5 ms·

I live in locked-down Shanghai – here’s what life is like

42 points by RickJWagner 5y ago

krageon 5y ago
tl;dr: They have to stay at home, but still get food. When they are sick they're taken to a hospital. People are angry because of the lack of agency, primarily. Or so the article claims :) It is a US publication, and they always have to be taken with a grain of salt when it comes to anything that isn't the US.
- Georgelemental 5y ago
  There are many stories about people dying in the waiting room because they had to wait for their covid test to come back negative before ERs in Shanghai were allowed to treat them.
- Mattasher 5y ago
  This is a funny way to frame mass indefinite home detention, filthy quarantine centers, and the many, many reports of people not having enough to eat, and deaths from lack of access to medical care. Did you know that only residents with official permission to be in Shanghai are getting food? What do you think is happening to everyone else?
  - routerl 5y ago
    > Did you know that only residents with official permission to be in Shanghai are getting food? And even those are only nominally getting food. For every account of the Shanghai lockdown that includes regular food delivery, there are 5 accounts showing that their food delivery has been a packet of noodles and some cooking oil, once every two weeks.
    - krageon 5y ago
      > a packet of noodles and some cooking oil, once every two weeks. Then everyone would be dead, so clearly this is not true.
      - spywaregorilla 5y ago
        Depends on the timeframe
      - routerl 5y ago
        Only if that's the only source of food. The point is, contrary to this article, government food deliveries are nowhere close to enough.
  - andi999 5y ago
    You mean people without shanghai hukou do not get food? That is around 9 million people? Do you have a source for that, this sounds a bit like black propaganda.
blagie 5y ago
As a point of reference, in the US, about 0.3% of the population has already died due to COVID. Many more are disabled or debilitated. I won't get into that debate over specific numbers -- it can be anywhere from astronomical numbers due to long COVID, or very moderate numbers from people who are hospitalized, don't die, but have significant lung scarring (for each person who dies, several are hospitalized, recover, but have significant permanent lung damage). Shanghai is just under 2% of China. China has had virtually no deaths. What's worse? * Having 2% of the population locked down to maintain COVID zero? * Or having 0.3% of your population die, and several times that disabled? That's a rhetorical question. The answer depends on your value system. Both answers are within the norms of cultural value systems around the world. Neither is unreasonable. It gets hard, in part, due to issues like differences in opinion on the importance of personal freedom versus collective good. Those go well beyond just the public health question. I don't think the value-judgement China has made is at all unreasonable. It's well within how cultures differ. I'm not saying it needs to agree with your values -- just that we ought to accept that different countries and governments have different value systems. This seems well within those norms, rather than grotesque human rights violations as the Western press paints it. Same thing bugs me reading Chinese press about the West. It should be possible to tolerate differences like this without contempt for the other side.
- dominotw 5y ago
  > China has had virtually no deaths. sure
- NicoJuicy 5y ago
  Besides the virtually no deaths. Distrust from the older, more vulnerable population, is pretty high.
- jokethrowaway 5y ago
  [flagged]
  - wbsss4412 5y ago
    > Governments are by definitions a violation of human rights. By a definition, sure. I don’t think they are by any standard definition.

42 points by RickJWagner 5y ago

tl;dr: They have to stay at home, but still get food. When they are sick they're taken to a hospital. People are angry because of the lack of agency, primarily. Or so the article claims :) It is a US publication, and they always have to be taken with a grain of salt when it comes to anything that isn't the US.

Georgelemental 5y ago
There are many stories about people dying in the waiting room because they had to wait for their covid test to come back negative before ERs in Shanghai were allowed to treat them.
Mattasher 5y ago
This is a funny way to frame mass indefinite home detention, filthy quarantine centers, and the many, many reports of people not having enough to eat, and deaths from lack of access to medical care. Did you know that only residents with official permission to be in Shanghai are getting food? What do you think is happening to everyone else?
- routerl 5y ago
  > Did you know that only residents with official permission to be in Shanghai are getting food? And even those are only nominally getting food. For every account of the Shanghai lockdown that includes regular food delivery, there are 5 accounts showing that their food delivery has been a packet of noodles and some cooking oil, once every two weeks.
  - krageon 5y ago
    > a packet of noodles and some cooking oil, once every two weeks. Then everyone would be dead, so clearly this is not true.
    - spywaregorilla 5y ago
      Depends on the timeframe
    - routerl 5y ago
      Only if that's the only source of food. The point is, contrary to this article, government food deliveries are nowhere close to enough.
- andi999 5y ago
  You mean people without shanghai hukou do not get food? That is around 9 million people? Do you have a source for that, this sounds a bit like black propaganda.

blagie 5y ago

As a point of reference, in the US, about 0.3% of the population has already died due to COVID. Many more are disabled or debilitated. I won't get into that debate over specific numbers -- it can be anywhere from astronomical numbers due to long COVID, or very moderate numbers from people who are hospitalized, don't die, but have significant lung scarring (for each person who dies, several are hospitalized, recover, but have significant permanent lung damage). Shanghai is just under 2% of China. China has had virtually no deaths. What's worse? * Having 2% of the population locked down to maintain COVID zero? * Or having 0.3% of your population die, and several times that disabled? That's a rhetorical question. The answer depends on your value system. Both answers are within the norms of cultural value systems around the world. Neither is unreasonable. It gets hard, in part, due to issues like differences in opinion on the importance of personal freedom versus collective good. Those go well beyond just the public health question. I don't think the value-judgement China has made is at all unreasonable. It's well within how cultures differ. I'm not saying it needs to agree with your values -- just that we ought to accept that different countries and governments have different value systems. This seems well within those norms, rather than grotesque human rights violations as the Western press paints it. Same thing bugs me reading Chinese press about the West. It should be possible to tolerate differences like this without contempt for the other side.

dominotw 5y ago
> China has had virtually no deaths. sure
NicoJuicy 5y ago
Besides the virtually no deaths. Distrust from the older, more vulnerable population, is pretty high.
jokethrowaway 5y ago
[flagged]
- wbsss4412 5y ago
  > Governments are by definitions a violation of human rights. By a definition, sure. I don’t think they are by any standard definition.