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Boston University Undergraduate Costs Reach $80k

132 points by seibelj 4y ago

galoisscobi 4y ago
Doesn’t hurt the bottom line of universities if they raise tuition. Students just take out bigger loans. The price hikes won’t stop until it hurts their bottom line.
jacobrussell 4y ago
Related: [Colleges where everyone works and there's no tuition](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31309748 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31309748)
VintageCool 4y ago
Possible title change to clarify: this is $80k / year!
- wging 4y ago
  For reference (because we know titles are often changed): it's currently "Boston University Undergraduate Costs Reach $80k".
texaslonghorn5 4y ago
Anyone from the northeast have any thoughts on the relative quality of a UMass education (any campus) compared to BU?
- wly_cdgr 4y ago
  UMass Amherst is significantly more prestigious than BU - or at least it was ~20 years ago when I was applying to colleges. But Amherst is the one "good" UMass campus
  - voidfunc 4y ago
    Are you confusing UMass Amherst with Amherst College (generally considered an A-tier school)? I've never heard anyone say UMass Amherst is _significantly_ more prestigious than BU... they've always been fairly comparable other than BU having the urban Boston campus benefit.
    - wly_cdgr 4y ago
      Nope, I'm not. Amherst college is another tier or two above UMass Amherst, yeah I went to the best HS in the Northeast in the 90s and no one seriously considered BU, but UMass Amherst was a non-shameful safety. But I am out of the loop - things could have changed in 20+ years
- nr2x 4y ago
  Main value of urban campuses is they provide a leg up in the local job market, so UMass Boston could be good. Amherst I think has more research, but not much of a job market.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- seibelj 4y ago
  I went to BU for undergraduate and master’s degrees ~12 years ago. Was only (!!) $50k then but was still very expensive. The education is high quality and there are so many majors that they keep grading standards high as anyone can switch out to something easier (i.e. communications). That said BU is full of very rich foreigners, and fairly rich US students who couldn’t get into Ivy league schools for whatever reason. Some of the dorms and buildings are new and cutting edge, others are really old and shitty. Living in the newer dorms is significantly more money than the older ones, so the prices quoted at the link are for the shitty old buildings. I would not encourage anyone to go to BU who needed loans. I would recommend a merit scholarship or have rich parents. The price isn’t worth the degree or the experience.
- chc4 4y ago
  UMass schools are all pretty good. UMass Lowell is a pretty well regarded engineering school, UMass Amherst is consistently ranked highly nationally, Bridgewater State is a nice liberal arts college, etc. The majority of students in high school had UMass Amherst as their main choice - there probably is some amount of advantage to BU over state school, but it is a very large price difference especially if you are in-state.
- jonathanlei 4y ago
  Prospective student from the area here —- here are my two cents, but keep in mind these are the opinion of someone who doesn’t know what he is talking about. From an educational quality standpoint, they are comparable. I personally like the rural feeling of UMass Amherst a lot more than the city surroundings of Boston University. Educational quality also stems from the quality of your classmates. In that regard, UMass Amherst is a bit worse than Boston University, which has better rankings and attracts students whose families are more affluent. Finding a job with a BU degree is going to be easier than with an Amherst degree from what I understand. Personally, I’d choose UMass Amherst because it’s cheaper and some of my smart friends go there (due to affirmative action going to another level this past year blocking out Ivies for a bunch of Asians).
- voidfunc 4y ago
  I didn't attend UMass, but have had friends that went there and they seem fine a decade and some change after graduating. I think UMass education AND networking is on par with private schools that rank in the 50-100 tier (I went to one of those, I don't think I am any better because of it). College these days is mostly about getting a useful degree and building up a network... as long as the school gives your opportunities and has a decent alumni network it doesn't seem to matter much beyond that.
- vineyardmike 4y ago
  I'd attend BU and hire from BU before UMass Flagship, and certainly before non-flagship. That said, I wouldn't think poorly of someone with a UMass degree. I assume BU has a better professional network and more business connections to get a job. The volume of top-tier schools in the north east means that there is a subtle student brain-drain from state schools not found in other parts of country - this obviously applies only to students who can afford it of course, and smart people certainly attend UMass.
mmmmkay 4y ago
thought this was total...it's for 1 year...insane...
- shib71 4y ago
  In Australia, the fees for a four year engineering degree is around $30k AUD, and that's with very humane packback rules. $80k a _year_ is mindblowing. Rich folk and scholarship students I get, but why would anyone else go there?
- zdragnar 4y ago
  It's a private research university. Private schools might have more financial aid available, but they cost much more, and they are a research institution, which adds (mostly) pointless prestige to undergraduate degrees. That said, the growth of college tuitions is why you will find so many Americans skeptical of the value of college. The actual experience is nice, the things you learn might be useful, but the net value varies a lot depending on what you graduate with and when you do it. I very nearly went into legal studies, but there were a number of lawsuits against schools from former law students claiming the schools vastly overstated the number of graduates getting relevant jobs (the market got flooded, basically). Nowadays, it is fashionable to poke fun at gender studies and sports news and whatever other "fluff" degrees are out there, but it can happen to any degree really. When you're looking at a quarter of a million dollars or more of debt, you really need to think long and hard about what you plan to do about it. It's also why free college and federal student debt relief are such hard sells here. Unless the actual problem of the cost of tuition is resolved, it hardly makes sense to throw more money at the problem- it just encourages more of the same bloat caused by federally backed, easy access loans have caused in the first place
- abnry 4y ago
  I lived at home and went to a state school around 15 years ago. At the time, in-state tuition was something like $10k/year. I got around $10k in scholarships, so my education cost roughly $30k or $41k in today's money. This means one year at BU is two times the total cost of my education, time adjusted. Insane.
isuckatcoding 4y ago
More like 65k if you don’t live on campus and find something cheaper but also that is an insane amount to be paying. In comparison, some schools in Canada over 4 years don’t even cost that much
- seibelj 4y ago
  Living off campus in Boston within commuting distance of BU… going to be at least $1k per month assuming you have 5 roommates.
  - jjitz 4y ago
    Eh, there are some pretty cheap places in Allston and Brighton. Last spring I had a place for $700 (although it was a whole house rented w some of my classmates)
    - pishpash 4y ago
      You mean there are some sketchy places with rats living with you and addicts next door.
    - hattmall 4y ago
      Is that $700 per person or for the whole house? Trying to determine what you mean by cheap.
      - voidfunc 4y ago
        Almost certainly per-person. There is nothing in Boston that can be rented for $700 short of a broom closet and that might still fetch $1000.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
ardit33 4y ago
61.5k for tuition is just insane! It just doesn't make sense in any way. What are they teaching that deserves such insane tuition rates? Billed expenses for the 2022/2023 academic year* Tuition $61,050 Room (depending on type of accommodation) $11,260 Board (most dining plans) $6,140 Fees $1,310 TOTAL ESTIMATED BILLED EXPENSES $79,760 + Other expenses Books and Supplies $1,000 Personal Expenses $1,370 Local Transportation (average) $630 TOTAL OTHER EXPENSES $3,000 = Total Cost of Attendance $82,760 In comparison: Virginia Tech (a great school) out of state tuition is half of that: In-state tuition 13,749 USD, Out-of-state tuition 32,893 USD Radford University (the school I went to in Virginia) is even cheaper, 1/3rd of that: In-state tuition 11,416 USD, Out-of-state tuition 23,498 USD I am sorry, but if you choose to go on debt to a school like BU, it is your own fault for being so reckless. Can't complain later about 'school debt'. I think federal loans, should not be available to inefficient school systems/universities. At this point they are just helping the bloated administration salaries and the deans becoming rich, and thats it.
- asdff 4y ago
  They make up for it with financial aid. If you can only afford Radford, chances are BU offers an aid package to you that makes it comparable.
  - ardit33 4y ago
    So do Radford and V. Tech. They give generous aid packages as well.
    - asdff 4y ago
      But this way, for those who can afford the full tuition, BU and others can now get $80k from them and these other schools can only get $27k or whatever their max tuition is. There's definitely a huge benefit to being able to get all the cash you can from your rich students. Every college I've been to has a subset of kids driving lamborghinis and other luxury cars like that, but if that kid is in state they might only be paying $14k or whatever it is same as you. Seems like with it set up like this its you subsidizing them and not the other way around.
bluedays 4y ago
It's okay, this isn't a bubble.
Spooky23 4y ago
I love the phony “anyone with need” and “first year students will have needs met” lipstick they put on the pig.
skybrian 4y ago
I'm wondering how many students actually pay list price? (I mean, their parents.) With financial aid, this is probably more along the lines of "tell us how much you make and we'll tell you the price."
- LanceH 4y ago
  Tell me how much of a loan you qualify for and we'll tell you the price.
- Grokify 4y ago
  It would be great if that information was published. I received a full tuition scholarship to BU.
- metaphor 4y ago
  The Department of Education's College Scorecard for BU[1] suggests relatively few given the reported $30,395 average annual cost figure, which is described as: > The average annual net price that a student who receives federal financial aid pays to cover expenses (e.g., tuition, living expenses) to attend a school. Net price is the school's cost of attendance minus any grants and scholarships received. For public schools, this is only the average cost for in-state students. In comparison, Stanford's reported average annual cost[2] is $12,894. This makes sense given its student responsibility[3]. [1] https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/?164988-Boston-University https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/?164988-Boston-Univer... [2] https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/?243744-Stanford-University https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/?243744-Stanford-Univ... [3] https://financialaid.stanford.edu/undergrad/how/student.html https://financialaid.stanford.edu/undergrad/how/student.html
gwelson 4y ago
This is somewhat misleading as the initial part of their page says `BU meets 100% of demonstrated financial need for all admitted, first-year students who are US citizens or permanent residents.` — BU is part of a small number (in the dozens maybe) of private US colleges/universities that are "need blind", which can basically be thought of as "price discrimination" from microeconomics. Wealthier families would pay full price, while less-advantaged students pay a more reasonable amount of money. At these schools the total out of pocket cost ends up being roughly comparable (if not less) than going to a state university would be. I went to a similar school and the out of pocket cost was far less than going to my state university as an in-state student would have been, and I got a much better education. Obviously $80k is still an obscene amount of money, but I don't really have an issue with kids of millionaires + billionaires having to pay that much to attend. I think that what this means in the long-run is that this small number of very highly resourced private colleges (Ivies, a lot of the small New England liberal arts schools, Duke, MIT, etc.) will be able to sustain "normal" people going there on the need-blind aid, and lower-ranked private institutions (out of the top 50-100 schools) will probably close if they can't afford to offer that level of aid.
- jonchang 4y ago
  > I think that what this means in the long-run is that this small number of very highly resourced private colleges (Ivies, a lot of the small New England liberal arts schools, Duke, MIT, etc.) will be able to sustain "normal" people going there on the need-blind aid, and lower-ranked private institutions (out of the top 50-100 schools) will probably close if they can't afford to offer that level of aid. The term here to look for is "tuition discount rate" which is how many students actually pay the full price. You are correct in suggesting that high discount rates mean that only the extremely well-resourced schools will be able to compete for students who aren't able to afford the full price of college. Here's IHE's summary of a study about 2020's numbers: https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2021/05/20/private-colleges-cut-539-tuition-sticker-price-freshmen-average https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2021/05/20/private-colle... > “Tuition discounting strategies come at a heavy cost for many colleges and universities, especially those that forgo a significant amount of tuition revenue to expand educational affordability for students and/or to meet enrollment goals,” the study said.
wly_cdgr 4y ago
Even an Ivy isn't worth that - not these days, anyway. Maybe before the internet it might have been worth it
daniel-thompson 4y ago
> What Is the Cost of Attendance? > Probably less than you think. > ... > Total Cost of Attendance $82,760 How in the world can someone write this copy with a straight face?
- rottencupcakes 4y ago
  This answer describes what they're referring to there: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31309948 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31309948
- x-shadowban 4y ago
  "total", per year or for all 4 years
  - ww520 4y ago
    Per year
- etempleton 4y ago
  A decade or so ago most families paid full price at most colleges/universities in the US. That is not the case today. You see a lot of opinion pieces talking about how high tuition prices are at colleges and how the pricing is out of control, but what isn't talked about is that most of these schools are now discounting their tuition increasingly every year. Typically it is on a sliding scale based on need. For some of the Ivy league schools tuition is free if you are anything below upper middle income. Universities do this by pulling a small percentage from their endowments each year (think of a retiree pulling 2% of investments each year while still growing the retirement nest egg by 4%). That is exactly what colleges are doing. Bigger endowments = bigger discount rate = better quality of students attending = better (hopefully) students = better reputation. At least that is how the thinking goes. Google "Boston University." On the right of it will tell you the tuition and average cost of attendance, including cost by income bracket. Cost Before Aid: $77,662 After Aid:$30,259
  - pishpash 4y ago
deleted 4y ago
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KennyBlanken 4y ago
BU is an undergraduate diploma mill; always has been. Back in the 80's and 90's Silber (who was basically a late 1900's puritan) cared more with keeping students from fucking each other in the dorms than he did the curriculum. Around a decade ago I dated someone who worked as an assistant professor and she was told in no uncertain terms to give passing grades to the NCAA hockey players taking her class. None of them had attended a single lecture or turned in a single assignment. These days BU is where ultra-wealthy Chinese send their kids who aren't smart enough to for Harvard or MIT. You can spot them a mile away in wintertime if they're out walking; every single one of them owns a $1000 Canada Goose parka. You won't find them on public transit, because they're driving top-end luxury/hyper cars.
- voidfunc 4y ago
  Spot on with the foreign money thing... I live downtown and they're all living in the new Theater District and North Station buildings. I've got some friends in one of the newer condo buildings downtown and they have been really annoyed by how much the building is like a dorm. Foreign money buys up million dollar units and lets their kids stay in them while they are in school. Kids in turn throw noisy parties and do generally stupid 18-21 year old crap that pisses off the regular residents.
TulliusCicero 4y ago
Unbankruptable student loans should have a hard cap proportional to the median expected earnings for a given major. I know that the purpose of college degree isn't just to make a lot of money, but if you can't make a lot of money, you shouldn't be able to take out 100k+ in loans that's legally protected from being removed in bankruptcy. Of course, the real solution here should just be free public college + clampdowns on cost overruns so that it's practical to fund. Less money on nice dorms and endless administrators and whichever sports lose money. We used to have cheap college, and it's possible to get back there. Find what changed over the decades and cut back.
- hn_throwaway_99 4y ago
  I actually think the real solution is that student loans should be dischargeable in bankruptcy. I think it is a much better, easier and fairer fix than just cancelling some student loans. Since student loans aren't dischargeable, it means that lenders have no incentive to do any due diligence. On the contrary, their incentive is to load students up with as much debt as possible. Yes, making student loans dischargeable would mean fewer students would get loans, but that's the point. Lenders shouldn't be giving out hundreds of thousands of dollars to students whose career options would then put them in indentured servitude for decades.
  - not_exactly__ 4y ago
    Why throwaway? This is a good take.
  - coryrc 4y ago
    > Yes, making student loans dischargeable would mean fewer students would get loans That pretty much defeats the point of the system, to give loans to poor people to give them a chance.
  - chime 4y ago
    > it means that lenders have no incentive to do any due diligence. That's hard to do because young students haven't had time to build credit history, you can't extrapolate creditworthiness from SAT/ACT scores without hurting students from poorly-funded education systems, and most importantly by rejecting to offer loans, you are preventing a student from a shot at their dream school which could pull a whole family out of poverty in a decade. The problem isn't how the loans should be disbursed, managed, repaid, or forgiven. The problem is that the base tuition is so high that students need loans. Loans should be for housing, gym memberships, extra-curriculars. I am absolutely ok with my Federal, state, and local taxes funding actual education, not college stadiums. This would also incentivize schools to reduce costs for the basic education and charge people who can afford to pay for the full "college experience." But over the years state governments keep cutting funding for colleges and universities and students keep having to take out loans. And since loans are easy to get and cannot be discharged, everyone is incentivized to do anything to get more students who will pay a higher tuition. It is a terrible cycle that I hope either gets obsoleted by virtual education, trade schools, or some miracle.
rdl 4y ago
LOL. I had to drop out of (MIT, not BU, but w/e) due to not being able to get financial aid (even though I think it was technically during the "we will give you as much financial aid as you need to attend" era), due to parents having income marginally higher than some federal cutoffs but unwilling to provide documentation or loans. Ultimately worked out fine, but I'm pretty unsympathetic to the "soak people for $82k/yr and then offer some discounts" price discrimination lie.
- LigmaYC 4y ago
  Agreed. The financial aid also fools people into believing 80k per year is not insanely greedy pricing.
- silisili 4y ago
  Similarly, I didn't attend some schools I was accepted to because the debt would have crushed me. That's why I don't get the big push for canceling student loans. It feels like rewarding people for irresponsible behavior, and ultimately punishing those who acted responsibly. Further, I expect it would drive tuitions even higher. Who cares what it costs if you don't have to pay...
  - dgfitz 4y ago
    Canceling student loans is purely a political play. I agree wholeheartedly with your opinion. I worked my way through school, granted it was 50k all told over 4 years instead of whatever the hell it costs now. Maybe my ignorance is showing, but putting a cap on loan amounts for undergrad would probably protect the student quite a bit.
    - rdl 4y ago
      I'd rather just make student debt "regular" debt, i.e. dischargeable through bankruptcy. Maybe secured by the actual diploma, so you can't claim to be a graduate if you default on the debt, but you'd obviously have the education. This changed in 2005, under GWB, and was not the worst thing he did (screwing up Afghanistan, invading Iraq, PATRIOT, TSA, ...) but was still a bad thing he did.
hn_throwaway_99 4y ago
For those who aren't familiar, BU was pretty well known (at least a couple decades ago) for being a "rich kids" school. That is, it had a reputation as a quality school, but tuition was always high there (considerably higher than what you'd pay at an Ivy) and so it seemed to attract wealthy kids. I'd put other colleges like USC in LA or Emory University in Atlanta as having similar reputations: good (but not great) private universities with sky high tuitions. Just pointing this out because the fact that one US university has super high base tuition rates (before any financial aid) doesn't mean it's necessarily representative of much more.
- KennyBlanken 4y ago
- selimthegrim 4y ago
  The problem is that USC and Emory have really upped their endowments and research game as well while places like Tulane have sort of chugged along.
- freetime2 4y ago
  Yup I have a relative who attended BU, and I remember hearing stories of some insanely rich kids from overseas. Like children of Russian oligarchs and the Saudi royal family levels of wealthy. I have no problem if they want to spend $80k/yr to educate their kids in Boston.
daxaxelrod 4y ago
Just to clarify, when they say "100%" of need, is that exclusively grants/scholarships or does that also include loans?
usui 4y ago
This annual tuition cost isn't real. It almost never is. It's the same thing as listing the total cost for medical bills: It goes to health insurance, not you.
- hn_throwaway_99 4y ago
  That's not true at all. This article says 45% of students receive need-based aid, meaning 55% don't: https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/boston-university-2130/paying https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/boston-university-2130/... Yes, other students may be receiving merit-based aid, but a large percentage of their student body is paying the full cost.
testfoobar 4y ago
Is this another hedge fund masquerading as a university?
deleted 4y ago
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alberth 4y ago
University of Chicago is projected to be the first $100k/year tuition. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21442807 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21442807
aantix 4y ago
>"What Is the Cost of Attendance?" >"Probably less than you think." No, it was not less than I thought, BU..
Agamus 4y ago
The solution is and always has been to cut the fluff from the academies. For context, go add up the salaries the 'student services' area of the expensive school of your choice. Having worked for one such office for ~15 years, the most appalling part was that they are largely antagonistic toward the faculty and mission of the schools. The waste is dizzying.
- daxaxelrod 4y ago
  Was there ever a layoff/pay cut in those 15 years?
- pishpash 4y ago
  But who would cut it unless there is financial discipline from the lack of funds? You need to turn off the spigot first.
  - Agamus 4y ago
    Turning off this spigot should be our biggest national security concern, in my opinion.
- monissiddiqui 4y ago
  The iron law of bureaucracy in action. > Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy states that in any bureaucratic organization there will be two kinds of people": > First, there will be those who are devoted to the goals of the organization. Examples are dedicated classroom teachers in an educational bureaucracy, many of the engineers and launch technicians and scientists at NASA, even some agricultural scientists and advisors in the former Soviet Union collective farming administration. > Secondly, there will be those dedicated to the organization itself. Examples are many of the administrators in the education system, many professors of education, many teachers union officials, much of the NASA headquarters staff, etc. > The Iron Law states that in every case the second group will gain and keep control of the organization. It will write the rules, and control promotions within the organization. https://www.jerrypournelle.com/reports/jerryp/iron.html https://www.jerrypournelle.com/reports/jerryp/iron.html
seshagiric 4y ago
Expat here, $80K*4 = $320K for college education? how is this sustainable.
- PragmaticPulp 4y ago
  Very few people actually pay that amount. It's meant to be a high ceiling for the most wealthy people. The average price is still very high at around $30K/year, which is 50% higher than the national average of $20K/year ( https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/?164988-Boston-University https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/?164988-Boston-Univer... ) But the average student definitely isn't paying $80K/year to go to Boston University.
voidfunc 4y ago
I am so thankful I went to college 15ish years ago and my parents were able to do it without loans... our future is so fucked with the way we are burying our young under ridiculous amounts of debt.
3qz 4y ago
More than double the price of some entire degrees in Canada
aabajian 4y ago
Personal example, I almost did an MD/PhD at BU. Almost every MD/PhD is fully-funded due to the time commitment and presumed loss of 4-5 years of attending-level salary. BU's MD/PhD program is not fully funded...you have to pay for your living expenses all throughout the MD years, not an easy price to stomach in Boston (see: https://www.bumc.bu.edu/mdphd/admissions/funding/ https://www.bumc.bu.edu/mdphd/admissions/funding/).
hedora 4y ago
Assuming no overhead: If professors are making 250K / year, and the average course load per student is 4 courses, the class size is twenty, and each professor teaches two class sections per semester, student tuition would be $25K. Professors make much less, course sizes are much larger, and tuition is at least double my estimate. My conclusion? Professors with teaching positions should unionize or just found separate, low overhead universities that are optimized to provide higher education.
- queuebert 4y ago
  I'm a prof, and I would take a pay cut to work at a such a place. The waste at my institution is sickening.
- colinmhayes 4y ago
  Students aren't going to BU for the professors and the administration knows that. Most are just their to get the piece of paper from a prestigious institution.
whazor 4y ago
There are lots of European universities with great English bachelor programs. My university, Eindhoven University of Technology, has a bachelor program for €11,600 a year. You have to be on time with signup and be lucky with the lottery (also check out Delft and other EU universities). A room would be around 500 to 700 euro's per month.
brailsafe 4y ago
Is that $80k per year!? What. The. Fuck. Batman.
JoeJonathan 4y ago
As others have pointed out, and as a few media outlets have increasingly covered, there's a big difference between sticker price and net price. A minority of students at private universities pay full sticker price, and if I had to guess, I'd say most are wealthy foreign students (who are effectively subsidizing domestic students' education). Colleges—as well as sites like US News—should figure out a way to more effectively communicate average cost, or a typical cost range, after non-loan student aid. Student loans are another issue entirely. I agree with other commenters that universal student loan forgiveness isn't a long term solution to the student debt problem, and I think we should focus on expanding and simplifying programs like PSLF (Public Service Loan Forgiveness). That said, I don't find the rational-choice argument ("I ran the numbers and determined X, and did Y") persuasive. Few 18-year-olds have an expansive enough understanding of the world to accurately assess student loan burden against potential future earnings. Finally, we forgive and renegotiate all kinds of debt all the time. Why can't we do the same for student loans? Why are student loan interest rates set a decade in advance by Congress? The system makes no sense.
fortran77 4y ago
And why not? They can borrow money for it and the government will forgive it. I'd bet if the Government stopped backing student loans, tuitions will drop like a rock.
gjmacd 4y ago
Major colleges are an absolute ripoff. If I asked you to give me $250K so that I could give you an $80K salary to start, which isn't a given, would you take that investment? Community and state schools (and even state schools are too high) are the better way to go. Something has to give...
jsiaajdsdaa 4y ago
I'm gonna come out and say that this is too much money to pay vis a vis the starting salary of a developer. I would highly suggest just getting any cheap degree from anywhere because every recruiter I talk to doesn't care where you went.
graycat 4y ago
As I look back on ugrad school, I conclude "Don't pay a lot for ugrad school." I can think of maybe three exceptions -- Harvard, Princeton, and Stanford, and not for the education but for who you meet. For the education, basically DIY -- do it yourself. Blunt truth: For a really good education, 'bout have to DIY anyway. How to do that? Mostly books. Now supplemented with the Internet. Maybe some help from a few profs. For the books, etc. find what looks like the best courses in all of the US and use those to build your own reading list. For a good education, need to do that anyway: Blunt truth, ugrad school is a busy time and won't get as much as you want. So, will leave with a diploma but also with a nice collection of materials have not carefully studied yet. Another blunt fact: Say, 3 courses each semester, two semesters per year, 4 years -- 24 courses. If you have as many as 4 of those really good, you are lucky. Usually the teaching really isn't very good, guys. Another blunt fact: ASAP, already by 8th grade, via parents, uncles, friends, whatever, try to get into, connected with, know about what is going on outside high school and college and relevant to your career options and, thus, also relevant to what you study in college. If a college can help get you connected with some promising real career directions, great, but don't count on it. Blunt fact: You have a good shot at getting about the best ugrad education possible by doing a lot of DIY, making your own investigations and connections, and going to a rather cheap state university and living cheap at home. The Internet has a lot of video clips of lectures in courses from famous universities, profs, etc. These clips expose the truth: There is a lot of poor teaching out there, and really good material is rare. In short, the person best to manage, direct, design your ugrad education is you. Don't just passively lean back and take what is given -- instead as here, be active, DIY, etc.
- imranq 4y ago
  This is all spot on from my experience, and possibly summarized by Will Huntings quote “You wasted $150,000 on an education you coulda got for $1.50 in late fees at the public library.” Also many of the top companies (Tesla, Google, etc.) no longer require degrees to apply and get hired
queuebert 4y ago
The federal government could fix this instantly if they capped the tuition that could be charged as a condition of receiving federal grant money. That is an unbelievable lever for research institutions at least.
ab_testing 4y ago
Expect them to increase more if the government tries to waive off student loans. The universities have no incentive to reduce tuition if they know that the taxpayer will pick up the tab in a few years once the student is unable to pay back his loans.
jb3689 4y ago
State school was a great decision. Still working for top tech now. Pretty much everyone I know who went to a state school is doing fine
- freetime2 4y ago
  Or another option that I've heard of in several states is to do two years at community college, and then transfer to a state college. Some of the benefits of these programs are that acceptance to a state college is guaranteed provided the student maintains a certain GPA, and there are also some pretty generous financial aid benefits. [1] I think this is something that should be encouraged much more often for students graduating from high school - especially for kids who don't really know what they want to do yet. Maybe take a year or two off, experience the real world and grow up a bit, and then do an associate's degree followed by a bachelor's degree. Or else maybe learn a trade. Or join the military. I've known a lot of people who took big loans and went straight into college after high school, and ended up dropping out. Maybe they weren't ready yet, or maybe college just wasn't right for them. And the costs - both financial and developmental - can be pretty devastating. [1] https://www.mass.edu/masstransfer/macomcom/home.asp https://www.mass.edu/masstransfer/macomcom/home.asp
TimPC 4y ago
Other countries make government funding of universities and government funding of student loans for those same institutions conditional on price controls. What’s wrong with saying the US government gives no research money, no funding dollars and no student loans to students attending Harvard unless Harvard agrees to keep tuitions below a certain number?
wdr1 4y ago
My alma mater, University of Chicago, is currently clocking in at a staggering $85k. https://financialaid.uchicago.edu/undergraduate/costs https://financialaid.uchicago.edu/undergraduate/costs That said, they offer free tuition for families making less than $125k.
deleted 4y ago
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132 points by seibelj 4y ago

Doesn’t hurt the bottom line of universities if they raise tuition. Students just take out bigger loans. The price hikes won’t stop until it hurts their bottom line.

jacobrussell 4y ago

Related: [Colleges where everyone works and there's no tuition](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31309748 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31309748)

VintageCool 4y ago

Possible title change to clarify: this is $80k / year!

wging 4y ago
For reference (because we know titles are often changed): it's currently "Boston University Undergraduate Costs Reach $80k".

texaslonghorn5 4y ago

Anyone from the northeast have any thoughts on the relative quality of a UMass education (any campus) compared to BU?

wly_cdgr 4y ago
UMass Amherst is significantly more prestigious than BU - or at least it was ~20 years ago when I was applying to colleges. But Amherst is the one "good" UMass campus
- voidfunc 4y ago
  Are you confusing UMass Amherst with Amherst College (generally considered an A-tier school)? I've never heard anyone say UMass Amherst is _significantly_ more prestigious than BU... they've always been fairly comparable other than BU having the urban Boston campus benefit.
  - wly_cdgr 4y ago
    Nope, I'm not. Amherst college is another tier or two above UMass Amherst, yeah I went to the best HS in the Northeast in the 90s and no one seriously considered BU, but UMass Amherst was a non-shameful safety. But I am out of the loop - things could have changed in 20+ years
nr2x 4y ago
Main value of urban campuses is they provide a leg up in the local job market, so UMass Boston could be good. Amherst I think has more research, but not much of a job market.
deleted 4y ago
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seibelj 4y ago
I went to BU for undergraduate and master’s degrees ~12 years ago. Was only (!!) $50k then but was still very expensive. The education is high quality and there are so many majors that they keep grading standards high as anyone can switch out to something easier (i.e. communications). That said BU is full of very rich foreigners, and fairly rich US students who couldn’t get into Ivy league schools for whatever reason. Some of the dorms and buildings are new and cutting edge, others are really old and shitty. Living in the newer dorms is significantly more money than the older ones, so the prices quoted at the link are for the shitty old buildings. I would not encourage anyone to go to BU who needed loans. I would recommend a merit scholarship or have rich parents. The price isn’t worth the degree or the experience.
chc4 4y ago
UMass schools are all pretty good. UMass Lowell is a pretty well regarded engineering school, UMass Amherst is consistently ranked highly nationally, Bridgewater State is a nice liberal arts college, etc. The majority of students in high school had UMass Amherst as their main choice - there probably is some amount of advantage to BU over state school, but it is a very large price difference especially if you are in-state.
jonathanlei 4y ago
Prospective student from the area here —- here are my two cents, but keep in mind these are the opinion of someone who doesn’t know what he is talking about. From an educational quality standpoint, they are comparable. I personally like the rural feeling of UMass Amherst a lot more than the city surroundings of Boston University. Educational quality also stems from the quality of your classmates. In that regard, UMass Amherst is a bit worse than Boston University, which has better rankings and attracts students whose families are more affluent. Finding a job with a BU degree is going to be easier than with an Amherst degree from what I understand. Personally, I’d choose UMass Amherst because it’s cheaper and some of my smart friends go there (due to affirmative action going to another level this past year blocking out Ivies for a bunch of Asians).
voidfunc 4y ago
I didn't attend UMass, but have had friends that went there and they seem fine a decade and some change after graduating. I think UMass education AND networking is on par with private schools that rank in the 50-100 tier (I went to one of those, I don't think I am any better because of it). College these days is mostly about getting a useful degree and building up a network... as long as the school gives your opportunities and has a decent alumni network it doesn't seem to matter much beyond that.
vineyardmike 4y ago
I'd attend BU and hire from BU before UMass Flagship, and certainly before non-flagship. That said, I wouldn't think poorly of someone with a UMass degree. I assume BU has a better professional network and more business connections to get a job. The volume of top-tier schools in the north east means that there is a subtle student brain-drain from state schools not found in other parts of country - this obviously applies only to students who can afford it of course, and smart people certainly attend UMass.

mmmmkay 4y ago

thought this was total...it's for 1 year...insane...

shib71 4y ago
In Australia, the fees for a four year engineering degree is around $30k AUD, and that's with very humane packback rules. $80k a _year_ is mindblowing. Rich folk and scholarship students I get, but why would anyone else go there?
zdragnar 4y ago
It's a private research university. Private schools might have more financial aid available, but they cost much more, and they are a research institution, which adds (mostly) pointless prestige to undergraduate degrees. That said, the growth of college tuitions is why you will find so many Americans skeptical of the value of college. The actual experience is nice, the things you learn might be useful, but the net value varies a lot depending on what you graduate with and when you do it. I very nearly went into legal studies, but there were a number of lawsuits against schools from former law students claiming the schools vastly overstated the number of graduates getting relevant jobs (the market got flooded, basically). Nowadays, it is fashionable to poke fun at gender studies and sports news and whatever other "fluff" degrees are out there, but it can happen to any degree really. When you're looking at a quarter of a million dollars or more of debt, you really need to think long and hard about what you plan to do about it. It's also why free college and federal student debt relief are such hard sells here. Unless the actual problem of the cost of tuition is resolved, it hardly makes sense to throw more money at the problem- it just encourages more of the same bloat caused by federally backed, easy access loans have caused in the first place
abnry 4y ago
I lived at home and went to a state school around 15 years ago. At the time, in-state tuition was something like $10k/year. I got around $10k in scholarships, so my education cost roughly $30k or $41k in today's money. This means one year at BU is two times the total cost of my education, time adjusted. Insane.

isuckatcoding 4y ago

More like 65k if you don’t live on campus and find something cheaper but also that is an insane amount to be paying. In comparison, some schools in Canada over 4 years don’t even cost that much

seibelj 4y ago
Living off campus in Boston within commuting distance of BU… going to be at least $1k per month assuming you have 5 roommates.
- jjitz 4y ago
  Eh, there are some pretty cheap places in Allston and Brighton. Last spring I had a place for $700 (although it was a whole house rented w some of my classmates)
  - pishpash 4y ago
    You mean there are some sketchy places with rats living with you and addicts next door.
  - hattmall 4y ago
    Is that $700 per person or for the whole house? Trying to determine what you mean by cheap.
    - voidfunc 4y ago
      Almost certainly per-person. There is nothing in Boston that can be rented for $700 short of a broom closet and that might still fetch $1000.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]

ardit33 4y ago

61.5k for tuition is just insane! It just doesn't make sense in any way. What are they teaching that deserves such insane tuition rates? Billed expenses for the 2022/2023 academic year* Tuition $61,050 Room (depending on type of accommodation) $11,260 Board (most dining plans) $6,140 Fees $1,310 TOTAL ESTIMATED BILLED EXPENSES $79,760 + Other expenses Books and Supplies $1,000 Personal Expenses $1,370 Local Transportation (average) $630 TOTAL OTHER EXPENSES $3,000 = Total Cost of Attendance $82,760 In comparison: Virginia Tech (a great school) out of state tuition is half of that: In-state tuition 13,749 USD, Out-of-state tuition 32,893 USD Radford University (the school I went to in Virginia) is even cheaper, 1/3rd of that: In-state tuition 11,416 USD, Out-of-state tuition 23,498 USD I am sorry, but if you choose to go on debt to a school like BU, it is your own fault for being so reckless. Can't complain later about 'school debt'. I think federal loans, should not be available to inefficient school systems/universities. At this point they are just helping the bloated administration salaries and the deans becoming rich, and thats it.

asdff 4y ago
They make up for it with financial aid. If you can only afford Radford, chances are BU offers an aid package to you that makes it comparable.
- ardit33 4y ago
  So do Radford and V. Tech. They give generous aid packages as well.
  - asdff 4y ago
    But this way, for those who can afford the full tuition, BU and others can now get $80k from them and these other schools can only get $27k or whatever their max tuition is. There's definitely a huge benefit to being able to get all the cash you can from your rich students. Every college I've been to has a subset of kids driving lamborghinis and other luxury cars like that, but if that kid is in state they might only be paying $14k or whatever it is same as you. Seems like with it set up like this its you subsidizing them and not the other way around.

bluedays 4y ago

It's okay, this isn't a bubble.

Spooky23 4y ago

I love the phony “anyone with need” and “first year students will have needs met” lipstick they put on the pig.

skybrian 4y ago

I'm wondering how many students actually pay list price? (I mean, their parents.) With financial aid, this is probably more along the lines of "tell us how much you make and we'll tell you the price."

LanceH 4y ago
Tell me how much of a loan you qualify for and we'll tell you the price.
Grokify 4y ago
It would be great if that information was published. I received a full tuition scholarship to BU.
metaphor 4y ago
The Department of Education's College Scorecard for BU[1] suggests relatively few given the reported $30,395 average annual cost figure, which is described as: > The average annual net price that a student who receives federal financial aid pays to cover expenses (e.g., tuition, living expenses) to attend a school. Net price is the school's cost of attendance minus any grants and scholarships received. For public schools, this is only the average cost for in-state students. In comparison, Stanford's reported average annual cost[2] is $12,894. This makes sense given its student responsibility[3]. [1] https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/?164988-Boston-University https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/?164988-Boston-Univer... [2] https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/?243744-Stanford-University https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/?243744-Stanford-Univ... [3] https://financialaid.stanford.edu/undergrad/how/student.html https://financialaid.stanford.edu/undergrad/how/student.html

gwelson 4y ago

This is somewhat misleading as the initial part of their page says `BU meets 100% of demonstrated financial need for all admitted, first-year students who are US citizens or permanent residents.` — BU is part of a small number (in the dozens maybe) of private US colleges/universities that are "need blind", which can basically be thought of as "price discrimination" from microeconomics. Wealthier families would pay full price, while less-advantaged students pay a more reasonable amount of money. At these schools the total out of pocket cost ends up being roughly comparable (if not less) than going to a state university would be. I went to a similar school and the out of pocket cost was far less than going to my state university as an in-state student would have been, and I got a much better education. Obviously $80k is still an obscene amount of money, but I don't really have an issue with kids of millionaires + billionaires having to pay that much to attend. I think that what this means in the long-run is that this small number of very highly resourced private colleges (Ivies, a lot of the small New England liberal arts schools, Duke, MIT, etc.) will be able to sustain "normal" people going there on the need-blind aid, and lower-ranked private institutions (out of the top 50-100 schools) will probably close if they can't afford to offer that level of aid.

jonchang 4y ago
> I think that what this means in the long-run is that this small number of very highly resourced private colleges (Ivies, a lot of the small New England liberal arts schools, Duke, MIT, etc.) will be able to sustain "normal" people going there on the need-blind aid, and lower-ranked private institutions (out of the top 50-100 schools) will probably close if they can't afford to offer that level of aid. The term here to look for is "tuition discount rate" which is how many students actually pay the full price. You are correct in suggesting that high discount rates mean that only the extremely well-resourced schools will be able to compete for students who aren't able to afford the full price of college. Here's IHE's summary of a study about 2020's numbers: https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2021/05/20/private-colleges-cut-539-tuition-sticker-price-freshmen-average https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2021/05/20/private-colle... > “Tuition discounting strategies come at a heavy cost for many colleges and universities, especially those that forgo a significant amount of tuition revenue to expand educational affordability for students and/or to meet enrollment goals,” the study said.

wly_cdgr 4y ago

Even an Ivy isn't worth that - not these days, anyway. Maybe before the internet it might have been worth it

daniel-thompson 4y ago

> What Is the Cost of Attendance? > Probably less than you think. > ... > Total Cost of Attendance $82,760 How in the world can someone write this copy with a straight face?

rottencupcakes 4y ago
This answer describes what they're referring to there: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31309948 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31309948
x-shadowban 4y ago
"total", per year or for all 4 years
- ww520 4y ago
  Per year
etempleton 4y ago
A decade or so ago most families paid full price at most colleges/universities in the US. That is not the case today. You see a lot of opinion pieces talking about how high tuition prices are at colleges and how the pricing is out of control, but what isn't talked about is that most of these schools are now discounting their tuition increasingly every year. Typically it is on a sliding scale based on need. For some of the Ivy league schools tuition is free if you are anything below upper middle income. Universities do this by pulling a small percentage from their endowments each year (think of a retiree pulling 2% of investments each year while still growing the retirement nest egg by 4%). That is exactly what colleges are doing. Bigger endowments = bigger discount rate = better quality of students attending = better (hopefully) students = better reputation. At least that is how the thinking goes. Google "Boston University." On the right of it will tell you the tuition and average cost of attendance, including cost by income bracket. Cost Before Aid: $77,662 After Aid:$30,259
- pishpash 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

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KennyBlanken 4y ago

BU is an undergraduate diploma mill; always has been. Back in the 80's and 90's Silber (who was basically a late 1900's puritan) cared more with keeping students from fucking each other in the dorms than he did the curriculum. Around a decade ago I dated someone who worked as an assistant professor and she was told in no uncertain terms to give passing grades to the NCAA hockey players taking her class. None of them had attended a single lecture or turned in a single assignment. These days BU is where ultra-wealthy Chinese send their kids who aren't smart enough to for Harvard or MIT. You can spot them a mile away in wintertime if they're out walking; every single one of them owns a $1000 Canada Goose parka. You won't find them on public transit, because they're driving top-end luxury/hyper cars.

voidfunc 4y ago
Spot on with the foreign money thing... I live downtown and they're all living in the new Theater District and North Station buildings. I've got some friends in one of the newer condo buildings downtown and they have been really annoyed by how much the building is like a dorm. Foreign money buys up million dollar units and lets their kids stay in them while they are in school. Kids in turn throw noisy parties and do generally stupid 18-21 year old crap that pisses off the regular residents.

TulliusCicero 4y ago

Unbankruptable student loans should have a hard cap proportional to the median expected earnings for a given major. I know that the purpose of college degree isn't just to make a lot of money, but if you can't make a lot of money, you shouldn't be able to take out 100k+ in loans that's legally protected from being removed in bankruptcy. Of course, the real solution here should just be free public college + clampdowns on cost overruns so that it's practical to fund. Less money on nice dorms and endless administrators and whichever sports lose money. We used to have cheap college, and it's possible to get back there. Find what changed over the decades and cut back.

hn_throwaway_99 4y ago
I actually think the real solution is that student loans should be dischargeable in bankruptcy. I think it is a much better, easier and fairer fix than just cancelling some student loans. Since student loans aren't dischargeable, it means that lenders have no incentive to do any due diligence. On the contrary, their incentive is to load students up with as much debt as possible. Yes, making student loans dischargeable would mean fewer students would get loans, but that's the point. Lenders shouldn't be giving out hundreds of thousands of dollars to students whose career options would then put them in indentured servitude for decades.
- not_exactly__ 4y ago
  Why throwaway? This is a good take.
- coryrc 4y ago
  > Yes, making student loans dischargeable would mean fewer students would get loans That pretty much defeats the point of the system, to give loans to poor people to give them a chance.
- chime 4y ago
  > it means that lenders have no incentive to do any due diligence. That's hard to do because young students haven't had time to build credit history, you can't extrapolate creditworthiness from SAT/ACT scores without hurting students from poorly-funded education systems, and most importantly by rejecting to offer loans, you are preventing a student from a shot at their dream school which could pull a whole family out of poverty in a decade. The problem isn't how the loans should be disbursed, managed, repaid, or forgiven. The problem is that the base tuition is so high that students need loans. Loans should be for housing, gym memberships, extra-curriculars. I am absolutely ok with my Federal, state, and local taxes funding actual education, not college stadiums. This would also incentivize schools to reduce costs for the basic education and charge people who can afford to pay for the full "college experience." But over the years state governments keep cutting funding for colleges and universities and students keep having to take out loans. And since loans are easy to get and cannot be discharged, everyone is incentivized to do anything to get more students who will pay a higher tuition. It is a terrible cycle that I hope either gets obsoleted by virtual education, trade schools, or some miracle.

rdl 4y ago

LOL. I had to drop out of (MIT, not BU, but w/e) due to not being able to get financial aid (even though I think it was technically during the "we will give you as much financial aid as you need to attend" era), due to parents having income marginally higher than some federal cutoffs but unwilling to provide documentation or loans. Ultimately worked out fine, but I'm pretty unsympathetic to the "soak people for $82k/yr and then offer some discounts" price discrimination lie.

LigmaYC 4y ago
Agreed. The financial aid also fools people into believing 80k per year is not insanely greedy pricing.
silisili 4y ago
Similarly, I didn't attend some schools I was accepted to because the debt would have crushed me. That's why I don't get the big push for canceling student loans. It feels like rewarding people for irresponsible behavior, and ultimately punishing those who acted responsibly. Further, I expect it would drive tuitions even higher. Who cares what it costs if you don't have to pay...
- dgfitz 4y ago
  Canceling student loans is purely a political play. I agree wholeheartedly with your opinion. I worked my way through school, granted it was 50k all told over 4 years instead of whatever the hell it costs now. Maybe my ignorance is showing, but putting a cap on loan amounts for undergrad would probably protect the student quite a bit.
  - rdl 4y ago
    I'd rather just make student debt "regular" debt, i.e. dischargeable through bankruptcy. Maybe secured by the actual diploma, so you can't claim to be a graduate if you default on the debt, but you'd obviously have the education. This changed in 2005, under GWB, and was not the worst thing he did (screwing up Afghanistan, invading Iraq, PATRIOT, TSA, ...) but was still a bad thing he did.

hn_throwaway_99 4y ago

For those who aren't familiar, BU was pretty well known (at least a couple decades ago) for being a "rich kids" school. That is, it had a reputation as a quality school, but tuition was always high there (considerably higher than what you'd pay at an Ivy) and so it seemed to attract wealthy kids. I'd put other colleges like USC in LA or Emory University in Atlanta as having similar reputations: good (but not great) private universities with sky high tuitions. Just pointing this out because the fact that one US university has super high base tuition rates (before any financial aid) doesn't mean it's necessarily representative of much more.

KennyBlanken 4y ago
selimthegrim 4y ago
The problem is that USC and Emory have really upped their endowments and research game as well while places like Tulane have sort of chugged along.
freetime2 4y ago
Yup I have a relative who attended BU, and I remember hearing stories of some insanely rich kids from overseas. Like children of Russian oligarchs and the Saudi royal family levels of wealthy. I have no problem if they want to spend $80k/yr to educate their kids in Boston.

daxaxelrod 4y ago

Just to clarify, when they say "100%" of need, is that exclusively grants/scholarships or does that also include loans?

usui 4y ago

This annual tuition cost isn't real. It almost never is. It's the same thing as listing the total cost for medical bills: It goes to health insurance, not you.

hn_throwaway_99 4y ago
That's not true at all. This article says 45% of students receive need-based aid, meaning 55% don't: https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/boston-university-2130/paying https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/boston-university-2130/... Yes, other students may be receiving merit-based aid, but a large percentage of their student body is paying the full cost.

testfoobar 4y ago

Is this another hedge fund masquerading as a university?

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

alberth 4y ago

University of Chicago is projected to be the first $100k/year tuition. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21442807 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21442807

aantix 4y ago

>"What Is the Cost of Attendance?" >"Probably less than you think." No, it was not less than I thought, BU..

Agamus 4y ago

The solution is and always has been to cut the fluff from the academies. For context, go add up the salaries the 'student services' area of the expensive school of your choice. Having worked for one such office for ~15 years, the most appalling part was that they are largely antagonistic toward the faculty and mission of the schools. The waste is dizzying.

daxaxelrod 4y ago
Was there ever a layoff/pay cut in those 15 years?
pishpash 4y ago
But who would cut it unless there is financial discipline from the lack of funds? You need to turn off the spigot first.
- Agamus 4y ago
  Turning off this spigot should be our biggest national security concern, in my opinion.
monissiddiqui 4y ago
The iron law of bureaucracy in action. > Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy states that in any bureaucratic organization there will be two kinds of people": > First, there will be those who are devoted to the goals of the organization. Examples are dedicated classroom teachers in an educational bureaucracy, many of the engineers and launch technicians and scientists at NASA, even some agricultural scientists and advisors in the former Soviet Union collective farming administration. > Secondly, there will be those dedicated to the organization itself. Examples are many of the administrators in the education system, many professors of education, many teachers union officials, much of the NASA headquarters staff, etc. > The Iron Law states that in every case the second group will gain and keep control of the organization. It will write the rules, and control promotions within the organization. https://www.jerrypournelle.com/reports/jerryp/iron.html https://www.jerrypournelle.com/reports/jerryp/iron.html

seshagiric 4y ago

Expat here, $80K*4 = $320K for college education? how is this sustainable.

PragmaticPulp 4y ago
Very few people actually pay that amount. It's meant to be a high ceiling for the most wealthy people. The average price is still very high at around $30K/year, which is 50% higher than the national average of $20K/year ( https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/?164988-Boston-University https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/?164988-Boston-Univer... ) But the average student definitely isn't paying $80K/year to go to Boston University.

voidfunc 4y ago

I am so thankful I went to college 15ish years ago and my parents were able to do it without loans... our future is so fucked with the way we are burying our young under ridiculous amounts of debt.

3qz 4y ago

More than double the price of some entire degrees in Canada

aabajian 4y ago

Personal example, I almost did an MD/PhD at BU. Almost every MD/PhD is fully-funded due to the time commitment and presumed loss of 4-5 years of attending-level salary. BU's MD/PhD program is not fully funded...you have to pay for your living expenses all throughout the MD years, not an easy price to stomach in Boston (see: https://www.bumc.bu.edu/mdphd/admissions/funding/ https://www.bumc.bu.edu/mdphd/admissions/funding/).

hedora 4y ago

Assuming no overhead: If professors are making 250K / year, and the average course load per student is 4 courses, the class size is twenty, and each professor teaches two class sections per semester, student tuition would be $25K. Professors make much less, course sizes are much larger, and tuition is at least double my estimate. My conclusion? Professors with teaching positions should unionize or just found separate, low overhead universities that are optimized to provide higher education.

queuebert 4y ago
I'm a prof, and I would take a pay cut to work at a such a place. The waste at my institution is sickening.
colinmhayes 4y ago
Students aren't going to BU for the professors and the administration knows that. Most are just their to get the piece of paper from a prestigious institution.

whazor 4y ago

There are lots of European universities with great English bachelor programs. My university, Eindhoven University of Technology, has a bachelor program for €11,600 a year. You have to be on time with signup and be lucky with the lottery (also check out Delft and other EU universities). A room would be around 500 to 700 euro's per month.

brailsafe 4y ago

Is that $80k per year!? What. The. Fuck. Batman.

JoeJonathan 4y ago

As others have pointed out, and as a few media outlets have increasingly covered, there's a big difference between sticker price and net price. A minority of students at private universities pay full sticker price, and if I had to guess, I'd say most are wealthy foreign students (who are effectively subsidizing domestic students' education). Colleges—as well as sites like US News—should figure out a way to more effectively communicate average cost, or a typical cost range, after non-loan student aid. Student loans are another issue entirely. I agree with other commenters that universal student loan forgiveness isn't a long term solution to the student debt problem, and I think we should focus on expanding and simplifying programs like PSLF (Public Service Loan Forgiveness). That said, I don't find the rational-choice argument ("I ran the numbers and determined X, and did Y") persuasive. Few 18-year-olds have an expansive enough understanding of the world to accurately assess student loan burden against potential future earnings. Finally, we forgive and renegotiate all kinds of debt all the time. Why can't we do the same for student loans? Why are student loan interest rates set a decade in advance by Congress? The system makes no sense.

fortran77 4y ago

And why not? They can borrow money for it and the government will forgive it. I'd bet if the Government stopped backing student loans, tuitions will drop like a rock.

gjmacd 4y ago

Major colleges are an absolute ripoff. If I asked you to give me $250K so that I could give you an $80K salary to start, which isn't a given, would you take that investment? Community and state schools (and even state schools are too high) are the better way to go. Something has to give...

jsiaajdsdaa 4y ago

I'm gonna come out and say that this is too much money to pay vis a vis the starting salary of a developer. I would highly suggest just getting any cheap degree from anywhere because every recruiter I talk to doesn't care where you went.

graycat 4y ago

As I look back on ugrad school, I conclude "Don't pay a lot for ugrad school." I can think of maybe three exceptions -- Harvard, Princeton, and Stanford, and not for the education but for who you meet. For the education, basically DIY -- do it yourself. Blunt truth: For a really good education, 'bout have to DIY anyway. How to do that? Mostly books. Now supplemented with the Internet. Maybe some help from a few profs. For the books, etc. find what looks like the best courses in all of the US and use those to build your own reading list. For a good education, need to do that anyway: Blunt truth, ugrad school is a busy time and won't get as much as you want. So, will leave with a diploma but also with a nice collection of materials have not carefully studied yet. Another blunt fact: Say, 3 courses each semester, two semesters per year, 4 years -- 24 courses. If you have as many as 4 of those really good, you are lucky. Usually the teaching really isn't very good, guys. Another blunt fact: ASAP, already by 8th grade, via parents, uncles, friends, whatever, try to get into, connected with, know about what is going on outside high school and college and relevant to your career options and, thus, also relevant to what you study in college. If a college can help get you connected with some promising real career directions, great, but don't count on it. Blunt fact: You have a good shot at getting about the best ugrad education possible by doing a lot of DIY, making your own investigations and connections, and going to a rather cheap state university and living cheap at home. The Internet has a lot of video clips of lectures in courses from famous universities, profs, etc. These clips expose the truth: There is a lot of poor teaching out there, and really good material is rare. In short, the person best to manage, direct, design your ugrad education is you. Don't just passively lean back and take what is given -- instead as here, be active, DIY, etc.

imranq 4y ago
This is all spot on from my experience, and possibly summarized by Will Huntings quote “You wasted $150,000 on an education you coulda got for $1.50 in late fees at the public library.” Also many of the top companies (Tesla, Google, etc.) no longer require degrees to apply and get hired

queuebert 4y ago

The federal government could fix this instantly if they capped the tuition that could be charged as a condition of receiving federal grant money. That is an unbelievable lever for research institutions at least.

ab_testing 4y ago

Expect them to increase more if the government tries to waive off student loans. The universities have no incentive to reduce tuition if they know that the taxpayer will pick up the tab in a few years once the student is unable to pay back his loans.

jb3689 4y ago

State school was a great decision. Still working for top tech now. Pretty much everyone I know who went to a state school is doing fine

freetime2 4y ago
Or another option that I've heard of in several states is to do two years at community college, and then transfer to a state college. Some of the benefits of these programs are that acceptance to a state college is guaranteed provided the student maintains a certain GPA, and there are also some pretty generous financial aid benefits. [1] I think this is something that should be encouraged much more often for students graduating from high school - especially for kids who don't really know what they want to do yet. Maybe take a year or two off, experience the real world and grow up a bit, and then do an associate's degree followed by a bachelor's degree. Or else maybe learn a trade. Or join the military. I've known a lot of people who took big loans and went straight into college after high school, and ended up dropping out. Maybe they weren't ready yet, or maybe college just wasn't right for them. And the costs - both financial and developmental - can be pretty devastating. [1] https://www.mass.edu/masstransfer/macomcom/home.asp https://www.mass.edu/masstransfer/macomcom/home.asp

TimPC 4y ago

Other countries make government funding of universities and government funding of student loans for those same institutions conditional on price controls. What’s wrong with saying the US government gives no research money, no funding dollars and no student loans to students attending Harvard unless Harvard agrees to keep tuitions below a certain number?

wdr1 4y ago

My alma mater, University of Chicago, is currently clocking in at a staggering $85k. https://financialaid.uchicago.edu/undergraduate/costs https://financialaid.uchicago.edu/undergraduate/costs That said, they offer free tuition for families making less than $125k.

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