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If the authors life is not being impacted by his ADHD then he does not have ADHD. The clinical diagnosis for a mental illness is that it impacts your life in a

If the authors life is not being impacted by his ADHD then he does not have ADHD. The clinical diagnosis for a mental illness is that it impacts your life in a negative way. His attention deficit does not impact his life in a negative way, therefore it’s not a disorder. The author frankly does not know what he’s talking about. And, clinically, he does not have ADHD. I have a mood disorder (NPSLE). I am on permanent disability and I have been hospitalized several times. Even though I know my disorder comes with a gift, and rather unappreciated gift because I do consider myself neurodivergent, I also know at times I want to die at my own hands. And I also know it makes me unable to work. I think the threshold for where we think some Neurotype is affecting our life has been lowered dramatically.

dang 5y ago
Please make your substantive points without crossing into personal attack. That's always important, but especially when the topic is as sensitive and emotional as this. Certainly you're welcome to share your own experience—that's important, and what you've said about it here is important. We just need it to come without swipes and putdowns towards others. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Edit: we've had to ask you before about breaking the HN guidelines (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30570715 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30570715). If you wouldn't mind reviewing them and sticking to the intended spirit of the site, we'd appreciate it.
chrischen 5y ago
> If the authors life is not being impacted by his ADHD then he does not have ADHD. I’m not sure this is correct. If someone is managing their ADHD it doesn’t mean they don’t have it.
- FollowingTheDao 5y ago
  The expression of a disease or disorder is all that really matters. If he went into a doctors office today, instead of say 10 years ago, they would not diagnosed him with ADHD.
  - chrischen 5y ago
    A lot of people cope really well with ADHD but it doesn’t mean biologically they are not “suffering” from the disorder.
- xattt 5y ago
  Unfortunately, it seems that “affected” is being taken at face value in the parent comment, and the nuances of the presence of the disorder are being ignored. Yes, many individuals with ADHD can cope without medication and may go on to live good-enough lives that might be the envy of others. However, there may be a lot of potential being left on the table staying untreated. So to say that someone clearly doesn’t have ADHD because they don’t have a rep of reckless driving tickets because of impulsivity lapses is a bit of a slap in the face for many who still do, but developed compensation strategies to some extent.
  - FollowingTheDao 5y ago
    I did not say he never had ADHD. I’m saying he does not have it now. Do you understand the significance of that difference?
    - xattt 5y ago
      I do see what you mean. I apologize!
    - photojosh 5y ago
      "The clinical diagnosis for a mental illness is that it impacts your life in a negative way." While ADHD has a large part to play in causing mental illness, and is often misdiagnosed as bipolar, BPD, anxiety, etc, ADHD in itself it is not a mental illness, but a disability. I know this is somewhat a semantic debate, but it is important. "If someone is managing their ADHD it doesn’t mean they don’t have it." So someone who is managing their ADHD via medication doesn't have it? What about changing their occupation to one where intricate planning is no longer required of them, so they cease to be constantly failing? Someone can have ADHD and have it impact their life to a much greater or lesser extent based purely on the life situation they are in.
    - jagtesh 5y ago
      ADHD is the result of physical differences in the brain. You could be managing as well as a neurotypical individual, but that doesn’t mean you’re no longer someone with ADHD. You are born this way. Such as someone on the ASD spectrum.
iamdbtoo 5y ago
ADHD is a physical condition, not a mental illness. You can still have it an not be negatively affected by it.
- FollowingTheDao 5y ago
  All mental illnesses are physical conditions.
  - astrange 5y ago
    Personality disorders aren't physical conditions anymore than the number 2 is a physical object. They're maladaptive learned behaviors.
    - FollowingTheDao 5y ago
      Maladaptive learned behaviors change the physical structure of the brain.
      - astrange 5y ago
        That's like calling a malware infection a damaged hard drive. The way to fix them is at the same conceptual level you learned them from; we don't have offline brain editing tech.
        FollowingTheDao 5y ago
        We do have brain editing tech, it is called synaptic plasticity. We are not a computer. Or we are one that can in fact change its own hardware.
- hirvi74 5y ago
  > ADHD is a physical condition It sure is not handled like one. If that is the case, then I find it odd that most people get treated by psychiatrist and not neurologist. Also, why are fMRI and other neurological scans not used to diagnosis the illness? It seems to be merely symptom based diagnostics coupled with psychological evaluations. (I am not saying there are not structural neurological differences.)
hatware 5y ago
Sound like you're gatekeeping a disorder without understanding it. FWIW, the author definitely has ADD/ADHD based on their descriptions.
- FollowingTheDao 5y ago
  And it sounds like you’re diagnosing someone based off a blog post. By the way, don’t tell someone who is disabled and was hospitalized several times with a mood disorder that they’re gatekeeping a disorder. I can assure you, I know more than you do about mental illness, It’s genetics, and its environmental factors.
  - hatware 5y ago
    - FollowingTheDao 5y ago
      Actually, at times it makes me lack empathy and kindness for myself and then I try to die by my own hands. What you see as a lack of kindness and empathy is a reaction to the disability porn that those of us who are struggling have to endure from the general population.
  - butwhywhyoh 5y ago
    And how would what you're doing differ from "diagnosing someone based off a blog post"? You've decided they don't have it. Do you have information other than the blog post that allowed you to come to that conclusion?
    - FollowingTheDao 5y ago
      Because he said he did not have it. Not me. He said he does not suffer from it. If he is not suffering from it why would one consider it to be a disorder?
  - photojosh 5y ago
faeriechangling 5y ago
Looking at the ADHD diagnostic criteria: https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/diagnosis.html https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/diagnosis.html The criteria specifies that "There is clear evidence that the symptoms interfere with, or reduce the quality of, social, school, or work functioning." I don't see this as being the same thing as ADHD being a NEGATIVE. It's like saying that being short is a disorder because it interferes with picking fruit from tall trees, and being tall is a disorder because it interferes with your ability to be a jockey. While both of these are true, it's ultimately condescending to frame either of these as a "disorder" simply because both aspects negatively interfere with one lives in certain contexts. The diagnostic criteria does not rule out that one can be an exceptional A+ student which still has their symptoms interfere with school functioning if they're for instance repeatedly sent to the principals office for disrupting classes. Simply the very fact they have an issue that other children typically do not typically have, wipes away all consideration of their positive merits, and justifies a rather insulting label. To me, this is reflective of the typical feeling superior to those who are atypical. >I think the threshold for where we think some Neurotype is affecting our life has been lowered dramatically. Undoubtedly, but this doesn't in itself justify not lowering the threshold.
- photojosh 5y ago
  Agreed. "There's too many kids being diagnosed with ADHD." Um, just maybe those kids would really like to not be made to feel absolutely worthless in life because they have struggles with their attention that was previously written off as them being naughty or not trying hard enough? Don't get me started on what a horrendous environment a school can be to someone who might just operate a little bit differently.
- themacguffinman 5y ago
  Being short can be a disorder. It just so happens that picking fruit from tall trees by itself isn't considered by society to be a very necessary & important activity, while "social, school, or work functioning" is. Adults who remain too short to do things that are considered necessary & important for adults to do would almost certainly have a negative disorder of some kind. That criteria sentence from the CDC website is overly broad. If you watch more technical talks [1] on ADHD they go into much more detail about what ADHD is exactly and why it affects almost everything very severely (it has a specific impact on executive function, which cuts across a lot of behavior). It's not just a wishy washy way of describing a category of dysfunction. [1] one example: Dr Russell A Barkley ADHD - The 30 Essential Ideas everyone needs to know https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLzBixSjmbc8eFl6UX5_wWGP8i0mAs-cvY https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLzBixSjmbc8eFl6UX5_wW...
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
hirvi74 5y ago
> The clinical diagnosis for a mental illness is that it impacts your life in a negative way. His attention deficit does not impact his life in a negative way, therefore it’s not a disorder. In my experience, I noticed most the negative impacts caused by the disorder were actually due to how I was treated by others for the negative impact my disorder caused in their lives (real or perceived).
- atian 5y ago
  > The DSM-5 defines a mental disorder as a syndrome that causes significant disturbance in behavior, emotion, and cognition. These disorders are also usually accompanied by significant distress that affects a person's work, school, and social relationships.
  - SpicyLemonZest 5y ago
    I'm not sure there's a contradiction here. Tourette's seems like a clear example of a disorder that both represents an obvious disturbance in behavior and matters primarily because of how others react.
  - hirvi74 5y ago
    > causes significant disturbance in behavior, emotion, and cognition According to other people. What if I think my behavior or emotions are appropriate or justified? The people that are not like me get to tell me how I should be? Seems kind of sick to me. What about the opposite? Are the people that lack disturbances in behavior, emotion, and cognition really that much better off? Regardless, they are definitely accepted easier (assuming they have no other divergent issues causing them to not fit the mold). To me, it seems like ADHD is basically a diagnosis in which one lacks the proper neurological components of being a good little worker-drone in a capitalistic machine. Can't focus? Can't sit still for 8 hours straight? Take longer to complete tasks? That's no good. Take these pills, shut up, sit still, and produce! Who cares about the longterm effects of taking amphetamines everyday. It's not /their/ problem, it's /my problem/. I mean, that is all us dairy cows are good for right? And what good is a dairy cow that produces no milk?

dang 5y ago

Please make your substantive points without crossing into personal attack. That's always important, but especially when the topic is as sensitive and emotional as this. Certainly you're welcome to share your own experience—that's important, and what you've said about it here is important. We just need it to come without swipes and putdowns towards others. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Edit: we've had to ask you before about breaking the HN guidelines (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30570715 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30570715). If you wouldn't mind reviewing them and sticking to the intended spirit of the site, we'd appreciate it.

chrischen 5y ago

> If the authors life is not being impacted by his ADHD then he does not have ADHD. I’m not sure this is correct. If someone is managing their ADHD it doesn’t mean they don’t have it.

FollowingTheDao 5y ago
The expression of a disease or disorder is all that really matters. If he went into a doctors office today, instead of say 10 years ago, they would not diagnosed him with ADHD.
- chrischen 5y ago
  A lot of people cope really well with ADHD but it doesn’t mean biologically they are not “suffering” from the disorder.
xattt 5y ago
Unfortunately, it seems that “affected” is being taken at face value in the parent comment, and the nuances of the presence of the disorder are being ignored. Yes, many individuals with ADHD can cope without medication and may go on to live good-enough lives that might be the envy of others. However, there may be a lot of potential being left on the table staying untreated. So to say that someone clearly doesn’t have ADHD because they don’t have a rep of reckless driving tickets because of impulsivity lapses is a bit of a slap in the face for many who still do, but developed compensation strategies to some extent.
- FollowingTheDao 5y ago
  I did not say he never had ADHD. I’m saying he does not have it now. Do you understand the significance of that difference?
  - xattt 5y ago
    I do see what you mean. I apologize!
  - photojosh 5y ago
    "The clinical diagnosis for a mental illness is that it impacts your life in a negative way." While ADHD has a large part to play in causing mental illness, and is often misdiagnosed as bipolar, BPD, anxiety, etc, ADHD in itself it is not a mental illness, but a disability. I know this is somewhat a semantic debate, but it is important. "If someone is managing their ADHD it doesn’t mean they don’t have it." So someone who is managing their ADHD via medication doesn't have it? What about changing their occupation to one where intricate planning is no longer required of them, so they cease to be constantly failing? Someone can have ADHD and have it impact their life to a much greater or lesser extent based purely on the life situation they are in.
  - jagtesh 5y ago
    ADHD is the result of physical differences in the brain. You could be managing as well as a neurotypical individual, but that doesn’t mean you’re no longer someone with ADHD. You are born this way. Such as someone on the ASD spectrum.

iamdbtoo 5y ago

ADHD is a physical condition, not a mental illness. You can still have it an not be negatively affected by it.

FollowingTheDao 5y ago
All mental illnesses are physical conditions.
- astrange 5y ago
  Personality disorders aren't physical conditions anymore than the number 2 is a physical object. They're maladaptive learned behaviors.
  - FollowingTheDao 5y ago
    Maladaptive learned behaviors change the physical structure of the brain.
    - astrange 5y ago
      That's like calling a malware infection a damaged hard drive. The way to fix them is at the same conceptual level you learned them from; we don't have offline brain editing tech.
      - FollowingTheDao 5y ago
        We do have brain editing tech, it is called synaptic plasticity. We are not a computer. Or we are one that can in fact change its own hardware.
hirvi74 5y ago
> ADHD is a physical condition It sure is not handled like one. If that is the case, then I find it odd that most people get treated by psychiatrist and not neurologist. Also, why are fMRI and other neurological scans not used to diagnosis the illness? It seems to be merely symptom based diagnostics coupled with psychological evaluations. (I am not saying there are not structural neurological differences.)

hatware 5y ago

Sound like you're gatekeeping a disorder without understanding it. FWIW, the author definitely has ADD/ADHD based on their descriptions.

FollowingTheDao 5y ago
And it sounds like you’re diagnosing someone based off a blog post. By the way, don’t tell someone who is disabled and was hospitalized several times with a mood disorder that they’re gatekeeping a disorder. I can assure you, I know more than you do about mental illness, It’s genetics, and its environmental factors.
- hatware 5y ago
  - FollowingTheDao 5y ago
    Actually, at times it makes me lack empathy and kindness for myself and then I try to die by my own hands. What you see as a lack of kindness and empathy is a reaction to the disability porn that those of us who are struggling have to endure from the general population.
- butwhywhyoh 5y ago
  And how would what you're doing differ from "diagnosing someone based off a blog post"? You've decided they don't have it. Do you have information other than the blog post that allowed you to come to that conclusion?
  - FollowingTheDao 5y ago
    Because he said he did not have it. Not me. He said he does not suffer from it. If he is not suffering from it why would one consider it to be a disorder?
- photojosh 5y ago

faeriechangling 5y ago

Looking at the ADHD diagnostic criteria: https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/diagnosis.html https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/diagnosis.html The criteria specifies that "There is clear evidence that the symptoms interfere with, or reduce the quality of, social, school, or work functioning." I don't see this as being the same thing as ADHD being a NEGATIVE. It's like saying that being short is a disorder because it interferes with picking fruit from tall trees, and being tall is a disorder because it interferes with your ability to be a jockey. While both of these are true, it's ultimately condescending to frame either of these as a "disorder" simply because both aspects negatively interfere with one lives in certain contexts. The diagnostic criteria does not rule out that one can be an exceptional A+ student which still has their symptoms interfere with school functioning if they're for instance repeatedly sent to the principals office for disrupting classes. Simply the very fact they have an issue that other children typically do not typically have, wipes away all consideration of their positive merits, and justifies a rather insulting label. To me, this is reflective of the typical feeling superior to those who are atypical. >I think the threshold for where we think some Neurotype is affecting our life has been lowered dramatically. Undoubtedly, but this doesn't in itself justify not lowering the threshold.

photojosh 5y ago
Agreed. "There's too many kids being diagnosed with ADHD." Um, just maybe those kids would really like to not be made to feel absolutely worthless in life because they have struggles with their attention that was previously written off as them being naughty or not trying hard enough? Don't get me started on what a horrendous environment a school can be to someone who might just operate a little bit differently.
themacguffinman 5y ago
Being short can be a disorder. It just so happens that picking fruit from tall trees by itself isn't considered by society to be a very necessary & important activity, while "social, school, or work functioning" is. Adults who remain too short to do things that are considered necessary & important for adults to do would almost certainly have a negative disorder of some kind. That criteria sentence from the CDC website is overly broad. If you watch more technical talks [1] on ADHD they go into much more detail about what ADHD is exactly and why it affects almost everything very severely (it has a specific impact on executive function, which cuts across a lot of behavior). It's not just a wishy washy way of describing a category of dysfunction. [1] one example: Dr Russell A Barkley ADHD - The 30 Essential Ideas everyone needs to know https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLzBixSjmbc8eFl6UX5_wWGP8i0mAs-cvY https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLzBixSjmbc8eFl6UX5_wW...

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

hirvi74 5y ago

> The clinical diagnosis for a mental illness is that it impacts your life in a negative way. His attention deficit does not impact his life in a negative way, therefore it’s not a disorder. In my experience, I noticed most the negative impacts caused by the disorder were actually due to how I was treated by others for the negative impact my disorder caused in their lives (real or perceived).

atian 5y ago
> The DSM-5 defines a mental disorder as a syndrome that causes significant disturbance in behavior, emotion, and cognition. These disorders are also usually accompanied by significant distress that affects a person's work, school, and social relationships.
- SpicyLemonZest 5y ago
  I'm not sure there's a contradiction here. Tourette's seems like a clear example of a disorder that both represents an obvious disturbance in behavior and matters primarily because of how others react.
- hirvi74 5y ago
  > causes significant disturbance in behavior, emotion, and cognition According to other people. What if I think my behavior or emotions are appropriate or justified? The people that are not like me get to tell me how I should be? Seems kind of sick to me. What about the opposite? Are the people that lack disturbances in behavior, emotion, and cognition really that much better off? Regardless, they are definitely accepted easier (assuming they have no other divergent issues causing them to not fit the mold). To me, it seems like ADHD is basically a diagnosis in which one lacks the proper neurological components of being a good little worker-drone in a capitalistic machine. Can't focus? Can't sit still for 8 hours straight? Take longer to complete tasks? That's no good. Take these pills, shut up, sit still, and produce! Who cares about the longterm effects of taking amphetamines everyday. It's not /their/ problem, it's /my problem/. I mean, that is all us dairy cows are good for right? And what good is a dairy cow that produces no milk?