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Suddenly it feels so stupid that we're spending so much money (or any money at all) in breaking things and killing each other instead of making things. What a w

Suddenly it feels so stupid that we're spending so much money (or any money at all) in breaking things and killing each other instead of making things. What a waste. We're all close neighbors in this isolated planet, bickering amongst ourselves. Maybe we need a proper alien invasion to bring us all together? Although we're facing global threats right now (climate change, pandemics...) and we can't get our sh...tuff together, so I don't have much hope in that scenario either. Makes me think of Don't Look Up. Welp, I've made myself sad now.

micromacrofoot 4y ago
I've been complaining about this for 30 years (and protesting sometimes too). It feels hopeless, on some days I completely understand why some protestors immolate themselves... but younger generations have always made me feel a little better (I wish more of them would vote, but I understand why they don't).
- 0xdada 4y ago
  There have been 14 cases of (political) self-immolation in the 2020s so far: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_self-immolations#2020s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_self-immolat...
  - micromacrofoot 4y ago
    yes, notably just last week in front of the US Supreme Court for climate change inaction... some Buddhists consider it a compassionate act
jotm 4y ago
That's what I thought right up until Russia invaded Ukraine. I couldn't believe it happened for 3 days. Nah, as long as there's humans around, you better be armed and trained. Vicious animals, you never know when they'll decide to rape then kill you.
- argsll 4y ago
  I agree that in this decade the invasion was unexpected. I couldn't believe it either until I read up on the history of the region. In the 2000s, many nations (including Ukraine!) supported the second Iraq war that was motivated by the known false accusation of WMD presence in Iraq: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coalition_of_the_willing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coalition_of_the_willing
  - yesenadam 4y ago
    > In the 2000s, many nations (including Ukraine!) supported the second Iraq war The leaders supported it, but I'm not sure the people in those nations did. The protests were huge and worldwide, even before the invasion started. This page makes inspiring reading: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protests_against_the_Iraq_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protests_against_the_Iraq_War
- nightski 4y ago
  Weird, to me it was pretty obvious for weeks if not months what was going to happen. I actually was not surprised at all when it did. Very disappointed, but not surprised. If you are in the U.S. it's probably easy sitting on top of the world economically wondering why people fight. That's what I find amusing about HN. Life is great making $300k/year at FAANG. Why do people fight?
  - jotm 4y ago
    Think again, this is happening right at the border for me.
inferense 4y ago
what a sad state of affairs that people think the most plausible solution to unifying us all is a common enemy serving us with a strong insecurity of our future..
- deltaonefour 4y ago
  Sad but real. Necessity breeds unity, however as creatures of natural selection, we are evolved to all make ourselves more fit and more successful for selection. We compete, have wars and are in conflict because it is woven into our basic biology. Unity exists in biology only as an anomaly, because the complexity of your biological existence from your brain to your arms, hand and feet exist because your ancestors triumphed over others.
crmd 4y ago
If there were an alien invasion tomorrow, conspiracy theorists would immediately begin claiming that aliens don’t exist and anyone who believes in them has been brainwashed by George Soros and CNN. Nothing will change.
- maxehmookau 4y ago
  Well, that's depressing and probably accurate.
- xyzzy123 4y ago
  A recognisable alien invasion happening in our lifetimes is... astronomically improbable. I think it would be reasonable to be initially skeptical. Certainly if I just saw it on TV, it seems most probable that the news has got it wrong somehow.
  - marcosdumay 4y ago
    A recognizable alien invasion is astronomically improbably by itself, no need to constrain into a lifetime. If we got invaded, we would all die never knowing it's happening.
- adolph 4y ago
  Don't Look up was a reasonably funny sendup in a similar vein. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don't_Look_Up https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don't_Look_Up
- 4b2f736670 4y ago
  As a bit of a conspiracy theorist myself, I would have to disagree. I'm honestly thankful when a presumed conspiracy is verified and adopts mass support. The Snowden leaks are a great example. People forget that pre-2013, USA mass surveillance was a conspiracy theory. James Clapper lied under oath to downplay the scope of the surveillance, and anyone who suggested this was a conspiracy theorist. I was considered a conspiracy theorist among certain friend groups. WMD in Iraq is another example that was very frustrating. Powerful people have conspired to commit crimes all throughout history. It seems we need a new word to describe this, because I guess conspiracy means something different to most people.
pulse7 4y ago
This is a direct consequence of having a free will: if only one world leader decides (in his free will) to terrorize others, others must defend themselves against him - and so they are spending money for military...
- crmd 4y ago
  This is the fatal game theory problem with peaceful utopia. All it takes is one sociopath to realize they can increase their power by breaking the rules, and now we need to spend resources on a global police force.
  - goodpoint 4y ago
    > All it takes is one sociopath No, it does not. The are probably tenths of millions of sociopaths out there and 99.99% of them are not given the power to become dictators/CEOs. In healthy societies they don't even get hired as cops.
    - crmd 4y ago
      Power is taken not given. This is why highly competent sociopaths are magnetically attracted to founding and leading large corporations and running for public office. Once in power they use their influence in ways that harms society but helps themselves. I don’t see how a society populated by humans could survive without institutions to protect humanity from the tyrants amongst our own.
      - dane-pgp 4y ago
        > institutions to protect humanity But why do those institutions have to be armed? In theory, if corporations were under sufficiently vigilant democratic control, and the electoral/political system meant that leaders and policies reflected the best interests of most people, then sociopaths would have their power taken from them the moment they tried to wield it in an inappropriate way.
        4y ago
the_only_law 4y ago
What do you mean we aren’t making things, I’ve seen all sorts of fascinating Raytheon weapons!
cdiddy2 4y ago
So many of our innovations come out of the military though. Yes its sad we don't do that sort of research in different circumstances, but its an incredible motivating and driving force to get things done
- SiempreViernes 4y ago
  The military mainly funds military innovations and that's the only area where they are the unique provider of solutions. Too bad things like radar absorbing coating or pre-fragmentation of shells are useless for civilians. Famous innovations from ww2 like radio, radar, and computers all had civilian precursors that were then expediently targeted with funding to develop further. That is not really a testimony to the unusual innovation powers of the military, it's a statement about the political power of war as a means to concentrate resources.
OtomotO 4y ago
In the end, we are just sentient apes on a space rock. We won't pass the great filter.
- deltaonefour 4y ago
  The great filter? You mean when the sun expands and burns everyone? I feel some of us have a small shot of escaping it with hibernation and a spacecraft that can last millions of years. Doesn't seem too far fetched for this tech to be realized.
  - wing-_-nuts 4y ago
    There are lots of ways humanity could be wiped off this rock long before the sun burns the earth to a crisp in 600M years. I'd argue if we haven't transitioned to a fleet of o'neil cylinders by then, we've probably earned our extinction.
chmod600 4y ago
Bring us all together around what? Everyone always leaves that part out. The only reasonable answer would be freedom, so that diverse people can be happy together. Anything else is merely a call for everyone else to do things the way you want. But there's no consensus around freedom. When it comes down to it, a lot of people don't want it.
- rcMgD2BwE72F 4y ago
  That's why freedom is not enough. There's a reason why France chose to combine liberty with equality and fraternity.
  - chmod600 4y ago
    But what does fraternity mean for diverse people? What is the unifying principle? It's easy to call someone your brother if they are similar to you. Not so easy when they are truly different.
    - dane-pgp 4y ago
      > What is the unifying principle? I know it sounds self-referential, but the unifying principle(s) could be liberty, equality, and fraternity. In other words, you exhibit fraternity by supporting your fellow citizens as they work with you towards expanding and defending those shared values. What that means in practice depends on your skills and interests, but it could for example mean serving alongside citizens of different ethnicities in a non-segregated army (or military alliance), or hiring employees of a different religion in a non-discriminating business.
      - chmod600 4y ago
        Unifying around freedom makes sense to me. Unifying around fraternity sounds entirely circular. Military service doesn't sound like a way to unify the world -- who is the enemy? Unifying around a business is about producing/creating. That is a major common ground in the world and has (in my opinion) created a lot of peace. It doesn't feel like a complete answer, though -- for instance China still feels very distant despite our economic ties.
imtringued 4y ago
>Maybe we need a proper alien invasion to bring us all together? You mean Putin?

micromacrofoot 4y ago

I've been complaining about this for 30 years (and protesting sometimes too). It feels hopeless, on some days I completely understand why some protestors immolate themselves... but younger generations have always made me feel a little better (I wish more of them would vote, but I understand why they don't).

0xdada 4y ago
There have been 14 cases of (political) self-immolation in the 2020s so far: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_self-immolations#2020s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_self-immolat...
- micromacrofoot 4y ago
  yes, notably just last week in front of the US Supreme Court for climate change inaction... some Buddhists consider it a compassionate act

jotm 4y ago

That's what I thought right up until Russia invaded Ukraine. I couldn't believe it happened for 3 days. Nah, as long as there's humans around, you better be armed and trained. Vicious animals, you never know when they'll decide to rape then kill you.

argsll 4y ago
I agree that in this decade the invasion was unexpected. I couldn't believe it either until I read up on the history of the region. In the 2000s, many nations (including Ukraine!) supported the second Iraq war that was motivated by the known false accusation of WMD presence in Iraq: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coalition_of_the_willing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coalition_of_the_willing
- yesenadam 4y ago
  > In the 2000s, many nations (including Ukraine!) supported the second Iraq war The leaders supported it, but I'm not sure the people in those nations did. The protests were huge and worldwide, even before the invasion started. This page makes inspiring reading: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protests_against_the_Iraq_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protests_against_the_Iraq_War
nightski 4y ago
Weird, to me it was pretty obvious for weeks if not months what was going to happen. I actually was not surprised at all when it did. Very disappointed, but not surprised. If you are in the U.S. it's probably easy sitting on top of the world economically wondering why people fight. That's what I find amusing about HN. Life is great making $300k/year at FAANG. Why do people fight?
- jotm 4y ago
  Think again, this is happening right at the border for me.

inferense 4y ago

what a sad state of affairs that people think the most plausible solution to unifying us all is a common enemy serving us with a strong insecurity of our future..

deltaonefour 4y ago
Sad but real. Necessity breeds unity, however as creatures of natural selection, we are evolved to all make ourselves more fit and more successful for selection. We compete, have wars and are in conflict because it is woven into our basic biology. Unity exists in biology only as an anomaly, because the complexity of your biological existence from your brain to your arms, hand and feet exist because your ancestors triumphed over others.

crmd 4y ago

If there were an alien invasion tomorrow, conspiracy theorists would immediately begin claiming that aliens don’t exist and anyone who believes in them has been brainwashed by George Soros and CNN. Nothing will change.

maxehmookau 4y ago
Well, that's depressing and probably accurate.
xyzzy123 4y ago
A recognisable alien invasion happening in our lifetimes is... astronomically improbable. I think it would be reasonable to be initially skeptical. Certainly if I just saw it on TV, it seems most probable that the news has got it wrong somehow.
- marcosdumay 4y ago
  A recognizable alien invasion is astronomically improbably by itself, no need to constrain into a lifetime. If we got invaded, we would all die never knowing it's happening.
adolph 4y ago
Don't Look up was a reasonably funny sendup in a similar vein. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don't_Look_Up https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don't_Look_Up
4b2f736670 4y ago
As a bit of a conspiracy theorist myself, I would have to disagree. I'm honestly thankful when a presumed conspiracy is verified and adopts mass support. The Snowden leaks are a great example. People forget that pre-2013, USA mass surveillance was a conspiracy theory. James Clapper lied under oath to downplay the scope of the surveillance, and anyone who suggested this was a conspiracy theorist. I was considered a conspiracy theorist among certain friend groups. WMD in Iraq is another example that was very frustrating. Powerful people have conspired to commit crimes all throughout history. It seems we need a new word to describe this, because I guess conspiracy means something different to most people.

pulse7 4y ago

This is a direct consequence of having a free will: if only one world leader decides (in his free will) to terrorize others, others must defend themselves against him - and so they are spending money for military...

crmd 4y ago
This is the fatal game theory problem with peaceful utopia. All it takes is one sociopath to realize they can increase their power by breaking the rules, and now we need to spend resources on a global police force.
- goodpoint 4y ago
  > All it takes is one sociopath No, it does not. The are probably tenths of millions of sociopaths out there and 99.99% of them are not given the power to become dictators/CEOs. In healthy societies they don't even get hired as cops.
  - crmd 4y ago
    Power is taken not given. This is why highly competent sociopaths are magnetically attracted to founding and leading large corporations and running for public office. Once in power they use their influence in ways that harms society but helps themselves. I don’t see how a society populated by humans could survive without institutions to protect humanity from the tyrants amongst our own.
    - dane-pgp 4y ago
      > institutions to protect humanity But why do those institutions have to be armed? In theory, if corporations were under sufficiently vigilant democratic control, and the electoral/political system meant that leaders and policies reflected the best interests of most people, then sociopaths would have their power taken from them the moment they tried to wield it in an inappropriate way.
      - 4y ago

the_only_law 4y ago

What do you mean we aren’t making things, I’ve seen all sorts of fascinating Raytheon weapons!

cdiddy2 4y ago

So many of our innovations come out of the military though. Yes its sad we don't do that sort of research in different circumstances, but its an incredible motivating and driving force to get things done

SiempreViernes 4y ago
The military mainly funds military innovations and that's the only area where they are the unique provider of solutions. Too bad things like radar absorbing coating or pre-fragmentation of shells are useless for civilians. Famous innovations from ww2 like radio, radar, and computers all had civilian precursors that were then expediently targeted with funding to develop further. That is not really a testimony to the unusual innovation powers of the military, it's a statement about the political power of war as a means to concentrate resources.

OtomotO 4y ago

In the end, we are just sentient apes on a space rock. We won't pass the great filter.

deltaonefour 4y ago
The great filter? You mean when the sun expands and burns everyone? I feel some of us have a small shot of escaping it with hibernation and a spacecraft that can last millions of years. Doesn't seem too far fetched for this tech to be realized.
- wing-_-nuts 4y ago
  There are lots of ways humanity could be wiped off this rock long before the sun burns the earth to a crisp in 600M years. I'd argue if we haven't transitioned to a fleet of o'neil cylinders by then, we've probably earned our extinction.

chmod600 4y ago

Bring us all together around what? Everyone always leaves that part out. The only reasonable answer would be freedom, so that diverse people can be happy together. Anything else is merely a call for everyone else to do things the way you want. But there's no consensus around freedom. When it comes down to it, a lot of people don't want it.

rcMgD2BwE72F 4y ago
That's why freedom is not enough. There's a reason why France chose to combine liberty with equality and fraternity.
- chmod600 4y ago
  But what does fraternity mean for diverse people? What is the unifying principle? It's easy to call someone your brother if they are similar to you. Not so easy when they are truly different.
  - dane-pgp 4y ago
    > What is the unifying principle? I know it sounds self-referential, but the unifying principle(s) could be liberty, equality, and fraternity. In other words, you exhibit fraternity by supporting your fellow citizens as they work with you towards expanding and defending those shared values. What that means in practice depends on your skills and interests, but it could for example mean serving alongside citizens of different ethnicities in a non-segregated army (or military alliance), or hiring employees of a different religion in a non-discriminating business.
    - chmod600 4y ago
      Unifying around freedom makes sense to me. Unifying around fraternity sounds entirely circular. Military service doesn't sound like a way to unify the world -- who is the enemy? Unifying around a business is about producing/creating. That is a major common ground in the world and has (in my opinion) created a lot of peace. It doesn't feel like a complete answer, though -- for instance China still feels very distant despite our economic ties.

imtringued 4y ago

>Maybe we need a proper alien invasion to bring us all together? You mean Putin?