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Now what does that say about the geriatrics that seem to be running all major world powers right now?

paskozdilar 5y ago
I'm pretty convinced that they all get their daily dose of amphetamines or some kind of smart drugs from their physicians. I mean, Erdos did it and he was productive until his 70's.
belter 5y ago
This is only measuring mental speed, not: - Common sense - Life experience - Intelligence - Ability to listen to others - Curiosity - Empathy
- donthellbanme 5y ago
  And the most important asset; money.
  - blaeks 5y ago
    289. A man is only worth the sum of his possessions. you know your rules, Ferengi <3
    - belter 5y ago
      Ah Ferengi's. Lots of them in the Belt. 211 - Employees are the rungs on the ladder of success. Don't hesitate to step on them
- ClumsyPilot 5y ago
  And many of those degrade with age too, IQ peaks in your 20's, and I question life experience formed in the cold war, back when homosexuality was a crime and racism was common sence, houses were 2x annual income and top tax bracket was 70% If we have minimum age for participating in politics, there should be a maximum age. Set it at like 70% of life expectancy. Alternatovely, remove minimum age - I would rather have a 16 year old in parliament than a 90 year old, maybe some problems with schools will actually get addressed.
  - belter 5y ago
    > And many of those degrade with age too, IQ peaks in your 20's Maybe true, not sure, but outcomes surely do not correlate with age. "Scientists can publish their best work at any age" https://www.nature.com/articles/nature.2016.20926 https://www.nature.com/articles/nature.2016.20926
    - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
      I think thats the wrong measurement - in politics a crisis happens, and you must respond withing a set amount of time. So if older people take longer to come up with sensible solution, it could be too late
      - bregma 5y ago
        In politics it's almost always the old people who have to come up with a sensible solution to the rash and impetuous decisions made by their younger colleagues in a time of crisis.
        ClumsyPilot 5y ago
        What is the basis for this assertion? I believe the opposite is true - older politicians overhwlmingly cause a mess because they are stuck in their old ways Kennedy was 46 years old during Cuban missile crisis, he has shown restraint when many generals, significanlty older than him, advocated use of force and likely would cause a global nuclear war. Today young people overwhelmingly show the will to deal with climate change, and older generation overwhelmingly wants to continue to ignore it.
  - ZeroGravitas 5y ago
    IQ doesn't peak at any age, since its defined so that you can't really compare between people (or if you believe in such things “races“) with different (average) ages. I'm not sure why such a measurement would become the standard one for intelligence as it seems a bit useless by design.
  - 5y ago
- ihateolives 5y ago
  I'm usually not the one to think that older generation is a backwards bunch through and through but in case of many world leaders and decision makers I'll make an exception. > Common sense We're having a frigging climate crisis and still not acting on it. So - nope. > Life experience From different era where world was a bit different, slower paced and pretty much black and white with two genders, fossil fuels and without those pesky women, gays and other minorities raising their voices. > Ability to listen to others This would presuppose empathy. > Curiosity As on having open mind to new ways of doing things? Nope. > Empathy Straight out nope again. Much, if not most of world's problems are exactly because of the lack of empathy for our fellow man and disregard for the future i.e. their own children. Nope, empathy is nowhere to be seen. Geriatrics in power seem to make very slow and very wrong choices.
  - inglor_cz 5y ago
    "without those pesky women, gays and other minorities raising their voices." Consult the calendar. When Joe Biden was young, the Sixties were in full swing and the voices you mention were already pretty loud. They didn't have overwhelming results yet, but the path towards them was already being very visibly trod. What you describe was an even earlier world - and we do not have that many centenarians in positions of power. Queen Elizabeth is pretty much the only important head of state to be still surviving from that period.
    - Ensorceled 5y ago
      > Queen Elizabeth is pretty much the only important head of state to be still surviving from that period. Even then, the Quiet Generation built things; roads, schools, libraries, arenas and institutions that are being destroyed by under-funding and neglect.
    - oneoff786 5y ago
      Joe biden was pro segregation back in the day
  - fipar 5y ago
    Your first paragraph targets world leaders but then your comments seem a bit ageist to me when IMHO they apply to most people regardless of age: > We're having a frigging > climate crisis and still > not acting on it. So -nope. Last time I was at a tech conference (fortunately years ago) the bulk of the audience and speakers were people in their 30s or younger and a lot of them had traveled long distances to get there. A few were frequent conference speakers traveling several times per year, all in very climate-unfriendly airplanes. I see a lot of people under 30 who get expensive ICE cars as they progress in their careers, not to mention that if they have a good career in terms of revenue they’re most likely involved in something that negatively affects climate. I could go on. > From different era where > world was a bit different, slower paced and pretty much black and white with two genders, fossil fuels and without those pesky women, gays and other minorities raising their voices. Civil rights are surely not an invention of the current young generation. I’d argue that if we have a more vocal civil rights/social justice movement now it is thanks to all the people who are now over 70 or even dead and who were fighting that fight in more conservative times. This is also not something that’s uniformly distributed in the world or even in “civilized” places (sadly, I’d add), as I keep stumbling upon very young (decades younger than me) bigots far more frequently than I’d like (ok, to be honest, I’d like that frequency to be 0). > This would presuppose empathy. If all the young people you interact with are emphatic you’ve no idea how lucky you are. Suffice to say that school continues to be hell to a lot of weird kids right this very moment, that ain’t a problem that went away. That’s because most people are bigoted regardless of their age. If anything, I’ve seen a-holes become a bit less of that as they grow older. > Geriatrics in power seem to make very slow and very wrong choices I’ll take the role of unsolicited editor to your comment and suggest that you just say “People in power seem to make very slow and very wrong choices”, that would make it accurate.
- goodpoint 5y ago
  Is that sarcasm? "Ability to listen to others" and especially "Empathy" are the very opposite attributes of people "running all major world powers right now"
  - ben_w 5y ago
    While it certainly feels like that when you’re in a particular politician’s out-group, I think they literally could not even get to play on the national political stage without being really good at those behaviours. Even the worst politicians, those that I personally hate with vitriol, those whom I doubt even have a rich inner mental world, absolutely do demonstrate listening to the person in front of them. It may not be real empathy, just affectation, but the effect of the affect is the same on the support base they need in order to get elected, or in some cases even chosen as a candidate.
  - belter 5y ago
    It's not sarcasm, because my comment was not if the persons politically in charge of the major world powers, have those traits in the correct measure. I was pointing to the fact the paper is not measuring those traits, and they are certainly more important than mental speed. And even that, the paper says until 60 only decreases as older persons take more time to more carefully consider their decisions. OP seemed to be worried that as they are older, the paper would imply their mental ability was somewhat diminished or less capable, and I pointed to other traits very important, the paper does not analyze.
  - samus 5y ago
    They absolutely need those abilities. How else to judge who is safe to ally with, and for how long, and when your underlings start to rebel against you? Insult them however you want, but don't underestimate them. Or the powers behind their thrones!
    - goodpoint 5y ago
      What you described has little to do with empathy.
lordnacho 5y ago
You don't have to think fast to be a political leader. Plus you can delegate the thinking to subordinates.
- ozim 5y ago
  I think in any debate or discussion you have to be quite fast on thinking. When you have to think where to spend $20Mil or more you probably don't have to come up with stuff on the spot.
  - lordnacho 5y ago
    > I think in any debate or discussion you have to be quite fast on thinking. Not really. If you watch a debate show like Question Time, everything that's said is utterly predictable. Politicians have spent years trotting out the same arguments. Everything is a set piece because you know what the topic is, and you have ample time to prepare. It's actually like this in most debates, it's only thinking if you haven't been there before. If you are just smart and you run into a person with is properly prepared, you will get demolished by well tested arguments backed up with established facts. If you get really old and your memory goes then you'll have a problem, but most of the talking head types are not that old yet, and they just give a canned response.
- ClumsyPilot 5y ago
  What is this nonsence, if poltical leaders don't think then why do we have select comittees in parliament, why do we have debates experts lining up to give evidence to Members Of Praliament, why do we have zukerberk being called in for questioning? These are processes that make a democracy tick, if they don't think, id they can't follow whats happening, the system doesn't work
  - NhanH 5y ago
    > You don't have to think **fast** .... Seems like you skip a word in the GP's comment. Politicians has to think slowly, deliberately and (hopefully) correctly, which is to say that mental speed might not be the relevant factor at all.
amelius 5y ago
It's like the Peter principle. Not much we can do about it.
barry-cotter 5y ago
If you select for people who are 1 in a thousand on energy, need for sleep and extroversion you get very unusual people.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
mola 5y ago
That population isn't expected to be a representative of a random population sample...

I'm pretty convinced that they all get their daily dose of amphetamines or some kind of smart drugs from their physicians. I mean, Erdos did it and he was productive until his 70's.

belter 5y ago

This is only measuring mental speed, not: - Common sense - Life experience - Intelligence - Ability to listen to others - Curiosity - Empathy

donthellbanme 5y ago
And the most important asset; money.
- blaeks 5y ago
  289. A man is only worth the sum of his possessions. you know your rules, Ferengi <3
  - belter 5y ago
    Ah Ferengi's. Lots of them in the Belt. 211 - Employees are the rungs on the ladder of success. Don't hesitate to step on them
ClumsyPilot 5y ago
And many of those degrade with age too, IQ peaks in your 20's, and I question life experience formed in the cold war, back when homosexuality was a crime and racism was common sence, houses were 2x annual income and top tax bracket was 70% If we have minimum age for participating in politics, there should be a maximum age. Set it at like 70% of life expectancy. Alternatovely, remove minimum age - I would rather have a 16 year old in parliament than a 90 year old, maybe some problems with schools will actually get addressed.
- belter 5y ago
  > And many of those degrade with age too, IQ peaks in your 20's Maybe true, not sure, but outcomes surely do not correlate with age. "Scientists can publish their best work at any age" https://www.nature.com/articles/nature.2016.20926 https://www.nature.com/articles/nature.2016.20926
  - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
    I think thats the wrong measurement - in politics a crisis happens, and you must respond withing a set amount of time. So if older people take longer to come up with sensible solution, it could be too late
    - bregma 5y ago
      In politics it's almost always the old people who have to come up with a sensible solution to the rash and impetuous decisions made by their younger colleagues in a time of crisis.
      - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
        What is the basis for this assertion? I believe the opposite is true - older politicians overhwlmingly cause a mess because they are stuck in their old ways Kennedy was 46 years old during Cuban missile crisis, he has shown restraint when many generals, significanlty older than him, advocated use of force and likely would cause a global nuclear war. Today young people overwhelmingly show the will to deal with climate change, and older generation overwhelmingly wants to continue to ignore it.
- ZeroGravitas 5y ago
  IQ doesn't peak at any age, since its defined so that you can't really compare between people (or if you believe in such things “races“) with different (average) ages. I'm not sure why such a measurement would become the standard one for intelligence as it seems a bit useless by design.
- 5y ago
ihateolives 5y ago
I'm usually not the one to think that older generation is a backwards bunch through and through but in case of many world leaders and decision makers I'll make an exception. > Common sense We're having a frigging climate crisis and still not acting on it. So - nope. > Life experience From different era where world was a bit different, slower paced and pretty much black and white with two genders, fossil fuels and without those pesky women, gays and other minorities raising their voices. > Ability to listen to others This would presuppose empathy. > Curiosity As on having open mind to new ways of doing things? Nope. > Empathy Straight out nope again. Much, if not most of world's problems are exactly because of the lack of empathy for our fellow man and disregard for the future i.e. their own children. Nope, empathy is nowhere to be seen. Geriatrics in power seem to make very slow and very wrong choices.
- inglor_cz 5y ago
  "without those pesky women, gays and other minorities raising their voices." Consult the calendar. When Joe Biden was young, the Sixties were in full swing and the voices you mention were already pretty loud. They didn't have overwhelming results yet, but the path towards them was already being very visibly trod. What you describe was an even earlier world - and we do not have that many centenarians in positions of power. Queen Elizabeth is pretty much the only important head of state to be still surviving from that period.
  - Ensorceled 5y ago
    > Queen Elizabeth is pretty much the only important head of state to be still surviving from that period. Even then, the Quiet Generation built things; roads, schools, libraries, arenas and institutions that are being destroyed by under-funding and neglect.
  - oneoff786 5y ago
    Joe biden was pro segregation back in the day
- fipar 5y ago
  Your first paragraph targets world leaders but then your comments seem a bit ageist to me when IMHO they apply to most people regardless of age: > We're having a frigging > climate crisis and still > not acting on it. So -nope. Last time I was at a tech conference (fortunately years ago) the bulk of the audience and speakers were people in their 30s or younger and a lot of them had traveled long distances to get there. A few were frequent conference speakers traveling several times per year, all in very climate-unfriendly airplanes. I see a lot of people under 30 who get expensive ICE cars as they progress in their careers, not to mention that if they have a good career in terms of revenue they’re most likely involved in something that negatively affects climate. I could go on. > From different era where > world was a bit different, slower paced and pretty much black and white with two genders, fossil fuels and without those pesky women, gays and other minorities raising their voices. Civil rights are surely not an invention of the current young generation. I’d argue that if we have a more vocal civil rights/social justice movement now it is thanks to all the people who are now over 70 or even dead and who were fighting that fight in more conservative times. This is also not something that’s uniformly distributed in the world or even in “civilized” places (sadly, I’d add), as I keep stumbling upon very young (decades younger than me) bigots far more frequently than I’d like (ok, to be honest, I’d like that frequency to be 0). > This would presuppose empathy. If all the young people you interact with are emphatic you’ve no idea how lucky you are. Suffice to say that school continues to be hell to a lot of weird kids right this very moment, that ain’t a problem that went away. That’s because most people are bigoted regardless of their age. If anything, I’ve seen a-holes become a bit less of that as they grow older. > Geriatrics in power seem to make very slow and very wrong choices I’ll take the role of unsolicited editor to your comment and suggest that you just say “People in power seem to make very slow and very wrong choices”, that would make it accurate.
goodpoint 5y ago
Is that sarcasm? "Ability to listen to others" and especially "Empathy" are the very opposite attributes of people "running all major world powers right now"
- ben_w 5y ago
  While it certainly feels like that when you’re in a particular politician’s out-group, I think they literally could not even get to play on the national political stage without being really good at those behaviours. Even the worst politicians, those that I personally hate with vitriol, those whom I doubt even have a rich inner mental world, absolutely do demonstrate listening to the person in front of them. It may not be real empathy, just affectation, but the effect of the affect is the same on the support base they need in order to get elected, or in some cases even chosen as a candidate.
- belter 5y ago
  It's not sarcasm, because my comment was not if the persons politically in charge of the major world powers, have those traits in the correct measure. I was pointing to the fact the paper is not measuring those traits, and they are certainly more important than mental speed. And even that, the paper says until 60 only decreases as older persons take more time to more carefully consider their decisions. OP seemed to be worried that as they are older, the paper would imply their mental ability was somewhat diminished or less capable, and I pointed to other traits very important, the paper does not analyze.
- samus 5y ago
  They absolutely need those abilities. How else to judge who is safe to ally with, and for how long, and when your underlings start to rebel against you? Insult them however you want, but don't underestimate them. Or the powers behind their thrones!
  - goodpoint 5y ago
    What you described has little to do with empathy.

lordnacho 5y ago

You don't have to think fast to be a political leader. Plus you can delegate the thinking to subordinates.

ozim 5y ago
I think in any debate or discussion you have to be quite fast on thinking. When you have to think where to spend $20Mil or more you probably don't have to come up with stuff on the spot.
- lordnacho 5y ago
  > I think in any debate or discussion you have to be quite fast on thinking. Not really. If you watch a debate show like Question Time, everything that's said is utterly predictable. Politicians have spent years trotting out the same arguments. Everything is a set piece because you know what the topic is, and you have ample time to prepare. It's actually like this in most debates, it's only thinking if you haven't been there before. If you are just smart and you run into a person with is properly prepared, you will get demolished by well tested arguments backed up with established facts. If you get really old and your memory goes then you'll have a problem, but most of the talking head types are not that old yet, and they just give a canned response.
ClumsyPilot 5y ago
What is this nonsence, if poltical leaders don't think then why do we have select comittees in parliament, why do we have debates experts lining up to give evidence to Members Of Praliament, why do we have zukerberk being called in for questioning? These are processes that make a democracy tick, if they don't think, id they can't follow whats happening, the system doesn't work
- NhanH 5y ago
  > You don't have to think **fast** .... Seems like you skip a word in the GP's comment. Politicians has to think slowly, deliberately and (hopefully) correctly, which is to say that mental speed might not be the relevant factor at all.

amelius 5y ago

It's like the Peter principle. Not much we can do about it.

barry-cotter 5y ago

If you select for people who are 1 in a thousand on energy, need for sleep and extroversion you get very unusual people.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

mola 5y ago

That population isn't expected to be a representative of a random population sample...