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I appreciate you sharing this. Reminds me of a class I took at the University of Illinois, it was a seminar in entrepreneurship for engineers, if I remember co

I appreciate you sharing this. Reminds me of a class I took at the University of Illinois, it was a seminar in entrepreneurship for engineers, if I remember correctly. I believe a CEO of a $100M+ company came in and gave a speech. His first slide had a PowerPoint, on which he put something like, "3...2...1." Then he said, "3 wives, 2 divorces, and 1 heart attack. That's the real cost of entrepreneurship." I've remembered it ever since.

pmoriarty 5y ago
a CEO of a $100M+ company came in and gave a speech. His first slide had a PowerPoint, on which he put something like, "3...2...1." Then he said, "3 wives, 2 divorces, and 1 heart attack. That's the real cost of entrepreneurship." Plenty of people who were never entrepreneurs suffer the same or worse.. and do so while earning a tiny pittance of what CEOs make. Lack of money causes all sorts of additional stress on families as well... including health issues from not being able to afford health care, or only getting poor quality healthcare, or not being able to afford preventative care, eating poorly, living in dangerous/polluted areas, not being able to afford to send your kids to college, not being able to afford vacations, etc.. Not to mention the stress of being treated like shit or replaceable cogs by the people above you in work environments that are unhealthy or unsafe. CEOs have it easy.
- dosethree 5y ago
  Isn’t being a good parent not making your family choose between being poor and having a workaholic parent?
- joyeuse6701 5y ago
  Yeah but the (insert suffering in group) had it tougher than (out group). We can always compare and find someone or something that has it worse. What’s the point in bringing it up, that we can’t feel sorry for someone who has suffered because someone else has perhaps suffered more in our estimation? No one has nor should have a monopoly on sympathy.
- solveit 5y ago
  Presumably said CEO wasn't in much danger of poverty though. The entrepreneurship caused his troubles. That other things also could is beside the point.
  - pmoriarty 5y ago
    "The entrepreneurship caused his troubles." Did it, though? That sort of misfortune can and does happen even without entrepreneurship, and might well have happened to him anyway.
    - shard 5y ago
      Well, we can quote statistics and cite studies, but the point is that the entrepreneur himself attributed his failed marriages and heart attack to the entrepreneurship.
      - pmoriarty 5y ago
        "the entrepreneur himself attributed his failed marriages and heart attack to the entrepreneurship" Of course he did, as it made his enormous wealth seem like the result of great sacrifices. You see this all the time. Why do the rich deserve all their money? Because they made such great sacrifices and took all those tremendous risks. It's self-aggrandizement and self-justification. Low wage workers make sacrifices and take risks just as great (or greater) all the time, but no one is going to pay hundreds of dollars a plate to hear them give a keynote speech humblebragging about how they worked so hard they had 3 heart attacks during their minimum wage jobs (from which they probably got fired for having to miss work), or how their marriages broke up... which happens all the time.
        jimkleiber 5y ago
        FWIW, I remember him sounding quite dejected and sincerely questioning whether it was all worth it. It didn't seem like a "I failed big time and now I'm living on top of the world" kind of opening. I still feel sad when I think about it. That's not to disagree with you, we often overlook the struggles and challenges of people in lower economic classes or less prestigious positions. More just to say I didn't get that humble brag vibe at all. Oh, and I also don't know if he got paid, as I think he was an alumnus and it may have just been a volunteer speech. Again, I know there are other speeches in which people do get paid and follow the pattern you outlined, just saying I don't think this was one of them.
- bgroat 5y ago
  One of my favourite books is called, "The Man Who Loved Books Too Much" (2010) which is the true story of a high-end book thief. There's a scene in the book where the author is interviewing the thief in prison during one of his (several) custodial sentences, and the conversation goes something like this: Author: You're intelligent, erudite, charming. Why don't you become a lawyer or something? Thief: It takes about 10 years to become a lawyer, with undergrad, law school, articleing, etc. I don't want to do any of that. But say I did, a partner at a top firm makes what, $600k? That's around what I'm alleged to have made this year Author: But what about the strain on your family? Thief: Because lawyers don't get divorced? It continues like this for awhile as the thief very persuasively argues the risk adjusted returns of high-end larceny
  - fatjokes 5y ago
    Partners at top firms make 600k? Man FAANGs pay well
    - bgroat 5y ago
      The book was published in 2010, and featured interviews from before then. So let's say a partner at a top 100 firm in 2008, latest?
nradov 5y ago
Mark Cuban had a different perspective when he was younger. “I went through girlfriends (who threatened) — ‘It is your business or me,'” the Shark Tank investor recalled. “And I was like — ‘What is your name again?’ It was just non-stop.” https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/shark-tank-star-mark-cuban-delivered-this-response-to-girlfriends-who-gave-him-an-ultimatum.html/ https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/shark-tank-star-mar... I'm not endorsing that comment. I just thought it was interesting to see how a notable entrepreneur approached relationships. He did later get married after achieving financial success, and presumably knows his wife's name.
- blunte 5y ago
  It's a question of what you live for and where you find your worth. If you live for other people, and you find your worth in them, then you will direct your path accordingly. If you find your worth from within, or perhaps from without in a very broad sense (making something big that the world needs/wants/admires), then 1:1 is not so important.
- jimkleiber 5y ago
  I appreciate this comment. Something I've currently struggled with is the tension between a private life (romance, family, etc) and a public life (running a business, podcast, politics). I find that sometimes a private life wants me to care about those few people more than all the other people and a public life wants me to care about all people equally. Maybe that story of the CEO stuck with me and has added to the fear I feel about becoming too public (will lose my romance and family), and may be why I've hidden more and more from public life. Anyway, I'm grateful for you showing another side to this, thank you.
  - KerrAvon 5y ago
    The people I know who have been successful at both simultaneously have extremely rigid boundaries between their business and personal lives, to the point of being different people at work and at home. Even they almost universally eventually discover they're not as available to their children as they thought they were, however. Caveat emptor.
Fezzik 5y ago
This reminds me of big law firms - I briefly worked at a gigantic law firm and it seemed the closer to partner an attorney was the more divorces, mistresses, and extreme health problems that attorney would have.

pmoriarty 5y ago

a CEO of a $100M+ company came in and gave a speech. His first slide had a PowerPoint, on which he put something like, "3...2...1." Then he said, "3 wives, 2 divorces, and 1 heart attack. That's the real cost of entrepreneurship." Plenty of people who were never entrepreneurs suffer the same or worse.. and do so while earning a tiny pittance of what CEOs make. Lack of money causes all sorts of additional stress on families as well... including health issues from not being able to afford health care, or only getting poor quality healthcare, or not being able to afford preventative care, eating poorly, living in dangerous/polluted areas, not being able to afford to send your kids to college, not being able to afford vacations, etc.. Not to mention the stress of being treated like shit or replaceable cogs by the people above you in work environments that are unhealthy or unsafe. CEOs have it easy.

dosethree 5y ago
Isn’t being a good parent not making your family choose between being poor and having a workaholic parent?
joyeuse6701 5y ago
Yeah but the (insert suffering in group) had it tougher than (out group). We can always compare and find someone or something that has it worse. What’s the point in bringing it up, that we can’t feel sorry for someone who has suffered because someone else has perhaps suffered more in our estimation? No one has nor should have a monopoly on sympathy.
solveit 5y ago
Presumably said CEO wasn't in much danger of poverty though. The entrepreneurship caused his troubles. That other things also could is beside the point.
- pmoriarty 5y ago
  "The entrepreneurship caused his troubles." Did it, though? That sort of misfortune can and does happen even without entrepreneurship, and might well have happened to him anyway.
  - shard 5y ago
    Well, we can quote statistics and cite studies, but the point is that the entrepreneur himself attributed his failed marriages and heart attack to the entrepreneurship.
    - pmoriarty 5y ago
      "the entrepreneur himself attributed his failed marriages and heart attack to the entrepreneurship" Of course he did, as it made his enormous wealth seem like the result of great sacrifices. You see this all the time. Why do the rich deserve all their money? Because they made such great sacrifices and took all those tremendous risks. It's self-aggrandizement and self-justification. Low wage workers make sacrifices and take risks just as great (or greater) all the time, but no one is going to pay hundreds of dollars a plate to hear them give a keynote speech humblebragging about how they worked so hard they had 3 heart attacks during their minimum wage jobs (from which they probably got fired for having to miss work), or how their marriages broke up... which happens all the time.
      - jimkleiber 5y ago
        FWIW, I remember him sounding quite dejected and sincerely questioning whether it was all worth it. It didn't seem like a "I failed big time and now I'm living on top of the world" kind of opening. I still feel sad when I think about it. That's not to disagree with you, we often overlook the struggles and challenges of people in lower economic classes or less prestigious positions. More just to say I didn't get that humble brag vibe at all. Oh, and I also don't know if he got paid, as I think he was an alumnus and it may have just been a volunteer speech. Again, I know there are other speeches in which people do get paid and follow the pattern you outlined, just saying I don't think this was one of them.
bgroat 5y ago
One of my favourite books is called, "The Man Who Loved Books Too Much" (2010) which is the true story of a high-end book thief. There's a scene in the book where the author is interviewing the thief in prison during one of his (several) custodial sentences, and the conversation goes something like this: Author: You're intelligent, erudite, charming. Why don't you become a lawyer or something? Thief: It takes about 10 years to become a lawyer, with undergrad, law school, articleing, etc. I don't want to do any of that. But say I did, a partner at a top firm makes what, $600k? That's around what I'm alleged to have made this year Author: But what about the strain on your family? Thief: Because lawyers don't get divorced? It continues like this for awhile as the thief very persuasively argues the risk adjusted returns of high-end larceny
- fatjokes 5y ago
  Partners at top firms make 600k? Man FAANGs pay well
  - bgroat 5y ago
    The book was published in 2010, and featured interviews from before then. So let's say a partner at a top 100 firm in 2008, latest?

nradov 5y ago

Mark Cuban had a different perspective when he was younger. “I went through girlfriends (who threatened) — ‘It is your business or me,'” the Shark Tank investor recalled. “And I was like — ‘What is your name again?’ It was just non-stop.” https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/shark-tank-star-mark-cuban-delivered-this-response-to-girlfriends-who-gave-him-an-ultimatum.html/ https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/shark-tank-star-mar... I'm not endorsing that comment. I just thought it was interesting to see how a notable entrepreneur approached relationships. He did later get married after achieving financial success, and presumably knows his wife's name.

blunte 5y ago
It's a question of what you live for and where you find your worth. If you live for other people, and you find your worth in them, then you will direct your path accordingly. If you find your worth from within, or perhaps from without in a very broad sense (making something big that the world needs/wants/admires), then 1:1 is not so important.
jimkleiber 5y ago
I appreciate this comment. Something I've currently struggled with is the tension between a private life (romance, family, etc) and a public life (running a business, podcast, politics). I find that sometimes a private life wants me to care about those few people more than all the other people and a public life wants me to care about all people equally. Maybe that story of the CEO stuck with me and has added to the fear I feel about becoming too public (will lose my romance and family), and may be why I've hidden more and more from public life. Anyway, I'm grateful for you showing another side to this, thank you.
- KerrAvon 5y ago
  The people I know who have been successful at both simultaneously have extremely rigid boundaries between their business and personal lives, to the point of being different people at work and at home. Even they almost universally eventually discover they're not as available to their children as they thought they were, however. Caveat emptor.

Fezzik 5y ago

This reminds me of big law firms - I briefly worked at a gigantic law firm and it seemed the closer to partner an attorney was the more divorces, mistresses, and extreme health problems that attorney would have.