10 ms·

Self-calibrating USB Paper Tape Reader

137 points by _Microft 4y ago

mdb31 4y ago
Cool! Now I can finally get rid of some of the paper tapes holding my priceless PDP-11 BASIC programs. Not sure yet if I dare look at the results (not, mind you, because I think the reader may have failed, just that 11-year-old-me probably wasn't that great a coder as I assumed at the time...). My only reservation is that I'm apparently supposed to feed the tapes (at a leisurely maximum pace of 2.2 miles per hour) by hand, like some kind of animal...
- brirec 4y ago
  I can’t imagine it being very difficult to add a motor to pull it along!
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - oktwtf 4y ago
    One of those cordless drills comes to mind, possibly some handy-man's secret weapon as well. ;] (Duct-tape for the trigger)
jbullock35 4y ago
This looks like a good tool. Do we still have data of historical interest (for example, government records, or records from important companies) that exist only on paper tapes?
jonsen 4y ago
In its time they said the RC 2000 was the worlds fastest paper tape reader. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regnecentralen#Peripheral_business https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regnecentralen#Peripheral_bu...
- _paulc 4y ago
  The Colossus tape reader could read at c.5000 cps (with the tape running at 27mph [1]) - which is 2.5 x faster (and 20 years before). Worth seeing the replica Colossus at Bletchley if you get a chance. [1] https://www.flickr.com/photos/martintomes/8751941628 https://www.flickr.com/photos/martintomes/8751941628
AlbertCory 4y ago
Finally I can boot my PDP-8! (Don't write & ask me about it; that was a joke.)
louwrentius 4y ago
Next project, Self-calibrating USB Paper Tape Writer.
- jonsen 4y ago
  Turing Completeness.
amelius 4y ago
I want to see a post of someone putting together a DIY high speed (300MB/s+) LTO tape drive for less than say $500. I suspect the tape drive market is full of overpriced solutions and could use the disruption.
- dual_dingo 4y ago
  I guess that the mechanical part would be achievable by hobbyists, but that the signal aquitistion and processing for modern high capacity LTO drives is nearly as complex as with modern hard drives, which borders on magic :)
- awiesenhofer 4y ago
  Depends on how you mean it: Reading and writing LTO tapes to spec? Probably bordering on impossible. Using LTO tapes to store and retrieve data in any way? Maybe doable. Had me wondering if one could for example adapt one of the various data to VHS or DV projects and mod the drive to accept different tapes?
  - mmastrac 4y ago
    Example of one of these projects for those curious: http://linbacker.sourceforge.net/screenshots.html http://linbacker.sourceforge.net/screenshots.html
- mmastrac 4y ago
  Can you buy loose high density magnetic tape?
  - amelius 4y ago
    Yes, the tapes are not expensive. The drives are.
utopcell 4y ago
It would be fun to use something like this with tapes for music boxes.
- dalf 4y ago
  Some have created "printer" for tapes for music boxes: https://youtu.be/w7nJak1tcmA https://youtu.be/w7nJak1tcmA (Labels are in French but the video is mostly self explanatory).
  - ngcc_hk 4y ago
    Must have some machine for wave pattern punching as well. But not that small tape though.
- kube-system 4y ago
  But with the MIDI protocol encoded on it :)
_Microft 4y ago
I have always wanted to use PCBs as structural elements for something. They are readily available based on fiberglas and aluminium, can be easily designed to whatever shape one likes, are manufactured precisely, allow to have holes and cut-outs, metal layers (even if you do not actually want to create circuits you can still have a metal layer under the soldermask to greatly improve the look of the latter), soldermask (what the surface usually is covered with) can be chosen as one of a number of different colors and the surface can be printed on as well with usually white or black print (that's called 'silkscreen' if you are curious). They are also relatively cheap on top of that. (I dread to think what an aluminium plate with an irregular shape and some cut-outs might cost if one ordered it at a regular metal-working shop.)
- rkagerer 4y ago
  I like the way BLOCKCLOCK mini makes the PCB part of the aesthetics and structure of their product: https://blockclockmini.com/ https://blockclockmini.com/
- aaaaaaaaata 4y ago
  > (I dread to think what an aluminium plate with an irregular shape and some cut-outs might cost if one ordered it at a regular metal-working shop.) Coming from the other side of this fence, I dread to think what alloy an electronics supplier would end up sending me instead of the metal that I asked for, and what surprises that might bring me structurally/chemically.
  - R0b0t1 4y ago
    The materials used in PCB manufacture are normally specified exactly. Chemical compatibility still matters.
- IshKebab 4y ago
  Aluminium plate can be laser cut or water cut and if you're doing 2D stuff then it's simple enough that they can give you an online quote and there are some fairly cheap providers in China. Maybe not quite as cheap as OSHPark for very small parts, but you do get aluminium instead of fibreglass.
nzrf 4y ago
Remember my time in the us navy in the late 90s and 00’ using paper tape for a few things including loading crypto. I can’t exactly remember what also we used it for, but was strange to think of even then and often now wonder if paper tape still exists in navy. Plus side ii is pretty easy to destroy and also not impacted by any sort of emp if there was to be one. Tape reader here http://www.prc68.com/I/CryptoM.shtml#KOI-18 http://www.prc68.com/I/CryptoM.shtml#KOI-18 and with some other fun devices like kyk-13 Thanks for post now I’m wondering what the sister project is to write paper tape as easy to store my own crypto keys.
- smilespray 4y ago
  I did the same in the Norwegian navy!
1-6 4y ago
I’m trying to find a reason to use paper tapes today. Wouldn’t it be possible to take a video of the paper tape unreeling and calibrate to read the hole pattern?
- remram 4y ago
  Not with any sort of speed.
cbm-vic-20 4y ago
I have one of Oscar Vermeulen's PiDP-11 replicas, and the SimH simulator contained within has a virtual paper tape reader and punch. It would be pretty straightforward to hook up something like this as the reader. Punching tape, on the other hand, seems to be pretty much impossible in the modern age. 8-bit paper tape punches never come up for sale on eBay or any other vintage computer site I've seen. And I'm not sure how feasible it is to fabricate one with a 3D printer- the real punches are like sewing machines- with thousands of little parts with timing and cams and all. Has anyone seen a DIY paper tape punch?
BooneJS 4y ago
Back in college - a while ago - I made a project that played blackjack. I punched holes in a real deck and optosensors would detect light shining through the holes. 4 bits. This solution is significantly more elegant!
TomWhitwell 4y ago
Here’s a similar DIY project (at an earlier stage) with a motor drive https://www.instagram.com/p/CTF1_fyNLtz/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y= https://www.instagram.com/p/CTF1_fyNLtz/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

137 points by _Microft 4y ago

Cool! Now I can finally get rid of some of the paper tapes holding my priceless PDP-11 BASIC programs. Not sure yet if I dare look at the results (not, mind you, because I think the reader may have failed, just that 11-year-old-me probably wasn't that great a coder as I assumed at the time...). My only reservation is that I'm apparently supposed to feed the tapes (at a leisurely maximum pace of 2.2 miles per hour) by hand, like some kind of animal...

brirec 4y ago
I can’t imagine it being very difficult to add a motor to pull it along!
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- oktwtf 4y ago
  One of those cordless drills comes to mind, possibly some handy-man's secret weapon as well. ;] (Duct-tape for the trigger)

jbullock35 4y ago

This looks like a good tool. Do we still have data of historical interest (for example, government records, or records from important companies) that exist only on paper tapes?

jonsen 4y ago

In its time they said the RC 2000 was the worlds fastest paper tape reader. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regnecentralen#Peripheral_business https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regnecentralen#Peripheral_bu...

_paulc 4y ago
The Colossus tape reader could read at c.5000 cps (with the tape running at 27mph [1]) - which is 2.5 x faster (and 20 years before). Worth seeing the replica Colossus at Bletchley if you get a chance. [1] https://www.flickr.com/photos/martintomes/8751941628 https://www.flickr.com/photos/martintomes/8751941628

AlbertCory 4y ago

Finally I can boot my PDP-8! (Don't write & ask me about it; that was a joke.)

louwrentius 4y ago

Next project, Self-calibrating USB Paper Tape Writer.

jonsen 4y ago
Turing Completeness.

amelius 4y ago

I want to see a post of someone putting together a DIY high speed (300MB/s+) LTO tape drive for less than say $500. I suspect the tape drive market is full of overpriced solutions and could use the disruption.

dual_dingo 4y ago
I guess that the mechanical part would be achievable by hobbyists, but that the signal aquitistion and processing for modern high capacity LTO drives is nearly as complex as with modern hard drives, which borders on magic :)
awiesenhofer 4y ago
Depends on how you mean it: Reading and writing LTO tapes to spec? Probably bordering on impossible. Using LTO tapes to store and retrieve data in any way? Maybe doable. Had me wondering if one could for example adapt one of the various data to VHS or DV projects and mod the drive to accept different tapes?
- mmastrac 4y ago
  Example of one of these projects for those curious: http://linbacker.sourceforge.net/screenshots.html http://linbacker.sourceforge.net/screenshots.html
mmastrac 4y ago
Can you buy loose high density magnetic tape?
- amelius 4y ago
  Yes, the tapes are not expensive. The drives are.

utopcell 4y ago

It would be fun to use something like this with tapes for music boxes.

dalf 4y ago
Some have created "printer" for tapes for music boxes: https://youtu.be/w7nJak1tcmA https://youtu.be/w7nJak1tcmA (Labels are in French but the video is mostly self explanatory).
- ngcc_hk 4y ago
  Must have some machine for wave pattern punching as well. But not that small tape though.
kube-system 4y ago
But with the MIDI protocol encoded on it :)

_Microft 4y ago

I have always wanted to use PCBs as structural elements for something. They are readily available based on fiberglas and aluminium, can be easily designed to whatever shape one likes, are manufactured precisely, allow to have holes and cut-outs, metal layers (even if you do not actually want to create circuits you can still have a metal layer under the soldermask to greatly improve the look of the latter), soldermask (what the surface usually is covered with) can be chosen as one of a number of different colors and the surface can be printed on as well with usually white or black print (that's called 'silkscreen' if you are curious). They are also relatively cheap on top of that. (I dread to think what an aluminium plate with an irregular shape and some cut-outs might cost if one ordered it at a regular metal-working shop.)

rkagerer 4y ago
I like the way BLOCKCLOCK mini makes the PCB part of the aesthetics and structure of their product: https://blockclockmini.com/ https://blockclockmini.com/
aaaaaaaaata 4y ago
> (I dread to think what an aluminium plate with an irregular shape and some cut-outs might cost if one ordered it at a regular metal-working shop.) Coming from the other side of this fence, I dread to think what alloy an electronics supplier would end up sending me instead of the metal that I asked for, and what surprises that might bring me structurally/chemically.
- R0b0t1 4y ago
  The materials used in PCB manufacture are normally specified exactly. Chemical compatibility still matters.
IshKebab 4y ago
Aluminium plate can be laser cut or water cut and if you're doing 2D stuff then it's simple enough that they can give you an online quote and there are some fairly cheap providers in China. Maybe not quite as cheap as OSHPark for very small parts, but you do get aluminium instead of fibreglass.

nzrf 4y ago

Remember my time in the us navy in the late 90s and 00’ using paper tape for a few things including loading crypto. I can’t exactly remember what also we used it for, but was strange to think of even then and often now wonder if paper tape still exists in navy. Plus side ii is pretty easy to destroy and also not impacted by any sort of emp if there was to be one. Tape reader here http://www.prc68.com/I/CryptoM.shtml#KOI-18 http://www.prc68.com/I/CryptoM.shtml#KOI-18 and with some other fun devices like kyk-13 Thanks for post now I’m wondering what the sister project is to write paper tape as easy to store my own crypto keys.

smilespray 4y ago
I did the same in the Norwegian navy!

1-6 4y ago

I’m trying to find a reason to use paper tapes today. Wouldn’t it be possible to take a video of the paper tape unreeling and calibrate to read the hole pattern?

remram 4y ago
Not with any sort of speed.

cbm-vic-20 4y ago

I have one of Oscar Vermeulen's PiDP-11 replicas, and the SimH simulator contained within has a virtual paper tape reader and punch. It would be pretty straightforward to hook up something like this as the reader. Punching tape, on the other hand, seems to be pretty much impossible in the modern age. 8-bit paper tape punches never come up for sale on eBay or any other vintage computer site I've seen. And I'm not sure how feasible it is to fabricate one with a 3D printer- the real punches are like sewing machines- with thousands of little parts with timing and cams and all. Has anyone seen a DIY paper tape punch?

BooneJS 4y ago

Back in college - a while ago - I made a project that played blackjack. I punched holes in a real deck and optosensors would detect light shining through the holes. 4 bits. This solution is significantly more elegant!

TomWhitwell 4y ago

Here’s a similar DIY project (at an earlier stage) with a motor drive https://www.instagram.com/p/CTF1_fyNLtz/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y= https://www.instagram.com/p/CTF1_fyNLtz/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=