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>You have to be one special piece of shit to destroy such legacy This isn't the cause by the actions of a single piece of shit (Putin) but the consequences of

>You have to be one special piece of shit to destroy such legacy This isn't the cause by the actions of a single piece of shit (Putin) but the consequences of unchecked sistemic corruption that spans for decades across the entire government apparatus. I laughed out loud when I saw pictures of the ERA plates on Russian tanks were actually filled with cardboard because what should have been the Russian army modernization, is now parked in the biggest most luxurious yachts in the world and in the most desirable real estate in Europe and North America. So, as a European who's country had been under forced Russian occupation, and the puppet communist regime there caused scars that will still last for decades, I'm chuck full of joy to see Russia's army being crippled from inside by it's own corrupt system and the greed of it's own leaders. 10/10 I already have my apartment at 20C and can probably tolerate a bit lower if it means starving the Russian army and saving Ukrainian lives. Still, I expected the Russian government propaganda to spin this news into something like "Heroic Moskva cruiser managed to successfully destroy two enemy Neptune missiles with its hull, causing it to be promoted to the rank of submarine ".

topspin 5y ago
> unchecked sistemic[sic] corruption that spans for decades across the entire government apparatus Centuries, really. The inveterate kleptocracy that is Russia goes back further than the Soviets. The only real crime that exists for the Russian elite is stealing more than allowed. That was true for the Boyars, the Nomenklatura and it remains true for the oligarchy.
- throw_5202 5y ago
  There was some corruption in Soviet Union (like in most countries around the world with the exception of economically developed or/and democratic countries) but it was not fatal. Corruption in modern Russia is unique to Putin's regime - he used it (and still uses) as a tool to concentrate power - he puts in position of power only corrupt officials as a mean to get full loyalty - officials not loyal enough can be easily blackmailed, secret services have enough "kompromat" to put any government official into jail but are waiting for a signal from above. Corruption is the foundation for what in Russia called the "vertical of power", which essentially means that a person in a power structure have almost unlimited (limited only by Putin, but not by the law) power over people below. Looks like this tool has spun out of control.
  - topspin 5y ago
    > There was some corruption in Soviet Union ... but if[sic] was not fatal It was actually fatal. I've studied the corruption that emerged under the Soviets; it was systemic and, in fact, necessary to mitigate the crippling adversities created by Soviet ideology. It is the primary reason the Soviet Union collapsed 30 years ago.
    - throw_5202 5y ago
      I was born in the Soviet Union, read book about Soviet economy and political system (albeit not scientific ones) and have a different take. Corruption is a broad term and one can probably say it was a contribution factor, but may take is that inefficiency of economy and misguided foreign policy (including Afghanistan invasion) were the fatal flaws. When selecting who to delegate power to, all soviet leaders selected people who are loyal to them and suitable for the job. Loyalty was more important than competence so government was full of incompetent people, but competence was not a disqualifying factor so some of them was able to do the job. In Putin's power structure people who not steal and cannot be easily blackmailed are not promoted high enough. Being not corrupt _is_ a disqualifying factor. Putin at least in the beginning of his career maintained visibility of a country with the rule of law, so instead jailing opponents on a whim he jailed them for breaking the law, but the law was enforced selectively only for ones who are not fully loyal. As a result in modern Russia personal enrichment is a much bigger problem that it was in Soviet Union. Soviet nomenklatura [1] was rich compare to poor population but their quality of life was not much better than for upper-middle class in the US. The same nor the case for modern Russia. Failure of soviet economy as I know was not result of corruption - much more resources were wasted than stolen. Unfortunately I cannot provide any sources here - all I read was in Russian and I cannot find translations to English. I've seen this inefficiency myself in form of many thousands tons of trees which were cut so harvesting organization would meet KPI for amount of harvested wood but left to rot in the forest because an organization which should transport the wood had not enough capacity to do this (but likely transported all volume on paper, which you may say is corruption, but resources were wasted, not stolen). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomenklatura https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomenklatura
  - 5y ago
- jotm 5y ago
  If only they realized that if the whole population is richer, their "allowed" portion can go sky high :D
rlt 5y ago
I would also take glee in this, were it not for the substantial (presumably at least partially functional) nuclear arsenal held by this dog being backed into a corner…
- andrewflnr 5y ago
  I do entertain a faint hope that the rot has also infected Russia's nuclear arsenal, rendering some noticeable fraction of it inoperable or otherwise inert, but not enough to act on it.
  - CamperBob2 5y ago
    From the perspective of a Strategic Rocket Forces commander, what's the upside to actually using the maintenance budget for maintenance? None. It's free money for the taking. If the US starts WWIII, nobody will be left alive in Russia to care. If Russia starts WWIII, likewise, and it's better if the warheads don't work anyway. Meanwhile, that dacha on the Black Sea coast isn't going to pay for itself, nor is the boat that comes with it.
    - andrewflnr 5y ago
      Yeah, but even if 10% of the warheads go off vaguely on target, it's still really bad.
winrid 5y ago
20C is what most Americans set their heaters to AFAIK (68F). Glad to know we're sticking it to the Russians... :)
- mechanical_bear 5y ago
  Mine is set to 67f. Put on a sweater, it’s fine.
  - aww_dang 5y ago
    "Go outside and split some wood, you'll feel warm when you come back in"
    - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
      I've seen this in the military during the winter where a conscript complained he was cold so the drill instructor had him strip to his bare ass and stay like that for 2 minutes then asked: "Are you cold now?" "Yes sir!" "Now get dressed!", "Are you still cold?" "No sir!"
  - kwhitefoot 5y ago
    I don't even have central heating in my house (in Norway), it is almost never as warm as 20°C in the winter and I manage fine.
- Symbiote 5y ago
  A lot of British people set theirs to around 18°C. It took me years to get used to the heat indoors when I moved to Scandinavia.
bmitc 5y ago
> because what should have been the Russian army modernization, is now parked in the biggest most luxurious yachts in the world and in the most desirable real estate in Europe and North America. What worries me is that this is happening in the U.S. as well.
- ChuckNorris89 5y ago
  In what way? Is the US brass stealing money from the military?
  - throw_5202 5y ago
    Not stealing directly but US military industrial complex is a huge money sink which delivers much much less than civilian counterparts for the same money. F-35 story is a shame IMHO.
    - nradov 5y ago
      The problems on the Joint Strike Fighter program were caused more by flawed analysis of costs and military requirements than by outright corruption. Very little funding was stolen, and not many individuals have gotten personally wealthy from the program. Lockheed-Martin is now delivering an F-35 Block 4 product that, despite a few remaining minor flaws, substantially meets the customers' requirements. It's just that what the customers thought they wanted back in 1996 no longer aligns with what they actually need today.
    - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
      Corruption is a big issues in the west but compared to what's happening in Russia and ex-USSR countries, it's not even in the same ballpark, hell, it's not even in the same planet. In the west we have free press looking into it and exposing the theft, plus, the theft in the west has very complex schemes to make it look legit on the surface and to make sure nothing sticks to our Teflon politicians, but in Russia they don't need to worry about any red tape BS, they can just shove their hands in the public purse and take as much as they want and go directly to the Lamborghini dealership or the casino without any accountability, and if any reporter looks too deeply into their theft, they get death threats or even death through very suspicious circumstances. It's orders if magnitude worse.
243423443 5y ago
Do you have a source for the cardboard ERA plates? I only found the following, but apparently there is supposed to be cardboard in between the layers: https://www.reddit.com/r/TankPorn/comments/t73p1e/what_found_inside_the_era_on_russian_tanks_in/ https://www.reddit.com/r/TankPorn/comments/t73p1e/what_found...
- dralley 5y ago
  You can clearly see in the pictures though that there are no plates on the outside.
- ChuckNorris89 5y ago
  I don't, but if the link you posted is the truth then I could have been mistaken.
henrikschroder 5y ago
It's become clear to me that a lot of us who grew up during the cold war, kept thinking that Russia was still as much of a threat as the Soviet Union was, which is why so many of us are surprised at this turn of events. But the Soviet Union fell thirty years ago, an entire generation ago. The Soviet Union had 280 million people, more than the US had at the time. Big. Scary. But Russia today has only 140 million people. Over half the population just up and left when given the chance. They said "thanks, but no thanks" to Moscow. Sure, Russia still has a big military budget, but their GDP isn't that great. Their GDP is much smaller than Italy's, alone. Smaller than France's, alone. Smaller than Germany's, alone. Hell, even the five Nordic countries have a higher combined GDP than Russia has. Growing up in the Nordics during the cold war meant having to think about Russia as an enormous big bad who could crush us completely if they wanted to. But now, our combined economies are larger. Russia is corrupt, and has been corrupt for an entire generation. And it's been corrupt on a scale that is unprecedented compared to itself in the past, and compared to the rest of Europe. We complain about the military-industrial complex and how much waste there is, but military contractors in the west actually deliver stuff, whereas all the corrupted half-assery of the Russian military is being exposed now. The combined defence budget of the EU is about 4 times larger than Russia's. Since the end of the cold war, the EU has been prosperous, peaceful, and happy. We've invested in our defence and grown stronger over the last thirty years, while Russia has declined. We in the EU have over three times the population, over four times the military budget, and ten times the GDP of Russia. We have nukes and tanks and aircraft carriers and submarines and stealth fighters of our own. And yet so many still view Russia as a threat, as a bigger and stronger foe. This debacle sure has been eye-opening to me, and I hope it's been that way for everyone else stuck in the cold-war mentality.
- ChuckNorris89 5y ago
  >The combined defence budget of the EU is about 4 times larger than Russia's. Since the end of the cold war, the EU has been prosperous, peaceful, and happy. We've invested in our defence and grown stronger over the last thirty years, while Russia has declined. Simple. The EU is not military united but it's pretty much a "every man for himself" kind of thing outside of NATO or a direct attack, but the EU or NATO is currently not under attack so some people see Ukraine as "more of you problem than a me problem"… so other than sending some aid to Ukraine most people don't want to go to war with Russia or suffer crippling energy shortages for Ukraine. EU leaders are also not immune from kleptocratic greed and external and internal corruption. Austria is more than happy to keep pumping money into Russia in exchange for cheap gas, as that gas runs 80% of their industry, and several elite Austrian politicians were given top jobs on boards of Russian oil and gas companies to lobby for them and against nuclear or other alternatives, or have straight up offered their support to Russian oligarchs in under-the-table business deals ( the infamous "Ibiza scandal"). Good luck replacing that gas on a whim after several decades of Russian lobbying that lead to the current status quo.

topspin 5y ago

> unchecked sistemic[sic] corruption that spans for decades across the entire government apparatus Centuries, really. The inveterate kleptocracy that is Russia goes back further than the Soviets. The only real crime that exists for the Russian elite is stealing more than allowed. That was true for the Boyars, the Nomenklatura and it remains true for the oligarchy.

throw_5202 5y ago
There was some corruption in Soviet Union (like in most countries around the world with the exception of economically developed or/and democratic countries) but it was not fatal. Corruption in modern Russia is unique to Putin's regime - he used it (and still uses) as a tool to concentrate power - he puts in position of power only corrupt officials as a mean to get full loyalty - officials not loyal enough can be easily blackmailed, secret services have enough "kompromat" to put any government official into jail but are waiting for a signal from above. Corruption is the foundation for what in Russia called the "vertical of power", which essentially means that a person in a power structure have almost unlimited (limited only by Putin, but not by the law) power over people below. Looks like this tool has spun out of control.
- topspin 5y ago
  > There was some corruption in Soviet Union ... but if[sic] was not fatal It was actually fatal. I've studied the corruption that emerged under the Soviets; it was systemic and, in fact, necessary to mitigate the crippling adversities created by Soviet ideology. It is the primary reason the Soviet Union collapsed 30 years ago.
  - throw_5202 5y ago
    I was born in the Soviet Union, read book about Soviet economy and political system (albeit not scientific ones) and have a different take. Corruption is a broad term and one can probably say it was a contribution factor, but may take is that inefficiency of economy and misguided foreign policy (including Afghanistan invasion) were the fatal flaws. When selecting who to delegate power to, all soviet leaders selected people who are loyal to them and suitable for the job. Loyalty was more important than competence so government was full of incompetent people, but competence was not a disqualifying factor so some of them was able to do the job. In Putin's power structure people who not steal and cannot be easily blackmailed are not promoted high enough. Being not corrupt _is_ a disqualifying factor. Putin at least in the beginning of his career maintained visibility of a country with the rule of law, so instead jailing opponents on a whim he jailed them for breaking the law, but the law was enforced selectively only for ones who are not fully loyal. As a result in modern Russia personal enrichment is a much bigger problem that it was in Soviet Union. Soviet nomenklatura [1] was rich compare to poor population but their quality of life was not much better than for upper-middle class in the US. The same nor the case for modern Russia. Failure of soviet economy as I know was not result of corruption - much more resources were wasted than stolen. Unfortunately I cannot provide any sources here - all I read was in Russian and I cannot find translations to English. I've seen this inefficiency myself in form of many thousands tons of trees which were cut so harvesting organization would meet KPI for amount of harvested wood but left to rot in the forest because an organization which should transport the wood had not enough capacity to do this (but likely transported all volume on paper, which you may say is corruption, but resources were wasted, not stolen). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomenklatura https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomenklatura
- 5y ago
jotm 5y ago
If only they realized that if the whole population is richer, their "allowed" portion can go sky high :D

rlt 5y ago

I would also take glee in this, were it not for the substantial (presumably at least partially functional) nuclear arsenal held by this dog being backed into a corner…

andrewflnr 5y ago
I do entertain a faint hope that the rot has also infected Russia's nuclear arsenal, rendering some noticeable fraction of it inoperable or otherwise inert, but not enough to act on it.
- CamperBob2 5y ago
  From the perspective of a Strategic Rocket Forces commander, what's the upside to actually using the maintenance budget for maintenance? None. It's free money for the taking. If the US starts WWIII, nobody will be left alive in Russia to care. If Russia starts WWIII, likewise, and it's better if the warheads don't work anyway. Meanwhile, that dacha on the Black Sea coast isn't going to pay for itself, nor is the boat that comes with it.
  - andrewflnr 5y ago
    Yeah, but even if 10% of the warheads go off vaguely on target, it's still really bad.

winrid 5y ago

20C is what most Americans set their heaters to AFAIK (68F). Glad to know we're sticking it to the Russians... :)

mechanical_bear 5y ago
Mine is set to 67f. Put on a sweater, it’s fine.
- aww_dang 5y ago
  "Go outside and split some wood, you'll feel warm when you come back in"
  - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
    I've seen this in the military during the winter where a conscript complained he was cold so the drill instructor had him strip to his bare ass and stay like that for 2 minutes then asked: "Are you cold now?" "Yes sir!" "Now get dressed!", "Are you still cold?" "No sir!"
- kwhitefoot 5y ago
  I don't even have central heating in my house (in Norway), it is almost never as warm as 20°C in the winter and I manage fine.
Symbiote 5y ago
A lot of British people set theirs to around 18°C. It took me years to get used to the heat indoors when I moved to Scandinavia.

bmitc 5y ago

> because what should have been the Russian army modernization, is now parked in the biggest most luxurious yachts in the world and in the most desirable real estate in Europe and North America. What worries me is that this is happening in the U.S. as well.

ChuckNorris89 5y ago
In what way? Is the US brass stealing money from the military?
- throw_5202 5y ago
  Not stealing directly but US military industrial complex is a huge money sink which delivers much much less than civilian counterparts for the same money. F-35 story is a shame IMHO.
  - nradov 5y ago
    The problems on the Joint Strike Fighter program were caused more by flawed analysis of costs and military requirements than by outright corruption. Very little funding was stolen, and not many individuals have gotten personally wealthy from the program. Lockheed-Martin is now delivering an F-35 Block 4 product that, despite a few remaining minor flaws, substantially meets the customers' requirements. It's just that what the customers thought they wanted back in 1996 no longer aligns with what they actually need today.
  - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
    Corruption is a big issues in the west but compared to what's happening in Russia and ex-USSR countries, it's not even in the same ballpark, hell, it's not even in the same planet. In the west we have free press looking into it and exposing the theft, plus, the theft in the west has very complex schemes to make it look legit on the surface and to make sure nothing sticks to our Teflon politicians, but in Russia they don't need to worry about any red tape BS, they can just shove their hands in the public purse and take as much as they want and go directly to the Lamborghini dealership or the casino without any accountability, and if any reporter looks too deeply into their theft, they get death threats or even death through very suspicious circumstances. It's orders if magnitude worse.

243423443 5y ago

Do you have a source for the cardboard ERA plates? I only found the following, but apparently there is supposed to be cardboard in between the layers: https://www.reddit.com/r/TankPorn/comments/t73p1e/what_found_inside_the_era_on_russian_tanks_in/ https://www.reddit.com/r/TankPorn/comments/t73p1e/what_found...

dralley 5y ago
You can clearly see in the pictures though that there are no plates on the outside.
ChuckNorris89 5y ago
I don't, but if the link you posted is the truth then I could have been mistaken.

henrikschroder 5y ago

It's become clear to me that a lot of us who grew up during the cold war, kept thinking that Russia was still as much of a threat as the Soviet Union was, which is why so many of us are surprised at this turn of events. But the Soviet Union fell thirty years ago, an entire generation ago. The Soviet Union had 280 million people, more than the US had at the time. Big. Scary. But Russia today has only 140 million people. Over half the population just up and left when given the chance. They said "thanks, but no thanks" to Moscow. Sure, Russia still has a big military budget, but their GDP isn't that great. Their GDP is much smaller than Italy's, alone. Smaller than France's, alone. Smaller than Germany's, alone. Hell, even the five Nordic countries have a higher combined GDP than Russia has. Growing up in the Nordics during the cold war meant having to think about Russia as an enormous big bad who could crush us completely if they wanted to. But now, our combined economies are larger. Russia is corrupt, and has been corrupt for an entire generation. And it's been corrupt on a scale that is unprecedented compared to itself in the past, and compared to the rest of Europe. We complain about the military-industrial complex and how much waste there is, but military contractors in the west actually deliver stuff, whereas all the corrupted half-assery of the Russian military is being exposed now. The combined defence budget of the EU is about 4 times larger than Russia's. Since the end of the cold war, the EU has been prosperous, peaceful, and happy. We've invested in our defence and grown stronger over the last thirty years, while Russia has declined. We in the EU have over three times the population, over four times the military budget, and ten times the GDP of Russia. We have nukes and tanks and aircraft carriers and submarines and stealth fighters of our own. And yet so many still view Russia as a threat, as a bigger and stronger foe. This debacle sure has been eye-opening to me, and I hope it's been that way for everyone else stuck in the cold-war mentality.

ChuckNorris89 5y ago
>The combined defence budget of the EU is about 4 times larger than Russia's. Since the end of the cold war, the EU has been prosperous, peaceful, and happy. We've invested in our defence and grown stronger over the last thirty years, while Russia has declined. Simple. The EU is not military united but it's pretty much a "every man for himself" kind of thing outside of NATO or a direct attack, but the EU or NATO is currently not under attack so some people see Ukraine as "more of you problem than a me problem"… so other than sending some aid to Ukraine most people don't want to go to war with Russia or suffer crippling energy shortages for Ukraine. EU leaders are also not immune from kleptocratic greed and external and internal corruption. Austria is more than happy to keep pumping money into Russia in exchange for cheap gas, as that gas runs 80% of their industry, and several elite Austrian politicians were given top jobs on boards of Russian oil and gas companies to lobby for them and against nuclear or other alternatives, or have straight up offered their support to Russian oligarchs in under-the-table business deals ( the infamous "Ibiza scandal"). Good luck replacing that gas on a whim after several decades of Russian lobbying that lead to the current status quo.