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> If you set everything up right, and choose the host for your mail server carefully, and never change IP, after a fairly short time you won't have much problem

> If you set everything up right, and choose the host for your mail server carefully, and never change IP, after a fairly short time you won't have much problem with being marked as spam. No more so than with any other email host. This is untrue. If you are the only person using your email server, your volume will be so low that the big providers (Gmail, Outlook, etc.) won't track your reputation. So, ironically, being a low-volume sender means your email will be constantly classified as spam. I speak from experience: https://www.attejuvonen.fi/dont-send-email-from-your-own-server/ https://www.attejuvonen.fi/dont-send-email-from-your-own-ser...

jhugo 5y ago
"This is untrue" and yet I and others in this thread have been doing this for a long time without encountering the issue that you so confidently claim exists. My email server is used by two people. Reputation is tracked by all the big providers, as evidenced by a) my email not being classified as spam, and b) them showing reputation of my domains in their various reputation dashboards. "Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those that are doing it."
- baobabKoodaa 5y ago
  > "This is untrue" and yet I and others in this thread have been doing this for a long time without encountering the issue that you so confidently claim exists. When you make a claim that supposedly applies to all people, a single counterpoint is sufficient to disprove the claim. It's as if you had said "all rabbits are black", then I showed you a white rabbit to counter that not all rabbits are black, and you come back with "look, I have a black rabbit here". How does that make sense to you? > them showing reputation of my domains in their various reputation dashboards. I never got access to their dashboards because my email volume was so low. If you somehow did, good for you. > "Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those that are doing it." I'm not "interrupting you from doing it". I'm interrupting you from giving bad advice to OTHER people.
  - jhugo 5y ago
    > When you make a claim that supposedly applies to all people, a single counterpoint is sufficient to disprove the claim. It's as if you had said "all rabbits are black", then I showed you a white rabbit to counter that not all rabbits are black, and you come back with "look, I have a black rabbit here". How does that make sense to you? Well said! Your claim is "it is not possible to self-host your own mail on a low-volume server and not get consistently marked as spam by GMail / other large operators". The existence of a single person successfully doing exactly that (and there are numerous such people in this very thread) is sufficient to disprove your claim.
    - baobabKoodaa 5y ago
      You're correct, I shot myself in the foot there. But can we agree that some people manage to successfully run their own email servers and some people don't?
      - jhugo 5y ago
        Oh, absolutely. I wouldn't recommend it casually to everyone, but if someone says "hey, I want to learn to host my own mail, but everyone tells me I shouldn't", I'm totally going to recommend they do it. If they have the desire to learn, it's likely (not certain! but likely) that they'll succeed. I do think that most of the effort/risk is at the beginning. Making sure you're on a reputable provider, checking the history of your IP, setting your mail server & the security features up correctly, monitoring deliverability etc. After everything is working well, if you got that part right, the ongoing effort should basically just be keeping software up-to-date. You could always get unlucky and e.g. someone starts sending spam on a nearby IP and you have to waste some time dealing with that, but hopefully if you picked your provider well that won't happen. It's yet to happen to me, but my provider only offers dedicated servers, which are probably not so popular with spammers.
        loup-vaillant 5y ago
        > Making sure you're on a reputable provider Oh, that tiny little detail where it has become impossible for almost anyone to actually send email from home, either because residential IPs are all marked as spam, or because your provider is giving you an incomplete internet connection that blocks outgoing SMTP. > You could always get unlucky and e.g. someone starts sending spam on a nearby IP Can someone tell me why providers ever thought it was a good idea to block entire IP ranges?
- MarcellusDrum 5y ago
  Not an expert on this, but maybe this is because you have been hosting your server for 20 years? Maybe newer servers have a higher threshold to cross? Seems a logical hypothesis to me, which would mean you're both right.
  - dugite-code 5y ago
    I selfhosted my email server on the same IP address for 10 years and never got my reputation tracked. I remember once reading that they needed something in the range of a few thousand emails going to their servers. I swear it used to be listed on the google dashboard but like everything else email related they hide this information to "protect from spammers". Sounds like an excuse for anti-compeditive behaviour to me
jjav 5y ago
> being a low-volume sender means your email will be constantly classified as spam "will" is a strong word. I've read that very low volume sending server can sometimes have issues, but never experienced it. My outgoing volume is about as low as it gets since it's just me and some family that don't use it much, but don't experience any problems.
- baobabKoodaa 5y ago
  Have you measured your deliverability?
warble 5y ago
I have a low volume mail server and don't have any problem with this.
- baobabKoodaa 5y ago
  Is this a feeling or did you actually measure your deliverability?

jhugo 5y ago

"This is untrue" and yet I and others in this thread have been doing this for a long time without encountering the issue that you so confidently claim exists. My email server is used by two people. Reputation is tracked by all the big providers, as evidenced by a) my email not being classified as spam, and b) them showing reputation of my domains in their various reputation dashboards. "Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those that are doing it."

baobabKoodaa 5y ago
> "This is untrue" and yet I and others in this thread have been doing this for a long time without encountering the issue that you so confidently claim exists. When you make a claim that supposedly applies to all people, a single counterpoint is sufficient to disprove the claim. It's as if you had said "all rabbits are black", then I showed you a white rabbit to counter that not all rabbits are black, and you come back with "look, I have a black rabbit here". How does that make sense to you? > them showing reputation of my domains in their various reputation dashboards. I never got access to their dashboards because my email volume was so low. If you somehow did, good for you. > "Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those that are doing it." I'm not "interrupting you from doing it". I'm interrupting you from giving bad advice to OTHER people.
- jhugo 5y ago
  > When you make a claim that supposedly applies to all people, a single counterpoint is sufficient to disprove the claim. It's as if you had said "all rabbits are black", then I showed you a white rabbit to counter that not all rabbits are black, and you come back with "look, I have a black rabbit here". How does that make sense to you? Well said! Your claim is "it is not possible to self-host your own mail on a low-volume server and not get consistently marked as spam by GMail / other large operators". The existence of a single person successfully doing exactly that (and there are numerous such people in this very thread) is sufficient to disprove your claim.
  - baobabKoodaa 5y ago
    You're correct, I shot myself in the foot there. But can we agree that some people manage to successfully run their own email servers and some people don't?
    - jhugo 5y ago
      Oh, absolutely. I wouldn't recommend it casually to everyone, but if someone says "hey, I want to learn to host my own mail, but everyone tells me I shouldn't", I'm totally going to recommend they do it. If they have the desire to learn, it's likely (not certain! but likely) that they'll succeed. I do think that most of the effort/risk is at the beginning. Making sure you're on a reputable provider, checking the history of your IP, setting your mail server & the security features up correctly, monitoring deliverability etc. After everything is working well, if you got that part right, the ongoing effort should basically just be keeping software up-to-date. You could always get unlucky and e.g. someone starts sending spam on a nearby IP and you have to waste some time dealing with that, but hopefully if you picked your provider well that won't happen. It's yet to happen to me, but my provider only offers dedicated servers, which are probably not so popular with spammers.
      - loup-vaillant 5y ago
        > Making sure you're on a reputable provider Oh, that tiny little detail where it has become impossible for almost anyone to actually send email from home, either because residential IPs are all marked as spam, or because your provider is giving you an incomplete internet connection that blocks outgoing SMTP. > You could always get unlucky and e.g. someone starts sending spam on a nearby IP Can someone tell me why providers ever thought it was a good idea to block entire IP ranges?
MarcellusDrum 5y ago
Not an expert on this, but maybe this is because you have been hosting your server for 20 years? Maybe newer servers have a higher threshold to cross? Seems a logical hypothesis to me, which would mean you're both right.
- dugite-code 5y ago
  I selfhosted my email server on the same IP address for 10 years and never got my reputation tracked. I remember once reading that they needed something in the range of a few thousand emails going to their servers. I swear it used to be listed on the google dashboard but like everything else email related they hide this information to "protect from spammers". Sounds like an excuse for anti-compeditive behaviour to me

jjav 5y ago

> being a low-volume sender means your email will be constantly classified as spam "will" is a strong word. I've read that very low volume sending server can sometimes have issues, but never experienced it. My outgoing volume is about as low as it gets since it's just me and some family that don't use it much, but don't experience any problems.

baobabKoodaa 5y ago
Have you measured your deliverability?

warble 5y ago

I have a low volume mail server and don't have any problem with this.

baobabKoodaa 5y ago
Is this a feeling or did you actually measure your deliverability?