4 ms·

This is a good idea. I've had two employers with "unlimited PTO". One of them explicitly set an expectation that I was expected to take at least 4 weeks per yea

by macksd 4y ago

This is a good idea. I've had two employers with "unlimited PTO". One of them explicitly set an expectation that I was expected to take at least 4 weeks per year. And it wasn't in writing, but everyone was told this, so there's "witnesses" which is better than nothing. This actually worked really well, and everyone seemed to take an appropriate amount of time, but no one was explicitly keeping track or expecting you to fill out paperwork just to take a break. Another employer said you needed to talk to your manager and justify time off with regards to results, and the timing of your break, relative to releases, etc. In this scenario I hardly took any time off, but folks who clearly didn't care about their manager took SO MUCH. Learn from me, though: they never gave me the promotion I was chasing anyway.

cmrdporcupine 4y ago
Frankly, over my 20 year career, I've learned the best way to get promotions is to switch jobs.
- metadat 4y ago
  The hook strategy works great in the beginning of a career. My experience later on is once you want Director or VP level roles at a noteworthy company, prospective employers are only keen to hire you at whatever level you've actually achieved. The jump from Senior Engineer to Tech Lead is orders of magnitude easier, totally doable by bailing to the next gig.
- kingcharles 4y ago
  Absolutely agreed. There is generally no way to get your current company to understand your worth to them. You're in the "friend zone" with your employer.
joezydeco 4y ago
One of them explicitly set an expectation that I was expected to take at least 4 weeks per year. That's interesting. In my state, you are owed accrued unused vacation time on your departure. One of the biggest reasons for going "unlimited PTO" is that there's no accrual, therefore they owe you nothing. Does explicitly saying "4 weeks" put them back in the hook for that, or does saying "expect" get them back off the hook again?
- cagey 4y ago
  > One of the biggest reasons for going "unlimited PTO" is that there's no accrual, therefore they owe you nothing. IMO that's the only reason for employers to offer "unlimited PTO" schemes. > Does explicitly saying "4 weeks" put them back in the hook for that, or does saying "expect" get them back off the hook again? Hmm, at my most recent employer, I heard passdown from my manager that "the man above" (VP) had "guided" that 5 weeks was the ceiling for "unlimited" and that TPTB would look askance at anyone taking more. But this was all "off the record".
  - pph 4y ago
    > unlimited > up to 5 weeks This seems surreal to me, given that here (Germany) that is just above the legal minimum and every decent job gives 25-30 days. If someone offered "unlimited" here, I'd expect at least 40-50 days to be acceptable.
    - cmrdporcupine 4y ago
      Legal minimum for salaried work in Canada is 2 weeks I believe, and I doubt there's a minimum at all in the US. Google Canada capped us out at 5 weeks and that was after years of lobbying. But we could take copious unpaid time, and we were well paid, so.
    - pvinis 4y ago
      I got 40 last year. talking with people, I understood that this is an acceptable amount. on the high side, but acceptable.
  - dbrueck 4y ago
    >> One of the biggest reasons for going "unlimited PTO" is that there's no accrual, therefore they owe you nothing. > IMO that's the only reason for employers to offer "unlimited PTO" schemes. I think that's generally true, but at my company (which is a very small startup of about a dozen people) we have unlimited PTO because we just really don't want to bother with tracking it.

by macksd 4y ago

cmrdporcupine 4y ago

Frankly, over my 20 year career, I've learned the best way to get promotions is to switch jobs.

metadat 4y ago
The hook strategy works great in the beginning of a career. My experience later on is once you want Director or VP level roles at a noteworthy company, prospective employers are only keen to hire you at whatever level you've actually achieved. The jump from Senior Engineer to Tech Lead is orders of magnitude easier, totally doable by bailing to the next gig.
kingcharles 4y ago
Absolutely agreed. There is generally no way to get your current company to understand your worth to them. You're in the "friend zone" with your employer.

joezydeco 4y ago

One of them explicitly set an expectation that I was expected to take at least 4 weeks per year. That's interesting. In my state, you are owed accrued unused vacation time on your departure. One of the biggest reasons for going "unlimited PTO" is that there's no accrual, therefore they owe you nothing. Does explicitly saying "4 weeks" put them back in the hook for that, or does saying "expect" get them back off the hook again?

cagey 4y ago
> One of the biggest reasons for going "unlimited PTO" is that there's no accrual, therefore they owe you nothing. IMO that's the only reason for employers to offer "unlimited PTO" schemes. > Does explicitly saying "4 weeks" put them back in the hook for that, or does saying "expect" get them back off the hook again? Hmm, at my most recent employer, I heard passdown from my manager that "the man above" (VP) had "guided" that 5 weeks was the ceiling for "unlimited" and that TPTB would look askance at anyone taking more. But this was all "off the record".
- pph 4y ago
  > unlimited > up to 5 weeks This seems surreal to me, given that here (Germany) that is just above the legal minimum and every decent job gives 25-30 days. If someone offered "unlimited" here, I'd expect at least 40-50 days to be acceptable.
  - cmrdporcupine 4y ago
    Legal minimum for salaried work in Canada is 2 weeks I believe, and I doubt there's a minimum at all in the US. Google Canada capped us out at 5 weeks and that was after years of lobbying. But we could take copious unpaid time, and we were well paid, so.
  - pvinis 4y ago
    I got 40 last year. talking with people, I understood that this is an acceptable amount. on the high side, but acceptable.
- dbrueck 4y ago
  >> One of the biggest reasons for going "unlimited PTO" is that there's no accrual, therefore they owe you nothing. > IMO that's the only reason for employers to offer "unlimited PTO" schemes. I think that's generally true, but at my company (which is a very small startup of about a dozen people) we have unlimited PTO because we just really don't want to bother with tracking it.