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Imagine knowing literally anything about north Korea and wanting to help that government. He should be put away for life for aiding crimes against humanity.

RobertRoberts 5y ago
What if the news about NK is not entirely unbiased? (I have no proof either way, just asking the question) Edit: People are taking my comment wrong. I am asking this because there are a lot of assumptions people have, I know almost nothing about NK, and the comment I replied to seemed somewhat irrational, a little reactionary and certainly vindictive.
- jcrash 5y ago
  There are many different sources of information about what goes on in NK, including people who have escaped from there.
  - xtian 5y ago
    True: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkUMZS-ZegM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkUMZS-ZegM
- outworlder 5y ago
  No news sources are entirely unbiased, even when they make an effort to be. Regardless, we know a lot from NK from multiple sources. The main reason we don't know more is because of how closed that dictatorship is.
  - rat9988 5y ago
    Or how closed we are to them? There is no media unbiased about them in the west. But I do know you can travel to NK and see for yourself. That said, it is easier to know things about Portugal than NK. They are definitely doing something to hide information. I'm just trying to say that any image based on the media from non friendly country is bound to be wrong. No matter how much different sources you have.
    - mythopedia 5y ago
      > But I do know you can travel to NK and see for yourself. My understanding is that tourists in North Korea only see what the government of North Korea wants them to see. Here's one (admittedly potentially biased) source that claims as much: "Tourist travel to North Korea is only possible as part of a guided tour. Independent travel is not permitted. If you are not prepared to accept severe limitations on your movements, behaviour, and freedom of expression, you should not travel to North Korea." [0] [0] https://wikitravel.org/en/North_Korea https://wikitravel.org/en/North_Korea
    - watwut 5y ago
      We are not closed to them. The relationship in terms of how much each country sees inside the other is highly asymmetric here.
    - outworlder 5y ago
      > But I do know you can travel to NK and see for yourself. No you cannot. You'll be chaperoned everywhere and only shown things they want you to see.
    - sterlind 5y ago
      you can travel to NK, but you might end up like Otto Warmbier and come home a couple years later braindead. (he stole as a propaganda poster a souvenir, but brain death after a year of brutal torture seems.. extreme.) you're also not allowed to travel without a guide. also, given the videos I've seen taken by tourists when they've been able to sneak away from their minders, NK does not look very happy.
- samhw 5y ago
  There's a difference between "media companies may have conflicts of interest or ideological bents" and "every single proposition ever stated by a journalist is specifically false".
  - skrtskrt 5y ago
    it is true that a lot of mainstream media outlets that people consider "probably biased but overall trustworthy" just regurgitate talking points from the State Department, law enforcement, etc as fact. One only needs to read the CIA's Wikipedia page or the CIA's own website to understand how embarrassing of a failure of thought and journalism it is to trust these institutions
s1artibartfast 5y ago
You can know that North Korean government does bad things but still be against sanctions. It is not self evident that broad sections help the situation or the people of NK.
- forinti 5y ago
  Exactly. Sanctions against Cuba, Iran and NK have achieved very little. They might even be helping keep the status quo in those countries.
  - marcinzm 5y ago
    You're assuming the goal is some sort of democratic revolution rather than keeping the economies of those countries constrained so they have less money to spend on weapons.
    - s1artibartfast 5y ago
      Interesting implications for the case of Cuba. If so, their primary crime is being a country in close proximity to the USA. So much for arguments of respecting national autonomy.
      - kyleplum 5y ago
        Refusing to trade with a country is not a violation of their national autonomy.
        yazantapuz 5y ago
        This. A lot of people seems to think that the USA bans everyone in the world to trade with cuba, even if they could buy an Havann Club in the store.
        wspess 5y ago
        While USA does not ban everyone from doing trade with Cuba, USA does ban everyone who trades with Cuba from doing trade with the US. You can clearly see how this creates insentives for not trading with Cuba and instead trading with the far larger market next to it.
chrisco255 5y ago
Lol what if by spreading crypto knowledge in totalitarian states, you give people in those states a viable way to preserve their income and assets in a way that no other asset class can? Imagine someone trying to protest or escape a regime imposing capital controls on citizens such as North Korea or Canada. What if, those citizens could simply memorize or encode a 12-24 word phrase that could preserve their net worth against all forms of tyranny? What if by doing so, you create the conditions that lead to the eventual collapse or reform of said totalitarian state?
- AlexCoventry 5y ago
  That's not the case with North Korea. Most people don't have access to computers, let alone the internet, so they can't use crypto for their personal finances.
  - boomboomsubban 5y ago
    Really? Most households have a cell phone, though internet access is spotty.
    - HyperRational 5y ago
    - AlexCoventry 5y ago
      The phones can't be used as general-purpose computers. Access to smartphone apps is tightly controlled. https://www.businessinsider.com/north-korea-smartphones-2018-7?r=US&IR=T#north-koreans-have-to-buy-apps-from-a-physical-store-6 https://www.businessinsider.com/north-korea-smartphones-2018... > Despite having connection to an intranet, North Korean smartphone users have to download apps at physical store locations where they can get apps approved by the North Korean government.
      - boomboomsubban 5y ago
        To use crypto for their personal finances, they wouldn't need general purpose computers and government approved apps could be sufficient. Though it's possible that they would be backdoored preventing the kind of economic freedom the poster was describing. For the record, I don't think North Koreans are using crypto for their personal finances, I just disagree that they are unable to.
glerk 5y ago
Sanctions have achieved nothing but isolate North Korea, ruin the lives of generations of innocent people and entrench an authoritarian ruling class. Sanctions are a crime against humanity.

RobertRoberts 5y ago

What if the news about NK is not entirely unbiased? (I have no proof either way, just asking the question) Edit: People are taking my comment wrong. I am asking this because there are a lot of assumptions people have, I know almost nothing about NK, and the comment I replied to seemed somewhat irrational, a little reactionary and certainly vindictive.

jcrash 5y ago
There are many different sources of information about what goes on in NK, including people who have escaped from there.
- xtian 5y ago
  True: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkUMZS-ZegM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkUMZS-ZegM
outworlder 5y ago
No news sources are entirely unbiased, even when they make an effort to be. Regardless, we know a lot from NK from multiple sources. The main reason we don't know more is because of how closed that dictatorship is.
- rat9988 5y ago
  Or how closed we are to them? There is no media unbiased about them in the west. But I do know you can travel to NK and see for yourself. That said, it is easier to know things about Portugal than NK. They are definitely doing something to hide information. I'm just trying to say that any image based on the media from non friendly country is bound to be wrong. No matter how much different sources you have.
  - mythopedia 5y ago
    > But I do know you can travel to NK and see for yourself. My understanding is that tourists in North Korea only see what the government of North Korea wants them to see. Here's one (admittedly potentially biased) source that claims as much: "Tourist travel to North Korea is only possible as part of a guided tour. Independent travel is not permitted. If you are not prepared to accept severe limitations on your movements, behaviour, and freedom of expression, you should not travel to North Korea." [0] [0] https://wikitravel.org/en/North_Korea https://wikitravel.org/en/North_Korea
  - watwut 5y ago
    We are not closed to them. The relationship in terms of how much each country sees inside the other is highly asymmetric here.
  - outworlder 5y ago
    > But I do know you can travel to NK and see for yourself. No you cannot. You'll be chaperoned everywhere and only shown things they want you to see.
  - sterlind 5y ago
    you can travel to NK, but you might end up like Otto Warmbier and come home a couple years later braindead. (he stole as a propaganda poster a souvenir, but brain death after a year of brutal torture seems.. extreme.) you're also not allowed to travel without a guide. also, given the videos I've seen taken by tourists when they've been able to sneak away from their minders, NK does not look very happy.
samhw 5y ago
There's a difference between "media companies may have conflicts of interest or ideological bents" and "every single proposition ever stated by a journalist is specifically false".
- skrtskrt 5y ago
  it is true that a lot of mainstream media outlets that people consider "probably biased but overall trustworthy" just regurgitate talking points from the State Department, law enforcement, etc as fact. One only needs to read the CIA's Wikipedia page or the CIA's own website to understand how embarrassing of a failure of thought and journalism it is to trust these institutions

s1artibartfast 5y ago

You can know that North Korean government does bad things but still be against sanctions. It is not self evident that broad sections help the situation or the people of NK.

forinti 5y ago
Exactly. Sanctions against Cuba, Iran and NK have achieved very little. They might even be helping keep the status quo in those countries.
- marcinzm 5y ago
  You're assuming the goal is some sort of democratic revolution rather than keeping the economies of those countries constrained so they have less money to spend on weapons.
  - s1artibartfast 5y ago
    Interesting implications for the case of Cuba. If so, their primary crime is being a country in close proximity to the USA. So much for arguments of respecting national autonomy.
    - kyleplum 5y ago
      Refusing to trade with a country is not a violation of their national autonomy.
      - yazantapuz 5y ago
        This. A lot of people seems to think that the USA bans everyone in the world to trade with cuba, even if they could buy an Havann Club in the store.
        wspess 5y ago
        While USA does not ban everyone from doing trade with Cuba, USA does ban everyone who trades with Cuba from doing trade with the US. You can clearly see how this creates insentives for not trading with Cuba and instead trading with the far larger market next to it.

chrisco255 5y ago

Lol what if by spreading crypto knowledge in totalitarian states, you give people in those states a viable way to preserve their income and assets in a way that no other asset class can? Imagine someone trying to protest or escape a regime imposing capital controls on citizens such as North Korea or Canada. What if, those citizens could simply memorize or encode a 12-24 word phrase that could preserve their net worth against all forms of tyranny? What if by doing so, you create the conditions that lead to the eventual collapse or reform of said totalitarian state?

AlexCoventry 5y ago
That's not the case with North Korea. Most people don't have access to computers, let alone the internet, so they can't use crypto for their personal finances.
- boomboomsubban 5y ago
  Really? Most households have a cell phone, though internet access is spotty.
  - HyperRational 5y ago
  - AlexCoventry 5y ago
    The phones can't be used as general-purpose computers. Access to smartphone apps is tightly controlled. https://www.businessinsider.com/north-korea-smartphones-2018-7?r=US&IR=T#north-koreans-have-to-buy-apps-from-a-physical-store-6 https://www.businessinsider.com/north-korea-smartphones-2018... > Despite having connection to an intranet, North Korean smartphone users have to download apps at physical store locations where they can get apps approved by the North Korean government.
    - boomboomsubban 5y ago
      To use crypto for their personal finances, they wouldn't need general purpose computers and government approved apps could be sufficient. Though it's possible that they would be backdoored preventing the kind of economic freedom the poster was describing. For the record, I don't think North Koreans are using crypto for their personal finances, I just disagree that they are unable to.

glerk 5y ago

Sanctions have achieved nothing but isolate North Korea, ruin the lives of generations of innocent people and entrench an authoritarian ruling class. Sanctions are a crime against humanity.