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My journey through the American immigration system as a computer engineer

• ilrwbwrkhv 4y ago
  That's why the real hack is to live in Canada and work remotely for an American company.
  • nikanj 4y ago
    The real hack is getting a Canadian PR+citizenship (well under a decade), then entering the US as a TN2
    • daemoens 4y ago
      Yep. A lot of Somali students I know are doing this by going to Uganda, than to Canada, and finally the US.
    • Izikiel43 4y ago
      I would say under 5 years. If you get a PR through express entry it should be 6 months, then 3 years living as a PR in Canada, then apply for citizenship, and a year later you are a citizen. And express entry is "simple" to apply, you fill boxes, get points, every month they publish the points threshold, if you are above it, you get a PR!
      • nikanj 4y ago
        The processing time for a citizenship application is currently at 27 months. For economic immigration (=PR cards) it's 22 or 27 months, depending if you are a provincial nominee or skilled worker. Skilled trades is 41 months, the new startup-visa is 31 months. https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/application/check-processing-times.html https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/se...
    • analyst74 4y ago
      Then once you build a track record, bring your team back to Canada, completely avoiding greencard queue.
  • anyfactor 4y ago
    I have a pro-cons list about immigrating to Canada. Why Canada ? - Getting a masters level education is much cheaper. - Immigration has less hoops to jump through. Specially if you are willing to live in the Atlantic side. - Great government and social benefits - I heard people are generally nicer. Why not Canada - - TAXES! TAXES! TAXES! - Canada is essentially the money laundering heaven [0] of North America. So buying a house and being in the so called "middle class" is a nightmare. - I believe that there is no middle class in Canada but I could be wrong as an outsider. If you are making money within a specified range that supposedly makes you an middle class individual, it is best to find shelter in government assistance programs because the income taxes are so brutal. I could be wrong, and I hope I am wrong. - American LCOL salary even if you live in Vancouver or Toronto which is HCOL. - If you want to earn big bucks you have to open an LLC and start contracting, which I believe requires a Canadian citizenship. I don't think you can open an LLC with a PR. Doing contract or remote work often requires an LLC. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_washing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_washing I am happy to hear your feedback though. I personally prefer the whole middle region of America (WY, SD, ND, KS, IA...) than to Canada.
    • pcthrowaway 4y ago
      > - If you want to earn big bucks you have to open an LLC and start contracting, which I believe requires a Canadian citizenship. I don't think you can open an LLC with a PR. Doing contract or remote work often requires an LLC I'm a citizen, but I work as a contractor without having to do anything to create a legal entity. I'm considered self-employed, and a de facto business of one.
      • anyfactor 4y ago
        Can you give me a bit more info or tell what to google? Like taxes, accounting and stuff? I am trying to do something like that for a while.
        • kirankp89 4y ago
          Google Sole Proprietorship
• sct202 4y ago
  I think it's really eye opening to me that he still only got a green card so far after 18 years. He's been going thru immigration hoops in the US for as long as it would take to raise an adult.
  • sg47 4y ago
    20 years here and no GC yet. The immigration system is a disaster. Upwards of$2 million in taxes to still be treated as a temporary worker.
    • lotsofpulp 4y ago
      And yet if you had $500k or $1M as a lump sum years ago, you could simply have bought your way into the US with an EB-5. $900k or $1.8M now: https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states/permanent-workers/employment-based-immigration-fifth-preference-eb-5/about-the-eb-5-visa-classification https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states/permanent...
      • 22SAS 4y ago
        It got changed to $800K minimum in March 2022.
        • lotsofpulp 4y ago
          Thanks for the update. Interestingly enough, the targeted employment area (TEA) amount was brought down from $900k to $800k, but the non TEA amount was brought down all the way from $1.8M to $1.05M, with both figures to be adjusted per inflation every five years.
      • gnulinux 4y ago
        EB doesn't lead to Green Card as far as I know. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. That'd mean you'll need to be on EB permanently, which is not unlike being on H for 20+ years.
        • 4y ago
• zolosa 4y ago
  Indians account for 73.9 percent out of the total number of H1B visa holders in the USA. Now i wouldn't want anyone to be discriminated but still it makes sense to limit green card based on nationality
  • tarentel 4y ago
    If there's a demand for certain roles, which clearly seems to be the case, what difference does it make where the people filling those roles comes from?
    • fallingknife 4y ago
      Well, I would prefer them to come from the US instead of allowing companies to import cheaper workers from abroad.
      • sdfhdhjdw3 4y ago
        Why is that?
        • jaywalk 4y ago
          The US government is supposed to first and foremost take care of US citizens, not just allow them to be pushed out of jobs because corporations would rather import cheap labor.
          • sdfhdhjdw3 4y ago
            I agree with that. Do you agree that should be weighted by the need of the country to remain competitive, say in the hypothetically scenario where we came to the conclusion that the average american is lazy, and that that's the core reason why immigrants replace them?
            • jaywalk 4y ago
              The entire reason we have this system is so that the country can remain competitive, which is an important and valid reason. But it was never meant to be what it has become, which is just a way to import cheap labor. It needs to get back to what it was supposed to be, which is a way to bring in highly-skilled labor that simply can't be found in the US, at the same pay US citizens would receive.
• cletus 4y ago
  This is a really good account of the immigration system. I've gone through this myself. My path was significantly easier. As an Australian citizen, I got an E3 instead of an H1B. This is both easier to get and has no uncertainty with a lottery. Technically, there's a quota (10,000 per year) but that cap has never been hit. Also, I'm not born in one of the countries that has a ridiculous long wait like the author. Still, my green card was delayed by a random audit. They do this deliberately so people don't learn to game the system. At that time, an audit added 18 months to the petition processing so overall my green process took almost 3 years. The author accurate describes just how arbitrary, uncertain and punitive this process is. His example of having to go get a visa stamp in the Bahamas and potentially not being allowed to reenter the country. It's also worth noting that H1Bs have different reentry permissions based on your country of origin. IIRC a mainland Chinese born coworker told me he could only renenter the US on his H1B for the first year of each 3 year H1B. The author also portrays the necessity that you need to learn an awful lot about how the immigration system works. All of what he said rang true and I only had one issue with one thing he said. His move of resigning right when getting his green card is a dangerous one. He mentions this and also mentions how you can be subject to claims of immigration fraud. In his case it was for potentially extending his stay at Amazon. This is true. But immediately leaving a job after getting a green card can come back to haunt you if you ever apply for US citizenship because at that time, possibly years later, they can still view this as visa fraud. So how long do you need to stay in a job to avoid this? Like so many things in the immigration system, it's unclear. Many lawyers will give you advice to stay for at least six months to demonstrate your intent but this is a discretionary test so there's no hard-and-fast minimum. Even looking to change jobs (including founding a startup) while your petition is being processed can be a red flag as far as visa fraud goes. So if anyone is in a similar boat, here's my advice to you: don't even look for jobs in this stage. Get your green card in your hands, celebrate the end of probably a long journey, give it a few months and then consider your options.
  • diebeforei485 4y ago
    > It's also worth noting that H1Bs have different reentry permissions based on your country of origin. IIRC a mainland Chinese born coworker told me he could only renenter the US on his H1B for the first year of each 3 year H1B. There isn't a separate re-entry restriction, it's just the expiry date of the visa stamp in the passport. For Chinese nationals, US consulates only issued visa stamps valid for 1 year. I am not sure if this is still the case. This would be a non-issue if visa stamps could be issued within the country (like basically every other country on earth), and in fact the US did issue stamps internally in the old days, but after 9/11 they changed it so only foreign diplomats and officials of UN, NATO etc can get visa stamps here.
• throw123123123 4y ago
  US immigration is in the biggest crisis in decades - between rhetoric & admin burden from Trump, covid, and ossified bureaucracy, it is the worst time in history for a tech worker to migrate to the US. Each time a developer works for the US from abroad, the US economy loses up to 50% o salaries in taxes for gov funding, and up to 80% of the reminder in spending within the economy. An argentine developer making 150k from the US pays 0 taxes and spends 80%+ in argentina. If he moves to the US he pays 60k in taxes and spends 80%+ in the US. US is shooting itself in the foot so hard. The solution is the easiest - remove H1b caps.
  • newaccount2021 4y ago
  • melony 4y ago
    Doesn't the US have tax agreements with most countries? You still have to pay tax on US income.
    • frozenlettuce 4y ago
      Not if the employee is hired from a proxy company in the target country.
    • circlefavshape 4y ago
      It's not US income if you don't live in the US. You pay income tax based on where you live, not where you employer lives
      • xyzzyz 4y ago
        US taxes all income you earn anywhere in the world. It’s not that bad in practice, as first $100k or something earned abroad is exempt, and there are anti double taxation treaties with many countries, but overall, if you’re a US citizen abroad, you might owe US taxes.
        • 4y ago
• deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
• gumby 4y ago
  what an exhausting but gripping example of how the immigration system is Byzantine and absurd. I am in the grips of it now: my ex and I both filed to renew our green card within a week or so of each other in early 2021. She received her replacement card in less than six weeks. According to the USCIS web site I still have at least another eight months to wait. Meanwhile I can’t even get a stamp in my passport to indicate my status (so that I can travel): I arranged for such an appointment but when they finally called to tell me when it was instead to tell me that there are no appointments available.
• deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
• vsskanth 4y ago
  The interesting part here is he finally got his green card after 18 years only because he married an Australian citizen and wasn’t blocked by the county quota anymore. Imagine how frustrating it must be being qualified, living in the country for decades and still blocked from residency all because you were born somewhere, it’s something you have no control over
  • PuppyTailWags 4y ago
    This is a big reason to have children who are american citizens. The children can then pay several tens of thousands of dollars once they're adults to sponsor their parents. Two decades is a shorter wait.
    • yardie 4y ago
      My boss made sure to have his kids in the US before going back to his home country where the extended family can help raise them.
      • PuppyTailWags 4y ago
        Yep, unfortunately this is a known strategy so if one is pregnant and trying to go to the states (like a vacation or business, unrelated to birth) immigration will give you a ton of shit.
        • deleted 4y ago
          [deleted]
  • thatfrenchguy 4y ago
    I mean, anywhere you immigrate to, you have less rights than someone born there despite the fact that they didn’t do anything to get that citizenship. It’s pretty atrocious though that people born in India have to wait in line for decades or, like that person and many of my colleagues, have to marry someone who is not born there, while all the French people I know in the US got their green cards in 1-5 years.
• asdf_snar 4y ago
  I can only say this sounds extremely accurate based on my own experience of F-1, OPT, H1B. The anxiety resonates as well. I remember getting my work authorization card and noticing that my first name and last name were switched. I remember sitting down at a train station and nearly breaking down into tears, because I was certain this mistake wouldn't be tolerated, that I'd lose my job, and have to leave the country.
  • omitmyname 4y ago
    what is the end of the story?
    • asdf_snar 4y ago
      I didn't even notice the mistake at first -- my name is not misspelled, so I figured if I didn't say anything I would be able to get away with it. I knew my EAD card would have to be photocopied or scanned at some point when I first arrived at the office, so I crafted some inane plan to tell an engaging story while the HR person was taking care of my documents, in the hopes they wouldn't see. In the end no one ever noticed, I ended up getting H1B a few months later. But I don't think my worrying was unfounded; I'd heard stories of a single character being wrong (or, missing an accent, and therefore not matching their passport) and someone's entire life changing (they had to go back to their home country). I should also note that the guidelines for filling out CPT and OPT are also completely nebulous. I forget what the specific issue was, but I remember the administrator at my university being unsure of how to answer some question, them having no recourse, and me having nobody to ask. I'm on my 4th year of H1B and I need to figure out how to apply for a GC. The time investment in putting together all the documents is significant. Not to mention exiting the country to go see loved ones is always a pain.
      • csomar 4y ago
        I think the name switch is unlikely to get you into trouble. My country has the reverse of the US (First name is last name and last name is first!). I've been switching regularly and this only confused people who wanted to address me by my "first name".
• quantumwannabe 4y ago
  Note that India requires prospective citizens to live in the country for 12 years before applying for naturalization, and China doesn't allow non-ethnic Chinese immigration at all (only ~1500 naturalized citizens/10,000 permanent residents in the whole country of over a billion people). Something to keep in mind when people from those countries complain about the American immigration system (doesn't apply to the Singaporean author of this article, but does apply to some of the other commenters).
  • rajup 4y ago
    Those may be true, but I always assumed that the US of A aspires to do better, American exceptionalism, land of opportunity and all that jazz.
    • car_analogy 4y ago
      This is assuming that more immigration equals better. And even if one does think so, then the USA is doing "better" - by orders of magnitude. The Chinese and Indians are not set to become minorities in their own countries, are they? But thanks to immigration, white Americans practically already are [1], yet it is they that are called xenophobic. Double-standards doesn't begin to describe it. [1] https://www.brookings.edu/research/less-than-half-of-us-children-under-15-are-white-census-shows/ https://www.brookings.edu/research/less-than-half-of-us-chil...
      • polygamous_bat 4y ago
        In what part of the US Constitution are the white Americans identified as the essential majority for the country? This is a country that was founded through immigration, unlike China or India, so turning around and crying about becoming a minority just as you are enjoying the benefits of your ancestors migrating seems hypocritical.
        • quantumwannabe 4y ago
          Appealing to the history of immigration in the country doesn't diminish the GP's point as the US has discriminated against the origins and identities of immigrants since its founding. >The Naturalization Act of 1790 (1 Stat. 103, enacted March 26, 1790) was a law of the United States Congress that set the first uniform rules for the granting of United States citizenship by naturalization. The law limited naturalization to "free White person(s) ... of good character", thus excluding Native Americans, indentured servants, slaves, free black people and later Asians, although free black people were allowed citizenship at the state level in a number of states. [1] Race based citizenship remained the law until United States v. Wong Kim Ark (1898) [2] where the Supreme Court interpreted the "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" clause of the 14th Amendment to meant that anyone physically born in the country was automatically granted citizenship. Race-neutral naturalization wasn't enacted until the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952 [3] and racial discrimination and national original based immigration (not permanent residency as should be obvious) controls weren't banned until the Hart–Celler Act in 1965 [4]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalization_Act_of_1790 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalization_Act_of_1790 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Wong_Kim_Ark https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Wong_Kim_Ark [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_Nationality_Act_of_1952 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_Nationality_Ac... [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_Nationality_Act_of_1965 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_Nationality_Ac...
• 29athrowaway 4y ago
  How many people in India had exactly the same idea at the same time? If 1 billion people suddenly all wanted to go to the same restaurant, or do anything that involves certain form of capacity, that system would collapse. Then, companies want to keep people under H1B as long as possible because H1B is a form of control.
  • goodpoint 4y ago
    ...then the restaurant would simply book you a table in a FIFO manner. Once and for all. Be it tomorrow or in a month or in 12 years. Then you can decide to wait or cancel. Very simple.
  • shuckles 4y ago
    Two great American universities chose to admit this man. This isn’t some story about thundering hoards — he was invited to the country.
    • 29athrowaway 4y ago
      And shortly after he entered the country, studied and then worked for many years. Did he have to wait outside for 18 years? No. Was he prevented for working? No. Considering how saturated the system is, I see a working system and a happy person that lived, studied and worked in the US for 18 years.
      • shuckles 4y ago
        You keep claiming the system is “at capacity” with no evidence, and the psychological trauma it inflicts as inevitable. How does it strain the system differently to process an Indian applicant than an Australian one?
        • 29athrowaway 4y ago
          I went through the same process as this man, so I am speaking from experience. The actual impact to my life was negligible, as all of the actual work was done by immigration lawyers. The only thing I had to do was submitting some info to the attorneys, a biometrics appointment and a short interview. And paying fees, and presenting a vaccination record. And the system is at capacity because there are long waiting times, which is the definition of a saturated system. And this is public, published information. https://egov.uscis.gov/processing-times/ https://egov.uscis.gov/processing-times/ If the guy has anxiety and checks the case status every 1 minute, there are good solutions for that, all of which have nothing to do with the immigration system.
• shmde 4y ago
  At what point of time does this process become dehumanising ?
  • lotsofpulp 4y ago
    From the very beginning, when they do not allow you to sell your labor to whoever you want.
• someotherperson 4y ago
  Even going to the US as a non-immigrant is totally broken at the moment. If you don't qualify[0] for an ESTA (visa waiver) then an appointment for a tourist visa in the US can be upwards of 200 days in some places (i.e Australia or Netherlands). An appointment at the consulate in Toronto is 429 days away if you were to book today. That's not the processing time, that's literally just the appointment you need to make as part of the application. There is additional processing time added to that if it is successful. You can plug some cities in here[1] to see how long it would take. [0] If you've visited several countries in the MENA region since 2011, have ever held one of their passports or are not flying on a passport from one of the 40 countries listed here: https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/tourism-visit/visa-waiver-program.html https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/tourism-... [1] https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/visa-information-resources/wait-times.html https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/visa-inf...
  • keyme 4y ago
    Even with a tourist visa that I got years back it isn't smooth going into the USA anymore (as a shithole-country passport holder). I went many times, but last time I got "the room", for absolutely no reason, and nothing was asked of me but the standard questions. It only took hours in an intimidating setting. USA, you're just another country. Next time I'll take my tourist money elsewhere.
    • throwaway1183 4y ago
      As a citizen of another shithole-country passport holder (living in country other than US) I can't agree more. I don't get why people make it as if USA is the only beacon of hope. It's just another country. Now that the world is diversified, globalized and everything is connected with the internet, I don't understand why people have to cling so much to the American idea of success. Are people living outside really that unsuccessful? I don't see any problem with what USA is doing. It's their country, let them do their thing. As long as US is open to trade and exchange, everyone is winning! They made so many great things and everyone can reap benefit out of it. I hypothesize that it's the generational problem that got passed to other people because of globalized world. Everyone has equal access of information. Just 20 years ago, when people had less information, they were probably more content with the local things. But the result of globalization is people tend to be blinded. They starting ignoring opportunities. I realized that even few people from rich country think that it's only in the US where they can be successful. I feel it's like how people moved from farms to cities then to another countries. Now the time has changed and the new city is US. I think every place has their own flaws and gains, but life will just keep on going. I believe we should learn to be more gratuitous and be thankful for what we have. On the sidenote, congrats to author getting the card!
• programmertote 4y ago
  It took me also ~18 years to get my green card. I went through a very similar (almost identical) route as the blogger and I'm glad he documented this grueling experience. I went to college in the US; graduated in 4 years; worked with OPT for 2.5 years; went back to a PhD program because my then employer wouldn't sponsor me an H1B (according to them, they are a start-up and cannot put up with the legal burden and cost of sponsoring me, who is the only immigrant at the company); earned my PhD and went to work for a Fortune 100 company; got selected in the H1B lottery on the first attempt; waited 2 more years for my employer to decide that I'm worthy of their green card sponsorship; waited 4 years in the green card application process (thanks partly to COVID delays and thanks partly to the immigration law firm, Fragomen, which not only screwed up with my PERM filing once but also was very slow in preparing the application--probably intentionally because there was no one at my company who is holding Fragomen accountable back then; my company since then moved to PwC for immigration matters although I'm not sure if that improves things for the immigrant workers there) to finally get one. I went back home twice in that 18 years because I was always afraid that I might not be allowed back in the US when I renew my visa (F-1 student visa or H1B work visa) at the local embassy in my home country. If I could turn back in time, I'd have gone to Canada to not have to deal with this. Or I should have married a US citizen to make my path to green card easier, or even applied for asylum using my country's political situation as a cover (I didn't do either because I thought these are dishonest *for my situation*; there are a lot of people from my country who do either of these things). Legal immigration (including work visa and green card) is very difficult in the US.
  • renewiltord 4y ago
    Fragomen is junk. We used them for a guy and they goofed half the information. It was an easy fix, but come on, just work in the first place.
  • BeetleB 4y ago
    I don't mean to annoy you, but it sounds like it took you 6 years once you actually got a permanent job (although even 6 years is too much!). The years as a student don't really count.
• Swizec 4y ago
  For an alternative approach and path – it took me 7 years from landing in the country on a B-1 business visa to a EB-2 greencard via 2 separate O-1 visas. And I thought that was grueling! Just received my card in the mail two weekends ago. Here’s a full writeup linking to 2 previous visa writeups, if anyone’s interested: https://swizec.com/blog/how-i-used-indie-hacking-to-sponsor-my-own-greencard/ https://swizec.com/blog/how-i-used-indie-hacking-to-sponsor-... caveat: I’m from a small country that’s well under quota and there is no wait time beyond the usual processing times.
• itissid 4y ago
  One of the constant dichotomies that i(and maybe other immigrants) live with are these: The privilege of being a model minority [1] [2] yet being on the edge of having to lose it all if the immigration system shits itself. One might be a senior software engineer paying 100K + in taxes and probably drive EVs and own a home, your largest infraction are parking tickets, yet the risks are asymmetric; the whims of bureaucrats and a border guard who is having a bad day. The purchasing power parity of my $$ salary affords me secure a comfortable financial future, but these are golden handcuffs; You cannot always work for the companies you want because if the company goes bust and you chance to lose a lot. These are the dichotomies I(and many immigrants) have had to live with. Time is a great healer of things and over time and with financial cushions the dichotomy might fade, I am still not sure it completely goes away. One can only think of the present and make the best of it. [1] https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/01/the-making-of-a-model-minority/617258/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/01/the-mak... [2] https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Karma_of_Brown_Folk/j7YmWfbNtNcC?hl=en&gbpv=1&pg=PA1&printsec=frontcover https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Karma_of_Brown_Folk...
  • notch656a 4y ago
    >a border guard who is having a bad day. This is not to be understated. I was born a US citizen. Last time I entered the country, officers faked that a dog had alerted "on my anus", forcibly strip searched me, and fabricated a story that plastic baggies that they suspected 'could be drugs' were coming out of my ass. I was shackled and cuffed and dragged around the state of Arizona for 16 hours while publicly paraded in Hospitals, including the waiting rooms. Officers attempted repeatedly, across two different cities one hour apart, to get medical staff to perform unwarranted and consentless x-rays and/or probing of my body, which I repeatedly refused. Doctors, despite having zero medical evidence I had did anything wrong, wrote on their paperwork I was 'suspicious' because I denied the allegations. After 16 hours of this harassments I was release, uncharged, with no apologies. On yet another occasion, I was told by border officials they would not let me in my own country, despite providing full proof of citizenship (immaculate condition passport, plus identifying myself fully). After 4 hours of probing questions including going practically line by line on what's on the IRS 1040, most of which I didn't answer, I was released. Now imagine this same happening, legally entering the country at the proper port of entry with full authorization -- except as not a citizen or looking like a boring middle-class corn-fed white guy like me. These sick fucks would treat you even worse. A woman (actually a citizen) who went through a few years before me brutally had her orifices probed in a 'search' for 'contraband.'[0] [0] https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/6451513/cervantes-v-uni https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/6451513/cervantes-v-uni...
• corderop 4y ago
  I guess it's almost impossible to emigrate as a Junior to US being European, but I would like to know the opinion of someone that has experience in that. I would like to work there in my first years (don't want to spend my life there) but I see normal that no company would like to support a VISA for a Junior having a lot in the US. I know that some companies hire you for 1 year in Europe and then offer you move to America, but they are usually big companies where it's difficult to get hired.
  • throwaway2037 4y ago
    If you are a European passport holder (yes, I know that is broad), you should try for the Diversity Immigrant Visa -- aka the Green Card Lottery. I had a German co-worker once who applied and got it. For wealthy European nations, it is not /super/ difficult to win this lottery, as there are so few applicants. Ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diversity_Immigrant_Visa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diversity_Immigrant_Visa
    • corderop 4y ago
      Ouh, I didn't know about this program. It's so interesting to see a country like USA doing this. I will read more about the program, it seems interesting, I will read more about it. > it is not /super/ difficult to win this lottery, as there are so few applicants. I see in the Wikipedia article that 13M people applies. I guess that you mention that not so many people emigrate from Europe to the US, that's why it's more likely to get this. I will consider this, it's so interesting.
      • throwaway2037 4y ago
        Yes, I am pretty sure that you can re-apply every year. This would further increase your chances of winning.
• kamaal 4y ago
  The most important part of this hasn't even been mentioned yet. He is lucky to have even gotten this far. Most Indians don't. In fact, the default, like he mentions go in the 'Deportation parties'. Most Indians return, in fact nearly all. It's the luckier ones who make it even this far. As much as crazy this sound, I envy this guy. It's basically a giant life lottery.
  • TheArcane 4y ago
    > Most Indians return, in fact nearly all. Source?
• ab_testing 4y ago
  One thing the author did not mention is that there is a huge wastage of green cards every year by US immigration authorities. That wastage compounds the problem faced by immigrants. The wastage works like this - 1. Every country is allocated an equal number of visas per year . 2. However a lot of smaller countries do not come close to utilizing their full visa allocation 3. The remaining visas can be allocated to the backlogged countries (mostly India and China) 4. The law also allows for the utilization of unused family based visas to be given to employment categories if there are backlogs. 5. However the Us government gets a fixed amount of time to make that allocation . If they do not do that allocation in the correct time period then those visas are wasted. Just as an example last year, USCIS wasted around 50K visas and this year they are on track to almost waste 85K visas. Looking at these numbers, it looks like a manufactured crisis to keep employment based immigrants in a constant state of flux so as to limit job hopping and limit their pay negotiation options.
  • gumby 4y ago
    > Looking at these numbers, it looks like a manufactured crisis to keep employment based immigrants in a constant state of flux so as to limit job hopping and limit their pay negotiation options. Occam's razor suggests that, given how fucked up DHS, and USCIS in particular is, private sector pay negotiations is well below their noise floor.
• anmalhot 4y ago
  this story resonated a lot with me. Have been in States for a decade and still waiting on GC. However, throttling(7% quota) based on country of birth appears to be a bad proxy for diversity as India is a very diverse nation with rich cultural and linguistic distinctions. Designing a new immigration system would be a reduction problem from the existing one but we have seen successful implementations in other countries such as Canada and EU (albeit with their own set of problems)
• Bhilai 4y ago
  Sigh, I tried to follow what US Government was doing about this and eventually gave up but here is a short history: S.386 was introduced in the Senate by Mike Lee in 2019 [1] There was a unanimous consent on it in 2021 [2] but the bill expired (?) because Dick Durbin, senator from IL wont table it (I dont clearly understand the process in the Senate but some people who follow this had expressed anger at Durbin for not doing anything - https://www.durbinisracist.com/ https://www.durbinisracist.com/) It was reintroduced in Congress as Eagle Act [3] but its been stalled ever since. It ironic that people think Democrats want open borders while the same Democrats could not even pass a sane bill for legal immigration (especially for immigrants who contribute a whole lot to the US) with their majorities while immigration was a top agenda for President Biden. Not to mention all the big tech companies with big lobbies cant get this move at all. [1] https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/386?q=%7B%22search%22%3A%5B%22S.+386%22%5D%7D&s=2&r=1 https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/386... [2] https://cis.org/Vaughan/Senate-S386-HR1044-Country-Cap https://cis.org/Vaughan/Senate-S386-HR1044-Country-Cap [3] https://eagleact.info https://eagleact.info
  • throwaway_1928 4y ago
    The history of this bill goes back further. It passed the House in 2011 as HR 3012 [1]. Note that we are told that Trump is racist and his opponents are not, but a lot of lawmakers with an axe to grind against Indians with 150-year immigration wait times [2] are prominent democrats. [1] https://www.congress.gov/bill/112th-congress/house-bill/3012 https://www.congress.gov/bill/112th-congress/house-bill/3012 [2] https://www.cato.org/blog/150-year-wait-indian-immigrants-advanced-degrees https://www.cato.org/blog/150-year-wait-indian-immigrants-ad...
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• boredumb 4y ago
  Emma Lazarus posted a poem in 1903 and now the US has to bend over backwards to make everyone a citizen. The amount of people I hear living or working in the US that explain away bureaucracy as racist/xenophobic/etc while hailing from countries that literally won't allow you to become a citizen unless your genetic parents are from there is insane. It's obviously not a monolith of people but it does become tiresome hearing about how the US is a byzantine of immigration as if there is some obligation for US citizens to adopt every nation while the other side of the mouth explains how racist the US is and all the while the nations large swaths of immigrants are coming from won't let US citizens hold their passport unless they are multimillionaire investors.
  • chupkarkhotay 4y ago
    I recommend reading "This land is our land" by Suketu Mehta: https://us.macmillan.com/books/9780374276027/thislandisourland https://us.macmillan.com/books/9780374276027/thislandisourla... You cannot compare policies with any random country - most immigrants pick the countries that have already hoarded all the wealth over centuries by waging and funding wars. In light of that history, the US should do a lot more than bend over backwards as reparations.
  • Aperocky 4y ago
    > obligation for US citizens to adopt every nation The legal immigrants that came here are mostly self-supporting people whose taxes and spending supports a lot of US citizens. Therefore your statement is almost entirely reversed, it is beneficial to the country that these people join us here. Of course, we can kill the H1B program entirely. Businesses will find a way, except this time all of the aforementioned taxes and spending will happen somewhere else. Sundar Pichai, Elon Musk, Sergey Brin, Satya Nadella, they'll all work elsewhere, along with millions of other people in the tech community.
• renewiltord 4y ago
  The comments here in this thread illustrate why unions are so dangerous. So many Americans subscribe to the “we are full” and “why should I lower my wages” arguments against immigration. On their own, they’re flaccid. If unionized they would be powerful. Better that software engineer unions never see light lest they behave like unions of old did and turn their ire on immigrants. Read here about the history of existing immigration policy and its roots in union anti-immigration policy https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/5124597.pdf https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/5124597.pdf
• vpl0512 4y ago
  I am sailing in the same boat. Except that I am still waiting to be liberated with a Green Card. Its outrageous that there is still a big racism on the name of "Per-country" caps for a common-sense high skilled immigration system in the country like USA who makes a tall claim of being "Equal-Opportunity" country. A Pizza-delivery guy from Non-India/Non-Chinese place of birth can get his citizenship before atleast a decade than the person of Indian/Chinese original who filed on the same day. Its 2022, 4 administration went away since 2007 who made claims of changing the immigration system. Let's see how long do we wait to suffer.
  • geodel 4y ago
    LOL. I could sympathize otherwise. But here this could be case of of person less talented the pizza delivery person, having very classist attitude, looking to settle in explicitly racist country by their own admission.
• polotics 4y ago
  Stockholm syndrome much? What a horrible sad story. I felt pain each time the author mentioned being elated or joyful. One hard working Asian gets mistreated by the Land Of the Free, the mother of his child subjected to completely needless stress in the worst possible months of her pregnancy, and for what?
• rdl 4y ago
  I'd definitely like our immigration system to be better executed even under the current overall goals; the arbitrary/capricious CBP officer at the border seems pretty bad. Most of H1B could be fixed if we could get rid of Wipro/etc. staffing agency abuse (almost entirely of people from India, but there are lots of Indian H1B who work for other companies and are fine); the process seems relatively non-abused by actual end-user tech employers, with the biggest problems for smaller companies being the "can't work here because if company fails you lose status (in 30 days now, thankfully, not immediately)" and "hassle of the process". I'm not sure how legally to ban the Wipro style use of H1B while preserving the rest. I'd also always prefer fees vs. delays; there are jobs for which $200k/yr fee paid to US Treasury would still be worth it for ~instant processing, and it's inefficient/bad for everyone to not have that as an option.
  • valarauko 4y ago
    I thought the Wipro visa misuse was L1, not H1B?
• nisegami 4y ago
  I haven't opened the article because I suspect I'm not in the right headspace for it, but I wanted to share my thoughts. I did my degree in the US and my experience with the immigration system was so traumatic that I just gave up entirely and didn't try to stay in the US after graduation. I wouldn't say I regret it, but it does feel wasteful at the end of the day to have put all that time/effort/energy in only to come back to my home country. But oh well.
• rohith2506 4y ago
  One of the sane decisions I have made five years ago. Go to US for masters and stuck in the long immigration process with no uncertainty or move to Europe with a well paying job. I choose the latter and I couldn’t have been happier. In the last five years, I dealt with immigration twice and that too just renew my resident permit. Last year, I went through civic integration procedure and gonna get an European passport along with OCI card which makes me visa free travel to almost all parts of the world. It’s just a breeze and it’s not just me. Most of my friends have similar stories and we barely hear people complaining about immigration issues. So, anyone who’s looking for an alternative, Europe, especially Netherlands. The salary barrier is also reducing a lot now a days. When I moved, I used to make high five figures which was quite good for European salaries but now, almost low to mid six figures.
• geodel 4y ago
  "Given that managers are a dime a dozen in any country, it seems odd to put managers in the same category as people of “extraordinary ability,” but I digress." This is really important point in case anyone missed. The gross misuse of this rule to bring in project managers, account managers (L-1 based) and such have really made things worse for non L-1 immigrants by hogging most of green cards awarded per country basis.
  • valarauko 4y ago
    I'm not sure that's a fair comparison - the rant about managers is concerning their special status in the highest priority EB1 category for Employment Based Green Cards, not L1 work visas. Or are you referring to L1 managers eventually working their way to EB1 Managers?
    • geodel 4y ago
      I am talking about L1A , people who are brought in as "International Managers" where in reality they are just some IT project managers doing daily scrum and crap. See here [1] for "Certain Multinational manager or executive" . Here is the definition: "You must have been employed outside the United States for at least 1 year in the 3 years preceding the petition or the most recent lawful nonimmigrant admission if you are already working for the U.S. petitioning employer. The U.S. petitioner must have been doing business for at least 1 year, have a qualifying relationship to the entity you worked for outside the U.S., and intend to employ you in a managerial or executive capacity. " Using this criteria, IT body shops are running wholesale scam. 1. https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states/permanent-workers/employment-based-immigration-first-preference-eb-1 https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states/permanent...
      • valarauko 4y ago
        I'm confused - you're referring to L1A non-immigrant temporary work visas but the link is for EB1 immigrant applications?
• Longlius 4y ago
  The complaints about national quotas are strange. The prevailing assumption that everyone outside of the US should ideally have an equal opportunity to receive permanent residency. But that's not a goal of US immigration policy. US immigration policy is built around maintaining a diverse pool of immigrants and focusing on family reunification. Skilled labor is obviously a plus but it's of secondary concern.
  • ROTMetro 4y ago
    This right here. It is a desired feature of our system, not a bug.
  • valarauko 4y ago
    Everybody understands the stated goals of US immigration policy. They just don't necessarily agree with it, and are pointing out ways in which the current policy is detrimental to US interests in ways that likely supersede the value gained by diversifying the country of birth of potential immigrants.
• Zanneth 4y ago
  As someone who was born in the U.S. nothing makes me more grateful to be a citizen than hearing stories like this from my colleagues. Fascinating story, and a wonderful happy ending!
• lbrito 4y ago
  Given the reality of remote work, one might hope the allure of immigrating to the US for the jobs might diminish. Sure, you probably won't make half a million working remotely as a software engineer, but you probably don't need that in most of the world anyway. I can't fathom waiting almost two decades for a permanent residency status. It was excruciating just reading the post, yet alone living it. Mad kudos to the author for enduring the process. Personally I'd never go for it.
• outworlder 4y ago
  > Normally, getting the approved I-140 is a major milestone, and means you’re close to receiving your Green Card. Yeah, no. Even if you are current, it could be months away, or it could be years. 2 years is not uncommon these days, even if your country is theoretically 'current'. More if there are RFEs. If you are exceptionally unlucky they can even send a RFE _after_ approval, sometimes months after (these are called Notice of Intent to Revoke). Even permanent residents can theoretically receive RFEs years after approval. Or site inspections. As of today, this is uncommon and only really done if fraud is suspected. However, if the administration changes again, you never know. And getting the green card is never guaranteed. It's a 'privilege'. If you change jobs you need to restart the whole green card process. But not if your Adjustment of Status has been pending for 180 days or more. Then there's some 'portability' clause. Still dangerous - there were lawsuits because USCIS sent RFEs to a previous employer. Which obviously they didn't respond to. People were unaware that anything was going wrong until their applications were denied, at which point it is too late (and, if your I-140 gets denied, and you have been using your EAD, you are retroactively out of status and have accrued unlawful presence, as well as your dependents). They did this because according to them, those applications are not related to the employee at all, they are done by the employer. As a result of the lawsuits, they will notify the 'beneficiary' now, at least. > Any secondary source of income, even if it’s from a business that you’ve built from the ground up, would violate the terms of your H1B visa Interestingly, you are never given those 'terms'. You'll eventually learn about this. But it's very vague. Doing a garage sale? Might be ok, if you don't do it very often. How often is often? You can be a landlord (and bring in significant revenue), but you can't fix a tenant's clogged sink - because then you'd be working. Hiring someone else to do is is apparently A-OK. You definitely can't drive for Uber, or release an IOS app on your free time, or have an Youtube channel (again on your free time).
  • manuelabeledo 4y ago
    > Yeah, no. Even if you are current, it could be months away, or it could be years. 2 years is not uncommon these days, even if your country is theoretically 'current'. My case took a bit over 18 months, from PERM to Green card. Even worse, there was a gap of 20 days between my visa expiration date, and the arrival of my EAD, so I had to be put on unpaid leave. The USCIS has been a complete shit show since the Trump administration took over, and COVID made it even worse.
• la6472 4y ago
• jsiaajdsdaa 4y ago
  I am a white American that majored in History. I am a self taught programmer making $225,000 per year now. I believe that all countries need to reduce restrictions on the movement of people. Humans should be free to move and live where they want. I am worried, however, that transitioning away from our current flawed system will have a lot of unpleasant side effects. Many Americans might lose their jobs, simply because others will work for cheaper and probably provide around the same quality. Additionally our house prices would likely decline as well. For these reasons I am selfishly concerned about my job prospects, especially since I have to compete against others in my own country, but I will never be given the chance to compete against them in their own country.
• olliej 4y ago
  The multiple occurrences when INS had just delayed my entry by hours while also not letting me use my phone to message my American partner were what made me eventually become American. It’s not just that INS can screw you, it’s that they seem to relish holding that above you. Oh, and to be clear I am the whitest white dude whoever whited, so I wasn’t even being subjected to skin colour based racism, and yet was getting screwed around.
• GolDDranks 4y ago
  Whew, I just went through the process of getting a Permanent Residency in Japan, applying after working here for a bit over 4 years, and being accepted this spring, at a little under 5 years in. It was stressful, but after reading this, I have to admit that immigration in Japan seems like a walk in a park, at least if you're privileged enough to speak Japanese and have a high-paying job.
• bowsamic 4y ago
  I honestly can’t fathom what’s so great about America that people are willing to put up with this stuff. Do people still buy into the facade of fake hope? I have a Russian coworker who lectured at MIT and he said that every year immigrants would come to the new lecture series adorned in US flag clothes, absolutely full of propaganda. Then after time they would realise the truth: just another country, worse than many
• zaptheimpaler 4y ago
  I decided to move to Canada after a few years on an H1B for this reason. I got a PR card literally on arrival at the airport! I can do everything but vote and can choose to become a citizen whenever i want. Border agents are nice and don’t make me feel like a criminal, companies cannot exploit me, i can be unemployed or start a business anytime. Zero immigrant stress. Salaries and taxes are worse but its worth the freedom & peace of mind. Putting aside politics & whether you agree/disagree with US immigration policy, i think going elsewhere is simply a better option for Chinese/Indian immigrants as of now. Most of the West is staring down an aging population and is desperate for young labor, so there’s tons of options. A lot of places have well functioning governments and the demand for technology is global.
• dzdt 4y ago
  A really good in depth take on how the U.S. immigration system works for a highly skilled technology worker (Intel,Google,Amazon,Startup) from the point of view of that person.
  • netsharc 4y ago
    At first read of your comment, I read "works" as "it works!" i.e. as a synonym for "succeeds", but maybe you just meant how it works as in how the gears of bureaucracy turned. From the point of view of someone who immigrated from a developing Asian country to a EU country, geez, I had it a lot easier than he did. The country's law doesn't seem to allow refusal without concrete grounds as long as the applicant meets all the requirements, whereas in the US, even if you meet all the requirements, the decision is still arbritary.