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What a piss-poor excuse for an article! Reads like a press release; all puff and no down sides. Anyone with any familiarity with the V project will know it's b
by Normille 5y ago
What a piss-poor excuse for an article! Reads like a press release; all puff and no down sides.
Anyone with any familiarity with the V project will know it's been mired in controversy from day 1, thanks to the [often hyperbolic] claims of its inventor. All of which seems to have passed the author of this article by, as he just gushingly repeats them unquestioningly.
Mind you, he does describe V as "all new", so maybe he missed all that previous discussion.
- Micoloth 5y ago> thanks to the [often hyperbolic] claims of its inventor To be fair.. I always see this in HN comments about V, and at this point it sounds just as a non-objective and prejudiced evaluation as the article is. I agree that the article should have presented some downsides. But to start a discussion, how about presenting some valid criticisms? Clearly people have worked on this project for a while. Have they completely failed to implement the “hyperbolic” claims? Or are they doing something good? I’ve been intrigued about V for a while, i haven’t had the time to look into it yet. I wish we had an objective discussion about it..
- _andrei_ 5y agoThere's people that have what it takes to build something like V, and then there's the rest of us, that spend our time ranting online.
- coldtea 5y agoAnd there are also people who have built even harder projects than V, but can still criticize projects with issues and rant with the best of them! The absolute dichotomy being "doers" and "criticizers" is false. Linus could criticize things just fine.
- scns 5y agoHave seen Linus giving the finger to Nvidia, but not ranting on a forum about a new language.
- _andrei_ 5y agoDoers can of course criticize, but serious devs won't bash a new and unfinished language, just because the author of the project had the audacity to promise something "so unrealistic". Healthy people saw V, maybe read about it, saw the great promises, and thought "Ha, that sounds unlikely, but it's not a bad idea, it would be insane if this worked! Shoot for the stars, aim for the moon.". For others, the promises were outrageous and anything remotely close to them "impossible". I don't get why it got personal for some of us, and it's stupid how involved people were over the years (hey Xe, you're so skilled, why waste your energy) into bashing this random project.
- lf-non 5y agoQuite a bit of work has indeed gone into the language, and what has been accomplished is no mean feat, but the myriad open bugs [1] around core features of the compiler do not inspire confidence. It'd be better if the documentation reflected that the language was in an alpha state rather than touting stability guarantees etc. [1] https://github.com/vlang/v/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3ABug https://github.com/vlang/v/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+lab...
- amedvednikov 5y agoAll big projects have open GitHub issues. You just linked to 500 open and 3000 closed bugs in V. For example, Rust has 8000 open/35000 closed. Yet it's a very mature language. V is very stable for its age. The compiler can build itself since the release (it now has 220k lines of V!) and we have big projects like the Vinix OS written entirely in V, and it can already run GCC/g++ and Doom for example.
- lf-non 5y agoOk, I'll try it out once more. Last I tried it a simple program I wrote using the ui toolkit was crashing for some issue I couldn't quite figure out. Maybe things have substantially improved since.
- ruune 5y agoI had the same experience. Tried out V a couple of weeks ago because I needed a really simple GUI application. Compiling example code resulted in errors I couldn't understand nor google. I enjoyed playing around with V until that point, but went back to Go and built my stuff with some giant UI library into a 10mb binary that at least worked how it should. I like V though so I will try it out again sometime
- amedvednikov 5y agoThat's strange. All examples are compiled via CI on all systems.
- ylluminate 5y agoDelivering. Fantastic community and contributions. Love them.
- knackforthis 5y agoLol this right here. This is it. "all skepticism is equally valid". A crock of nonsense. One side has pointed out, repeatedly, how that statement is true. If you don't know better, that's on you. This whole "aww my subjectivity" completely ignores the wisdom of the crowd of "no, really, this is snake oil, can we fucking not". But as usual, people are looking to have an opinion spoonfed and are upset when it's not the narrative they wanted.
- ibraheemdev 5y agoThe article seems to have been written by: > a 15 year old student who likes to code and blog for some perspective :)
- throwaway4good 5y agoIt is a new generation: sales, hype and marketing first. We all could learn from this.
- WithinReason 5y agoI think we were all more susceptible to hype when we were 15
- The_rationalist 5y ago
- throwamon 5y agoMaybe, but I can tell you when I was 15 I didn't have instant worldwide reach and the on-the-Internet-nobody-knows-you're-a-dog effect at my disposal, and neither did my readers.
- throwaway4good 5y agoI grew up with if you build people will come. I don’t think it is like that anymore …
- amedvednikov 5y agoCan you list the hyperbolic claims here please?
- pxeger1 5y agoHere's an article from around the time, "V is for Vaporware": https://christine.website/blog/v-vaporware-2019-06-23 https://christine.website/blog/v-vaporware-2019-06-23 (and discussion of that on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20258485 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20258485) I imagine things have improved since 2019, though.
- amedvednikov 5y agoIt's a very biased and old list of articles from an author who openly claimed that "V should die". For example, the performance of V is measured on a debug build, without vlib cached, without vfmt disabled, with a 10x slower backend. Here's V compiling itself in 0.3 seconds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvP6wmcl_Sc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvP6wmcl_Sc Also complaining about not running on all Linux flavors on day 1. Right now V runs on literally everything. And so on. That's why I asked to list the specific claims the poster had in mind here in the comments.
- pwdisswordfish9 5y ago> an author who openly claimed that "V should die". Citation needed. Or is the source for that claim the same as that for V benchmarks?
- amedvednikov 5y agohttps://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27442724 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27442724 > I think it is something that should be ignored until it dies into obscurity
- Normille 5y agoWell, for a start there's the "Translating DOOM from C to V and building it in 0.7 seconds" which is still on your front page. In spite of being a 'WIP' for as long as I can remember. Then there's; vweb, vorum, volt and ved [all of which feature prominently on the front page too] which have been little more than alpha quality proofs of concept for a similarly long time. Don't get me wrong; I was actually interested in V when I first heard about it a few years back. And I was prepared for there to be a lot of 'WIP' since the language was so new. But I lost interest as the years passed and nothing more polished ever seemed to emerge. In fact the whole ethos of the V community seems to be to take the maxim "Move fast and break stuff" and stretch it to breaking point. Instead of anything actually being worked on, polished and finished, you just keep throwing out new headline grabbing 'projects' which, as per the examples above are barely functional and seem to be abandoned almost as soon as they are announced. One week it'll be a new game engine [naturally, because it's V, better, stronger faster than anything already out there], the next week a web framework [better, stronger, faster...etc], the week after that it'll be a new 3D engine [better, stronger, faster...] I even remember a while back someone[s] in the V community announced they were building an OS in V. [presumably better, stronger, faster than Linux, OSX, Windows, etc] That's why you get so much negative press. It's not because people want to hate V. A hell of a lot of people [especially in the HN demographic] were genuinely interested in the project. But the endless hyperbole just ends up making you sound like a snake oil salesman and your crowd loses interest and drifts away.
- sieste 5y agoHN is usually an incredibly welcoming and encouraging community. Any criticisms are honest, sometimes harsh and maybe on the overly sceptical side, but mostly decent and civilised ... Unless Vlang comes up. > What a piss-poor excuse for an article! The article is no different from many new-sexy-js-framework blog posts I see here, but these never get that amount of hate. Why is that?
- dmytrish 5y agoBecause nobody wants to deal with another PHP in the unlikely case V takes off.
- amedvednikov 5y agoIt's hard to find a language farther away from V than PHP.
- pwdisswordfish9 5y agoI dunno, the design philosophy seems ripped out of their (former, to their credit!) playbook. https://twitter.com/woketopus/status/1447150924846313475 https://twitter.com/woketopus/status/1447150924846313475
- amedvednikov 5y agoV's design is completely opposite.
- bvrmn 5y agoEarly PHP lack of any design is the same of V.
- amedvednikov 5y agoCan you explain what you mean by "lack of design in V"?
- ylluminate 5y agoYou'd probably enjoy this one better from a major magazine then: https://linuxformat.com/ https://linuxformat.com/ - see page 94 in the May 2022 volume. Screenshot of ToC: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/592106336838352923/963892293285339226/2022-04-13_1600482x.jpg https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/592106336838352923/96...