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The Internet Archive is one of those charities I started donating to many years ago, and I've never had a reason to second guess that decision. Be it stuff like

The Internet Archive is one of those charities I started donating to many years ago, and I've never had a reason to second guess that decision. Be it stuff like this or their broader mission to back up parts of the internet that could otherwise be lost forever. The internet archive, EFF, and ACLU are all very important organizations to protect internet freedoms. PS - You should also consider using Amazon Smile for "bonus" donations to your favorite charity. Gave an additional $100 that way.

tkgally 5y ago
I also donate regularly to the Internet Archive. I have benefitted from it immensely both personally and in my work, and I admire and support all of their efforts. A recent interview with Brewster Kahle, the Archive’s founder, is here: https://youtu.be/1pe-J8GER7I https://youtu.be/1pe-J8GER7I
ad_hominem 5y ago
So you don't have any issues with the ACLU's heel turn into partisan activism over the past few years? Like reversing position on vaccine mandates, fighting for mask mandates in schools, fighting against school curriculum transparency, fighting to compel speech for teachers (Loudon County)?
- camhenlin 5y ago
  Many of these talking points are only partisan in the US
  - ad_hominem 5y ago
    It's also "only in the US" where we have the most permissive free speech laws on the planet. Forgive me for expecting a little more from the former top-tier First Amendment defender to keep it that way.
    - camhenlin 5y ago
      I just looked up your list from your previous post: - ACLU supports vaccine mandates because it increases civil liberties by protecting our most vulnerable: https://www.aclu.org/news/civil-liberties/civil-liberties-and-vaccine-mandates-heres-our-take https://www.aclu.org/news/civil-liberties/civil-liberties-an... - ACLU supported mask mandates in some settings to protect vulnerable children: https://www.aclu.org/podcast/school-mask-mandate-bans-discriminate-against-disabled-kids https://www.aclu.org/podcast/school-mask-mandate-bans-discri... - Your school curriculum transparency item seems like government censorship that the ACLU was fighting: https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/aclu-comment-curriculum-transparency-bills https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/aclu-comment-curriculum-... - last, “fighting to compel speech for teachers” is a bit of a stretch — they were pushing for teachers to use students’ correct pronouns, which is a common courtesy in most settings. https://acluva.org/en/cases/byron-tanner-cross-et-al-v-loudoun-county-school-board-et-al-amicus https://acluva.org/en/cases/byron-tanner-cross-et-al-v-loudo...
      - Banana699 5y ago
        >increases civil liberties by protecting our most vulnerable What a bizarre rhetorical maneuver, civil liberties aren't increased by trying to "Protect the most vulnerable", civil liberties are increased by leaving people the fuck alone. You can acknowledge the fact that there's often a tension between individual freedom and public good and try to defend the ACLU by making a case that they chose what they view as (and many others don't share their view) public good, but twisting words to forcibly paint them as liberty defenders when they are doing the exact opposite is just strange. >supported mask mandates in some settings to protect vulnerable children The same children that study after study shows are psychologically damaged and learning-impaired by not seeing their peers' and their teachers' faces[1]. So instead of the few vulnerable children being exempted from school and taught at home or online or in special masked classes, we impose a rule that harms all children and affect, possibly permanently, their psych and development. Good call. >government censorship that the ACLU was fighting No, it isn't government censorship. It's the public deciding what the public schools they fund through taxes can and cannot teach. This is perfectly legal and perfectly moral, teachers are hired and paid salaries to teach what the school says they should teach. Especially when the allegedly "banned" topics are sexually explicit material featuring minors and debunked pseudo-history invented literally a year ago. It isn't censorship when your employer forces you to use or not use a programming language, it's how jobs work. >“fighting to compel speech for teachers” is a bit of a stretch — they were pushing for teachers to use students’ correct pronouns So, they _were_ fighting to compel speech for teachers, but that's a good thing because pronouns? >which is a common courtesy in most settings. No it's not, it's a practice invented 4 to 6 years ago by a minority of delusional individuals living in a very specific place and time, and the vast majority of people in time and space can correctly identify the 3rd person pronoun most suitable for a person on their own and call them by it without any special requests. [1] https://www.npr.org/2022/01/28/1075842341/growing-calls-to-take-masks-off-children-in-school https://www.npr.org/2022/01/28/1075842341/growing-calls-to-t...
  - qiskit 5y ago
  - syshum 5y ago
    The ACLU is the AMERICAN civil liberties union. So talking about them in an US context is the proper context
- clajiness 5y ago
  [flagged]
  - ad_hominem 5y ago
    If you want to let the ACLU "speak for themselves" here they are arguing against vaccine mandates while Trump was President: https://www.aclu.org/news/privacy-technology/coronavirus-immunity-passports-are-not-the-answer https://www.aclu.org/news/privacy-technology/coronavirus-imm... Under Biden, they switched course: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/02/opinion/covid-vaccine-mandates-civil-liberties.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/02/opinion/covid-vaccine-man... And you're flat-out lying about the mask mandates, they're suing schools who want to make them *optional*: https://twitter.com/acluva/status/1494327778203901952 https://twitter.com/acluva/status/1494327778203901952 You can stuff any amount of authoritarian "bullshit" as you put it under LGBTQA+MAP territory, using "equity" as a vanguardist spearpoint, which is what the ACLU is doing. Can you honestly say the ACLU that once defended KKK members is the same organization today? One of its former directors, Ira Glasser, thinks it's not the same, and I think most people have enough common sense to agree.
    - PuppyTailWags 5y ago
      > LGBTQA+MAP Excuse me, why are you conflating gay people and pedophiles?
      - saxonww 5y ago
        https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/maps-pride-flag/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/maps-pride-flag/ As usual, people will repeat this sort of thing when it serves their agenda.
      - techif 5y ago
        It is, fortunately, a very niche view, but some organizations are indeed pushing for pedophiles to be included in the LGBTQ+. One recently controversial example is Prostasia. Another, from the UK back in the 1970s, is the Paedophile Information Exchange (PIE). These groups, and others, have been trying to latch on to the gay rights movement for a long time.
nullc 5y ago
https://www.mightyira.com/ https://www.mightyira.com/ https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-aclu-retreats-from-free-expression-1529533065 https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-aclu-retreats-from-free-exp... https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/06/us/aclu-free-speech.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/06/us/aclu-free-speech.html
- PuppyTailWags 5y ago
  1. One is just a website to a documentary?? 2. Opinion piece; ignoring 3. It looks like the reporting is "some people are concerned the first amendment isn't being staunchly defended enough"... so every other civil liberty is on lock? That seems pretty awesome to me.
  - nullc 5y ago
    > so every other civil liberty After reading that comment, I can't help but feel that you're not familiar with the history of the ACLU. Check out the documentary.
briandear 5y ago
- zeroonetwothree 5y ago
  Why do you assume the ACLU needs to defend everything in the Bill of Rights? It was originally founded to protect freedom of speech and so that remains a primary focus. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with “cherry picking”, no one can focus on everything simultaneously.
- jasonlotito 5y ago
  > The HN crowd will debate pretty much anything done by government but it’s shocking that something like Covid policy gets a free pass from intellectual scrutiny. It doesn't. Don't confuse people disagreeing with you with them giving something a free pass. If you think it got a free pass here, you're really just telling on yourself that you didn't do the research.
- 0xcde4c3db 5y ago
  > I have a problem with the ACLU because they cherry-pick which parts of the Bill of Rights they support I have a hard time taking this rationale seriously, because everyone I know IRL who's said something like it is also a big fan of at least one of the NRA, GOA, or SAF, organizations that have an even narrower focus on which parts of the Bill of Rights they support.
  - WC3w6pXxgGd 5y ago
drusepth 5y ago
I'm sure the ACLU is doing good things, but I've been outright harassed and insulted by their people on the street far too often to ever support the organization now.
- 1123581321 5y ago
  Those are contractors that raise for a bunch of different organizations. The kids doing the work are underpaid seasonal workers, like door-to-door magazine sales back in the day.
jonah-archive 5y ago
Thank you! We do our absolute best to do as much as we can as best as we can with your donated funds. It's really appreciated.
- truemotive 5y ago
  On board to help out on the resistance front, thank you for the visibility on this one.
darawk 5y ago
The ACLU used to be a great organization, but it has basically completely abandoned its original mission: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/06/us/aclu-free-speech.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/06/us/aclu-free-speech.html The internet archive is definitely worthy of a donation though.
raverbashing 5y ago
"the @ACLU took a big donation from Amber Heard and then wrote and pitched her op-ed about being a victim of domestic abuse and then she reneged on the payment." https://twitter.com/kittypurrzog/status/1520105811753639936 https://twitter.com/kittypurrzog/status/1520105811753639936
blip54321 5y ago
The Internet Archive is in a different class than EFF or ACLU. I would (and did) donate to the ACLU and EFF of decades ago. I wouldn't to the organizations of today. There's a natural process by which organizations revert to the mean. Support the exceptional ones while they're exceptional.
paulryanrogers 5y ago
Consider avoiding Amazon and similar behemoths to help maintain a healthier market.

tkgally 5y ago

I also donate regularly to the Internet Archive. I have benefitted from it immensely both personally and in my work, and I admire and support all of their efforts. A recent interview with Brewster Kahle, the Archive’s founder, is here: https://youtu.be/1pe-J8GER7I https://youtu.be/1pe-J8GER7I

ad_hominem 5y ago

So you don't have any issues with the ACLU's heel turn into partisan activism over the past few years? Like reversing position on vaccine mandates, fighting for mask mandates in schools, fighting against school curriculum transparency, fighting to compel speech for teachers (Loudon County)?

camhenlin 5y ago
Many of these talking points are only partisan in the US
- ad_hominem 5y ago
  It's also "only in the US" where we have the most permissive free speech laws on the planet. Forgive me for expecting a little more from the former top-tier First Amendment defender to keep it that way.
  - camhenlin 5y ago
    I just looked up your list from your previous post: - ACLU supports vaccine mandates because it increases civil liberties by protecting our most vulnerable: https://www.aclu.org/news/civil-liberties/civil-liberties-and-vaccine-mandates-heres-our-take https://www.aclu.org/news/civil-liberties/civil-liberties-an... - ACLU supported mask mandates in some settings to protect vulnerable children: https://www.aclu.org/podcast/school-mask-mandate-bans-discriminate-against-disabled-kids https://www.aclu.org/podcast/school-mask-mandate-bans-discri... - Your school curriculum transparency item seems like government censorship that the ACLU was fighting: https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/aclu-comment-curriculum-transparency-bills https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/aclu-comment-curriculum-... - last, “fighting to compel speech for teachers” is a bit of a stretch — they were pushing for teachers to use students’ correct pronouns, which is a common courtesy in most settings. https://acluva.org/en/cases/byron-tanner-cross-et-al-v-loudoun-county-school-board-et-al-amicus https://acluva.org/en/cases/byron-tanner-cross-et-al-v-loudo...
    - Banana699 5y ago
      >increases civil liberties by protecting our most vulnerable What a bizarre rhetorical maneuver, civil liberties aren't increased by trying to "Protect the most vulnerable", civil liberties are increased by leaving people the fuck alone. You can acknowledge the fact that there's often a tension between individual freedom and public good and try to defend the ACLU by making a case that they chose what they view as (and many others don't share their view) public good, but twisting words to forcibly paint them as liberty defenders when they are doing the exact opposite is just strange. >supported mask mandates in some settings to protect vulnerable children The same children that study after study shows are psychologically damaged and learning-impaired by not seeing their peers' and their teachers' faces[1]. So instead of the few vulnerable children being exempted from school and taught at home or online or in special masked classes, we impose a rule that harms all children and affect, possibly permanently, their psych and development. Good call. >government censorship that the ACLU was fighting No, it isn't government censorship. It's the public deciding what the public schools they fund through taxes can and cannot teach. This is perfectly legal and perfectly moral, teachers are hired and paid salaries to teach what the school says they should teach. Especially when the allegedly "banned" topics are sexually explicit material featuring minors and debunked pseudo-history invented literally a year ago. It isn't censorship when your employer forces you to use or not use a programming language, it's how jobs work. >“fighting to compel speech for teachers” is a bit of a stretch — they were pushing for teachers to use students’ correct pronouns So, they _were_ fighting to compel speech for teachers, but that's a good thing because pronouns? >which is a common courtesy in most settings. No it's not, it's a practice invented 4 to 6 years ago by a minority of delusional individuals living in a very specific place and time, and the vast majority of people in time and space can correctly identify the 3rd person pronoun most suitable for a person on their own and call them by it without any special requests. [1] https://www.npr.org/2022/01/28/1075842341/growing-calls-to-take-masks-off-children-in-school https://www.npr.org/2022/01/28/1075842341/growing-calls-to-t...
- qiskit 5y ago
- syshum 5y ago
  The ACLU is the AMERICAN civil liberties union. So talking about them in an US context is the proper context
clajiness 5y ago
[flagged]
- ad_hominem 5y ago
  If you want to let the ACLU "speak for themselves" here they are arguing against vaccine mandates while Trump was President: https://www.aclu.org/news/privacy-technology/coronavirus-immunity-passports-are-not-the-answer https://www.aclu.org/news/privacy-technology/coronavirus-imm... Under Biden, they switched course: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/02/opinion/covid-vaccine-mandates-civil-liberties.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/02/opinion/covid-vaccine-man... And you're flat-out lying about the mask mandates, they're suing schools who want to make them *optional*: https://twitter.com/acluva/status/1494327778203901952 https://twitter.com/acluva/status/1494327778203901952 You can stuff any amount of authoritarian "bullshit" as you put it under LGBTQA+MAP territory, using "equity" as a vanguardist spearpoint, which is what the ACLU is doing. Can you honestly say the ACLU that once defended KKK members is the same organization today? One of its former directors, Ira Glasser, thinks it's not the same, and I think most people have enough common sense to agree.
  - PuppyTailWags 5y ago
    > LGBTQA+MAP Excuse me, why are you conflating gay people and pedophiles?
    - saxonww 5y ago
      https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/maps-pride-flag/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/maps-pride-flag/ As usual, people will repeat this sort of thing when it serves their agenda.
    - techif 5y ago
      It is, fortunately, a very niche view, but some organizations are indeed pushing for pedophiles to be included in the LGBTQ+. One recently controversial example is Prostasia. Another, from the UK back in the 1970s, is the Paedophile Information Exchange (PIE). These groups, and others, have been trying to latch on to the gay rights movement for a long time.

nullc 5y ago

https://www.mightyira.com/ https://www.mightyira.com/ https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-aclu-retreats-from-free-expression-1529533065 https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-aclu-retreats-from-free-exp... https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/06/us/aclu-free-speech.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/06/us/aclu-free-speech.html

PuppyTailWags 5y ago
1. One is just a website to a documentary?? 2. Opinion piece; ignoring 3. It looks like the reporting is "some people are concerned the first amendment isn't being staunchly defended enough"... so every other civil liberty is on lock? That seems pretty awesome to me.
- nullc 5y ago
  > so every other civil liberty After reading that comment, I can't help but feel that you're not familiar with the history of the ACLU. Check out the documentary.

briandear 5y ago

zeroonetwothree 5y ago
Why do you assume the ACLU needs to defend everything in the Bill of Rights? It was originally founded to protect freedom of speech and so that remains a primary focus. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with “cherry picking”, no one can focus on everything simultaneously.
jasonlotito 5y ago
> The HN crowd will debate pretty much anything done by government but it’s shocking that something like Covid policy gets a free pass from intellectual scrutiny. It doesn't. Don't confuse people disagreeing with you with them giving something a free pass. If you think it got a free pass here, you're really just telling on yourself that you didn't do the research.
0xcde4c3db 5y ago
> I have a problem with the ACLU because they cherry-pick which parts of the Bill of Rights they support I have a hard time taking this rationale seriously, because everyone I know IRL who's said something like it is also a big fan of at least one of the NRA, GOA, or SAF, organizations that have an even narrower focus on which parts of the Bill of Rights they support.
- WC3w6pXxgGd 5y ago

drusepth 5y ago

I'm sure the ACLU is doing good things, but I've been outright harassed and insulted by their people on the street far too often to ever support the organization now.

1123581321 5y ago
Those are contractors that raise for a bunch of different organizations. The kids doing the work are underpaid seasonal workers, like door-to-door magazine sales back in the day.

jonah-archive 5y ago

Thank you! We do our absolute best to do as much as we can as best as we can with your donated funds. It's really appreciated.

truemotive 5y ago
On board to help out on the resistance front, thank you for the visibility on this one.

darawk 5y ago

The ACLU used to be a great organization, but it has basically completely abandoned its original mission: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/06/us/aclu-free-speech.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/06/us/aclu-free-speech.html The internet archive is definitely worthy of a donation though.

raverbashing 5y ago

"the @ACLU took a big donation from Amber Heard and then wrote and pitched her op-ed about being a victim of domestic abuse and then she reneged on the payment." https://twitter.com/kittypurrzog/status/1520105811753639936 https://twitter.com/kittypurrzog/status/1520105811753639936

blip54321 5y ago

The Internet Archive is in a different class than EFF or ACLU. I would (and did) donate to the ACLU and EFF of decades ago. I wouldn't to the organizations of today. There's a natural process by which organizations revert to the mean. Support the exceptional ones while they're exceptional.

paulryanrogers 5y ago

Consider avoiding Amazon and similar behemoths to help maintain a healthier market.