4 ms·

I guess I've been living in the US too long because I just don't understand some (not in this article to be clear) like to shit on Crossrail. I happened to be

by cletus 4y ago

I guess I've been living in the US too long because I just don't understand some (not in this article to be clear) like to shit on Crossrail. I happened to be living in London in the early 2000s at the inception of the project and I can remember reading in 2003 the expected opening date was 2017. There was some delay in planning (of course) and we've had Covid so realistically this estimate was only 1-2 years off. That's a staggeringly successful estimate. Then we get to the cost. Estimated ~15B pounds. Actual cost is what? 20B pounds? Again, that's honestly not that bad. But I guess my perception is coloured by the Second Avenue Subway, which spent almost as much for 3 miles of tunnels compared to >25 miles of tunnels (under a 2000+ year old city, no less), a bunch of new stations and upgraded rails. One weird thing I noticed from looking at photos of the new stations. One thing I liked about the Tube was most stations had 3 sets of escalators together. This is massively beneficial. You typically have 2 up (for passengers disembarking) and 1 down. Why? People disembark in huge bursts and arrive relatively smoothly. Also, when you need to do maintenance you shut down one and still have 1 up and 1 down. But I've seen some photos of the new stations where there appears to be only 2, which is surprising and disappointing. Still, I look forward to this opening and I consider the whole project a massive success.

melling 4y ago
An additional 25,000 riders was a big deal in New York City. “Amazon is Coming, Can NYC Transit System Handle It” https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/20/nyregion/amazon-new-york-subway-queens.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/20/nyregion/amazon-new-york-... The deal fell through and now everyone has to drive to the new Amazon headquarters.
- zeristor 4y ago
  What amazes me is the London ExCeL centre which can host huge events of tens of thousands of people but the connections don’t seem to be that overloaded, with Crossrail no doubt even less so. Though sporting events still overwhelm the system albeit for an hour or so.
chippiewill 4y ago
> I guess I've been living in the US too long because I just don't understand some (not in this article to be clear) like to shit on Crossrail. The reason why Crossrail got shit on for their estimates is because they were still pushing the "on time and on budget" slogan just a month or so before it got delayed which was just a few months before it was meant to open. Everyone expects large projects like this to overrun a bit, but if you start bragging about it then you better be right.
- shapefrog 4y ago
  > "on time and on budget" slogan just a few months before it was meant to open. December 2018 was the opening date [0]; 24 July 2018: Department of Transport update [1]: On time and we are so great we managed to barter them down by 2.5bn on the cost. This will enable the completion of the project at a cost lower than planned under the last Labour government. 31 August 2018: It is announced that Crossrail's opening had been delayed by at least nine months to autumn 2019. April 2022: It still isnt open... I get shit happens, but how can you be on track 6 months away from opening and 4 years later you are still an unknown time away from opening. [0] https://assets.londonist.com/uploads/2018/08/i875/20180831_091454.jpg https://assets.londonist.com/uploads/2018/08/i875/20180831_0... [1] https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/annual-update-on-crossrail-2018 https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/annual-update-on-cros...
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
chrisseaton 4y ago
British people love to fetishise any perceived failure in any part of UK life, as if we're uniquely incompetent. https://twitter.com/nocontextbrits/status/1416314916068282372 https://twitter.com/nocontextbrits/status/141631491606828237... Ironically, I'm probably doing this myself right now - I guess people do this everywhere?
- inglor_cz 4y ago
  TIL that Czechs are honorary Brits :-) We definitely do the same.
  - WithinReason 4y ago
    It must be difficult to fault the Prague tube system, it's one of the best in the world. Certainly much better than the London one.
    - inglor_cz 4y ago
      You are right, people don't complain about the subway. But they love to complain about long repairs of tram tracks and streets on the surface, and they have a point. Repairs are usually tendered by cost only [0] and they tend to stretch for months, with very low energy effort made (e.g. you won't see any workers on the spot for days, because the tendered construction company has other jobs to do and no incentive to speed things up). [0] A nasty aftereffect of the "Great Anti-Corruption Revolution" of the early 2010s. Everyone in the public sphere is afraid to buy but the cheapest things and services. Investigations dragging for years are a punishment themselves, even if you are acquitted at the end.
- sph 4y ago
  As an Italian now living in Britain, I'm surprised how smooth and efficient things are here. Brits don't know how good they have it.
bombcar 4y ago
The picture I saw I assumed it was two ramp escalators and one stair stepped escalator.
rvieira 4y ago
> Then we get to the cost. Estimated ~15B pounds. Actual cost is what? 20B pounds? Again, that's honestly not that bad. Considering the UK gov announced 7B pound to improve transportation for _the rest of the UK_, the 5B overrun is put in perspective.

by cletus 4y ago

melling 4y ago

An additional 25,000 riders was a big deal in New York City. “Amazon is Coming, Can NYC Transit System Handle It” https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/20/nyregion/amazon-new-york-subway-queens.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/20/nyregion/amazon-new-york-... The deal fell through and now everyone has to drive to the new Amazon headquarters.

zeristor 4y ago
What amazes me is the London ExCeL centre which can host huge events of tens of thousands of people but the connections don’t seem to be that overloaded, with Crossrail no doubt even less so. Though sporting events still overwhelm the system albeit for an hour or so.

chippiewill 4y ago

> I guess I've been living in the US too long because I just don't understand some (not in this article to be clear) like to shit on Crossrail. The reason why Crossrail got shit on for their estimates is because they were still pushing the "on time and on budget" slogan just a month or so before it got delayed which was just a few months before it was meant to open. Everyone expects large projects like this to overrun a bit, but if you start bragging about it then you better be right.

shapefrog 4y ago
> "on time and on budget" slogan just a few months before it was meant to open. December 2018 was the opening date [0]; 24 July 2018: Department of Transport update [1]: On time and we are so great we managed to barter them down by 2.5bn on the cost. This will enable the completion of the project at a cost lower than planned under the last Labour government. 31 August 2018: It is announced that Crossrail's opening had been delayed by at least nine months to autumn 2019. April 2022: It still isnt open... I get shit happens, but how can you be on track 6 months away from opening and 4 years later you are still an unknown time away from opening. [0] https://assets.londonist.com/uploads/2018/08/i875/20180831_091454.jpg https://assets.londonist.com/uploads/2018/08/i875/20180831_0... [1] https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/annual-update-on-crossrail-2018 https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/annual-update-on-cros...

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

chrisseaton 4y ago

British people love to fetishise any perceived failure in any part of UK life, as if we're uniquely incompetent. https://twitter.com/nocontextbrits/status/1416314916068282372 https://twitter.com/nocontextbrits/status/141631491606828237... Ironically, I'm probably doing this myself right now - I guess people do this everywhere?

inglor_cz 4y ago
TIL that Czechs are honorary Brits :-) We definitely do the same.
- WithinReason 4y ago
  It must be difficult to fault the Prague tube system, it's one of the best in the world. Certainly much better than the London one.
  - inglor_cz 4y ago
    You are right, people don't complain about the subway. But they love to complain about long repairs of tram tracks and streets on the surface, and they have a point. Repairs are usually tendered by cost only [0] and they tend to stretch for months, with very low energy effort made (e.g. you won't see any workers on the spot for days, because the tendered construction company has other jobs to do and no incentive to speed things up). [0] A nasty aftereffect of the "Great Anti-Corruption Revolution" of the early 2010s. Everyone in the public sphere is afraid to buy but the cheapest things and services. Investigations dragging for years are a punishment themselves, even if you are acquitted at the end.
sph 4y ago
As an Italian now living in Britain, I'm surprised how smooth and efficient things are here. Brits don't know how good they have it.

bombcar 4y ago

The picture I saw I assumed it was two ramp escalators and one stair stepped escalator.

rvieira 4y ago

> Then we get to the cost. Estimated ~15B pounds. Actual cost is what? 20B pounds? Again, that's honestly not that bad. Considering the UK gov announced 7B pound to improve transportation for _the rest of the UK_, the 5B overrun is put in perspective.