3 ms·

Disclaimer : I have no competencies whatsoever on judging the matter but there are other studies that conclude to increased risk of some kind of cardiac failure

Disclaimer : I have no competencies whatsoever on judging the matter but there are other studies that conclude to increased risk of some kind of cardiac failure, even for young people as a consequence of COVID (something the the first line of the article acknowledges). What possible mechanism could play in even more risk after vaccination ? The only mechanism I am able to imagine would be the COVID spike protein itself since it produced both during the infection and vaccination. But I know biology can be incredibly complicated times. So, provided the results are statically significant since it seems to be the standard, what possible hypotheses can be made ?

zackees 5y ago
cas14655 5y ago
yes, spike protein is the culprit I think. When the vaccine came out it was believed that the spike is harmless but later it was shown that the spike protein is enough to cause symptoms similar to the disease COVID. [1] For a long time people thought that the mRNA, and therefore the spike from the vax, would stay in the muscle tissue and be broken down in a matter of days. This study [2] in Cell found that, actually, the mRNA can get to the lymph nodes and cause spike production for as long as 60 days. Spike protein is also found in the blood of 96% of vaccinees and the concentration is comparable to that of an acute infection. [1] https://www.contagionlive.com/view/spike-protein-of-sars-cov-2-virus-alone-can-cause-damage-to-lungs https://www.contagionlive.com/view/spike-protein-of-sars-cov... [2] https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(22)00076-9 https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(22)00076-9
lamontcg 5y ago
We actually do know that the adenovirus-vectored vaccines (ChAdOx1, etc) do cause blood clotting disorders. > The only mechanism I am able to imagine would be the COVID spike protein itself since it produced both during the infection and vaccination. But this is bad logic. The mechanism behind the adenovirus clotting adverse reactions is that Platlet Factor 4 sticks to the adenovirus capsid. It shares nothing with SARS-CoV-2 at all. Since the virus sticks to the capsid it is endocytosed as the virus particle enters cells. That results in PF4 inside of cells, which is not supposed to happen. Some people have the 'right' HLA subtype and bits of the PF4 molecule is displayed on the surface of their cells. Then further some breakdown happens in the bodies identification of "self" proteins in some people and the immune system starts to produce autoantibodies against PF4. This autoantibody attack results in vaccine-induced immune thrombotic thrombocytopenia. Both SARS-CoV-2 viral infection and adenovirus-based vaccines can cause clotting issues. Biologically they only really share the spike protein in common. But the clotting issues observed after ChAdOx vaccination are due to a mechanism unique to adenoviruses (and naturally occurring human adenoviruses may cause the same issues, but it has never been detected before). [The other comment here is also full of nonsense. The spike protein is contained within the cell producing it. There is detectable spike protein in the blood of some people post-vaccine but at femtogram per mL concentrations that require special assays to detect, likely due to lysing of the cells in lymph nodes and tiny bit escaping. This is very unlikely to have any direct biological effect] https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.abl8213 https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.abl8213 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEyaRZeF_hI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEyaRZeF_hI
- nradov 5y ago
  The mRNA vaccines aren't adenovirus vectored. Those vaccines are known to increase myocarditis risk, although less so than a COVID-19 infection. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7114e1.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7114e1.htm
- cassepipe 5y ago
  Thanks for pointing out the logical flaw

zackees 5y ago

cas14655 5y ago

yes, spike protein is the culprit I think. When the vaccine came out it was believed that the spike is harmless but later it was shown that the spike protein is enough to cause symptoms similar to the disease COVID. [1] For a long time people thought that the mRNA, and therefore the spike from the vax, would stay in the muscle tissue and be broken down in a matter of days. This study [2] in Cell found that, actually, the mRNA can get to the lymph nodes and cause spike production for as long as 60 days. Spike protein is also found in the blood of 96% of vaccinees and the concentration is comparable to that of an acute infection. [1] https://www.contagionlive.com/view/spike-protein-of-sars-cov-2-virus-alone-can-cause-damage-to-lungs https://www.contagionlive.com/view/spike-protein-of-sars-cov... [2] https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(22)00076-9 https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(22)00076-9

lamontcg 5y ago

We actually do know that the adenovirus-vectored vaccines (ChAdOx1, etc) do cause blood clotting disorders. > The only mechanism I am able to imagine would be the COVID spike protein itself since it produced both during the infection and vaccination. But this is bad logic. The mechanism behind the adenovirus clotting adverse reactions is that Platlet Factor 4 sticks to the adenovirus capsid. It shares nothing with SARS-CoV-2 at all. Since the virus sticks to the capsid it is endocytosed as the virus particle enters cells. That results in PF4 inside of cells, which is not supposed to happen. Some people have the 'right' HLA subtype and bits of the PF4 molecule is displayed on the surface of their cells. Then further some breakdown happens in the bodies identification of "self" proteins in some people and the immune system starts to produce autoantibodies against PF4. This autoantibody attack results in vaccine-induced immune thrombotic thrombocytopenia. Both SARS-CoV-2 viral infection and adenovirus-based vaccines can cause clotting issues. Biologically they only really share the spike protein in common. But the clotting issues observed after ChAdOx vaccination are due to a mechanism unique to adenoviruses (and naturally occurring human adenoviruses may cause the same issues, but it has never been detected before). [The other comment here is also full of nonsense. The spike protein is contained within the cell producing it. There is detectable spike protein in the blood of some people post-vaccine but at femtogram per mL concentrations that require special assays to detect, likely due to lysing of the cells in lymph nodes and tiny bit escaping. This is very unlikely to have any direct biological effect] https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.abl8213 https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.abl8213 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEyaRZeF_hI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEyaRZeF_hI

nradov 5y ago
The mRNA vaccines aren't adenovirus vectored. Those vaccines are known to increase myocarditis risk, although less so than a COVID-19 infection. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7114e1.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7114e1.htm
cassepipe 5y ago
Thanks for pointing out the logical flaw