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Dude, your privileged is showing... I have yet to work for a company that buys me lunch, much less annual ski trips. Hell, coffee hasn't been provided at any o

Dude, your privileged is showing... I have yet to work for a company that buys me lunch, much less annual ski trips. Hell, coffee hasn't been provided at any of my jobs, I've always had to pitch into a coffee pool just to have it. That's not to even mention getting to go to conferences. If I wanted to attend a conference, it would be coming out of my wallet and vacation time. If you want me to collaborate, put it in on my schedule and pay me to do it. I'd say that most of these "spontaneous collision of people and ideas" happen during lunch. Guess what, that lunch which I am already paying for, is also unpaid time. Ever since I've been working from home, my lunch hour is mine. I get to unwind, read or watch tv, all while eating a healthy meal. Finally let's talk about things that would get me back in the office. Shorter days, I have to commute a total of 2 hours a day, so I want my day to be 2-3 hours shorter. An actual office, with a window, door, temperature control, and some kind of noise isolation. I don't like working in those open office bullpens where I get to listen to salesmen screaming on the phone or secretaries sharing the latest gossip. Start screening people for personal hygiene. I get so tired of having to work with a heavy smoker or someone who can't be bothered to shower before showing up to work.

noasaservice 5y ago
Indeed. "My gold-coated bon-bons are empty, the bottle of 20y scotch is half-full, and Im ONLY in a 5 star ski resort with my colleagues." Whereas I'm making 150k/yr in the midwest as 100% remote engineer, and livin every day to its fullest. I'm certainly getting no ski trips or otherwise. Most companies don't do that. I also don't look forward to working at a FAANG either. Way too much churn. And I frankly value stability as well. And the FAANGs aren't that at all. As much as the admins here want us to think in the most gracious way, I really think these are commissioned hit pieces against remote-work. Ive been tracking them, and its long-form articles like this that advocate in-person work where it doesn't need it.
- olliej 5y ago
  What? FAANGs are among the most stable in tech, Apple especially is notorious for lifers.
  - filoleg 5y ago
    Yep, Microsoft is in a similar boat. There is a reason for why Red West part of the main campus is often referred to as Red Vest. Even outside of that, about half of the people I used to work with at MSFT were lifers (7+ years easily, a good number of 10+, a few 15+). Not judgement whatsoever, it sounded like a win-win situation for all sides involved (them and the company). Most of them had kids, families, and the primary reason for staying was great life-work balance and stability. They weren't "delusional" or anything, they knew all the tradeoffs of being a lifer, and they've made an extremely reasonable decision to stay. Note: what I said doesn't seem to apply to most Azure teams, as I've heard some wild stories from people who switched either to or from Azure (i.e., they experienced how it is to work at both Azure and the rest of MSFT). Azure is intense.
  - philwelch 5y ago
    Amazon is probably an exception, and based on Netflix's stated attitude towards "adequate performance" I wouldn't necessarily expect stability there.
donatj 5y ago
Do you work in software? I have never heard of a software company not providing free coffee. The increased productivity completely outweigh the couple dollars for the hot bean water.
- ultra_nick 5y ago
  Dell doesn't
  - weej 5y ago
    My time at Dell immediately brought this to mind. No coffee offered other than overpriced you had to purchase from the cafeteria. I brought in my own espresso and coffee maker, and got chastised by facilities as a fire hazard. We weren't even allowed to put in the tiny kitchenette, which was a sink with plastic utensils in a couple of drawers. Ridiculous.
- joshmanders 5y ago
  Then you're not looking very far outside your own bubble, because as someone like OP who doesn't have the pleasure of working in top tech companies in silicon valley, I never had free coffee at any place I had to show up at. Heck, even being paid decently at those places was far fetch let alone all those perks.
  - cvhashim 5y ago
    You’re deep in the trenches if you’ve only worked in places that don’t even provide free coffee and teas.
    - joshmanders 5y ago
      No, I live in a place where the claim to technology fame is "We have an IBM support office here, we're a tech hub!" Heck the biggest thing tech wise to come out of my city is founder and former CEO of GitHub Tom Preston-Werner being from here.
david38 5y ago
It never happened for lunch for me. It happened while overhearing a discussion a few desks down during working hours. And please, lunch is hardly a privilege. You can make lunch for $3. It’s a benefit for the company masquerading as a benefit to you. Coffee is so cheap it’s almost free. I buy it at Costco for around $20. I don’t know exactly how many cups I get, but it’s so cheap it’s not even worth calculating.
- BlargMcLarg 5y ago
  You're not making the office sound any better with these "just do it yourself bro" arguments. They can do that at home. If they're not even trying to make the office a place people want to be at, then just stop. "Why do people want to stay WFH when we don't provide incentives for them to come to the office?" "Gee Bob I don't know."
waynesonfire 5y ago
-nuff said. you nailed it.
danielmarkbruce 5y ago
Hacker news was built by silicon valley tech people, has a lot of silicon valley tech people posting. The author doesn't need to write for every single possible constituency. Also, many other industries provide lunch etc - historically many mining and oil and gas companies provided food, housing, everything. Some still do. The author wrote in good faith. There are a lot of people at google who don't come from privileged backgrounds. They might have won an iq lottery or something, but someone working hard to get a job at a good company doesn't make them privileged. What's next? Elon is "privileged"?
- beauzero 5y ago
  Mines I have worked at in the US only provided meals when you were travelling. Although unlimited double brew and a plugin for every truck/car in the parking lot was provided. Can't speak for oil and gas.
  - danielmarkbruce 5y ago
    It could be geography dependent - some mines are in the middle of nowhere in places like Australia and Canada.
    - ACow_Adonis 5y ago
      on that, I've only ever worked at one company that provided free coffee (a large bank). And quite frankly, it being in Melbourne, Australia, only the absolutely desperate would touch it and not just go outside to cafes for meetings and buy their own at their own cost. I also did some work experience at tidbinbilla tracking station when I was younger, as well as the radio telescope array out near Narrabri. the NASA aligned tidbinbilla one had a company cafeteria, which at the time I put down to some American cultural import thing, because it seemed weird as hell to me. the Narrabri facility isn't exactly in the middle of the city either, and is the only place I've worked with a bus that came round to pick you up from the town each morning (I've heard some tech companies do this in Silicon Valley?) and even they expected you to make your own lunch (there wasn't really an option to go get food from a shop). on the upside, they did have a volleyball court, so swings and roundabouts...
Melatonic 5y ago
I agree on the open office plans (excuse to cram more people in a space) but a decent cube setup isnt all that bad (assuming decently high walls). Not sure how a company buying you lunch makes you privileged - mine does not but many bigger companies provide that as a perk and it is not super uncommon or something.
ravenstine 5y ago
> An actual office, with a window, door, temperature control, and some kind of noise isolation. Yeah, it would be nice to not feel like being back in kindergarten for a change. Do people even get their own cubes these days?
- creakingstairs 5y ago
  Nope. Hot desking is in vogue now so be prepared to hunt for a new seat once in a while.
mcguire 5y ago
According to his Linkedin link, Charlie graduated in 2012 and went straight to work for Google, where he worked for 7 years. My hypothesis is that essentially everyone he knows after graduating, he met at Google. Me, I've got friends and relatives. I've got stuff to do. For me, going to work does not equal hanging out with my buddies. Oh, here's another one: the last time I worked in the office, my cubicle was directly across the hall from apparently the only large, not-completely-booked-up meeting room at MSFC. At least once a week I was up closing the goddamn meeting room door.
zeptonaut22 5y ago
FWIW, I definitely don't deny that my privilege is showing. I no longer work at Google, but whether I want to go into the office is probably heavily influenced by the fact that I have a ~15 minute door to door bike commute through a nice town (Ann Arbor) to my nice coworking space. I think that the scary part to me about the idea of all jobs going remote is that "going remote" seems an antidote to: - Bad office designs (no privacy, poor light, etc.) - Bad urban planning (long commutes, poor transportation options) - Bad coworkers Of those three, only the "bad coworkers" one seems inevitable that some people will have to deal with. (After all, those people need to work somewhere.) If I had to commute two hours a day to work in an office with no privacy, my opinion on this would surely be different. One of the people on my team at Google lived in Oakland and commuted to Mountain View every day: that sounded awful. But we also don't have to design offices to offer no privacy and we know how to design better cities that don't offer horrific commutes.
- joshmanders 5y ago
  You're thinking purely in the context of everyone living where these jobs physically exist. Tell me what part of remote working is an antidote to me living in Dubuque, Iowa where relocation is not a possibility... Do I just not work in tech?
  - denhaus 5y ago
    Wow a fellow Dubuquer on HN? Howdy.
    - joshmanders 5y ago
      Well hello there! You still a resident or former? I'm surprised to see a anyone in a 60 mile radius of Dubuque on HN lol.
      - denhaus 4y ago
        Family lives there, I go visit couple times a year now :)
908B64B197 5y ago
> Dude, your privileged is showing... It’s not really a privilege. Google (especially the Chrome team) is extremely high impact work. Think of all the revenues funneled into search thanks to it. It’s deep, fundamental tech at a tech company and a core part of the strategy. > I have yet to work for a company that buys me lunch, much less annual ski trips. Hell, coffee hasn't been provided at any of my jobs, I've always had to pitch into a coffee pool just to have it. That's not to even mention getting to go to conferences. If I wanted to attend a conference, it would be coming out of my wallet and vacation time. That’s a series of red flags. Why did you even go work there in the first place? Are the founders unable to raise anything? > Guess what, that lunch which I am already paying for, is also unpaid time. Ever since I've been working from home, my lunch hour is mine. I get to unwind, read or watch tv, all while eating a healthy meal. Are you in consulting? Only place I heard of with billable hours. If it’s a regular company with FTE, with a mentality like that regarding collaboration it sounds like they sure aren’t a threat to anyone in SV.

noasaservice 5y ago

Indeed. "My gold-coated bon-bons are empty, the bottle of 20y scotch is half-full, and Im ONLY in a 5 star ski resort with my colleagues." Whereas I'm making 150k/yr in the midwest as 100% remote engineer, and livin every day to its fullest. I'm certainly getting no ski trips or otherwise. Most companies don't do that. I also don't look forward to working at a FAANG either. Way too much churn. And I frankly value stability as well. And the FAANGs aren't that at all. As much as the admins here want us to think in the most gracious way, I really think these are commissioned hit pieces against remote-work. Ive been tracking them, and its long-form articles like this that advocate in-person work where it doesn't need it.

olliej 5y ago
What? FAANGs are among the most stable in tech, Apple especially is notorious for lifers.
- filoleg 5y ago
  Yep, Microsoft is in a similar boat. There is a reason for why Red West part of the main campus is often referred to as Red Vest. Even outside of that, about half of the people I used to work with at MSFT were lifers (7+ years easily, a good number of 10+, a few 15+). Not judgement whatsoever, it sounded like a win-win situation for all sides involved (them and the company). Most of them had kids, families, and the primary reason for staying was great life-work balance and stability. They weren't "delusional" or anything, they knew all the tradeoffs of being a lifer, and they've made an extremely reasonable decision to stay. Note: what I said doesn't seem to apply to most Azure teams, as I've heard some wild stories from people who switched either to or from Azure (i.e., they experienced how it is to work at both Azure and the rest of MSFT). Azure is intense.
- philwelch 5y ago
  Amazon is probably an exception, and based on Netflix's stated attitude towards "adequate performance" I wouldn't necessarily expect stability there.

donatj 5y ago

Do you work in software? I have never heard of a software company not providing free coffee. The increased productivity completely outweigh the couple dollars for the hot bean water.

ultra_nick 5y ago
Dell doesn't
- weej 5y ago
  My time at Dell immediately brought this to mind. No coffee offered other than overpriced you had to purchase from the cafeteria. I brought in my own espresso and coffee maker, and got chastised by facilities as a fire hazard. We weren't even allowed to put in the tiny kitchenette, which was a sink with plastic utensils in a couple of drawers. Ridiculous.
joshmanders 5y ago
Then you're not looking very far outside your own bubble, because as someone like OP who doesn't have the pleasure of working in top tech companies in silicon valley, I never had free coffee at any place I had to show up at. Heck, even being paid decently at those places was far fetch let alone all those perks.
- cvhashim 5y ago
  You’re deep in the trenches if you’ve only worked in places that don’t even provide free coffee and teas.
  - joshmanders 5y ago
    No, I live in a place where the claim to technology fame is "We have an IBM support office here, we're a tech hub!" Heck the biggest thing tech wise to come out of my city is founder and former CEO of GitHub Tom Preston-Werner being from here.

david38 5y ago

It never happened for lunch for me. It happened while overhearing a discussion a few desks down during working hours. And please, lunch is hardly a privilege. You can make lunch for $3. It’s a benefit for the company masquerading as a benefit to you. Coffee is so cheap it’s almost free. I buy it at Costco for around $20. I don’t know exactly how many cups I get, but it’s so cheap it’s not even worth calculating.

BlargMcLarg 5y ago
You're not making the office sound any better with these "just do it yourself bro" arguments. They can do that at home. If they're not even trying to make the office a place people want to be at, then just stop. "Why do people want to stay WFH when we don't provide incentives for them to come to the office?" "Gee Bob I don't know."

waynesonfire 5y ago

-nuff said. you nailed it.

danielmarkbruce 5y ago

Hacker news was built by silicon valley tech people, has a lot of silicon valley tech people posting. The author doesn't need to write for every single possible constituency. Also, many other industries provide lunch etc - historically many mining and oil and gas companies provided food, housing, everything. Some still do. The author wrote in good faith. There are a lot of people at google who don't come from privileged backgrounds. They might have won an iq lottery or something, but someone working hard to get a job at a good company doesn't make them privileged. What's next? Elon is "privileged"?

beauzero 5y ago
Mines I have worked at in the US only provided meals when you were travelling. Although unlimited double brew and a plugin for every truck/car in the parking lot was provided. Can't speak for oil and gas.
- danielmarkbruce 5y ago
  It could be geography dependent - some mines are in the middle of nowhere in places like Australia and Canada.
  - ACow_Adonis 5y ago
    on that, I've only ever worked at one company that provided free coffee (a large bank). And quite frankly, it being in Melbourne, Australia, only the absolutely desperate would touch it and not just go outside to cafes for meetings and buy their own at their own cost. I also did some work experience at tidbinbilla tracking station when I was younger, as well as the radio telescope array out near Narrabri. the NASA aligned tidbinbilla one had a company cafeteria, which at the time I put down to some American cultural import thing, because it seemed weird as hell to me. the Narrabri facility isn't exactly in the middle of the city either, and is the only place I've worked with a bus that came round to pick you up from the town each morning (I've heard some tech companies do this in Silicon Valley?) and even they expected you to make your own lunch (there wasn't really an option to go get food from a shop). on the upside, they did have a volleyball court, so swings and roundabouts...

Melatonic 5y ago

I agree on the open office plans (excuse to cram more people in a space) but a decent cube setup isnt all that bad (assuming decently high walls). Not sure how a company buying you lunch makes you privileged - mine does not but many bigger companies provide that as a perk and it is not super uncommon or something.

ravenstine 5y ago

> An actual office, with a window, door, temperature control, and some kind of noise isolation. Yeah, it would be nice to not feel like being back in kindergarten for a change. Do people even get their own cubes these days?

creakingstairs 5y ago
Nope. Hot desking is in vogue now so be prepared to hunt for a new seat once in a while.

mcguire 5y ago

According to his Linkedin link, Charlie graduated in 2012 and went straight to work for Google, where he worked for 7 years. My hypothesis is that essentially everyone he knows after graduating, he met at Google. Me, I've got friends and relatives. I've got stuff to do. For me, going to work does not equal hanging out with my buddies. Oh, here's another one: the last time I worked in the office, my cubicle was directly across the hall from apparently the only large, not-completely-booked-up meeting room at MSFC. At least once a week I was up closing the goddamn meeting room door.

zeptonaut22 5y ago

FWIW, I definitely don't deny that my privilege is showing. I no longer work at Google, but whether I want to go into the office is probably heavily influenced by the fact that I have a ~15 minute door to door bike commute through a nice town (Ann Arbor) to my nice coworking space. I think that the scary part to me about the idea of all jobs going remote is that "going remote" seems an antidote to: - Bad office designs (no privacy, poor light, etc.) - Bad urban planning (long commutes, poor transportation options) - Bad coworkers Of those three, only the "bad coworkers" one seems inevitable that some people will have to deal with. (After all, those people need to work somewhere.) If I had to commute two hours a day to work in an office with no privacy, my opinion on this would surely be different. One of the people on my team at Google lived in Oakland and commuted to Mountain View every day: that sounded awful. But we also don't have to design offices to offer no privacy and we know how to design better cities that don't offer horrific commutes.

joshmanders 5y ago
You're thinking purely in the context of everyone living where these jobs physically exist. Tell me what part of remote working is an antidote to me living in Dubuque, Iowa where relocation is not a possibility... Do I just not work in tech?
- denhaus 5y ago
  Wow a fellow Dubuquer on HN? Howdy.
  - joshmanders 5y ago
    Well hello there! You still a resident or former? I'm surprised to see a anyone in a 60 mile radius of Dubuque on HN lol.
    - denhaus 4y ago
      Family lives there, I go visit couple times a year now :)

908B64B197 5y ago

> Dude, your privileged is showing... It’s not really a privilege. Google (especially the Chrome team) is extremely high impact work. Think of all the revenues funneled into search thanks to it. It’s deep, fundamental tech at a tech company and a core part of the strategy. > I have yet to work for a company that buys me lunch, much less annual ski trips. Hell, coffee hasn't been provided at any of my jobs, I've always had to pitch into a coffee pool just to have it. That's not to even mention getting to go to conferences. If I wanted to attend a conference, it would be coming out of my wallet and vacation time. That’s a series of red flags. Why did you even go work there in the first place? Are the founders unable to raise anything? > Guess what, that lunch which I am already paying for, is also unpaid time. Ever since I've been working from home, my lunch hour is mine. I get to unwind, read or watch tv, all while eating a healthy meal. Are you in consulting? Only place I heard of with billable hours. If it’s a regular company with FTE, with a mentality like that regarding collaboration it sounds like they sure aren’t a threat to anyone in SV.