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eBay Robbed This Man of $4700 and Suspended His Account When He Asked Questions

• kuczmama 4y ago
  I also just had my ebay account banned for no apparent reason. I listed some watches that I had, and with no reason banned the account. I guess I'll be using facebook marketplace from now on.
• socialist_coder 4y ago
  Based on the comments it seems this practice started when eBay switched to their own internal payments system. A lot of anecdotal evidence in the thread that this is a common thing. I assume there is more to it...
  • bodge5000 4y ago
    In my experience, PayPal aren't much better. A few years ago I ordered something off eBay. It was overpriced, but it was the only place selling this particular variant of the item. Anyway, the next day they sent me a message saying that variant was out of stock and could send me another instead, but of course I opted to cancel. After a lot of back and forth (them offering me dodgy extras and me refusing) they sent it anyway and told me to return it. To cut a long story short, they did indeed send the item, but not me. And the mad part is, PayPal admitted to not caring, even with written proof from Royal Mail that the order wasn't addressed to me, PayPal pretty much said (I cant find the original dispute now, so not verbatim) that as long as the order was sent to someone, I have nothing to complain about. In the end I just asked my bank for a chargeback, which took 5 minutes compared to the literal month the above took.
    • altarius 4y ago
      That's a pretty common scam in the US with FedEx as well... someone must have access to lots of tracking numbers, they sell stuff on ebay and provide a tracking that sort of matches your city and paypal won't do anything as long as tracking sort of matches the supposed destination. I ordered a drone, but the package supposedly weighed 75lbs and consisted of 2 palets and went to my city but the wrong zip code according to tracking -- I documented everything and started a dispute but paypal did not care. This works best with Fedex because they won't release full tracking details afaik unless you know the destination address, which you don't know, of course.
      • nocoiner 4y ago
        Ahhh, thanks for posting this - this happened to me one time, and I couldn’t figure out that bit of the scam (access to a sufficient number of tracking numbers where they can point to a seemingly matching shipment). I bought a home automation device from a dodgy site at a price I knew was too good to be true. Needless to say, I never got it, and when I filed a dispute with PayPal, the buyer “substantiated” the shipment with a tracking number. I, of course, never got the package, nor did I get a refund. There were all kinds of inconsistencies with the seller’s response (as I recall, their first response was that it had already been shipped, and when I escalated it, the tracking number was for an item that didn’t ship until after my dispute), but it was facially good enough for PayPal so the scammer made $60 off me. Live and learn.
    • kingcharles 4y ago
      I had the same thing. Company sent me something, FedEx screwed up and it got returned and delivered back to the merchant. I tried to do a chargeback, but my bank (Square) said that it had been "delivered" somewhere, which was enough for their support script. They couldn't change their support script to handle the fact it hadn't been delivered to me, so they terminated my account to solve the issue, per their T&Cs which allow terminations for no reason.
  • sophacles 4y ago
    Well yeah, eBay couldn't do it before they had their own payment system. They outsourced that stuff to PayPal
  • debug-desperado 4y ago
    Their internal payment system is so terrible it won't even work with smaller banks. The verification system just fails with an unhelpful error message. Customer service's approach to fixing this is to submit a ticket to engineering that never gets looked at, then encouraging you to open a new account with one of the larger banks (Wells Fargo, Chase, etc.). You know things are bad when your customers are pining for Paypal back.
• chris_wot 4y ago
  Why does anyone use eBay? They clearly can’t be trusted and the chance of being scammed is high. Now we find they suspend accounts with no explanation… just doesn’t seem worth it.
  • loceng 4y ago
    Arguably because there's no parallel system where all complaints a company receives must go to a government-public system to get more eyeballs on it, to actually determine case counts, and if a company adequately and thoroughly responds in all cases.
  • Nextgrid 4y ago
    There's no other option if you need access to a global market for niche goods. For common stuff, your local Craigslist equivalent is usually a better option, but let's say you have some niche/specialized industrial electronics, video game collectibles or retro consoles, etc.
    • Semaphor 4y ago
      > For common stuff, your local Craigslist equivalent is usually a better option Which, funnily enough, is eBay Kleinanzeigen (literally: eBay classifieds) here in Germany.
      • lovingCranberry 4y ago
        Fun fact: eBay Kleinanzeigen doesn't belong to eBay anymore. eBay Kleinanzeigen was bought some years ago by Adevinta (a Norwegian Company - eBay owns ~33% of Adevinta's stock). According to t-online.de [1] Adevinta only has the eBay name rights till 2024. After that date they either have to negotiate again, or use a different name than eBay Kleinanzeigen. [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20220425083124/https://www.t-online.de/digital/internet/id_90673814/ebay-kleinanzeigen-muss-ab-2024-anders-heissen.html https://web.archive.org/web/20220425083124/https://www.t-onl...
        • 4y ago
• lvass 4y ago
  Incredibly common on a certain LatAm fintech/marketplace as well. A lot of people with suspended accounts with funds, nonexistent support. This is why crypto unfortunately makes a lot of sense, not that it should, but it often does feel safer, specially in the third world.
  • cowpig 4y ago
    > crypto > safer ?????
    • donkarma 4y ago
      would love to know how you could practically chargeback someone's bitcoin after you send it to them
    • lvass 4y ago
      I guess that's a normal reaction when your money feels untouchable, almost sacred, stored in the world's reserve currency in one of the largest institutions. Digital money is no man's land (and unbearably inflationary) in some parts of the world, with crypto you can just actually take care of your damn keys and don't depend on trusting someone suspicious.
      • vorpalhex 4y ago
        How many crypto breaches have there been this year alone again? If hundreds of millions of dollars can be lost by professional crypto firms employing crypto engineers, what hope do Bob and Sally have?
        • lvass 4y ago
          Apples and oranges comparison. How many of those breaches were from people who stored their keys safely and didn't interact with smart contracts? That's something a person is able to do. Guaranteeing your fiat is safe in some places is simply impossible.
• minerva23 4y ago
  Clickbait hyperbolic title > robbery > n. 1) the direct taking of property from a person through force, threat or intimidation. Robbery is a felony. [1] “Screwed” is likely the word you wanted as it is a concept of justice and not criminality. [1] https://dictionary.law.com/Default.aspx?selected=1868 https://dictionary.law.com/Default.aspx?selected=1868
  • zmgsabst 4y ago
    I think seizing someone else’s money without legal basis when acting as a fiduciary rises to the level of fraud or theft. And for $4700, is likely a felony.
    • lbriner 4y ago
      In the UK, it would be purely civil since it would not be fraud (false representation for gain) or theft (taking without permission) automatically if EBay are unaware that there is actually a problem. If they took your money and you have proof, you take them to Court and get your money back. Annoying but hardly rare in the business world.
      • TheOtherHobbes 4y ago
        If you take them to court and win you get a piece of paper which says they should give you your money back. And that's all. Enforcing that piece of paper requires a further judgement and may require bailiffs and/or lawyers. At this point you will have paid out significant costs with no guarantee that you'll get any of your money back. It's fairly standard for small businesses to dodge debts. A company can declare itself insolvent and debts are either written off or a tiny percentage of the amount due is paid out. The directors can then start another company. Rinse and repeat. But taking a company like Ebay to small claims is very risky anyway. It's highly likely the T&Cs - which no one reads - are vague enough to allow a variety of defences while still technically being within the law. You'd need a good lawyer to argue otherwise, and that won't be cheap. Really, this kind of abuse should be handled at the regulatory level, with stiff penalties for systematic abuse of obligations, enforced by strong laws that don't allow for easy legal excuses.
• electric_mayhem 4y ago
  Why has Reddit deliberately broken browsing via web on mobile when it works just fine on desktop operating systems? To drive app installs? Completely asinine.
  • millzlane 4y ago
    It's not designed for us. It's for the others that would look at it and see nothing wrong with that.
  • mlindner 4y ago
    Replace the URL with old.reddit.com for a sane interface. Works on both desktop and phone.
    • SOLAR_FIELDS 4y ago
      "Works" is relative on a phone. I guess if you have laser vision and fingertips that are the size of a pen point it's great. I still use i.reddit.com for mobile. Blazing fast, zero ads, has most of the actually worthwhile functionality.
  • Thiez 4y ago
    Agreed. You can get a much better/faster mobile experience by simply adding an 'i.' in front of the hostname, like so: https://i.reddit.com/r/iamatotalpieceofshit/comments/uleq7s/ebay_robbed_this_man_of_4700_dollars_and/ https://i.reddit.com/r/iamatotalpieceofshit/comments/uleq7s/... . That way you will get the old mobile UI, which is a great way of browsing reddit on a mobile device without installing any apps.
  • YATA2 4y ago
    • orangepurple 4y ago
      It also underhandedly increases forum switching costs and thus drives stickiness
• treis 4y ago
  Anyone got a TLDW?
  • yellow_lead 4y ago
    Guy sold his camera on eBay, eBay holds the funds, eBay later suspends his account for "suspicious activity", 7+ months pass and he still hasn't received it. Support barely wants to talk to him.
• _fat_santa 4y ago
  Why do I get the feeling this happened: - Sale went through - Some internal bug occurred preventing money from being released - Customer calls and asks about the money, support staff can't figure it out. - Customer keeps calling because they want their money - "Hey this customer that want's his money is getting annoying, can we please ban him?"
  • PUSH_AX 4y ago
    Or the user violated some TOS? Occam's razor and all that.
    • sixothree 4y ago
      There are too many stories of legitimate users having this issue and the process is too opaque to be trusted for me to assume that.
    • sophacles 4y ago
      Im pretty sure I saw this in eBay's TOS: Consider yourself lucky to be empowered by eBay to make us money! If you are lucky, we may send you some money too. If you ask about your money you will be told to fuck off.
  • kingcharles 4y ago
    That's what happened with my bank (Square). They had a bug in their support script that wouldn't let them do a chargeback, so they just terminated my account to solve the problem. Bizarre.
  • pizza234 4y ago
    This is actually pretty normal. A person I know worked for FamousCompany's support, and told me that the support system was buggy (which is highly ironic, since FamousCompany is high tech, while the (bottom of the barrel) support system and (unqualified) employees are third party), but they couldn't say this to the customers, so they had to say b.s.
  • throwawayffffas 4y ago
• paulmd 4y ago
  Something really needs to be done about these "money transmitter" services. They essentially get all the power of a bank and none of the oversight, and de-facto there is very little way to avoid them when transacting on the internet. The EU can do giro transfers but in the US, if you want to send money and you don't want to do a check (which have a lot of gotchas, like availability-vs-clearance of funds) then you pretty much have to use a money transmitter service. And these stories have been happening for 15 years at this point, it feels like a matter of "when" they screw you more than "if" at this point. Pretty unlikely that constructive legislation gets passed in the US ever again though. We have passed the point-of-no-return where even the most obvious stuff can't get passed let alone if Paypal or whoever writes a big check to a congressperson to avoid regulation.
  • leetcrew 4y ago
    > Something really needs to be done about these "money transmitter" services. They essentially get all the power of a bank and none of the oversight, and de-facto there is very little way to avoid them when transacting on the internet. I guess it depends what kinds of transactions you are making on the internet... I have never used paypal or anything similar to send money to a stranger. I occasionally use venmo to send small sums to friends, but never an amount I would be sad to lose. if you want all the guarantees that come from dealing with a regulated financial institution, you should... go to your bank? they should be happy to set up an ach/wire transfer for you.
    • colpabar 4y ago
      Your argument is kind of similar to saying "we don't need to force cars to have seatbelts and airbags because I only ride a horse."
      • crmd 4y ago
        No, they are saying don't use the wrong tool for the job. We need low-friction services for splitting a dinner check and we also need highly regulated services for paying a freelancer or buying a car.
• TruthWillHurt 4y ago
  We need a site where people banned/snubbed by mega-corps can share their case and unite for action. We get the stories about Google, Apple, Facebook and the likes all the time. Strength in unity.
• RajT88 4y ago
  I have done some selling on eBay, and spent time reading through the support forums to understand how I should handle various situations. eBay generally sides with the buyer. Malicious buyers know this, and will buy things, and just claim they didn't get them and demand a refund. If you don't capitulate, they file a dispute, or outright report you for fraud. Chances are good they end up with free stuff, and as a seller you're SOL. For cheaper items, it's worth it to eat the cost instead of fighting it. /\--- I had this happen once, with a buyer from Belgium who bid up an item to more than it was worth. (At the time, no package tracking was available to Belgium - this is why some listers insist on "no international shipping" to this day)
  • bikingbismuth 4y ago
    PayPal hasn’t been a part of eBay since 2015.
    • etataetaet 4y ago
      Although true, from what I remember they still forced you to use PayPal for payouts until a year or two ago.
  • kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
    I've had a seller pull a tracking number and then never ship the item.
    • mod 4y ago
      I bought and sold a lot, and I've never had a bad experience as a buyer. About 10% of selling experiences were bad, whether because of scams or just shady or entitled buyers. Lastly, though I generally did my best, a few things that gave my buyers bad experiences have happened: 1) eBay sold items while I'm on vacation mode. I got about 5 hours away from home on a month long trip when they sold my item, despite me using their vacation mode option. This happened many times. 2) USPS delivery failing. We've all seen this, packages floating in loops, or never moving. Another time an item was claimed to be broken. Maybe it was, maybe scam. 3) eBay selling my items after I removed my store and unlisted everything. Eventually I had to literally delete all my listings. I had planned on just taking a break, but no way I'm entering all those again. Anyway a couple things sold and I just immediately returned the money and told them no.
• obnauticus 4y ago
  I had a similar bug happen to me with refunds Q1 of 2022. They withdrew money from my account mistakenly a few times and are still trying to resolve it. I suspended all transfers from my checking account to eBay and now they’re sending menacing emails. They still seem like they are unable to fix the problem and their systems are threatening me with collections even though their support teams openly admit it’s a mistake. Feel free to DM me as well, I seriously wonder if there is some security vulnerability being exploited here that eBay is either incompetent to find or is trying to cover up.
• mongol 4y ago
  Time for a lawsuit
• gandalfian 4y ago
  https://youtu.be/m9SK1pG_BLQ https://youtu.be/m9SK1pG_BLQ Nick Janssen original video I think, not clear if the Reddit submission has any connection to the video creator. All a little nonspecific to me.
• twofornone 4y ago
  I shipped 6 1080TIs out to a buyer a few years ago. He tore open the package and pretended that 4 of the cards were missing. This was a signature delivery, which means the buyer ostensibly accepted the package with a giant hole in it if his story is to be believed. Ebay immediately sided with the buyer and wouldn't help with the obvious scam until we took it to twitter and got the attention of some VP. We were out thousands of dollars.
  • tintor 4y ago
    Why do you believe that buyer was able to see and inspect the package before they signed it?
    • twofornone 4y ago
      Isn't that the point of a signature? An opportunity for a recipient to accept or reject a package based on it's condition?
      • leviathant 4y ago
        I live in Philadelphia behind a door with an entry code, and the only carrier that actually listens to the signature requirement is the USPS. My carrier rang my Nest doorbell to tell me he signed for me. (this was actually ideal, my mail carrier is amazing) UPS and USPS are pretty good about using the door code, FedEx is spotty at best. Lasership, DHL, etc., will drop the package at your door without even ringing the doorbell, and where I live, there's about a 15 minute window, if you're lucky, before someone else grabs the package.
  • uuyi 4y ago
    Had this on eBay a couple of times. You need to photograph the package before you send it inside and out if it’s worth anything significant. UPS and Hermes at least won’t pay out on delivery unless you have some evidence. Other option is hire someone with a chair leg to go and get the parts back. If it’s eBay look at their for sale list - some people are stupid enough to relist what “didn’t turn up”.
• joshgroban 4y ago
  Only a small proportion of people are actually going to sue, and often people like this guy come onto the site, sell one item, and leave. There is little reason to try to retain him, he's demonstrated no value to the company. There's a certain amount of money that can be made by banning single-sale accounts after receiving the funds and a smaller expected loss from lawsuits. Compound this with the fact that small claims courts are closed in many states and it's clear eBay is actually being very shrewd here. I get that it's sad to lose some money, but it's an important lesson that you can't just swoop in to benefit off of others' work without providing value yourself.
  • DocTomoe 4y ago
    And that's the exact reason we need some kind of "corporate death penalty" for companies who have demonstrated a history of scamming. When triggered, it liquidates the corporation, takes all the money, and bans anyone in management from starting a new business for 10 years.
• kirykl 4y ago
  Tangential fact, another way eBay robs sellers is charging sellers fees on the sales tax eBay opts to collect from buyers, at the same rate as the sold item’s category driven final value fee. Basically they end up collecting sales tax from buyer, as mandated by marketplace laws, but charge the seller typically 13% of the collected sales tax as a fee
  • user3939382 4y ago
    I agree. I’ve filed reports with multiple Attorneys General over this and written their executives about it but apparently nobody cares. F* scumbags.
  • gamblor956 4y ago
    In Hawaii they are actually required to do that. (Hawaii's GET is levied on the gross amount, recursively applied to any taxes, etc. passed on.) A few other states also tax marketplaces on their gross marketplace revenue, and the marketplaces reasonably pass those costs on to their sellers. Though these marketplace taxes are <1% of gross marketplace revenue, not 13% or whatever the local sales tax is.
• duxup 4y ago
  I wish we had some view of how the customer service dysfunction works at these companies. I get that they really don't 'care'. Programmatic bans happen and whatever. I just wonder that after someone finds some sort of avenue to contact these companies, what happens exactly? Are the front line customer service folks just instructed to close their ticket if they can't solve it? Does it get forwarded to some other customer service system where they do nothing?
• lizardactivist 4y ago
  I'm glad I have no connection to, or need of, Google Pay, Apple Pay, PayPal, e-bay, and similar large net-based services. It's almost like they're beginning to pull the same crap American insurance companies do, where they have policies to reject 10% of all claims regardless of validity, just to reduce expenses.
• dang 4y ago
  Recent and related: Tell HN: I was permanently banned from eBay in one hour - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31305341 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31305341 - May 2022 (422 comments) Also this from a few months ago: Your eBay account has been suspended - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29435091 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29435091 - Dec 2021 (141 comments)
• mherdeg 4y ago
  My cell phone carrier sent me a pair of Apple Airpods as a promotion after I signed up for an account. I didn't need them, so I snapped a photo of the box and used the eBay mobile app's "list by scanning this item's barcode" feature to list them for sale. Nobody bought them, so I lowered the price and re-listed them. Somebody made an offer that I accepted, then stopped responding for a week, so I cancelled the accepted offer and re-listed them again. eBay then sent me an email telling me that my listing had been removed because they had determined my Airpods were counterfeit. I sent an email to an executive CS contact asking "what is going on?" and eBay sent me another email telling me that my account had been suspended and I should never try to open a new one. So I took the Airpods out and paired them to an iPhone and obviously they work fine and aren't fake etc. If eBay has some special knowledge here I'd be happy to convey it to the police, Apple, Verizon, etc. Otherwise it's just kind of confusing?
  • mherdeg 4y ago
    Update: eBay exec customer service called me back today and said (1) They have removed the suspension on my account (2) They erroneously flagged my Airpods as counterfeit because (a) none of the photos in the listing clearly showed the serial number and the listing price was too low. This seems kind of odd to me as (a) I uploaded five photos, and the 3rd one showed most of the serial number but not the whole thing); (b) the listing price, $158, was higher than the highest offer I had previously gotten ($150) and about the same price as completed listings or a little higher. But I guess you just email exec CS with these erroneous fraud flags and you're all set.
• nichohel 4y ago
  Remember small claims court. Having just won $600 from a local company that damaged my property, I can say it works!
• astro19238_ 4y ago
  Can't he report it to the police? If this is not illegal I will start my own E-Bay asap.