11 ms·

Show HN: I am building a free version of Strava

311 points by rlrhaeck 4y ago

I recently added a Segments feature to the Hangtime mountain biking app for Android and IOS. If you are familiar with Strava’s segments, this new feature works much the same. For example, you can add a segment to an existing recorded ride by simply defining a start and end point for the segment. Once the segment is created, it will match any new rides, and optionally “back match” all previous rides. If a segment matches a ride, you you will see your time to complete that segment as well as your personal record (PR) and king of the mountain (KOM) for that segment. The KOM represents the best segment time amongst all riders that have matched that segment. You can also open the segment to see your complete history on that segment to gauge how your performance has changed over time. Some screenshots and videos as well as other features at the link below. https://mtbx.bike?page=hangtime https://mtbx.bike?page=hangtime

markstos 4y ago
Most features on Strava are already free.
- darkstar999 4y ago
  But it constantly nags you to pay.
  - boringg 4y ago
    Because software isn't free
    - LightG 4y ago
      Then shouldn't be referred to as 'free'.
      - kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
        It isn't free. You're paying with your data.
redwoolf 4y ago
I love this so much! I'm an iOS and Android developer. Please reach out if you need help developing or testing. Email address in my profile.
dewey 4y ago
It looks like a cool project but I'd not describe it as a "free Strava" as the most common features of Strava are free and the value of it is the community. Getting motivated by seeing your friends finish activities seems to be the biggest selling point (apart from supporting a lot of different sports, not specifically mountain biking) of Strava.
- imoverclocked 4y ago
  I agree. Also, Strava has spent expertise around topics like privacy and safety and made opinionated design decisions based on those. Have you considered your take on these topics? eg: Can someone make a random segment somewhere and find all the people who bike there?
- boringg 4y ago
  I'd agree I don't think of this as a "free strava" -- that was for getting attention. Does anyone know if Strava is profitable or if it is still burning cash? Tough business - I started using it in the early days and was happy to be a paying customer when they started offering that. (A) to help fund more services and (B) I hate the free software model which I realize Strava was originally as they bootstrapped a user base.
  - francoispon 4y ago
    afaik they are sponsoring the tour de france this year so they have some marketting money to burn
    - boringg 4y ago
      Wow thats a big step up for them.
- topherjaynes 4y ago
  "Free" not the angle to compete for sure. Strava already has a really good free version. Premium (paid) users are only 2-3% of their user base.
- 4y ago
exabrial 4y ago
nice!!! I honestly think the next thing to do would build a decent app to replace a bike GPS... there is nothing special about a head unit other than the ANT+ radio (which is superior to BLE in a lot of ways). The only one that comes close is shimano's e-tube ride, but they abandoned the app before adding critical features like GPX import. Everything else I can find is bloatware or is just really awkward to use.
- iSloth 4y ago
  Have you tried wahoo’s GPS range, I love my bolt
  - exabrial 4y ago
    Garmin hardware does something that's been lost in software engineering: extreme reliability. I have no doubts when I turn on my InReach it'll work, and I don't think I've ever seen my Venu watch crash or freeze in the 3 years I've owned it. Even Garmin Connect is pretty awesome, other than the one outage a year or two ago when they let themselves get ransom-wared. That being said, the head unit is not as sexy hardware. The UI looks dated, the screen tech isn't OLED, and the battery life is "just ok" given the age of the other tech. The final thing is I actually trust Garmin not to "sell my data", unlike google/apple. I guess consider jumping ship if I had the Connect ecosystem, just done a little better!
- c0nsumer 4y ago
  The other very special things are battery life and durability. It's going to be very hard to get a phone to both work screen-on for 12+ hours (or even 5-6) running the GPS on high res mode, readable in direct bright sunlight, and robust enough to be fine during most bike (and mountain bike) crashes. They also generally offer either a touchscreen that works properly with gloves on and when wet, or has physical buttons for all the functions. Quality bike computers are specifically designed to fill a niche that smartphones just can't do, which is why the market still exists. Strava, et al, work fine for a lot of uses, but as one gets into more serious riding a dedicated bike computer is the way to go. This is because of the hardware, not due to a lack of app to be run on a general purpose mobile.
popotamonga 4y ago
related: https://intervals.icu/ https://intervals.icu/ Gets data from strava.
- evandale 4y ago
  Woah this looks cool! I use a chrome extension (elevate for Strava) that gives you lots of additional stats but this seems to have even more.
  - eitally 4y ago
    intervals.icu is fabulous and 100% worth paying to support the single dev who runs it.
  - tcmb 4y ago
    Elevate is no longer developed as a browser extension and lives on as a desktop app: https://github.com/thomaschampagne/elevate/ https://github.com/thomaschampagne/elevate/
- toddm 4y ago
  This. I use TrainingPeaks with Intervals as well as Strava - well, and Garmin Connect and Zwift and ... Intervals - as well as TP, TR, Zwift, Garmin Connect, and Strava, are pretty lightweight on the free side (let's face it, you get a lot for free) and they are all integrated to some extent (push/pull varies by app). I also advocate for supporting David (Intervals) with a $12 every 3-month commitment. It's an incredible resource.
- HelenePhisher 4y ago
  and also: https://runalyze.com https://runalyze.com Also gets data from Strava (and so much more, mostly free).
0des 4y ago
This is cool! I can't wait to try this out soon.
snapetom 4y ago
Good luck. I'll check in on this. I also hope you're paying attention to some of the privacy concerns of Strava. Strava makes it stupidly trivial to stalk runners. Some famous runners like Molly Seidel (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2w_omUCVCs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2w_omUCVCs, starts at about 1:50) are bringing this up, and Strava hasn't done much to address them. "Features" like real time tracking, which may be a no-brainer to us in tech, are a huge safety liability to users. And no, it's not as simple as "Why don't they just turn it off?" Self-marketing in a sport that gets little financial support is incredibly important, and can be done safely if the product managers are attentive.
- bornfreddy 4y ago
  Also, having famous athletes endorse you can do wonders to adoption of the app. You really want to listen to them. Good luck!
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
j4hdufd8 4y ago
Is it open source?
cgomez 4y ago
How will you make a business out of this or support its ongoing development? Strava has a fairly robust free product and the nominal monthly cost for their premium service seems worth it to those more serious and want the extras. I guess I'm not seeing what you're addressing?
- ipaddr 4y ago
  I worked for a company who did this many years ago. Create new formula for performance. Hire respected thought leaders. Convert users to your way of measuring new performance. Use the fact that the big guys don't use this measurement as your ad copy. If they add support for it that will generate a certain status for you which can make your brand.
michaelje 4y ago
What are the key differentiators to get me to use this over Strava where people already are? A quick look and some MTB specific metrics like hangtime? A killer feature for Strava (or anyone in the social activity game) would be allowing me to setup social rides with my followers/friends. For example, I plan on doing this loop at 8am Saturday - and anyone who follows can hit ‘+1’ and let me know I’ll join. Where I live, everyone does similar road rides, but won’t coordinate times which would be a great social opportunity. There’s no messaging or ability to setup casual rides - and if community is a key pillar for them, it’s a huge way to move further up the activity stack to planning activities (which they already have some basic functionality for mapping and planning routes for yourself). As another poster mentioned, there are privacy considerations but make it opt in and if implemented well would be a killer feature to lock in community as a pillar (and moat). I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately. FB is trying to do this with community on WhatsApp. Someone please eat their lunch. Anyone.
- outericky 4y ago
  I started a https://www.mygeargarage.com https://www.mygeargarage.com Initially it was for tracking all sorts of gear you use in your activities (because strava only tracks bike or shoes). I then added workouts, and challenges (but then strava added custom challenges...). My workout component allows you to share the url with friends and they can RSVP, you can add the route and stuff. But I don't have a ton of social features, mainly because I built this for myself and somehow organically it has grown to a few hundred users. I'm not really looking to grow it... but it does everything I need and others seem to find it useful...
  - tomglynch 4y ago
    I've come across your site before - I think you might need to rebrand though, your name is more likely to imply a car workshop tracker than cycling workout planning
    - outericky 4y ago
      Ah, cool. yeah, maybe :D Thanks.
karamanolev 4y ago
I'm an avid cyclist and I pay for Strava premium. I really like a lot of the things Strava offers and also have a lot of dislikes. I've thought about making a competing product and also offering it for free or at least much cheaper. It sounds easy at first, but there is so much Strava does. When you go in depth, no wonder Strava is an actual company and not 3 geeks and their spare time. For serious athletes, Strava offers quite a lot and segment competition is a very small thing. I'd go as far as to argue that for this slice of customers, segments are just for fun and there are other real reasons to use it. Here's a quick overview of the things I find valuable that I wouldn't want to go without: - Big community, with automatic ride grouping (showing rides together in the feed when you ride with other people). Ability to social network by leaving comments, adding photos, writing a story and so on. - In depth (although I would love some more) ability to analyze your own performance: plot comparisons between segment rides by time; compare your power curves (W / duration) across different time spans; track your running PRs (1k, 1mi, 5k, 10k, 1/2 and full marathons); - Calculate TSS (training stress score) per ride and per week in order to track training stress. Also supports tracking weekly duration, distance and so on. This is done based on HR during the exercise, I believe there are well known formulas. - Integration with a bunch of external services. I want the rides I track with my Garmin devices that end up in Garmin Connect to automatically end up in Strava. There's a thing called tapiriik (https://tapiriik.com/ https://tapiriik.com/) that could be helpful here, it's also open source. - Very nice route planner. There are other services for that (e.g. Komoot), but Strava is able to incorporate their data trove to make smart routings. When I make a route in Strava it also ends up on my Garmin devices, which is extra nice. No transferring GPX files left and right. The fact that it's built-in, easy to use and "right there" makes it quite an attractive option. - Nice API. I hate that Strava is adding more and more limitations to it, but some of the local cycling groups use it to organize group rides and it works quite well. I believe any competitors will need to outdo Strava in terms of API coverage and limitations. - Fitness & Freshness graphs, ability to create training plans, ride cropping, exploration ... many other things I don't use daily, but they're just there. One should also probably read up on previous efforts in that sphere. Endomondo used to be pretty big, but then kinda just fizzled out. There's Ride with GPS and a bunch of others, but nothing on the scale of Strava. Why? I don't have a clear answer, it's probably a multitude of factors, even product timing. As a daily user (7 workouts / week), group ride organizer and outdoor person, I'd be happy to discuss Strava and its alternatives further.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
epa 4y ago
Downloaded on android, thank you!
eric012 4y ago
eligro91 4y ago
I love it. I've been trying many applications including Strava and the pay walls were annoying. I only want to track my rides.. This seems promising, going try it on my next ride.
kyriakosel 4y ago
are you connecting to wearables? if so check Terra! https://tryterra.co https://tryterra.co
303brad 4y ago
Your app seems to be closer to Trailforks than Strava. Good job with it, I will use it on my next ride. I'm interested in building a free Trailforks, please let me know if you would like some contributors.
GlacierFox 4y ago
Great job. The UI looks like it could do with a little work though.
russell_h 4y ago
Looks neat, I've gotten into mountain biking recently and like all the MTB-specific features. Echoing what a few others have said, I think you should focus on feature differentiation from Strava; be the very best product for tracking or analyzing mountain bike rides, and don't try to differentiate on price. Make the product awesome then price it however makes sense - probably a free tier and paid features (like Strava) but up to you.
jerlam 4y ago
The ability to create segments and compare them across rides is probably the easy part. The hard parts that Strava has already solved are: 1. Segment creation - over the decade+ that Strava has existed, people have eventually created enough segments to cover most riding areas. Most people won't be interested enough to create segments - Garmin has had segments for years and I don't see a single segment created on any of my runs, nor am I willing to create segments myself. So the feature is unused. You can attempt to create segments yourself across all users by leveraging another source of data (like how Strava is using pre-defined Zwift routes instead of allowing user-input segments) or some programmatic way. 2. Global leaderboards - Strava is primarily a social media site, so all rides and runs are public. This means leaderboards are heavily populated. Having a KOM or PR in Strava is somewhat meaningful; but on a platform with few users, the KOM or PR is not. I don't know how you would address this without a lot of user data.
- switchbak 4y ago
  For MTB, trail forks is far and away the leading source of quality trail (segment?) Data. They do some ride recording, but maybe getting bought by Outside and integrating with trail forks would be an exit move here.
fabianhjr 4y ago
Even if provided for free now by not being either libre source nor a cooperative what is stopping the negative aspects of Strava form creeping into this alternative?
mattcantstop 4y ago
I very happily pay Strava for their premium features. I love their community and software.
layer8 4y ago
Off-topic: Submissions with query strings in the URL are annoying, because at least Safari mobile doesn’t mark such links as visited (since presumably they aren’t idempotent).
stephencoyner 4y ago
Paying Strava user and big cyclist here. One thing I wish Strava would add - better route discovery. I know they recently added “routes” to the maps tab that you can filter based on elevation and distance, but I find they only show the same 2-3 routes every time I look. Because of this, I’ve ended up going to segments I ride on, looking at the top performers of the day, then checking their routes to discover new places to ride. If they had “route influencers” or some way to tap into the vast local knowledges that some users have I would love that.
- Gigachad 4y ago
  These days I end up just designing the routes myself and tweaking them as I ride them. The problem is any premade routes won't be designed around your particular starting point.
- thirdsun 4y ago
  I like your idea. Promoting willing users to local guides and showcasing their routes makes sense. I'd love to participate in that. However I think Strava's route planning features are too basic. Unless I'm very familiar with the region I will always prefer Komoot for route planning as it allows me to get detailed information about the surface (which is very important for a road bike). Strava's surface information are too limited and heatmaps don't make up for it. Interestingly enough Komoot allows you to publish and present your routes but they don't have the user base to make it worthwhile. At least in my circles it seems as if everyone just uses Komoot in private. It doesn't really feel like a social network or community.
jasoneisen 4y ago
I have long wanted to see a competitor in this space, however I always assumed Strava’s patent [0] on segments was the reason why one could never exist. Have you thought about how you would defend yourself in a patent infringement suit? [0] Defining and matching segments https://patents.google.com/patent/US9116922B2/en https://patents.google.com/patent/US9116922B2/en
- DrPhish 4y ago
  I didn't realize there was a patent underpinning Strava. I guess that brings some context to why they've managed to rule this space for so long. Sure seems like a weak-sauce patent tho. I have had an idea kicking around for a long time to democratize segments via openstreetmap data, as it seems like a silly category of data for a single corporation to have locked up. They really rustled my jimmies when they reduced the views of leaderboards created with user submitted data. I guess everyone has until 2031 to figure this out unless they want to have some kind of silly patent fight
robotburrito 4y ago
I have played with this sort of thing as well. I always ran into an issue where I had to manually upload the .fit or .gpx files from my Wahoo/Garmin device to my site. I couldn't figure out how to have the devices just automatically send the data where I wanted it to go once you hit the stop/save button on them.
anon776 4y ago
Looks good and I will check it out. The only feature/reason why I still use strava is to send my wife the URL that will tell her exactly where on the map I am (beacon text). I'm guessing there are probably other open source solutions to this problem I have just not looked.
- rlrhaeck 4y ago
  Hangtime has beacons too.
orangepurple 4y ago
I won't even bother checking this out knowing it will be gone in a year because other money making priorities will win out. Charge for it somehow. Infrastructure isn't free even if you don't value your time.
Humphrey 4y ago
I was literally thinking while riding on the weekend that my watch should be able to track "hang time" / "In the air time". So good work! I'll try that out next time I ride. I don't like the idea of strapping my phone to the frame like that. I bought an Apple Watch so that I didn't need to take my fragile phone with me. Also, Strava's watch app is very basic and boring, so I use a different app to record "Workout-doors", and then sync my activities to Strava for the Social Network aspect of it. I suspect it'll be impossible to compete with Strava for the Social Network ability, but I think there is room for the apps that record your activities and give better real-time and post-activity stats.
s1mon 4y ago
[background: I've been a paying Strava customer for 10+ years] Strava is a lot more than mountain biking, or even biking. Most of the people I know/follow run or hike. Some of them may also bike or mountain bike. I regularly see virtual bike rides, skiing and swimming too. Strava supports Ride, Run, Swim, Walk, Hike, Alpine Ski, Backcountry Ski, Canoe, Crossfit, E-Bike Ride, Elliptical, Handcycle, Ice Skate, Inline Skate, Kayak, Kitesurf Session, Nordic Ski, Rock Climb, Roller Ski, Row, Snowboard, Snowshoe, Stair Stepper, Stand Up Paddle, Surf, Velomobile, Virtual Ride, Virtual Run, Weight Training, Windsurf Session, Wheelchair Workout, and Yoga. Strava is also about more than KOMs or segments. For me, I don't really care about segments these days. I do care about routes. I really like the heat maps, and the start points that they've added recently. I like finding new places to hike or trail run. The SF Bay Area is an amazing place, and I can always find some interesting trail I haven't been on yet. There's a lot of room for improvement in the route building, finding, sorting, and organizing.
ck2 4y ago
I've always wondered how "segment matching" algorithm works Is it just brute force checking every gps lat/long point in an activity to see if any path numbers are "close" to any segment lat/long start point? And then if so, to additionally match an end-point, and then if so see how many points inbetween match? Seems like a heck of a db query, math ranges? Are the gps point normalized somehow to accelerate the process or just stored as original floating point and let the db engine do the heavy work? adding: oooh it's right in the patent, figure 9+
site-packages1 4y ago
Strava Premium user for almost a decade now. Thought I was in the know, but absolutely shocked at how many competitors their appear to be based on comments! I've already signed up for a couple. Though I will happily continue to pay for Strava as long as they don't get purchased by Google or fizzle out or something for the reasons others have outlined and would be redundant if I repeated.
pmontra 4y ago
I hoped to see a self hosted backend to send my GPX files to at the end of a ride. Does anybody know if there is anything like that? I don't need an app. I'm recording with OSMAnd+ and I don't need anything more than that. I'd be OK with uploading the files manually.
audiometry 4y ago
Kind of a dopey question… will this work if I keep my phone in my camelback while riding? I don’t want to attach it to my handlebars. Yeah watched some videos and clearly the answer would be no. What’s the model of top-tube phone mount you used?
- thirdsun 4y ago
  Just use a bike computer - it's the superior tool for the task in every way. Wahoo, Garmin, Hammerhead - there are excellent options out there.
ssl232 4y ago
Cool! Do you plan on making this available on F-Droid?
m4lvin 4y ago
I wish there would be a self-hosted fediverse version for the community features of strava. Luke Picciau has built PikaTrack, but not edited it in the last two years. Still, maybe this is some useful inspiration if you intend to extend your app in the community features direction: https://gitlab.com/pikatrack/pikatrack/-/wikis/user-guide https://gitlab.com/pikatrack/pikatrack/-/wikis/user-guide https://gitlab.com/pikatrack/pikatrack https://gitlab.com/pikatrack/pikatrack https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/9kw0mz/i_have_been_building_an_open_source_clone_of/ https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/9kw0mz/i_have_been_b...
thraway3837 4y ago
Great work! You should consider taking donations as an easy way to raise funds for development costs. In that way you’re not scope creeping adding SaaS subscription logic this early on. Once the iPhone standardizes all day, always on screen, with 3rd party data displays, bike computers will become obsolete. For now, iOS Maps just needs to be better about displaying an upcoming navigation prompt and then shutting off the screen entirely until the next prompt.
davidtinker 4y ago
Building a niche Strava-like platform can be done. I started https://intervals.icu https://intervals.icu about 3 years ago to scratch a cycling itch and learn Vue.js. It has evolved into an analysis and planning tool for all sports. I have avoided segments because I get data from Strava (and Garmin/Suunto/Polar etc.) and that is very much their bread and butter. Intervals.icu suddenly got popular about 18 months or so ago and I had to decide to drop it or spend my whole vacation doing devops work. It also started to cost real money to run. So I started a Patreon and then implemented Stripe. Lots of people have been nice enough to signup for the optional subscription (tx guys!). But I will probably add premium features in future to encourage more signups. It is a lot of work! Large amounts of data to process and store and lots of support (have to put less bugs in the platform!). My next steps are to make this not just me. Intervals.icu has an open API and a number of apps already integrate with it.
sideshowb 4y ago
Shameless plug: I've been doing lots of modelling cycling for transport, and realized that it's hard to get accurate height data for either a road or a GPS trace. I've since solved this problem, if it's of use to you... https://github.com/fiftysevendegreesofrad/BayesianDrape https://github.com/fiftysevendegreesofrad/BayesianDrape Good luck with the project - I like the focus on MTB especially since Strava deleted all the interesting downhill segments (which was a loss to us all) and also with Trailforks going the subscription route.
xtrimsky1234 4y ago
I'm not really sure this is comparable to Strava. First this only covers mountain biking, I use Strava also for runs, swims, skiing, and it can do a lot more. Secondly I don't actually use Strava to record or view data, I use Garmin for that and just post to Strava. My only utility in Strava is the social newsfeed (to see what others are doing and be social) and also the PRs a little bit. Now given that, I think your app looks quite cool, I just wouldn't compare it to Strava. I would highly recommend instead of positioning yourself as a competitor to Strava, is to allow users to record on your app and post to Strava. I use Garmin to record my data and then post to Strava because Garmin gives me a lot more detail than Strava, but I can still compare myself to millions of users on Strava that don't use Garmin.

311 points by rlrhaeck 4y ago

markstos 4y ago

Most features on Strava are already free.

darkstar999 4y ago
But it constantly nags you to pay.
- boringg 4y ago
  Because software isn't free
  - LightG 4y ago
    Then shouldn't be referred to as 'free'.
    - kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
      It isn't free. You're paying with your data.

redwoolf 4y ago

I love this so much! I'm an iOS and Android developer. Please reach out if you need help developing or testing. Email address in my profile.

dewey 4y ago

It looks like a cool project but I'd not describe it as a "free Strava" as the most common features of Strava are free and the value of it is the community. Getting motivated by seeing your friends finish activities seems to be the biggest selling point (apart from supporting a lot of different sports, not specifically mountain biking) of Strava.

imoverclocked 4y ago
I agree. Also, Strava has spent expertise around topics like privacy and safety and made opinionated design decisions based on those. Have you considered your take on these topics? eg: Can someone make a random segment somewhere and find all the people who bike there?
boringg 4y ago
I'd agree I don't think of this as a "free strava" -- that was for getting attention. Does anyone know if Strava is profitable or if it is still burning cash? Tough business - I started using it in the early days and was happy to be a paying customer when they started offering that. (A) to help fund more services and (B) I hate the free software model which I realize Strava was originally as they bootstrapped a user base.
- francoispon 4y ago
  afaik they are sponsoring the tour de france this year so they have some marketting money to burn
  - boringg 4y ago
    Wow thats a big step up for them.
topherjaynes 4y ago
"Free" not the angle to compete for sure. Strava already has a really good free version. Premium (paid) users are only 2-3% of their user base.
4y ago

exabrial 4y ago

nice!!! I honestly think the next thing to do would build a decent app to replace a bike GPS... there is nothing special about a head unit other than the ANT+ radio (which is superior to BLE in a lot of ways). The only one that comes close is shimano's e-tube ride, but they abandoned the app before adding critical features like GPX import. Everything else I can find is bloatware or is just really awkward to use.

iSloth 4y ago
Have you tried wahoo’s GPS range, I love my bolt
- exabrial 4y ago
  Garmin hardware does something that's been lost in software engineering: extreme reliability. I have no doubts when I turn on my InReach it'll work, and I don't think I've ever seen my Venu watch crash or freeze in the 3 years I've owned it. Even Garmin Connect is pretty awesome, other than the one outage a year or two ago when they let themselves get ransom-wared. That being said, the head unit is not as sexy hardware. The UI looks dated, the screen tech isn't OLED, and the battery life is "just ok" given the age of the other tech. The final thing is I actually trust Garmin not to "sell my data", unlike google/apple. I guess consider jumping ship if I had the Connect ecosystem, just done a little better!
c0nsumer 4y ago
The other very special things are battery life and durability. It's going to be very hard to get a phone to both work screen-on for 12+ hours (or even 5-6) running the GPS on high res mode, readable in direct bright sunlight, and robust enough to be fine during most bike (and mountain bike) crashes. They also generally offer either a touchscreen that works properly with gloves on and when wet, or has physical buttons for all the functions. Quality bike computers are specifically designed to fill a niche that smartphones just can't do, which is why the market still exists. Strava, et al, work fine for a lot of uses, but as one gets into more serious riding a dedicated bike computer is the way to go. This is because of the hardware, not due to a lack of app to be run on a general purpose mobile.

popotamonga 4y ago

related: https://intervals.icu/ https://intervals.icu/ Gets data from strava.

evandale 4y ago
Woah this looks cool! I use a chrome extension (elevate for Strava) that gives you lots of additional stats but this seems to have even more.
- eitally 4y ago
  intervals.icu is fabulous and 100% worth paying to support the single dev who runs it.
- tcmb 4y ago
  Elevate is no longer developed as a browser extension and lives on as a desktop app: https://github.com/thomaschampagne/elevate/ https://github.com/thomaschampagne/elevate/
toddm 4y ago
This. I use TrainingPeaks with Intervals as well as Strava - well, and Garmin Connect and Zwift and ... Intervals - as well as TP, TR, Zwift, Garmin Connect, and Strava, are pretty lightweight on the free side (let's face it, you get a lot for free) and they are all integrated to some extent (push/pull varies by app). I also advocate for supporting David (Intervals) with a $12 every 3-month commitment. It's an incredible resource.
HelenePhisher 4y ago
and also: https://runalyze.com https://runalyze.com Also gets data from Strava (and so much more, mostly free).

0des 4y ago

This is cool! I can't wait to try this out soon.

snapetom 4y ago

Good luck. I'll check in on this. I also hope you're paying attention to some of the privacy concerns of Strava. Strava makes it stupidly trivial to stalk runners. Some famous runners like Molly Seidel (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2w_omUCVCs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2w_omUCVCs, starts at about 1:50) are bringing this up, and Strava hasn't done much to address them. "Features" like real time tracking, which may be a no-brainer to us in tech, are a huge safety liability to users. And no, it's not as simple as "Why don't they just turn it off?" Self-marketing in a sport that gets little financial support is incredibly important, and can be done safely if the product managers are attentive.

bornfreddy 4y ago
Also, having famous athletes endorse you can do wonders to adoption of the app. You really want to listen to them. Good luck!
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j4hdufd8 4y ago

Is it open source?

cgomez 4y ago

How will you make a business out of this or support its ongoing development? Strava has a fairly robust free product and the nominal monthly cost for their premium service seems worth it to those more serious and want the extras. I guess I'm not seeing what you're addressing?

ipaddr 4y ago
I worked for a company who did this many years ago. Create new formula for performance. Hire respected thought leaders. Convert users to your way of measuring new performance. Use the fact that the big guys don't use this measurement as your ad copy. If they add support for it that will generate a certain status for you which can make your brand.

michaelje 4y ago

What are the key differentiators to get me to use this over Strava where people already are? A quick look and some MTB specific metrics like hangtime? A killer feature for Strava (or anyone in the social activity game) would be allowing me to setup social rides with my followers/friends. For example, I plan on doing this loop at 8am Saturday - and anyone who follows can hit ‘+1’ and let me know I’ll join. Where I live, everyone does similar road rides, but won’t coordinate times which would be a great social opportunity. There’s no messaging or ability to setup casual rides - and if community is a key pillar for them, it’s a huge way to move further up the activity stack to planning activities (which they already have some basic functionality for mapping and planning routes for yourself). As another poster mentioned, there are privacy considerations but make it opt in and if implemented well would be a killer feature to lock in community as a pillar (and moat). I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately. FB is trying to do this with community on WhatsApp. Someone please eat their lunch. Anyone.

outericky 4y ago
I started a https://www.mygeargarage.com https://www.mygeargarage.com Initially it was for tracking all sorts of gear you use in your activities (because strava only tracks bike or shoes). I then added workouts, and challenges (but then strava added custom challenges...). My workout component allows you to share the url with friends and they can RSVP, you can add the route and stuff. But I don't have a ton of social features, mainly because I built this for myself and somehow organically it has grown to a few hundred users. I'm not really looking to grow it... but it does everything I need and others seem to find it useful...
- tomglynch 4y ago
  I've come across your site before - I think you might need to rebrand though, your name is more likely to imply a car workshop tracker than cycling workout planning
  - outericky 4y ago
    Ah, cool. yeah, maybe :D Thanks.

karamanolev 4y ago

I'm an avid cyclist and I pay for Strava premium. I really like a lot of the things Strava offers and also have a lot of dislikes. I've thought about making a competing product and also offering it for free or at least much cheaper. It sounds easy at first, but there is so much Strava does. When you go in depth, no wonder Strava is an actual company and not 3 geeks and their spare time. For serious athletes, Strava offers quite a lot and segment competition is a very small thing. I'd go as far as to argue that for this slice of customers, segments are just for fun and there are other real reasons to use it. Here's a quick overview of the things I find valuable that I wouldn't want to go without: - Big community, with automatic ride grouping (showing rides together in the feed when you ride with other people). Ability to social network by leaving comments, adding photos, writing a story and so on. - In depth (although I would love some more) ability to analyze your own performance: plot comparisons between segment rides by time; compare your power curves (W / duration) across different time spans; track your running PRs (1k, 1mi, 5k, 10k, 1/2 and full marathons); - Calculate TSS (training stress score) per ride and per week in order to track training stress. Also supports tracking weekly duration, distance and so on. This is done based on HR during the exercise, I believe there are well known formulas. - Integration with a bunch of external services. I want the rides I track with my Garmin devices that end up in Garmin Connect to automatically end up in Strava. There's a thing called tapiriik (https://tapiriik.com/ https://tapiriik.com/) that could be helpful here, it's also open source. - Very nice route planner. There are other services for that (e.g. Komoot), but Strava is able to incorporate their data trove to make smart routings. When I make a route in Strava it also ends up on my Garmin devices, which is extra nice. No transferring GPX files left and right. The fact that it's built-in, easy to use and "right there" makes it quite an attractive option. - Nice API. I hate that Strava is adding more and more limitations to it, but some of the local cycling groups use it to organize group rides and it works quite well. I believe any competitors will need to outdo Strava in terms of API coverage and limitations. - Fitness & Freshness graphs, ability to create training plans, ride cropping, exploration ... many other things I don't use daily, but they're just there. One should also probably read up on previous efforts in that sphere. Endomondo used to be pretty big, but then kinda just fizzled out. There's Ride with GPS and a bunch of others, but nothing on the scale of Strava. Why? I don't have a clear answer, it's probably a multitude of factors, even product timing. As a daily user (7 workouts / week), group ride organizer and outdoor person, I'd be happy to discuss Strava and its alternatives further.

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epa 4y ago

Downloaded on android, thank you!

eric012 4y ago

eligro91 4y ago

I love it. I've been trying many applications including Strava and the pay walls were annoying. I only want to track my rides.. This seems promising, going try it on my next ride.

kyriakosel 4y ago

are you connecting to wearables? if so check Terra! https://tryterra.co https://tryterra.co

303brad 4y ago

Your app seems to be closer to Trailforks than Strava. Good job with it, I will use it on my next ride. I'm interested in building a free Trailforks, please let me know if you would like some contributors.

GlacierFox 4y ago

Great job. The UI looks like it could do with a little work though.

russell_h 4y ago

Looks neat, I've gotten into mountain biking recently and like all the MTB-specific features. Echoing what a few others have said, I think you should focus on feature differentiation from Strava; be the very best product for tracking or analyzing mountain bike rides, and don't try to differentiate on price. Make the product awesome then price it however makes sense - probably a free tier and paid features (like Strava) but up to you.

jerlam 4y ago

The ability to create segments and compare them across rides is probably the easy part. The hard parts that Strava has already solved are: 1. Segment creation - over the decade+ that Strava has existed, people have eventually created enough segments to cover most riding areas. Most people won't be interested enough to create segments - Garmin has had segments for years and I don't see a single segment created on any of my runs, nor am I willing to create segments myself. So the feature is unused. You can attempt to create segments yourself across all users by leveraging another source of data (like how Strava is using pre-defined Zwift routes instead of allowing user-input segments) or some programmatic way. 2. Global leaderboards - Strava is primarily a social media site, so all rides and runs are public. This means leaderboards are heavily populated. Having a KOM or PR in Strava is somewhat meaningful; but on a platform with few users, the KOM or PR is not. I don't know how you would address this without a lot of user data.

switchbak 4y ago
For MTB, trail forks is far and away the leading source of quality trail (segment?) Data. They do some ride recording, but maybe getting bought by Outside and integrating with trail forks would be an exit move here.

fabianhjr 4y ago

Even if provided for free now by not being either libre source nor a cooperative what is stopping the negative aspects of Strava form creeping into this alternative?

mattcantstop 4y ago

I very happily pay Strava for their premium features. I love their community and software.

layer8 4y ago

Off-topic: Submissions with query strings in the URL are annoying, because at least Safari mobile doesn’t mark such links as visited (since presumably they aren’t idempotent).

stephencoyner 4y ago

Paying Strava user and big cyclist here. One thing I wish Strava would add - better route discovery. I know they recently added “routes” to the maps tab that you can filter based on elevation and distance, but I find they only show the same 2-3 routes every time I look. Because of this, I’ve ended up going to segments I ride on, looking at the top performers of the day, then checking their routes to discover new places to ride. If they had “route influencers” or some way to tap into the vast local knowledges that some users have I would love that.

Gigachad 4y ago
These days I end up just designing the routes myself and tweaking them as I ride them. The problem is any premade routes won't be designed around your particular starting point.
thirdsun 4y ago
I like your idea. Promoting willing users to local guides and showcasing their routes makes sense. I'd love to participate in that. However I think Strava's route planning features are too basic. Unless I'm very familiar with the region I will always prefer Komoot for route planning as it allows me to get detailed information about the surface (which is very important for a road bike). Strava's surface information are too limited and heatmaps don't make up for it. Interestingly enough Komoot allows you to publish and present your routes but they don't have the user base to make it worthwhile. At least in my circles it seems as if everyone just uses Komoot in private. It doesn't really feel like a social network or community.

jasoneisen 4y ago

I have long wanted to see a competitor in this space, however I always assumed Strava’s patent [0] on segments was the reason why one could never exist. Have you thought about how you would defend yourself in a patent infringement suit? [0] Defining and matching segments https://patents.google.com/patent/US9116922B2/en https://patents.google.com/patent/US9116922B2/en

DrPhish 4y ago
I didn't realize there was a patent underpinning Strava. I guess that brings some context to why they've managed to rule this space for so long. Sure seems like a weak-sauce patent tho. I have had an idea kicking around for a long time to democratize segments via openstreetmap data, as it seems like a silly category of data for a single corporation to have locked up. They really rustled my jimmies when they reduced the views of leaderboards created with user submitted data. I guess everyone has until 2031 to figure this out unless they want to have some kind of silly patent fight

robotburrito 4y ago

I have played with this sort of thing as well. I always ran into an issue where I had to manually upload the .fit or .gpx files from my Wahoo/Garmin device to my site. I couldn't figure out how to have the devices just automatically send the data where I wanted it to go once you hit the stop/save button on them.

anon776 4y ago

Looks good and I will check it out. The only feature/reason why I still use strava is to send my wife the URL that will tell her exactly where on the map I am (beacon text). I'm guessing there are probably other open source solutions to this problem I have just not looked.

rlrhaeck 4y ago
Hangtime has beacons too.

orangepurple 4y ago

I won't even bother checking this out knowing it will be gone in a year because other money making priorities will win out. Charge for it somehow. Infrastructure isn't free even if you don't value your time.

Humphrey 4y ago

I was literally thinking while riding on the weekend that my watch should be able to track "hang time" / "In the air time". So good work! I'll try that out next time I ride. I don't like the idea of strapping my phone to the frame like that. I bought an Apple Watch so that I didn't need to take my fragile phone with me. Also, Strava's watch app is very basic and boring, so I use a different app to record "Workout-doors", and then sync my activities to Strava for the Social Network aspect of it. I suspect it'll be impossible to compete with Strava for the Social Network ability, but I think there is room for the apps that record your activities and give better real-time and post-activity stats.

s1mon 4y ago

[background: I've been a paying Strava customer for 10+ years] Strava is a lot more than mountain biking, or even biking. Most of the people I know/follow run or hike. Some of them may also bike or mountain bike. I regularly see virtual bike rides, skiing and swimming too. Strava supports Ride, Run, Swim, Walk, Hike, Alpine Ski, Backcountry Ski, Canoe, Crossfit, E-Bike Ride, Elliptical, Handcycle, Ice Skate, Inline Skate, Kayak, Kitesurf Session, Nordic Ski, Rock Climb, Roller Ski, Row, Snowboard, Snowshoe, Stair Stepper, Stand Up Paddle, Surf, Velomobile, Virtual Ride, Virtual Run, Weight Training, Windsurf Session, Wheelchair Workout, and Yoga. Strava is also about more than KOMs or segments. For me, I don't really care about segments these days. I do care about routes. I really like the heat maps, and the start points that they've added recently. I like finding new places to hike or trail run. The SF Bay Area is an amazing place, and I can always find some interesting trail I haven't been on yet. There's a lot of room for improvement in the route building, finding, sorting, and organizing.

ck2 4y ago

I've always wondered how "segment matching" algorithm works Is it just brute force checking every gps lat/long point in an activity to see if any path numbers are "close" to any segment lat/long start point? And then if so, to additionally match an end-point, and then if so see how many points inbetween match? Seems like a heck of a db query, math ranges? Are the gps point normalized somehow to accelerate the process or just stored as original floating point and let the db engine do the heavy work? adding: oooh it's right in the patent, figure 9+

site-packages1 4y ago

Strava Premium user for almost a decade now. Thought I was in the know, but absolutely shocked at how many competitors their appear to be based on comments! I've already signed up for a couple. Though I will happily continue to pay for Strava as long as they don't get purchased by Google or fizzle out or something for the reasons others have outlined and would be redundant if I repeated.

pmontra 4y ago

I hoped to see a self hosted backend to send my GPX files to at the end of a ride. Does anybody know if there is anything like that? I don't need an app. I'm recording with OSMAnd+ and I don't need anything more than that. I'd be OK with uploading the files manually.

audiometry 4y ago

Kind of a dopey question… will this work if I keep my phone in my camelback while riding? I don’t want to attach it to my handlebars. Yeah watched some videos and clearly the answer would be no. What’s the model of top-tube phone mount you used?

thirdsun 4y ago
Just use a bike computer - it's the superior tool for the task in every way. Wahoo, Garmin, Hammerhead - there are excellent options out there.

ssl232 4y ago

Cool! Do you plan on making this available on F-Droid?

m4lvin 4y ago

I wish there would be a self-hosted fediverse version for the community features of strava. Luke Picciau has built PikaTrack, but not edited it in the last two years. Still, maybe this is some useful inspiration if you intend to extend your app in the community features direction: https://gitlab.com/pikatrack/pikatrack/-/wikis/user-guide https://gitlab.com/pikatrack/pikatrack/-/wikis/user-guide https://gitlab.com/pikatrack/pikatrack https://gitlab.com/pikatrack/pikatrack https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/9kw0mz/i_have_been_building_an_open_source_clone_of/ https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/9kw0mz/i_have_been_b...

thraway3837 4y ago

Great work! You should consider taking donations as an easy way to raise funds for development costs. In that way you’re not scope creeping adding SaaS subscription logic this early on. Once the iPhone standardizes all day, always on screen, with 3rd party data displays, bike computers will become obsolete. For now, iOS Maps just needs to be better about displaying an upcoming navigation prompt and then shutting off the screen entirely until the next prompt.

davidtinker 4y ago

Building a niche Strava-like platform can be done. I started https://intervals.icu https://intervals.icu about 3 years ago to scratch a cycling itch and learn Vue.js. It has evolved into an analysis and planning tool for all sports. I have avoided segments because I get data from Strava (and Garmin/Suunto/Polar etc.) and that is very much their bread and butter. Intervals.icu suddenly got popular about 18 months or so ago and I had to decide to drop it or spend my whole vacation doing devops work. It also started to cost real money to run. So I started a Patreon and then implemented Stripe. Lots of people have been nice enough to signup for the optional subscription (tx guys!). But I will probably add premium features in future to encourage more signups. It is a lot of work! Large amounts of data to process and store and lots of support (have to put less bugs in the platform!). My next steps are to make this not just me. Intervals.icu has an open API and a number of apps already integrate with it.

sideshowb 4y ago

Shameless plug: I've been doing lots of modelling cycling for transport, and realized that it's hard to get accurate height data for either a road or a GPS trace. I've since solved this problem, if it's of use to you... https://github.com/fiftysevendegreesofrad/BayesianDrape https://github.com/fiftysevendegreesofrad/BayesianDrape Good luck with the project - I like the focus on MTB especially since Strava deleted all the interesting downhill segments (which was a loss to us all) and also with Trailforks going the subscription route.

xtrimsky1234 4y ago

I'm not really sure this is comparable to Strava. First this only covers mountain biking, I use Strava also for runs, swims, skiing, and it can do a lot more. Secondly I don't actually use Strava to record or view data, I use Garmin for that and just post to Strava. My only utility in Strava is the social newsfeed (to see what others are doing and be social) and also the PRs a little bit. Now given that, I think your app looks quite cool, I just wouldn't compare it to Strava. I would highly recommend instead of positioning yourself as a competitor to Strava, is to allow users to record on your app and post to Strava. I use Garmin to record my data and then post to Strava because Garmin gives me a lot more detail than Strava, but I can still compare myself to millions of users on Strava that don't use Garmin.