignore that you can’t easily exchange your BTC for actual cash to buy real things without an exchange or a bank account.
- neonihil 4y ago
  Except for conveniently using one of the ~40,000 crytpo ATMs that are already installed globally. https://coinatmradar.com/ https://coinatmradar.com/
  - VWWHFSfQ 4y ago
    40,000 is a microscopic number and 95% of them are in USA and Canada. The countries that could make most use of these crypto ATMs have no access to them.
    - neonihil 4y ago
      El Salvador has more than 2000 of them. If people want to cash out BTC, they can. No network access or exchange needed. https://coinatmradar.com/country/64/bitcoin-atm-el-salvador/ https://coinatmradar.com/country/64/bitcoin-atm-el-salvador/

d_burfoot 4y ago

Do you know why El Salvador adopted BitCoin? Previously they used the US dollar as their currency, because no one had any faith in a Salvadoran currency, even their own citizens. But doing this is basically meant that ES was paying tribute to the US, since the dollar continually loses value as more are created. US citizens at least get some benefit when the government prints trillions of dollars, in the form of government handouts; ES residents just get screwed.

lxgr 4y ago
On a Bitcoin standard, instead of sponsoring the US, wouldn't El Salvador just sponsor early/current Bitcoin holders instead? Replacing one currency not under the government's control with another doesn't seem to achieve all that much, and arguably, picking a deflationary currency at that might be much worse.
- willcosgrove 4y ago
  > Replacing one currency not under the government's control with another doesn't seem to achieve all that much Slight correction: They are replacing one currency that is not under their government's control, with one that is not under any government's control.
jcranmer 4y ago
And how many El Salvadorans see the benefits of new bitcoins being created?
- bitxbitxbitcoin 4y ago
  At least those mining, which is more than participate in the USD consensus.
lizknope 4y ago
Serious question, why don't people have faith in the El Salvadoran currency? Why don't they try to fix the problems that are causing that lack of faith?

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

macacoprego 4y ago

This sounds like a comment straight up from reddit

banannaise 4y ago

Baudrillard strikes again. The entirety of Bitcoin's value is prestige - it has value by being associated with people who are trusted when they say it has value.