3 ms·

> This is the equivalent of saying “try looking sexy, women, maybe you’ll get hired.” That’s not really fair (and largely not true.) What it’s saying is that

by JackFr 5y ago

> This is the equivalent of saying “try looking sexy, women, maybe you’ll get hired.” That’s not really fair (and largely not true.) What it’s saying is that appearances matter - they’re an important non-verbal signaling channel, and to the extent to which one can control the way you present, you should, and secondly, dress for the job you want. For both men and women that does not mean dress like you’re going to a club. It is also an admission that even the best of us subconsciously treat attractive people as more competent. I’m old enough to have worked during an era when you wore a suit and a tie to an interview for any position. If I showed up for a senior role at a startup wearing a suit and tie I would be telling them from the get go that I’m either I’m out of touch with the culture of the org (not good) or I choose to differentiate myself (maybe I’m a lawyer or an accountant.) Finally, as an example in my case - I am over fifty and overweight, but I am tall. I know (from mirrors) that I look better standing than sitting, so when in person interviewing I try to be standing when people enter the room simply because I get the difference between “former football player” and “fat slob”. Does it bother me? Yes and no. Ultimately I need to be able to deliver the goods, it’s nice not to have to fight through preconceptions.

pbhjpbhj 5y ago
>even the best of us subconsciously treat attractive people as more competent. // People who clearly spend/spent a lot of time on their appearance suggests to me that they're trying to use some sort of "trick" to get ahead and that this probably means they're less competent than their peers. It's like charities that give you a pen, or small quantity of money (bear with me) ... Yes, I know that psychological trick and it strictly suggests to me that yours is a charity I should not donate to. The whole "dress for the job you want", for example, is really "use people's prejudices to trick them into unconsciously overestimating your competence". Sadly, marketing tricks (ie the hostile use of psychology) work on all of us, even sometimes when we know we're being tricked. Participating in that kind of thing is a red flag to me. The "former football player" vs "fat slob" part of your comment suggests you view [or are accommodating others that view] unrelated externalities as more important than intrinsic qualities related directly to the work. That's not uncommon, but it seems like something we need to mature beyond. >I’m out of touch with the culture of the org (not good) or I choose to differentiate myself // This seems really sad to me, like a person likes to wear a tie and that's so out there you'd consider you can't work with them? Like, what if they were actually different: came from a different place, spoke different languages, had different body parts? Especially if you're coding, what's it matter if you like to wear a formal thawb (Middle-eastern robe) and they wear Hawaiian shirts and board shorts? I'm not saying people won't judge you, just that it's wrong.
- otikik 5y ago
  But that way of thinking cuts both ways. “He’s not even using the most basic forms of marketing tricks. How socially inept this person must be. How can I trust that he writes maintainable code if he’s not aware of these very basic human triggers?”
  - pbhjpbhj 5y ago
    They're aware of them but don't find the workspace somewhere for silly games? How can you trust their code, maybe, look at their code?
    - otikik 5y ago
      Again, that cuts both ways. Don’t look at the fancy clothes(or whatever you think is silly games), look at the code.
- marcosdumay 5y ago
  Hum... While I agree with it, your comment doesn't bring any reason for people not to dress up to that. Yes, the people that choose based on it are stupid, and it's a good reason for rejecting the places (and you may refuse just to run the test). But you personally isn't losing anything by looking more "whatever those people are selecting for (not competence, that's for sure)", so it is good advice.
- oblio 5y ago
  > That's not uncommon, but it seems like something we need to mature beyond. Wishful thinking won't help in real life, though. We should: * stop drinking alcohol * stop smoking tobacco * stop consuming any kind of addictive and harmful substance, such as: hard drugs, light drugs, caffeine, massive quantities of sugar, etc * start sleeping more * start working out more * stop using fossil fuels * stop using plastics ...

by JackFr 5y ago

pbhjpbhj 5y ago

>even the best of us subconsciously treat attractive people as more competent. // People who clearly spend/spent a lot of time on their appearance suggests to me that they're trying to use some sort of "trick" to get ahead and that this probably means they're less competent than their peers. It's like charities that give you a pen, or small quantity of money (bear with me) ... Yes, I know that psychological trick and it strictly suggests to me that yours is a charity I should not donate to. The whole "dress for the job you want", for example, is really "use people's prejudices to trick them into unconsciously overestimating your competence". Sadly, marketing tricks (ie the hostile use of psychology) work on all of us, even sometimes when we know we're being tricked. Participating in that kind of thing is a red flag to me. The "former football player" vs "fat slob" part of your comment suggests you view [or are accommodating others that view] unrelated externalities as more important than intrinsic qualities related directly to the work. That's not uncommon, but it seems like something we need to mature beyond. >I’m out of touch with the culture of the org (not good) or I choose to differentiate myself // This seems really sad to me, like a person likes to wear a tie and that's so out there you'd consider you can't work with them? Like, what if they were actually different: came from a different place, spoke different languages, had different body parts? Especially if you're coding, what's it matter if you like to wear a formal thawb (Middle-eastern robe) and they wear Hawaiian shirts and board shorts? I'm not saying people won't judge you, just that it's wrong.

otikik 5y ago
But that way of thinking cuts both ways. “He’s not even using the most basic forms of marketing tricks. How socially inept this person must be. How can I trust that he writes maintainable code if he’s not aware of these very basic human triggers?”
- pbhjpbhj 5y ago
  They're aware of them but don't find the workspace somewhere for silly games? How can you trust their code, maybe, look at their code?
  - otikik 5y ago
    Again, that cuts both ways. Don’t look at the fancy clothes(or whatever you think is silly games), look at the code.
marcosdumay 5y ago
Hum... While I agree with it, your comment doesn't bring any reason for people not to dress up to that. Yes, the people that choose based on it are stupid, and it's a good reason for rejecting the places (and you may refuse just to run the test). But you personally isn't losing anything by looking more "whatever those people are selecting for (not competence, that's for sure)", so it is good advice.
oblio 5y ago
> That's not uncommon, but it seems like something we need to mature beyond. Wishful thinking won't help in real life, though. We should: * stop drinking alcohol * stop smoking tobacco * stop consuming any kind of addictive and harmful substance, such as: hard drugs, light drugs, caffeine, massive quantities of sugar, etc * start sleeping more * start working out more * stop using fossil fuels * stop using plastics ...