6 ms·

Lego to expand online ambitions by tripling total of software engineers

44 points by marban 5y ago

kderbyma 5y ago
Rival to Roblox but with better IP?
extrememacaroni 5y ago
Anyone remember Lego’s Spybotics? It was a hacking themed flash game. So many hours spent on it, it was one of the first flash games I played and was fascinated by how cool it looked. I’m not sure if I went to pogo.com to play it or not.
- pingpongrandom 5y ago
  Was this the one where you started in a jungle, and you had to use a first-gen mindstorms kit to explore Inca-like ruins? If so, yes - and that game was epic. Loved it to bits. EDIT: I think I may be thinking of something else - regardless, found a flash archive of the old games here: http://biomediaproject.com/bmp/lmp/games/lego-game-archive-contents/ http://biomediaproject.com/bmp/lmp/games/lego-game-archive-c...
  - eternityforest 5y ago
    Lego'a old site was amazing. I spent hours dreaming of one day having a Mindstorms set!
marvin 5y ago
Heard from a friend they’ve had trouble recruiting, as they pay well below market rate. Anyone know of any updates on that front?
- toyg 5y ago
  Article says they have a presence in Shanghai. I bet most will be recruited there.
- s8s8discourse 5y ago
  anecdotally, I was approached for a lead role with Lego pre-pandemic. Very high expectations for role/responsibilities and technical prowess. Very low remuneration on offer. And that was before rates and salaries shot through the roof post-pandemic. Unless that's changed, and given the seeming lack of remote roles, I will be shocked if they meet this goal without most all new hires being junior outsourced/offshore resource.
  - bombcar 5y ago
    LEGO is a bit used to paying skilled modelers lower than average because "you're being paid to play with LEGO" - perhaps they expect this would extend to software development.
    - DoingIsLearning 5y ago
      Probably more to do with the salary expectations in Denmark. Most of Europe is for a multitude of reasons still expecting to treat software as a cost centre. The expectation of an IC making as much as a Director of <insert corporate department> is unthinkable to HR, even though the market worldwide is shifting exactly in that direction.
      - locallost 5y ago
        Don't know about Denmark, but I can confirm for Germany. I think the main reason is that in contrast to e.g. the US, software people don't innovate that much, the economy is not geared toward companies that have unlimited potential, and where having good software developers is a difference in billions if not trillions. Therefore they are valued a lot less. Would love to hear what you think the reasons are.
        mathverse 5y ago
        The reason is huge taxes. Earning 90k eur in Copenhagen nets you just 47k!!!
- ijames55 5y ago
  I can only speak from my experience of The LEGO Group in London, but we've been hiring quite aggressively and successfully since I joined a year ago and paying on or just above market rate AFAIK (for London at least)
- MadsRC 5y ago
  As mentioned in another comment, they’re rates are “fine”. Not the best,but definitely not bad. They do rely on the “coolness” factor of working for LEGO though. Many people work there because their parents did or because they think it’s cool. They generally treat their employees very nice and I’d have no problem recommending them as a employer. It’s still a multinational enterprise though, with all the problems that it entails (corporate restructuring every 2-3 years, anyone?)
gonzo41 5y ago
Isn't online lego just minecraft? My experience of lego in the real world, is just minecraft in the digital world. I'm not really sure what their edge is going to be here.
- capableweb 5y ago
  I guess the biggest differential would be that Lego exists in the real world, while Minecraft is 100% digital. If you build something digital with official parts from Lego, you can build that very same thing in real-life with the very same bricks. Doing something similar with Minecraft would require creating the parts yourself (or buying them in-officially).
  - eternityforest 5y ago
    I'm slightly surprised IRL Minecraft isn't a big thing. You'd think there would be a Lego competitor with square blocks, that could stack side-to-side, and everyone would go nuts for it
    - DeltaCoast 5y ago
      A lot of what's fun about Minecraft for me is the physics and crafting. I'm not sure that translates super well to physical alone. If you're willing use your imagination for those parts, Lego does offer Minecraft sets.
      - eternityforest 5y ago
        Some of it could be done through tech. Especially if blocks were decently sized, like 5cm by 5cm. Redstone wouldn't quite work, you'd need wires or pre-stoned blocks, but you could use wireless, or adapt the concept slightly with other things like pneumatics. You could have all the blocks have removable decorative tops, and an inner part with some kind of Lego style grid that can support gears, and have a train of them where you want the redstone power. If you could find enough interesting ways to make blocks customizable you have crafting, especially if it's an open standard you can 3D print. Water would be possible if you just accept a lot of leakage(Make your thing an island and have a pump that recycles faster then it leaks), or your make your pieces fit well. If it got big you could have clubs and contests like we have shared servers. At some point you'd really just need electronic blocks to properly do a lot of this stuff though, and it would probably be hard to pull off.
zakk 5y ago
Why does every company need to try to take over the world? They make toy bricks, they actually make the freaking best toy bricks ever… Just stick to that! I know I might be exceedingly idealistic, and as soon as MBAs and consultants take over a company things need to change, but have strong feelings towards LEGO and I am fine being idealistic here!
- amelius 5y ago
  World would be a better place if companies didn't turn into profit machines but instead tried to make affordable products for everyone. And perhaps open up their expertise for other companies.
- capableweb 5y ago
  When do you suggest companies to stop "innovating" to find new excellent products they can offer? If Lego was to just continue doing what they initially did, they would still be doing houses and furniture as it was a carpentry shop initially. If they would stop after their first "hit product" (The Lego plastic bricks), then we probably wouldn't have either Legoland nor Lego Tecnic, as just two examples. Some Lego video games have been excellent as well, and I wouldn't want to miss out on more in the future. If they were to stop developing new ideas now, who knows what we're missing out on from the future? As many companies have proven before, it's not impossible to remain competitive in their current market (plastic bricks), and still be able to create new cool stuff. So I hope you're wrong, mostly for my own sake, because I still love the Lego bricks, and hope they remain the same, while I also look forward to what they can bring out in the future.
- imglorp 5y ago
  They can all smell all the cash left on the table from secondary revenue streams. Not saying they're doing this but potentially they could do: (1) the toy, (2) the app and cloud subscription for it, (3) spying, tracking and selling the user data, (4) ongoing subscription to automatically buy more of (1). Some companies are going for all four! Eg https://www.usa.philips.com/c-e/pe/sonicare-subscription/home-page.html https://www.usa.philips.com/c-e/pe/sonicare-subscription/hom...
- 5y ago
skeletal88 5y ago
I wish they opened up their new technics control interface. I don't want to be bound to use their apps which they can stop supporting any time. Do won't buy the new technics sets until then :(
- capableweb 5y ago
  > new technics control interface Which ones are you referring to specifically?
  - skeletal88 5y ago
    The control+ or whatever it's called, that you can control from phone apps butit seems that it is already opened up
- matheweis 5y ago
  I think they may be more open than it appears. LEGO published an official reference for communicating with all of the modern technic hubs on their github: https://github.com/LEGO/lego-ble-wireless-protocol-docs https://github.com/LEGO/lego-ble-wireless-protocol-docs There are several projects that have implemented parts of the protocol, ex: https://github.com/undera/pylgbst https://github.com/undera/pylgbst https://github.com/JorgePe/pyb00st https://github.com/JorgePe/pyb00st https://github.com/virantha/bricknil https://github.com/virantha/bricknil If the official protocol leaves you wanting, there exists 3rd party firmware for a most of the hubs that allows you to run python directly on the hubs: https://pybricks.com/ https://pybricks.com/
agomez314 5y ago
Instead of making more software, they should spend money on making more factories to make their legos more affordable (Lego Millenium Falcon I'm looking at you)
- capableweb 5y ago
  Would creating more factories, while having the same amount of focus on quality and quality assurance, actually lower the costs significantly? Seems like the added work and costs of creating new factories would have to be priced in into the new production for a while, so costs would still remain the same for a while.
- makeitdouble 5y ago
  Has it ever been stated that Lego prices were induced by production cost ? Also, if they were to build cheaper parts from more factories, would they lower their margins when a significant population is already paying the higher price ? In comparison, their software if really bad and needs a lot more efforts whatever price they sell their sets.
- barrkel 5y ago
  There is no necessary link between cost and price (when price > cost) without competition. You should be looking for someone to compete with Lego to apply downward pricing pressure.
  - mcphage 5y ago
    There are some serious Lego competitors out there (check out r/lepin to learn about them).
james-skemp 5y ago
As someone who has purchased the Lego Mario sets for my son, I hope this investment also leads to improvements in their app (specifically for Android). It's nifty to be able to rotate the model as you're building it, and the effects coming from the figures as they move about the various bricks in real-life, but the app performance is very hit or miss. I was pleasantly surprised to discover that all the instructions were available as PDFs.
- rvba 5y ago
  I would be more worried that support will end in few years - no updates and apps removed from play store.
MadsRC 5y ago
As someone who’s worked at the LEGO Group, I find this terribly exciting to follow. These positions will most likely (I’m not employed there anymore so this is just a guess) be for their new Copenhagen office, London office or Shanghai. They also just recently opened up their new corporate headquarters in Billund and will be looking to put people there. Tech talent is hard to come by in Denmark in general these days, but The LEGO Group has had additional issues with finding talent. The reason for this is that they insist people move to Billund - something no sane Dane would ever do, unless they really, really wanted to work for LEGO. Their rates are “fine” though. Far from being the best, but fine. Their benefits are awesome though. Last I heard, they were forcing people back to the office in a “hybrid” setup. 2 days remote, 3 days in the office. They’ve also traditionally have low employee churn - 10, 20 and 40 yearn anniversaries are very, very common.
- 0xfaded 5y ago
  If anyone does move to Denmark as a SW engineer, make sure to look into the 27% scheme which will half your income tax. Once you've lived in Denmark you become ineligible.
- Retr0sp3kt 5y ago
  As someone who has recently left LEGO’s tech department, most of this is true. Despite efforts to revamp Billund, it’s still very much in the countryside and in the middle of nowhere with next to nothing to do. Their tech implementation is dismal from end to end. And it’s pervasive throughout the company. So improving anything takes years and hundreds of meetings. Rates are fine but you could make much much more elsewhere. I got a 45% bump in my current job after laughable annual adjustments (+0.56% in 2021). Generous bonus scheme yes but no RSUs, no ESPP. And bonus is not based on personal performance at all. Cost of living is very high and taxes are insane on both income and capital gains. Software engineers in my department were ok but none were exceptional. Leadership is laughably bad. Low churn is real but not in software. A lot of the workforce are old on average. Lack of young people. Good benefits and low workload but detrimental to career progression, to your hunger to achieve and to your social life. Overall, I do not recommend unless you are offered a high salary in one of the main hubs.
sjg007 5y ago
There is a huge pile of money for Lego if they can execute. * Metaverse concept with Epic. * AR applications * Movies * Next generation Mindstorms
- nathanaldensr 5y ago
  Yaaaaaaawn.
MadsRC 5y ago
You can very easily see who in the comments has worked for The LEGO Group: They’ll write “LEGO” or “The LEGO Group” rather than Lego. The Brand Protection department hold an enormous amount of political power internally - they rival, if not outright eclipse, Legal…
marban 5y ago
https://archive.ph/oNaeU https://archive.ph/oNaeU
karmakaze 5y ago
Some absolute numbers for context. That's a scale I didn't expect. > Based in the remote Jutland town of Billund, Lego last month officially opened its digital hub in Copenhagen, adding to existing software centres in London and Shanghai. The group aims to employ 1,800 software workers by the end of 2023, triple the number it had at the start of last year, with about 400 of them based in Copenhagen.
- otikik 5y ago
  There was no mention of remote jobs in the article. I also gave their careers page[1] a look, and found no remote offers at all on the Digital/Engineering areas. Maybe I missed something. If I didn't, as someone who is currently struggling to hire software workers right now, I will say those numbers sound ... optimistic. [1] https://www.lego.com/careers https://www.lego.com/careers
- tokai 5y ago
  Unrelated to your post - but, Billund is not remote. It's part of the socalled triangle area, one of the main geographical clusters of industry and transportation in Denmark. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle_Region_(Denmark) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle_Region_(Denmark)
  - 0xfaded 5y ago
    To quote the Wikipedia article, "[regions] which together have 421,480 inhabitants". Billund airport does have a fantastic aeroclub with fast and well maintained aircraft though. Can be in Paris within 4h.
    - capableweb 5y ago
      > Can be in Paris within 4h. That doesn't seem very impressive, taking into consideration a flight from Stockholm <> Madrid takes ~4 hours, and that seems to be about double the distance as Denmark <> France.

44 points by marban 5y ago

Rival to Roblox but with better IP?

Anyone remember Lego’s Spybotics? It was a hacking themed flash game. So many hours spent on it, it was one of the first flash games I played and was fascinated by how cool it looked. I’m not sure if I went to pogo.com to play it or not.

pingpongrandom 5y ago
Was this the one where you started in a jungle, and you had to use a first-gen mindstorms kit to explore Inca-like ruins? If so, yes - and that game was epic. Loved it to bits. EDIT: I think I may be thinking of something else - regardless, found a flash archive of the old games here: http://biomediaproject.com/bmp/lmp/games/lego-game-archive-contents/ http://biomediaproject.com/bmp/lmp/games/lego-game-archive-c...
- eternityforest 5y ago
  Lego'a old site was amazing. I spent hours dreaming of one day having a Mindstorms set!

marvin 5y ago

Heard from a friend they’ve had trouble recruiting, as they pay well below market rate. Anyone know of any updates on that front?

toyg 5y ago
Article says they have a presence in Shanghai. I bet most will be recruited there.
s8s8discourse 5y ago
anecdotally, I was approached for a lead role with Lego pre-pandemic. Very high expectations for role/responsibilities and technical prowess. Very low remuneration on offer. And that was before rates and salaries shot through the roof post-pandemic. Unless that's changed, and given the seeming lack of remote roles, I will be shocked if they meet this goal without most all new hires being junior outsourced/offshore resource.
- bombcar 5y ago
  LEGO is a bit used to paying skilled modelers lower than average because "you're being paid to play with LEGO" - perhaps they expect this would extend to software development.
  - DoingIsLearning 5y ago
    Probably more to do with the salary expectations in Denmark. Most of Europe is for a multitude of reasons still expecting to treat software as a cost centre. The expectation of an IC making as much as a Director of <insert corporate department> is unthinkable to HR, even though the market worldwide is shifting exactly in that direction.
    - locallost 5y ago
      Don't know about Denmark, but I can confirm for Germany. I think the main reason is that in contrast to e.g. the US, software people don't innovate that much, the economy is not geared toward companies that have unlimited potential, and where having good software developers is a difference in billions if not trillions. Therefore they are valued a lot less. Would love to hear what you think the reasons are.
      - mathverse 5y ago
        The reason is huge taxes. Earning 90k eur in Copenhagen nets you just 47k!!!
ijames55 5y ago
I can only speak from my experience of The LEGO Group in London, but we've been hiring quite aggressively and successfully since I joined a year ago and paying on or just above market rate AFAIK (for London at least)
MadsRC 5y ago
As mentioned in another comment, they’re rates are “fine”. Not the best,but definitely not bad. They do rely on the “coolness” factor of working for LEGO though. Many people work there because their parents did or because they think it’s cool. They generally treat their employees very nice and I’d have no problem recommending them as a employer. It’s still a multinational enterprise though, with all the problems that it entails (corporate restructuring every 2-3 years, anyone?)

gonzo41 5y ago

Isn't online lego just minecraft? My experience of lego in the real world, is just minecraft in the digital world. I'm not really sure what their edge is going to be here.

capableweb 5y ago
I guess the biggest differential would be that Lego exists in the real world, while Minecraft is 100% digital. If you build something digital with official parts from Lego, you can build that very same thing in real-life with the very same bricks. Doing something similar with Minecraft would require creating the parts yourself (or buying them in-officially).
- eternityforest 5y ago
  I'm slightly surprised IRL Minecraft isn't a big thing. You'd think there would be a Lego competitor with square blocks, that could stack side-to-side, and everyone would go nuts for it
  - DeltaCoast 5y ago
    A lot of what's fun about Minecraft for me is the physics and crafting. I'm not sure that translates super well to physical alone. If you're willing use your imagination for those parts, Lego does offer Minecraft sets.
    - eternityforest 5y ago
      Some of it could be done through tech. Especially if blocks were decently sized, like 5cm by 5cm. Redstone wouldn't quite work, you'd need wires or pre-stoned blocks, but you could use wireless, or adapt the concept slightly with other things like pneumatics. You could have all the blocks have removable decorative tops, and an inner part with some kind of Lego style grid that can support gears, and have a train of them where you want the redstone power. If you could find enough interesting ways to make blocks customizable you have crafting, especially if it's an open standard you can 3D print. Water would be possible if you just accept a lot of leakage(Make your thing an island and have a pump that recycles faster then it leaks), or your make your pieces fit well. If it got big you could have clubs and contests like we have shared servers. At some point you'd really just need electronic blocks to properly do a lot of this stuff though, and it would probably be hard to pull off.

zakk 5y ago

Why does every company need to try to take over the world? They make toy bricks, they actually make the freaking best toy bricks ever… Just stick to that! I know I might be exceedingly idealistic, and as soon as MBAs and consultants take over a company things need to change, but have strong feelings towards LEGO and I am fine being idealistic here!

amelius 5y ago
World would be a better place if companies didn't turn into profit machines but instead tried to make affordable products for everyone. And perhaps open up their expertise for other companies.
capableweb 5y ago
When do you suggest companies to stop "innovating" to find new excellent products they can offer? If Lego was to just continue doing what they initially did, they would still be doing houses and furniture as it was a carpentry shop initially. If they would stop after their first "hit product" (The Lego plastic bricks), then we probably wouldn't have either Legoland nor Lego Tecnic, as just two examples. Some Lego video games have been excellent as well, and I wouldn't want to miss out on more in the future. If they were to stop developing new ideas now, who knows what we're missing out on from the future? As many companies have proven before, it's not impossible to remain competitive in their current market (plastic bricks), and still be able to create new cool stuff. So I hope you're wrong, mostly for my own sake, because I still love the Lego bricks, and hope they remain the same, while I also look forward to what they can bring out in the future.
imglorp 5y ago
They can all smell all the cash left on the table from secondary revenue streams. Not saying they're doing this but potentially they could do: (1) the toy, (2) the app and cloud subscription for it, (3) spying, tracking and selling the user data, (4) ongoing subscription to automatically buy more of (1). Some companies are going for all four! Eg https://www.usa.philips.com/c-e/pe/sonicare-subscription/home-page.html https://www.usa.philips.com/c-e/pe/sonicare-subscription/hom...
5y ago

skeletal88 5y ago

I wish they opened up their new technics control interface. I don't want to be bound to use their apps which they can stop supporting any time. Do won't buy the new technics sets until then :(

capableweb 5y ago
> new technics control interface Which ones are you referring to specifically?
- skeletal88 5y ago
  The control+ or whatever it's called, that you can control from phone apps butit seems that it is already opened up
matheweis 5y ago
I think they may be more open than it appears. LEGO published an official reference for communicating with all of the modern technic hubs on their github: https://github.com/LEGO/lego-ble-wireless-protocol-docs https://github.com/LEGO/lego-ble-wireless-protocol-docs There are several projects that have implemented parts of the protocol, ex: https://github.com/undera/pylgbst https://github.com/undera/pylgbst https://github.com/JorgePe/pyb00st https://github.com/JorgePe/pyb00st https://github.com/virantha/bricknil https://github.com/virantha/bricknil If the official protocol leaves you wanting, there exists 3rd party firmware for a most of the hubs that allows you to run python directly on the hubs: https://pybricks.com/ https://pybricks.com/

agomez314 5y ago

Instead of making more software, they should spend money on making more factories to make their legos more affordable (Lego Millenium Falcon I'm looking at you)

capableweb 5y ago
Would creating more factories, while having the same amount of focus on quality and quality assurance, actually lower the costs significantly? Seems like the added work and costs of creating new factories would have to be priced in into the new production for a while, so costs would still remain the same for a while.
makeitdouble 5y ago
Has it ever been stated that Lego prices were induced by production cost ? Also, if they were to build cheaper parts from more factories, would they lower their margins when a significant population is already paying the higher price ? In comparison, their software if really bad and needs a lot more efforts whatever price they sell their sets.
barrkel 5y ago
There is no necessary link between cost and price (when price > cost) without competition. You should be looking for someone to compete with Lego to apply downward pricing pressure.
- mcphage 5y ago
  There are some serious Lego competitors out there (check out r/lepin to learn about them).

james-skemp 5y ago

As someone who has purchased the Lego Mario sets for my son, I hope this investment also leads to improvements in their app (specifically for Android). It's nifty to be able to rotate the model as you're building it, and the effects coming from the figures as they move about the various bricks in real-life, but the app performance is very hit or miss. I was pleasantly surprised to discover that all the instructions were available as PDFs.

rvba 5y ago
I would be more worried that support will end in few years - no updates and apps removed from play store.

MadsRC 5y ago

As someone who’s worked at the LEGO Group, I find this terribly exciting to follow. These positions will most likely (I’m not employed there anymore so this is just a guess) be for their new Copenhagen office, London office or Shanghai. They also just recently opened up their new corporate headquarters in Billund and will be looking to put people there. Tech talent is hard to come by in Denmark in general these days, but The LEGO Group has had additional issues with finding talent. The reason for this is that they insist people move to Billund - something no sane Dane would ever do, unless they really, really wanted to work for LEGO. Their rates are “fine” though. Far from being the best, but fine. Their benefits are awesome though. Last I heard, they were forcing people back to the office in a “hybrid” setup. 2 days remote, 3 days in the office. They’ve also traditionally have low employee churn - 10, 20 and 40 yearn anniversaries are very, very common.

0xfaded 5y ago
If anyone does move to Denmark as a SW engineer, make sure to look into the 27% scheme which will half your income tax. Once you've lived in Denmark you become ineligible.
Retr0sp3kt 5y ago
As someone who has recently left LEGO’s tech department, most of this is true. Despite efforts to revamp Billund, it’s still very much in the countryside and in the middle of nowhere with next to nothing to do. Their tech implementation is dismal from end to end. And it’s pervasive throughout the company. So improving anything takes years and hundreds of meetings. Rates are fine but you could make much much more elsewhere. I got a 45% bump in my current job after laughable annual adjustments (+0.56% in 2021). Generous bonus scheme yes but no RSUs, no ESPP. And bonus is not based on personal performance at all. Cost of living is very high and taxes are insane on both income and capital gains. Software engineers in my department were ok but none were exceptional. Leadership is laughably bad. Low churn is real but not in software. A lot of the workforce are old on average. Lack of young people. Good benefits and low workload but detrimental to career progression, to your hunger to achieve and to your social life. Overall, I do not recommend unless you are offered a high salary in one of the main hubs.

sjg007 5y ago

There is a huge pile of money for Lego if they can execute. * Metaverse concept with Epic. * AR applications * Movies * Next generation Mindstorms

nathanaldensr 5y ago
Yaaaaaaawn.

MadsRC 5y ago

You can very easily see who in the comments has worked for The LEGO Group: They’ll write “LEGO” or “The LEGO Group” rather than Lego. The Brand Protection department hold an enormous amount of political power internally - they rival, if not outright eclipse, Legal…

marban 5y ago

https://archive.ph/oNaeU https://archive.ph/oNaeU

karmakaze 5y ago

Some absolute numbers for context. That's a scale I didn't expect. > Based in the remote Jutland town of Billund, Lego last month officially opened its digital hub in Copenhagen, adding to existing software centres in London and Shanghai. The group aims to employ 1,800 software workers by the end of 2023, triple the number it had at the start of last year, with about 400 of them based in Copenhagen.

otikik 5y ago
There was no mention of remote jobs in the article. I also gave their careers page[1] a look, and found no remote offers at all on the Digital/Engineering areas. Maybe I missed something. If I didn't, as someone who is currently struggling to hire software workers right now, I will say those numbers sound ... optimistic. [1] https://www.lego.com/careers https://www.lego.com/careers
tokai 5y ago
Unrelated to your post - but, Billund is not remote. It's part of the socalled triangle area, one of the main geographical clusters of industry and transportation in Denmark. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle_Region_(Denmark) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle_Region_(Denmark)
- 0xfaded 5y ago
  To quote the Wikipedia article, "[regions] which together have 421,480 inhabitants". Billund airport does have a fantastic aeroclub with fast and well maintained aircraft though. Can be in Paris within 4h.
  - capableweb 5y ago
    > Can be in Paris within 4h. That doesn't seem very impressive, taking into consideration a flight from Stockholm <> Madrid takes ~4 hours, and that seems to be about double the distance as Denmark <> France.