6 ms·

Yes, the 60s was far, far, far more disillusioned than this.

by b112 5y ago

bsenftner 5y ago
And the baby boomers who created the upset of the 60's are now in charge, and their disillusioned leadership is pushing these divisions ever wider. They are the institutions and they do not trust themselves, as is clear via the leadership stalemate and both parties destroying their best hopes in favor of the crumbling and ever more distant wealthy status quo.
- Clubber 5y ago
  >And the baby boomers who created the upset of the 60's are now in charge, and their disillusioned leadership is pushing these divisions ever wider. Why do people think of an entire generation of people as a single minded entity? Might as well say, "women," or "men," or "humans." Did you know the majority of baby boomers weren't hippies? Looking at documentaries of the era, you'd think they were. Many boomers hated hippies. So which boomers are creating these divisions? The hippies or the non-hippies? >their disillusioned leadership is pushing these divisions ever wider. This would be much more targeted (and accurate) if you said the current generation of politicians. Last time I checked, I've mostly only had two bad choices for president since I've been voting. The third choice was, "throwing away my vote." Guess who came up with that one? The politicians. When you blame a generation of people, you don't blame the people who actually have the power to make the decisions affecting our lives.
  - sleepdreamy 5y ago
    Is this sarcasm? It's truly laughable if you don't think boomers had a clear advantage in comparison to Millennials, Gen X, etc; I'm sorry you didn't reap the benefits of the most benevolent time in America's history but plenty of your Boomer counter-parts sure as hell did. I've met enough Boomers that there is nothing wrong with generalizing Boomers as a whole. Just like a huge percentage of my generation totally gave up and resort to 'UNFAIR MEH WON'T TRY NOW'. Am in that camp? No. I don't get upset when people generalize because it doesn't pertain to me as an individual. There is some truth to prejudice Boomers had an era of prosperity that we will never see again. My in-laws purchased their first home in 1971 for 60,000. That same home is worth 800,000+ The only reason I can even own a home or compete in my late 20's is because I wasn't naïve enough to think that any degree would pay the bills. You might not like it, but Boomers took their hoard and pulled the ladder up behind them. It is what it is.
    - ROTMetro 5y ago
      https://www.humanprogress.org/u-s-housing-became-much-more-affordable-over-the-last-40-years/ https://www.humanprogress.org/u-s-housing-became-much-more-a...
    - Clubber 5y ago
      >You might not like it, but Boomers took their hoard and pulled the ladder up behind them. It is what it is. And what mechanism did they use to do this exactly? >I've met enough Boomers that there is nothing wrong with generalizing Boomers as a whole. Just like a huge percentage of my generation totally gave up and resort to 'UNFAIR MEH WON'T TRY NOW'. Am in that camp? No. I don't get upset when people generalize because it doesn't pertain to me as an individual. There is some truth to prejudice Its an unwillingness to understand the predicament or situation and just blaming it on a group of people. It's pretty common throughout history; a weapon wielded by the powerful. >I'm sorry you didn't reap the benefits of the most benevolent time in America's history but plenty of your Boomer counter-parts sure as hell did. I'm not a Boomer.
      - ryukafalz 5y ago
        > And what mechanism did they use to do this exactly? NIMBYism making it difficult to build enough housing for everyone and inflating housing costs, for example.
      - spaniard89277 5y ago
        Housing in almost all the west is a huge rent extraction scheme made possible by politicians catering to boomers and run by boomer savings allocated in real state + NIMBYism from boomers that prevent the market to adjust.
        bombcar 5y ago
        Boomers created CALIFORNIA and drive everyone into the same cities. All hail the powerful boomers.
    - throwawayboise 5y ago
- deleted 5y ago
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- deleted 5y ago
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- jjav 5y ago
  > And the baby boomers who created the upset of the 60's are now in charge No, "they" are not. The few people in the inner political circles of that generation are in charge, same as every other time in history. The normal hardworking people are never in charge. I remember when in middle school (Gen X here) I thought when our youth generation grows up and gets to be in charge the world will be better, because everyone I knew in school and out was so reasonable and so nice. Surely none of these people will be the corrupt politicians of tomorrow? And turns out they(we)'re not the corrupt politicians of today. Because none of those regular kids of then are in charge. Who is? The children and grandchildren of the corrupt politicians of back then, groomed from childhood to be the corrupt politicians of today. They weren't in our middle class school of course, so never met any of them. How to break that cycle? Ideally by voting for people not affiliated with the dominant two parties, but the system is rigged against that succeeding, so I don't know.
  - imtringued 5y ago
    Introduce sortition or citizen's assemblies.
  - ROTMetro 5y ago
    As a gen-x-er I agree. I realized this year that in the last 30 years politically, NOT ONE STEP OF PROGRESS HAS HAPPENED. 30 years ago the big political issues were culture wars (Gingrich vs Clinton), row v wade, unaffordable healthcare. Guess what we have today? Culture wars, row v wade, unaffordable healthcare, unaffordable housing. Fuck, well, that's progress. If you try to support a third party things it splits the vote so much things are too divided so nothing gets done. Support a mainstream party, surprisingly, also nothing gets done. For 30 years. Before my generation they stymied the hippies. Before that the Lost Generation was just made invisible by the Greatest Generation. And the Greatest Generation was made too exhausted by fighting WW2. It is not a generational issue. I promise, no generation says 'I don't want things to be better for my kids'. It's our political class. They are garbage.
Mountain_Skies 5y ago
Everything that happened to a Baby Boomer was the most extreme ever. All other generations before Baby Boomers and since the Baby Boomers have had an easier time than the Baby Boomers. Their experiences are the Alpha and the Omega of human experience. When they die, the universe probably will cease to exist.
- groby_b 5y ago
  That, frankly, would be a small price to pay to stop hearing arguments about specialness of that generation.
  - elefanten 5y ago
    I’ve never heard an argument about the “specialness” of that generation? I’ve only heard the relentless shit all the younger generations started talking about Boomers at some point. Which always came as a surprise to me… If we’re going to generalize about people based on generation (bad idea, but…)— I conclude that every generation since the Boomers has been linearly weaker and less competent, in aggregate, than the generation before it. Definitely in the West, but I suspect everywhere. And no, I’m not a Boomer, I’m one of the younger ones.
    - BlargMcLarg 5y ago
      >I’ve only heard the relentless shit all the younger generations started talking about Boomers at some point. Counterreaction, a lot of voices claiming to speak for boomers, or boomers themselves, have done plenty to claim "it's just young people messing up". Despite the obvious that they have been the majority voter base for decades, have more wealth as a collective, and because of their age and wealth, tend to have different incentives and opinions than the younger generations having problems to do something as simple as getting a foothold in adult life. NB: the obvious problem isn't "boomer / old", but the nature of the social game as it is (relatively or perceived zero-sum) and the haves voting against the have nots. >I conclude that every generation since the Boomers has been linearly weaker and less competent Weaker and less competent how? I assure you, for every argument you'll find, you can find another argument which would flip the script.
boh 5y ago
The idea of mass disillusionment is pretty academic. If we just think about it for a moment, it's very hard to argue that there was some cohesive, clearly articulated illusion that was shared by everyone regardless of demographic, and it was somehow lost. The narrative of mass disillusionment is more based on the limits of a historical narrative that must broadly categorize a mass of people as having a unified reaction for the sake of a simplified historical account. Disillusionment is a persistent experience for people as they grow up. The idea that one period was "more" disillusioned than another isn't a real phenomenon.
- entropicdrifter 5y ago
  I disagree with your core point entirely. Humanity is largely self-grouped by culture. Cultures fundamentally share mythologies, both about themselves and about other cultures, be they rival or friendly. What we experienced in the '60s and are experiencing right now is a dissolution of the predominant self-mythology in American culture, which was temporarily boosted to a high degree of uniformity first by the advent of mass media, then again by 9/11. That's what's causing the culture war we're all entrenched in, willing or not. American self-mythology is in a period of redefining itself. As cultural collapses go, mass media (the internet included) has caused these unprecedented waves of disillusionment happening at lightning speed compared to how they happened in the past. Historically it took massive famines to cause the degree of social unrest that modern war photos and videos can incite (as in the Vietnam era). The speed of communication is unprecedented; as a result, so is the severity of this age-old issue.
UncleOxidant 5y ago
That may have been the case among the young (coincidentally the boomers). But it would be difficult to make the case that a significant percentage of people over 30 were disillusioned in that era.
ROTMetro 5y ago
80s checking in. It was way more disillusioned too. They created a whole genre of punk music where the lyrics were basically fuck Thatcher/Reagan for a reason.

Yes, the 60s was far, far, far more disillusioned than this.

by b112 5y ago

Yes, the 60s was far, far, far more disillusioned than this.

And the baby boomers who created the upset of the 60's are now in charge, and their disillusioned leadership is pushing these divisions ever wider. They are the institutions and they do not trust themselves, as is clear via the leadership stalemate and both parties destroying their best hopes in favor of the crumbling and ever more distant wealthy status quo.

Clubber 5y ago
>And the baby boomers who created the upset of the 60's are now in charge, and their disillusioned leadership is pushing these divisions ever wider. Why do people think of an entire generation of people as a single minded entity? Might as well say, "women," or "men," or "humans." Did you know the majority of baby boomers weren't hippies? Looking at documentaries of the era, you'd think they were. Many boomers hated hippies. So which boomers are creating these divisions? The hippies or the non-hippies? >their disillusioned leadership is pushing these divisions ever wider. This would be much more targeted (and accurate) if you said the current generation of politicians. Last time I checked, I've mostly only had two bad choices for president since I've been voting. The third choice was, "throwing away my vote." Guess who came up with that one? The politicians. When you blame a generation of people, you don't blame the people who actually have the power to make the decisions affecting our lives.
- sleepdreamy 5y ago
  Is this sarcasm? It's truly laughable if you don't think boomers had a clear advantage in comparison to Millennials, Gen X, etc; I'm sorry you didn't reap the benefits of the most benevolent time in America's history but plenty of your Boomer counter-parts sure as hell did. I've met enough Boomers that there is nothing wrong with generalizing Boomers as a whole. Just like a huge percentage of my generation totally gave up and resort to 'UNFAIR MEH WON'T TRY NOW'. Am in that camp? No. I don't get upset when people generalize because it doesn't pertain to me as an individual. There is some truth to prejudice Boomers had an era of prosperity that we will never see again. My in-laws purchased their first home in 1971 for 60,000. That same home is worth 800,000+ The only reason I can even own a home or compete in my late 20's is because I wasn't naïve enough to think that any degree would pay the bills. You might not like it, but Boomers took their hoard and pulled the ladder up behind them. It is what it is.
  - ROTMetro 5y ago
    https://www.humanprogress.org/u-s-housing-became-much-more-affordable-over-the-last-40-years/ https://www.humanprogress.org/u-s-housing-became-much-more-a...
  - Clubber 5y ago
    >You might not like it, but Boomers took their hoard and pulled the ladder up behind them. It is what it is. And what mechanism did they use to do this exactly? >I've met enough Boomers that there is nothing wrong with generalizing Boomers as a whole. Just like a huge percentage of my generation totally gave up and resort to 'UNFAIR MEH WON'T TRY NOW'. Am in that camp? No. I don't get upset when people generalize because it doesn't pertain to me as an individual. There is some truth to prejudice Its an unwillingness to understand the predicament or situation and just blaming it on a group of people. It's pretty common throughout history; a weapon wielded by the powerful. >I'm sorry you didn't reap the benefits of the most benevolent time in America's history but plenty of your Boomer counter-parts sure as hell did. I'm not a Boomer.
    - ryukafalz 5y ago
      > And what mechanism did they use to do this exactly? NIMBYism making it difficult to build enough housing for everyone and inflating housing costs, for example.
    - spaniard89277 5y ago
      Housing in almost all the west is a huge rent extraction scheme made possible by politicians catering to boomers and run by boomer savings allocated in real state + NIMBYism from boomers that prevent the market to adjust.
      - bombcar 5y ago
        Boomers created CALIFORNIA and drive everyone into the same cities. All hail the powerful boomers.
  - throwawayboise 5y ago
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
jjav 5y ago
> And the baby boomers who created the upset of the 60's are now in charge No, "they" are not. The few people in the inner political circles of that generation are in charge, same as every other time in history. The normal hardworking people are never in charge. I remember when in middle school (Gen X here) I thought when our youth generation grows up and gets to be in charge the world will be better, because everyone I knew in school and out was so reasonable and so nice. Surely none of these people will be the corrupt politicians of tomorrow? And turns out they(we)'re not the corrupt politicians of today. Because none of those regular kids of then are in charge. Who is? The children and grandchildren of the corrupt politicians of back then, groomed from childhood to be the corrupt politicians of today. They weren't in our middle class school of course, so never met any of them. How to break that cycle? Ideally by voting for people not affiliated with the dominant two parties, but the system is rigged against that succeeding, so I don't know.
- imtringued 5y ago
  Introduce sortition or citizen's assemblies.
- ROTMetro 5y ago
  As a gen-x-er I agree. I realized this year that in the last 30 years politically, NOT ONE STEP OF PROGRESS HAS HAPPENED. 30 years ago the big political issues were culture wars (Gingrich vs Clinton), row v wade, unaffordable healthcare. Guess what we have today? Culture wars, row v wade, unaffordable healthcare, unaffordable housing. Fuck, well, that's progress. If you try to support a third party things it splits the vote so much things are too divided so nothing gets done. Support a mainstream party, surprisingly, also nothing gets done. For 30 years. Before my generation they stymied the hippies. Before that the Lost Generation was just made invisible by the Greatest Generation. And the Greatest Generation was made too exhausted by fighting WW2. It is not a generational issue. I promise, no generation says 'I don't want things to be better for my kids'. It's our political class. They are garbage.

Mountain_Skies 5y ago

Everything that happened to a Baby Boomer was the most extreme ever. All other generations before Baby Boomers and since the Baby Boomers have had an easier time than the Baby Boomers. Their experiences are the Alpha and the Omega of human experience. When they die, the universe probably will cease to exist.

groby_b 5y ago
That, frankly, would be a small price to pay to stop hearing arguments about specialness of that generation.
- elefanten 5y ago
  I’ve never heard an argument about the “specialness” of that generation? I’ve only heard the relentless shit all the younger generations started talking about Boomers at some point. Which always came as a surprise to me… If we’re going to generalize about people based on generation (bad idea, but…)— I conclude that every generation since the Boomers has been linearly weaker and less competent, in aggregate, than the generation before it. Definitely in the West, but I suspect everywhere. And no, I’m not a Boomer, I’m one of the younger ones.
  - BlargMcLarg 5y ago
    >I’ve only heard the relentless shit all the younger generations started talking about Boomers at some point. Counterreaction, a lot of voices claiming to speak for boomers, or boomers themselves, have done plenty to claim "it's just young people messing up". Despite the obvious that they have been the majority voter base for decades, have more wealth as a collective, and because of their age and wealth, tend to have different incentives and opinions than the younger generations having problems to do something as simple as getting a foothold in adult life. NB: the obvious problem isn't "boomer / old", but the nature of the social game as it is (relatively or perceived zero-sum) and the haves voting against the have nots. >I conclude that every generation since the Boomers has been linearly weaker and less competent Weaker and less competent how? I assure you, for every argument you'll find, you can find another argument which would flip the script.

boh 5y ago

The idea of mass disillusionment is pretty academic. If we just think about it for a moment, it's very hard to argue that there was some cohesive, clearly articulated illusion that was shared by everyone regardless of demographic, and it was somehow lost. The narrative of mass disillusionment is more based on the limits of a historical narrative that must broadly categorize a mass of people as having a unified reaction for the sake of a simplified historical account. Disillusionment is a persistent experience for people as they grow up. The idea that one period was "more" disillusioned than another isn't a real phenomenon.

entropicdrifter 5y ago
I disagree with your core point entirely. Humanity is largely self-grouped by culture. Cultures fundamentally share mythologies, both about themselves and about other cultures, be they rival or friendly. What we experienced in the '60s and are experiencing right now is a dissolution of the predominant self-mythology in American culture, which was temporarily boosted to a high degree of uniformity first by the advent of mass media, then again by 9/11. That's what's causing the culture war we're all entrenched in, willing or not. American self-mythology is in a period of redefining itself. As cultural collapses go, mass media (the internet included) has caused these unprecedented waves of disillusionment happening at lightning speed compared to how they happened in the past. Historically it took massive famines to cause the degree of social unrest that modern war photos and videos can incite (as in the Vietnam era). The speed of communication is unprecedented; as a result, so is the severity of this age-old issue.

UncleOxidant 5y ago

That may have been the case among the young (coincidentally the boomers). But it would be difficult to make the case that a significant percentage of people over 30 were disillusioned in that era.

ROTMetro 5y ago

80s checking in. It was way more disillusioned too. They created a whole genre of punk music where the lyrics were basically fuck Thatcher/Reagan for a reason.