4 ms·

Unlimited internet is mostly a marketing term. Until you buy a DIA circuit you are just getting regular ISP access or prioritized ISP access.

unityByFreedom 5y ago
Companies can be held accountable in court for words used in their marketing.
- Karrot_Kream 5y ago
  I think you're just angry at ISPs (I don't blame you, they're usually monopolies or oligopolies which engage in dirty behavior.) But given the state of the market, I don't know a _single_ ISP or customer that would confuse DIA for regular bandwidth. Buying DIA involves getting a quote from the ISP and going back-and-forth with an operator over how to connect. And the fine print for most ISPs explains what "unlimited bandwidth" generally means.
  - Retric 5y ago
    Fine print isn’t a blanket solution for false advertising issues. Essentially advertising X while providing Y becomes a question of fraud.
    - seanp2k2 5y ago
      ISPs pay enough to politicians that it’s not a problem they really have to solve. It works out through game theory. Solving it requires playing better and beating them.
      - cto_of_antifa 5y ago
  - unityByFreedom 5y ago
    ISPs took tons of taxpayer dollars, often have lousy service, maintain regional monopolies, and lobby municipalities out of building their own networks with shady dealings. Who would be satisified with that? We can do better. > But given the state of the market, I don't know a _single_ ISP or customer that would confuse DIA for regular bandwidth. You brought up DIA. I didn't see anyone else comment on it.
  - NikolaNovak 5y ago
    >> I don't know a _single_ ISP or customer that would confuse DIA for regular bandwidth I mean, How could they? I'm an IT professional, read a fair bit, and know a random smattering of networking terms from MPLS to T1 to DSL to SMTP to FTP, setup my own VLANs and Access Points at home, but I didn't know what "DIA" is. Saying that "ISP customer would not confuse DIA for regular bandwidth" seems like an incongruous sentence. >>And the fine print for most ISPs explains what "unlimited bandwidth" generally means. Be that as it may be, I pay some amount of money for some amount of service, whether spelled out clearly or heinously. I agree that narrative "Netflix is pushing data onto poor helpless ISPs" is disingenuous at best, and double-dipping by any definition.
imtringued 5y ago
Yes but that is the ISP's problem. They are the ones that must get their damn business model in order.
- Karrot_Kream 5y ago
  There's no point being angry here, anger won't solve this mess or give you "unlimited internet". I'm just relaying the reality. There's _no definition_ of "unlimited internet" that's enforceable by law. The closest you have is a DIA circuit which is as close as you'll get to having an ethernet cable directly connected into an ISP router to your house. Other than that, "unlimited internet" doesn't mean anything. A residential ISP will do some best effort packet routing, and a business-grade non-DIA ISP package will give you prioritized packets and usually an SLA on your connection. Some connections may give you a data cap per month while others don't, but even without a data cap there's no guarantee that your packets will be prioritized or even not dropped due to congestion. The only industry standard that guides QoS and bandwidth metering is the standards that networking equipment vendors come up with in their implementations and that's the only thing offering a semblance of repeatability to this industry. IMO the solution has to come from the FTC. The US has neglected to regulate telecoms in the name of innovation for a long time, but now so much of everyday life happens atop telecom companies that I think it's imperative they regulate properly. This includes term sheets showing exactly what internet service is being offered and maybe just doing away with the term "unlimited internet" altogether.

unityByFreedom 5y ago

Companies can be held accountable in court for words used in their marketing.

Karrot_Kream 5y ago
I think you're just angry at ISPs (I don't blame you, they're usually monopolies or oligopolies which engage in dirty behavior.) But given the state of the market, I don't know a _single_ ISP or customer that would confuse DIA for regular bandwidth. Buying DIA involves getting a quote from the ISP and going back-and-forth with an operator over how to connect. And the fine print for most ISPs explains what "unlimited bandwidth" generally means.
- Retric 5y ago
  Fine print isn’t a blanket solution for false advertising issues. Essentially advertising X while providing Y becomes a question of fraud.
  - seanp2k2 5y ago
    ISPs pay enough to politicians that it’s not a problem they really have to solve. It works out through game theory. Solving it requires playing better and beating them.
    - cto_of_antifa 5y ago
- unityByFreedom 5y ago
  ISPs took tons of taxpayer dollars, often have lousy service, maintain regional monopolies, and lobby municipalities out of building their own networks with shady dealings. Who would be satisified with that? We can do better. > But given the state of the market, I don't know a _single_ ISP or customer that would confuse DIA for regular bandwidth. You brought up DIA. I didn't see anyone else comment on it.
- NikolaNovak 5y ago
  >> I don't know a _single_ ISP or customer that would confuse DIA for regular bandwidth I mean, How could they? I'm an IT professional, read a fair bit, and know a random smattering of networking terms from MPLS to T1 to DSL to SMTP to FTP, setup my own VLANs and Access Points at home, but I didn't know what "DIA" is. Saying that "ISP customer would not confuse DIA for regular bandwidth" seems like an incongruous sentence. >>And the fine print for most ISPs explains what "unlimited bandwidth" generally means. Be that as it may be, I pay some amount of money for some amount of service, whether spelled out clearly or heinously. I agree that narrative "Netflix is pushing data onto poor helpless ISPs" is disingenuous at best, and double-dipping by any definition.

imtringued 5y ago

Yes but that is the ISP's problem. They are the ones that must get their damn business model in order.

Karrot_Kream 5y ago
There's no point being angry here, anger won't solve this mess or give you "unlimited internet". I'm just relaying the reality. There's _no definition_ of "unlimited internet" that's enforceable by law. The closest you have is a DIA circuit which is as close as you'll get to having an ethernet cable directly connected into an ISP router to your house. Other than that, "unlimited internet" doesn't mean anything. A residential ISP will do some best effort packet routing, and a business-grade non-DIA ISP package will give you prioritized packets and usually an SLA on your connection. Some connections may give you a data cap per month while others don't, but even without a data cap there's no guarantee that your packets will be prioritized or even not dropped due to congestion. The only industry standard that guides QoS and bandwidth metering is the standards that networking equipment vendors come up with in their implementations and that's the only thing offering a semblance of repeatability to this industry. IMO the solution has to come from the FTC. The US has neglected to regulate telecoms in the name of innovation for a long time, but now so much of everyday life happens atop telecom companies that I think it's imperative they regulate properly. This includes term sheets showing exactly what internet service is being offered and maybe just doing away with the term "unlimited internet" altogether.