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How Intelligent Are Cats? (2004)
- airbreather 4y agoSmart enough to get you to feed it if you own one...
- naoqj 4y agoTldr?
- c22 4y agoI had my cat read it to me.
- geocrasher 4y agoHow intelligent are cats? Intelligent enough to be the subject of a very long article about feline intelligence which I also did not read in full due to it's excessive length!
- smackeyacky 4y agoCats and dogs can be roughly assessed as being about the same in intelligence but vary strongly in trainability due to their different motivations. Dogs gain advantage by pack living, cats by loose association. Pack living offers a better platform for coordination and training hence dogs are more motivated to learn tricks. In the past this trainability was associated with intelligence but modern studies indicate trainability and intelligence are not correlated as closely as we used to think. In short: you train a dog, your cat trains you aka the old joke about dogs having masters and cats having staff is probably true.
- naoqj 4y agoThanks, I appreciate it.
- em500 4y agoNice summary. I skimmed the entire article, and it appears to be mainly about explaining why the traditional consensus that cats are less intelligent than dogs would be biased. "Because we judge intelligence by comparing other creatures to ourselves, many popular accounts of cat behaviour describe learning as though cats are mentally defective humans rather than highly specialised carnivores."
- ianai 4y agoI wish it had pointed out cats also have fast twitch muscles. Their actions are constrained by this. They thus aren’t going to rush through a maze on a whim or for the chance at a treat.
- hef19898 4y agoMy personal pet theory is that cats are the only animals ever to domesticate humans.
- ianai 4y agoAgree. That’s how I introduce my cat to his doctors or boarders “he’s trained me very well.”
- bryanrasmussen 4y agothat's funny, but considering the many ways in which humans have mistreated them over the centuries I don't think they really benefited all that much from the relationship https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/ritualistic-cat-torture-was-once-a-form-of-town-fun https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/ritualistic-cat-tortur...
- goldenkey 4y agoThat's just the tip of the iceberg. Cats are often used in gory neurology research. The research is unnecessary and wasteful, most of it just grant-farming. [1] https://www.peta.org/features/uw-madison-cruelty/ https://www.peta.org/features/uw-madison-cruelty/
- ianai 4y agoStill reading, but this seems counter factual: “Whereas dogs have been bred for utility, cats have been bred solely for appearance.” My understanding was cats largely served as pest control from the human perspective. It’s probably why they continue to hunt even when well fed.
- exizt88 4y agoI think the point is that when cats were intentionally bred, it was for appearance. The natural selection of feral/domestic non-bred cats took its own course.
- ianai 4y agoCats have been following people around for millennia whereas “breeding“ is more of a last couple centuries thing. Some breeds do have personality differences like ragdolls. They’re also generally harder to breed because they’re more likely to crossbreed with wild cats-which is how we think we got Maine coons.
- bell-cot 4y ago+1...but most farmers I've known who did have "barnyard" cats seemed quite aware of which cats were or were not good at vermin control. None of the farmers have (that I've heard) "intentionally bred" barnyard cats. But they may not hesitate to, ah, "strongly influence" which barnyard cats enjoy reproductive success. Sometimes in ways which non-farmers with pet cats might prefer not to hear about.
- garbagetime 4y agoMaybe that's why cats like to bring dead bodies to their owners. Because cats that do that were noted as good hunters. I mean, probably not, but wahtever.
- ianai 4y agoThat’s their behavior when a kitten needs to learn to hunt and kill. They’re literally saying they’ve never seen you hunt and kill prey so they want you to learn.
- zabzonk 4y agoThat first picture of a kitten in a maze reminded me of my A-level (final year pre-university, for non-UK people) Bio project on animal learning. I used gerbils (too scared to use rats) but I can assure people that whatever the animal, the trick is working how to keep the little bastards in the maze, not how to train them.
- IncRnd 4y agoMy cat, Felix, brought his iPad pro from the other room, logged into HN (because Felix doesn't trust persistent logins), read the article to me, then discussed the implications before demanding I open the door for him, because he is a cat and doesn't want to open the door himself.
- FerociousTimes 4y agoAny chance your cat has a black and white fur, a bag of tricks and a world-renowned reality TV show?
- dylan604 4y agoSounds more like this particular cat's image was stamped on a sheet of blotter and the person has partaken in a couple of squares.
- Giorgi 4y agoHow would we know this is not cat's comment?
- hownottowrite 4y agoThe real question isn’t how intelligent cats are but whether we’re smart enough to really tell. https://wwnorton.com/books/Are-We-Smart-Enough-to-Know-How-Smart-Animals-Are/ https://wwnorton.com/books/Are-We-Smart-Enough-to-Know-How-S...
- vmception 4y agoGreat article, other comments have already covered my main thoughts But those sound boards that let pets communicate with words and concatenate have been okay at helping me move past our tests of intelligence. We cant even communicate with other humans that cant dont talk back or use fingers. I’m also less convinced that human behaviors are not just reward seeking patterns chained together, so I cant dismiss a pet’s use of a sound board as just trained behavior for a treat - at least as a reason to dismiss their intelligence or weigh that action any way at all I would say its evidence of understanding and that the animal is aware that they cannot use their vocal cords to respond to us and just give up trying that
- Stratoscope 4y agoFor anyone who wonders if cats are intelligent, I submit for your consideration Tulie and Sephie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46rROBUDPYI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46rROBUDPYI I was playing with them with a bird wand toy and then I wanted to get back to work. So I wedged the toy's handle in the chair. Tulie had studied how I operated the toy, and she decided to work it herself to keep Sephie entertained. At one point the feathers got stuck on the chair, and Tulie figured out how to unstick them! Then the dogs came by to get some water, and the cats were like "nothing to see here, move along now." And then with the dogs out of the way, they got back to business.
- i80and 4y agoMy calico understands that the laser pointer is the object that causes the red dot to appear, and would paw at it when she would want to play with the red dot. Cats pay attention and put things together!
- jhbadger 4y agoI had a cat who would actually pick up the pointer with her mouth and bring it to me when she wanted to play.
- implements 4y agoThe key word in the above three posts might be “she” - my two female cats seem much more intelligent and playful than the male ones. (Perhaps because as adults they have to mother and train kittens, unlike more the solitary males?)
- implements 4y agoI’m puzzled the above comment is being downvoted. Wild feline species are often social for groups of females, and solitary for males. They’re instinctual rather than (like us) cultural animals - it’s entirely possible that male and female domestic cats exhibit different types of social intelligence and playfulness with respect to each other and to humans, and as I said, my (five!) do.
- ggm 4y ago"Cat sense" by John Bradshaw is a fascinating read on the nature of cats. Not really on-topic here, but a great read on feline behaviour.
- dspillett 4y agoThey are often intelligent enough to actively resist intelligence tests, unlike too many humans who click through any and all "only some% know this, do you?" marketing/pii-harvesting rubbish.
- rollcat 4y agoCats also show a form of... empathy? Consideration? One of my cats wakes me up every day around 5-6AM to get food. She does so by making just enough noise to wake me up, but not my partner (she's doing it on my side of the bed, etc). She also does that when she's not hungry, but her sister is.
- willis936 4y agoFunny, my cat will try to wake me up but when I'm lethargic will start to attack my SO knowing the threat of that will animate me.
- sundvor 4y agoThat sounds about right. :) I have two very smart cats myself. 16 years old now though, so mostly sleeping. One of them loves snuggling up in my armpit in my office bed, and will get really upset when I don't come at his calling. Burmese can truly get vocal.
- smilespray 4y agoTell me more about this office bed concept.
- sundvor 4y agoAh, I had a spare bed there that I ended up using increasingly more.. Sorry, not too exciting.
- hprotagonist 4y agoit’s spelled “keyboard”
- NateEag 4y ago...late, but: If you're working from home, there's a good chance you're doing so from a spare bedroom, as they're convenient places to double as an office. If you have a laptop and a split keyboard, all you need to add for a pretty comfortable lying-down workstation is a lap desk with decent clearance. I found this one worked well during surgery recovery: https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B091CB1RDB https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B091CB1RDB
- lionkor 4y agoLiterally too long, didnt read entirely. But! > Other tests include the ability to learn and remember. Is the ability to learn by rote a sign of intelligence? If so, any avian mimic is intelligent. I would argue this shouldnt just be dismissed like that. I would argue that mimicking is a sign of intelligence - The fact that a toddler can mimic an animal, even if that animal has vastly different anatomy, seems very intelligent. It suggests an understanding of the similarities between function of body parts, even if the form differs significantly. Why would an avian mimic not be a sign of significant intelligence, such as understanding vocalizations and how they happen? A bird rarely has to sit there for hours trying random sounds to mimic another sound, it understand and knows what to do, does it not?
- seba_dos1 4y agoBird species that mimic tend to be considered the most intelligent ones by other factors as well (corvids, parrots). That dismissal seems quite ignorant.
- goldenkey 4y agoMy family's African Grey mimics telephone sounds, sirens, and human voices and phrases. But he does it mainly to fuck with everyone and will literally laugh after fooling someone. If an animal enjoys messing with another animal, is that a sign of intelligence?
- seba_dos1 4y agoI'm not sure whether liking it is a sign of intelligence, but I'd say that you certainly have to be intelligent to be able to intentionally fool someone this way.
- mytailorisrich 4y agoThey are very intelligent at communicating different things to us and at learning through observation. For instance, my experience is that they can quickly understand the function of a door handle and even learn to operate it in order to open the door.
- Razengan 4y agoYes
- Razengan 4y agoOurs understood how to open doors by jumping up at the handle and pulling it down. Another could clearly tell we were angry when we frowned.
- mft_ 4y agoHaving spent the past three years observing two quite different cats who came into my life via a relationship, I'd say the answer is "eh, a little". One of them has learnt to do basic tricks for treats, and has also learned to turn on two different robot hoovers by pressing the right button - she only does this late at night, which I take either as attention-seeking or just boredom? The other one is the Zoolander of cats. Beyond this, they seem quite limited: sleep, eat, wander around, watch the world go by, occasionally hang out with us, sometimes play or hunt.
- darkerside 4y agoWhy does that make them unintelligent? More like unambitious if you ask me.
- dylan604 4y agoThat's like looking at your retired grandparents and calling them unambitious for just sleeping and playing golf and eating dinner at 4pm. A 16 year old cat deserves to do whatever the hellz it wants.
- darkerside 4y agoOr a teenager for sleeping and playing videogames. The only difference is time horizon, which you introduced I suppose for the sake of your own argument? No idea how old these cats are.
- blacklion 4y agoMy mother has degree in behavioral biology (though rather old one, she got diploma in 1980, in USSR), and her first job after university was "surgically intrusive experiments to assess learning and intelligence" in cats. She abandoned this work after half a year, because she thinks it was too cruel to animals. Her career was ruined, as in USSR you was unable to easily quit your job in first 3 years after university, you have to work for 3 years on assigned job, to "pay out" your education. As result all her subsequent jobs were low-wage ones, like typist, nurse, and sometimes cleaner or dishwasher. Only after the fall of USSR my father started successful software business (we didn't know word "start-up" till much later) which allows my mother to not work anymore. But as far as I know, she never regret her decision.
- jelliclesfarm 4y agoI too have a family member who turned down top research positions in genomics and forensics stateside because it would mean dissecting cats. She never regretted it either.
- nnoitra 4y agoWhat is it about this animal that makes it very dear to our hearts?
- papacho 4y agoThe lack of self awareness makes animals innocents and it's hard to justify hurting an innocent being.
- NoRagrets 4y agoIt’s neotenisation of animals features..especially domesticated animals. Cats are an exception..dogs have eyebrows..cats don’t!..they didn’t have to evolve to look like our young. We are often protective towards faces that look like our young. It’s hard coded for most creatures. Big eyes, flat side profile and reduction in size of the skulls. Tugging human heart strings means they don’t have to compete for food resources. Domesticated animals also exhibit this with behaviour as well as physical features. Cats..for example.. can be rather aloof ..until they need you. They are absolutely affectionate fur balls. We don’t play hide and seek..and fetch with adults but we do with children and our pets. They become child substitutes and satisfies a very primal caregiving instinct in humans who may not be able to express it with other humans. Also..this is why psychopaths start early with torturing and killing animals. It’s an early warning sign to lock these people up and throw the keys away.
- krylon 4y agoWhen I was young, we had a cat that would sit down next to me as I was sitting in front of the PC, and start meowing. I would pet her head, and she would move away, a meter or so an continue meowing until I got up and petted her again. Step by step, she would lure me all the way to the kitchen and give me a look said that, "Now that we are here anyway, how 'bout some of that food?". A bit manipulative, I admit, but kind of clever. Also, I suspect cats tricked humans into starting agriculture so they (the cats) would have a steady supply of mice.
- ineedasername 4y agoSo I guess the difference is that humans are good at training dogs, while cats are good at training humans.
- cstross 4y agoAs the old joke puts it: dogs have owners, but cats have staff.
- ggeorgovassilis 4y agoI loved Saturn's Children!
- robwwilliams 4y agoLove it.
- dvtrn 4y agoI know that certain “redditisms” like “username checks out” probably don’t fly here…but seeing someone named “RobWilliams” responding positively to a cat joke just puts a warm smile on my face.
- simonh 4y agoA dog looks up to you and a cat looks down on you, but a pig looks upon you as an equal. - Winston Churchill
- ollifi 4y agoIf me and a cat were thrown into random woods my money would be on the cat surviving for longer period. I think humans are pretty fit in groups, but cats are functional enough to make it on their own. I think human style intelligence we appreciate so highly is useful mostly in relation to other humans.
- paganel 4y agoWe have a cat and a border collie, we love them both to the moon and back. That said, me and my SO both agree that our cat is "smarter" than our dog, he (meaning the cat) "invents" games with our dog which the latter very heartily "adopts" but, nevertheless, are not "invented" by him (by the dog). Also, our dog being a BC that means that, at times, he wants to herd our cat, after long bouts of staring at said cat. In response to all that the cat has invented and performed very smart avoidance techniques that he hadn't use with us before the BC came into our life (the cat was with us first, for about two years). And that's just two quick things that sprung to my mind on learning the article, there are many others. There's also the misconception of "cats don't love/care about their owners" which is just a stupid stereotype.
- dcdc123 4y agoThere is at least one [0] myth that has never had scientific standing or proof stated as factual in that article, so take it with a grain of salt. Several other statements seem iffy to me but I do not know enough those specific subjects to know for sure. [0] https://sciencenorway.no/ulv/wolf-packs-dont-actually-have-alpha-males-and-alpha-females-the-idea-is-based-on-a-misunderstanding/1850514 https://sciencenorway.no/ulv/wolf-packs-dont-actually-have-a...
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- chiph 4y agoI've been watching Billi off and on. And her vocabulary has increased over the years. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_ChDCS_z2o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_ChDCS_z2o Her favorite word? Mad.
- eurasiantiger 4y agoThis cat can communicate not only specific wants, but feelings and abstract concepts such as the passing of time. She also likes to plan her play and cuddles ahead of time and will remind her owner with ”later” if it’s not yet that time.
- jelliclesfarm 4y agoThere is a lot of ‘wild’ left even in domesticated cats compared to dogs. Any animal that still retains the instinct to hunt for survival has to be intelligent. Since the time of pyramids and pharaohs, cats have remained wild and have domesticated the humans. What we now know as domesticated cats have extra special set of skills..they know how to create and retain memories. They understand reward based stimuli. There has been enormous research done in the field of cat genetics. UC Davis leads with the cat genetics lab and esp for their work on cat coat genetics. But we also know what genes changed and evolved for their intelligence as they morphed from feral to domestic. The most relevant one to intelligence are glutamate receptors that aids learning and memory. Domesticated animals have evolved to developed more coat variations and pigmentations than wild animals. This is why you don’t find a calico tiger but not only are there calico cats, but we also know that their genes guarantee that almost all are also female. Male calicos are sterile and short lived. It is in the area of cat coat genetics that UC Davis VGL has made enormous strides. There are five key traits that facilitate domestication and one of them is the wide variability in pigmentation/texture of coats. Even though cats have been around humans, they were allowed to be ‘wild’ and have resisted the intense pressure to adapt for full on domestication. In a way, they have been more useful in agrarian societies in their undomesticated state and largely due to their hunting instincts…..which once tamed and trained is no longer as effective. Hunting rodents is a far different job that herding docile domesticated sheep.
- eternalban 4y ago> Since the time of pyramids and pharaohs, cats have remained wild and have domesticated the humans. It certainly appears that way. Dignity in domestication. Psychologically, cats seem to have a very healthy sense of self-respect.
- jelliclesfarm 4y ago[..] Cats, as a class, have never completely got over the snootiness caused by the fact that in Ancient Egypt they were worshipped as gods.[..] - P.G.Wodehouse. All of my favourite authors are cat slaves.. notably adore their extensive cat quotes..Heinlein, Mark Twain..and of course, P.G.Wodehouse and not to forget the illustrator of my namesakes..Edward Gorey And of course, even Spock approved.
- can16358p 4y agoAgreed with the article. Also I was slightly disappointed with my cat when I thought her to look into inside the house and meow at something for months as speaking to something that I can't see, only to realize that she was seeing reflection of some birds on a light pole and was talking to them, thinking that they are inside the house.
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- OtomotO 4y agoCounterquestion: how intelligent is Homo Sapiens Sapiens, the self-proclaimed crown of creation? I was a biology nerd before I became an IT nerd and during my (non scientific) studies I found that many species are way more intelligent than what we give them credit for. When I studied at university (discontinued, switched to IT) I also found evidence to underline some of my personal findings.
- jIyajbe 4y agoEmo Phillips once said, "I used to think that the brain was the most important organ in my body; until I realized who was telling me that."
- 2wrist 4y agoMy dad suffered a head injury and afterwards, he could just sit, still, spaced out, in one place all day. At night he used to struggle. Our two cats decided to look after him, they used to snuggle him through the day, or harass him to go get food, or to open this door and that door, he used to be kept pretty active by them! At night they used to sleep close to/on him and if he woke they would stick their faces in his and just purr at him. They gave him so much comfort. After he passed, they now do this with my mum. In the mornings they will wake her up by licking her forehead, ever so gently. I guess you can read in to their behaviour what you will, but to us it feels like empathy. Not sure what we would do without them.
- rbanffy 4y agoNon-human emotions are an interesting topic and I’d expect the same perceived behaviour could come up from all sorts of different origins, but, as I have seen my friends (and myself) with mammals, birds, reptiles, fish, and spiders that live with humans and their behaviours, I’m not surprised to conclude they have their own emotions. When I was in high-school, I had a fish, a Banded knifefish, who welcomed me home every afternoon by standing upright on its tail by whatever side of the aquarium I was. I gave it food at the end of a stick and played games where it would hunt the food. If sometimes, if I stopped moving the stick it’d come to my side of the aquarium and stare at me until the stick started moving again.
- TedDoesntTalk 4y agoThat’s an amazing story about the fish. I had no idea. Thanks for sharing.
- rbanffy 4y agoI strongly suspect predators need to be smarter so they can be more effective. Either that, or I just had an extremely weird fish.
- dralley 4y agoThere was a widespread video of a cat trying to save it's owner from "drowning" in the bathtub https://youtu.be/Y1GMlXuvdic https://youtu.be/Y1GMlXuvdic
- andrewinardeer 4y agoCats are master manipulators and if you have been chosen by one (or more) to feed and shelter them according to their desires you will know this. In the hierarchy of your home atop sits the feline. They generally do what they please when they decide to do so. And they know it. How many people in your household can say they have this unbridled freedom? Once you realise that the cat(s) in your abode and life have the luxury to pick and choose their course of action, or lack of it, at their whim the more you understand that they rule and occasionally oversee and direct proceedings. In my house the cat runs the show. Then my wife. Then my two dogs and then me. I'm sure others on here can relate.
- eric4smith 4y agoCats are oriented towards hunting and killing. In that regard they are seriously intelligent. Anything else they are not very intelligent. Let’s not make cat videos confuse us.
- vertnerd 4y agoIt's all about the yardstick we use for measuring intelligence, isn't it? For years, my rescue cat has had an annoying habit of gently plucking at my clothes with her claws for no apparent reason. Then one day I had an epiphany. I discovered that scritching the top of her head made her stop plucking my clothes. Now she gets head scritches whenever she wants. So from her perspective I am thoroughly stupid, yet capable of learning simple tricks given enough repetition and reinforcement.
- unfocussed_mike 4y agoI am one of those people who had one view before a youtube video and another view after. We had cats when I was a kid, and I would observe that cats are very good at tracking prey, at opening doors or at getting humans to open them, at figuring out who is the boss, and at bearing very, very long term grudges, but otherwise they operate in a system where the world revolves around them (apparently quite literally in terms of how they map the world). This utility-focussed view of the world means they always get fed, but it also leads them to get stuck when exploring -- never paying attention to the fact that the neighbour's garage door does not just open, it also closes, for example! So I have tended to see them as well-optimised, intelligent, but not necessarily "bright". But the cat-mirror-ears video -- where a cat sees a reflection in a mirror, apparently understands that it is its own reflection and then... realises it has ears... that changed my mind. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akE2Sgg8hI8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akE2Sgg8hI8 There is another "cat theory of mind" video where a mother cat purposefully and deliberately retrieves an object its kitten wants to play with, that scientists have talked about on twitter, but I can't find it. A friend of mine has a cat that learned to play fetch as a kitten and never stopped playing. So unusual.
- unfocussed_mike 4y agoIncidentally the greatest moment in this video is not the "oh... that's what those are" moment, looking in the mirror. The greatest moment is the head-turn and the wide-eyed look on her face as she is sitting down. Like: "oh this changes everything".
- agumonkey 4y ago"How am I gonna tell the others.."
- unixhero 4y agoDoes this self awareness mean cats have evolved now? Does this hold any consequence? Genuinely curious. I did not study any biology, so I don't know where this leads us.
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- duckydude20 4y agohow can we measure other species intelligence when we can't ours... we can't and we shouldn't, every test which states it measures intelligence is dysfunctional... Loved it... http://messybeast.com/intelligence.htm#:~:text=Humans%20often%20define,an%20instinctive%20response http://messybeast.com/intelligence.htm#:~:text=Humans%20ofte...
- goldenkey 4y agoOne of the major problems is that we haven't broken down IQ into its actual basis. Working memory and reaction speed are two psychometrics highly correlated to IQ. But someone can easily be gifted in one but not the other. A conventional IQ test would not recognize this.
- steveBK123 4y agoIn the days of mini-cassette operating phone answering machines.. We had a cat who liked the sound of peoples voices. It took us a while to figure out what was happening as we'd have missed messages but one day in my tweens when I was home alone but too busy gaming to answer the phone I observed the following: * Phone ringing, getting on towards 3-4 rings * Cat sprinting down the stairs, jumps up onto bookshelf and waits * Cat listens to the machine pick up the caller and the message they leave * Caller hangs up and the cassettes go all clickety-clack * Cat then reaches with his paw around the bookshelf to smack the big blue button * Message plays back again and is now marked read, light goes out, and no one knows we were left a message Over the years we saw him do this a number of times! Once he hit the wrong button and overwrote the outgoing message with the sound of himself purring.
- dghughes 4y agoI think a cat's brain would be a great model for intelligent robots. Pattern recognition is what they do well but their brains are better at detecting moment more than anything for humans it's colours. My cat knows when it's 9pm since that is treat time. She can be sound asleep but at 8:59pm I hear thump thump as she hops down from her sleeping spot. It's not that she is detecting me doing something. I watch streaming video at random times stopping and starting it. There is no obvious cue that I can think of that is allowing her to know the time. Not even sunlight is a cue since the light is wildly different here due to being on the 49th parallel and the seasons. She even adjusts for daylight savings and standard time but it takes about a week.
- rpmisms 4y agoI currently own the stupidest cat I've ever seen, but I previously had a very clever cat that I got from my in-laws. It could obey commands, figure out patterns, etc. However, my dog is orders of magnitude smarter, and has taught herself: - Lying. She barks "at the mailman" about 10 minutes before he arrives, so I'll put her out when he's in the area - Mirrors. She understands that her reflection is only a reflection, and will look at herself to see if her fur is ruffled on her hindquarters - Language. Dogs are often taught to communicate with buttons that trigger a word. The conventional wisdom is that it takes a dog about a week to learn to use them. She taught herself 5 separate buttons in 20 minutes, and uses them to this day, chaining them together to express her thoughts remarkably clearly. For example, she used "no" + "time for bed" in the morning when I hadn't refilled her water yet. But that's why dogs are so popular: they're calibrated to our psyche. They understand human gestures incredibly well.
- xyzzy21 4y agoOne of my dogs used to "lie" - he knew he wasn't suppose to be on the sofa. But he'd always push boundaries and try anyway like a human child. As soon as he'd hear you approaching the room, he'd just off (he was a no-fur dog). What gave away his game was that sometimes his hind leg didn't quite get off the sofa. It was like a kid that took cookies for the cookie jar, even managed to get it back where it was supposed to be but then left obvious crumbs.
- kizer 4y agoI think one of the articles shared here recently mentioned that dogs are the best animal proxy model for understanding mental illness due to their similarity to humans. Dogs' domestication is the oldest by far of any living mammal. I believe that canines and humans had similar basic social structures and that eased their integration. Dogs are basically a humanized species.
- edzillion 4y agoThere has been some fascinating work on human canine coevolution over the past years - I read a paper (sorry can't locate it now) that claimed that humans developed such distinct pupils due to it being so useful to survival for dogs to be able to see which direction a human is looking, for example in a hunting context. That one blew my mind.
- midrus 4y agoMy cat is the smarter cat ever. It managed to train me very well.
- taosx 4y agoI don't know about Intelligent but I had a cat that was bringing me mice every so often in the morning and was knocking the door for like 10 minutes with her back leg! The first time I got scared cause I didn't want the mouse to get in the house and I didn't know who was knocking on the door but I think it was half-dead...oh yeah I forgot to mention that all the mice were still alive. I'll never understand that behavior..she was well fed.
- sva_ 4y agoSome say it is their way of showing appreciation.
- jsz0 4y agoMost animals are smarter than we give them credit for. What they are lacking in is intellect and the ability to understand events that occur over longer periods or time. For example a cat isn't planning its meals for next week but it's smart as hell when it wants a meal right now.
- jokoon 4y agoI often think intelligence is an anthropo-centered definition, and even then, intelligence is often badly defined for mathematics.
- coward123 4y agoI have a cat who will deliberately create a diversion so that she can steal my chair. I know when she’s doing it, but I go along anyway because it’s fun. The first time I saw her do this, it involved pushing the lift button on the motorized standing desk. I stood up, she jumped into my seat. She does similar tricks with other chairs around the house.
- chrischen 4y agoThat could be Just a pavlovian response, unless she is creating different diversions every time.
- xivzgrev 4y agoOur cat does something similar to wake us up. When he wants to do this, he looks for something that can make a lot of noise with minimal effort. It might be something crinkly, or something that can be dropped, or a rug that can be scratched. So we aim to prevent this by inspecting the area prior to bed, is there anything like that out? The cat, then, surprises us sometimes by finding new objects he has not previously used, or out of sight. A recent example was finding a plastic bag in a crevice. Touché
- kingcharles 4y agoMy dog has made the same realization. He's figured out if he knocks something that makes a lot of noise I'll come running to find out what is going on. One of my cats is a whole another level though. Yesterday I saw he'd figured out that he can hold a Tupperware container between his front paws and then use his teeth to pry the lid off. Jerk!
- bitwize 4y agoIt could be, but given how complex cat brains are, it probably isn't. I've seen my cat attempt to plot a route into my home office (which is off limits to him) with his eyes. The last tricky bit is finding a way to get on top of the HVAC piping to jump off to the high (unglassed) window leading into my office. If he can solve that, he's in -- and he knows it.
- ddaalluu2 4y agoOn the side, what I love about this page is that there is no styling, no share this, no comments, no cookie banners or similar "paywalls", no other distractions. Just content. It's so refreshing.
- blacklion 4y agoI've read, that theory about "alpha male with alpha female in wolf pack" is disproved, as this behavior is seen only in captivity. Also, claim that cats are breed only for appearance is not completely true, in villages good rat-catchers will breed and not-so-good rat-catchers will have their litters drown.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- Epiphany21 4y agoMore intelligent than anyone gives them credit for. I have a couple I let them roam around outside in my garden where they'll wander through the pathways and stop to sniff every individual fruit, vegetable and flower near the edge, as if they're appreciating my work. Most of the stuff in my garden is flat out inedible to them and poses no threat. They're just enjoying the scenery.
- 5350-uiop-1130 4y agoI've seen those instagram/tiktok(?) videos where a cat owner will put some kind of weird face filter, and the cat will slowly look up at its owner in shock/disgust/curiosity. It convinced me that cats are aware of themselves as reflections on a camera or mirror and are much smarter than I thought. To realise something was wrong with their owners face.
- dmix 4y agoGetting an HTTPS error in Firefox: https://archive.ph/Mbufh https://archive.ph/Mbufh
- robwwilliams 4y agoSarah, OP: What a great summary! I learned a lot from these two long pages. Appreciate with some reservations this lead: “I personally consider these experiments cruel and gratuitous (their medical benefit to humans is too often dubious) and though some such experiments are referenced here, Messybeast.com does not support this form of experimentation.” I understand the political context of starting this way, and as a cat lover it resonates too easily even with me. But in essentially all western-eastern-northern-southern societies (modern or ancient) that routinely kill and eat such clever beasts as cows, pigs, monkeys, horses, sheep, goats, bunny rabbits, octopi, and all manner of birds, I wonder if “gratuitous and cruel” are the right words. And this wuestion is especially relevant when, as you admit, so much of your cool overview relies on that scientific work. This is cognitive dissonance at its best—-well intentioned but still unrooted. Too “woke” for me. I would say no: You cannot have this particular cake and eat it too! And definitely not true the this “gratuitous and cruel” work was either gratuitous and cruel or that it has not contributed greatly to clinical care of humans. It has. Half of what we know (a bit rhetorical) about brain plasticity and repair following brain damage comes from exactly this type of work. It is intellectually disingenuous to be squeamish, even if a cat lover, if you then use these finding. And if one is NOT also a strict vegetarian, then please stay silent—-you have no standing in this court of ethical conundrums.
- nineparts 4y agoI am firmly convinced that all technology which you (and people who think like you) acquired after making contact with Western Civilization needs to be confiscated from you. Cannibals should have no rights.
- bredren 4y agoI moderate /r/adventurecats, which focuses on leash training of house cats. I started leash training my cat at about 6 months and he is 4.5 years old now. People are regularly astonished to see a cat content on a leash at all. But what’s amazing is how much preference, analysis, and decision making you see a cat demonstrate when you spend so much time with them.
- hbarka 4y agoI’m amazed by my cat’s stalking instincts. I play hide and seek with her indoors and she will outflank me more than I can outflank her majority of the time. When I think I have the surprise on her she’ll be behind and I’m sure thinking to herself how easy this human is.
- djaychela 4y agoI had three cats when I was younger, and one of them was one who just turned up one day and decided to move in. He had many funny traits, but the best one was if you put down food he didn't like, he wouldn't just not eat it, he would mime that he was burying it, (like they do their poo), as if he was saying "this is crap" to you. He would look at you as he did this, and then walk off. I don't know if this is what he meant, but I thought it was hilarious.
- irrational 4y agoWe provide them with food, shelter, toys, medical care, etc. and they provide us with indifference. Seems pretty smart to me.
- diamondage 4y agoThere is Pavlov's dog study but you never hear about Pavlov's cats...funniest comedy by Eddie Izzard: https://youtu.be/lf9Jy9JQgnY https://youtu.be/lf9Jy9JQgnY
- derefr 4y agoHypothesis: cats have a mental architecture — brain hardware — that's amenable to learning as much as that of any other mammal with a cortex; but they don't come with instinctive knowledge of certain mental schemas — brain Operating System software, essentially — required for social intelligence. Those mental schemas instead have to be taught/communicated. - Have you ever seen a "cat raised by dogs"? They develop the same mental schemas around socialization that dogs do; begin to understand the sort of "pack" structure and reward norms that dogs think in terms of; and so end up trainable exactly like dogs, using e.g. social-status gratification/reassurance as a substitute for food. And often, you won't actually have to explicitly train a "cat raised by dogs"; cats are seemingly highly skilled at modelling (i.e. witnessing others earning rewards for a behavior, and then self-motivatedly learning to mimic that behavior), and so a cat that hangs around trained dogs may teach themselves "tricks" it observes the dogs doing. - Have you ever seen a cat taught human language using AAC (Augmentative and Alternative Communication) devices, a.k.a. "button training"? They can very quickly absorb human mental schemas, learning to not just to favor "using their words" to signal their needs, but also, through that, to begin modelling the world narratively, telling stories about what they witnessed other-person A doing to other-person B. If you communicate the terms "soon" and "later" to them, they will begin asking about the future, expressing a curiosity about whether events (e.g. a person coming home from work) will happen near or far in time. These are not things that cats seem to instinctively think about, until they have the mental schemas to think about them; but once they absorb these schemas, they do engage with these topics!
- userabchn 4y agoMy cat jumps up to pull down on the handle of closed doors that she wants to open, then pulls the slightly open door with her paw so she can go through. When the front door is locked she finds which room I am in and scratches at the door (I keep the doors closed) until I come, then encourages me to follow her to the front door so that I can unlock it for her.
- reiichiroh 4y agoJust in time for Caturday
- rybosworld 4y agoCats are capable of more than they seem. I've spent time around many different dogs and cats (and other critters) when I worked at a vet clinic. I'd say that the cleverest of cats were almost on par with the cleverest of dogs. But the average dog is much more clever than the average cat. Cats also have a lot less interest in problem solving. There was one cat who lived permanently at the clinic. She would be crated every night before we left. She would often get out of her crate and we'd find her roaming around the clinic the next morning. The cage required that you press two pins towards each other. It's surprising that she figured this out but also that she had the dexterity to reach outside the cage and do this. She was one of the smartest animals I've ever interacted with. You could see the gears in her head turning when she wanted to figure something out.
- JoeAltmaier 4y agoI'm reminded of a Feynman story about rats in mazes. Their senses enable them to cue in on a dozen things that human maze-builders miss. So the humans misinterpret what ques they use to solve the puzzles, and publish erroneous conclusions.
- arwhatever 4y agoAnecdote, but I met a random cat on a neighborhood sidewalk in a random town and stopped to love on him for a moment. When I would walk away, several times he would anticipate my path and run in front of me and lay down to block my path, apparently to receive some more affection. I’ve had some super affectionate and at least not-dumb cats, but I was still really surprised by this guy’s apparent intentionality. And all for affection - it’s not like I’d had any cat treats on me to give him.
- GWBullshit 4y agoDepends on who you ask. In some intelligence circles cats are referred to as "St. Up ID" aka "St. Uppity" because they always like to show your their asses ... almost as if they're begging for some sort of trophy or something. On the other hand ... over time, cats have developed mice/Rat & human mind-altering poop: https://www.nbcnews.com/healthmain/cat-poop-parasite-controls-minds-early-permanently-study-finds-4b11194722 https://www.nbcnews.com/healthmain/cat-poop-parasite-control... ... leading to incidents such as: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQ4Y27RQaZk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQ4Y27RQaZk <== notice none of the cats manage to "eat The Rat" aka The Emperor: https://www.trendstees.com/product/emperor-pikachu-t-shirt/ https://www.trendstees.com/product/emperor-pikachu-t-shirt/ ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bhDAJUk-vU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bhDAJUk-vU https://quinzo.wordpress.com/2011/12/01/shocking-german-bishops-refuse-to-shake-hands-with-the-pope/ https://quinzo.wordpress.com/2011/12/01/shocking-german-bish... Same video (shorter), with Russian comment-a-Ri: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPK_ij0llc8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPK_ij0llc8 ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTt4k3lh9Gc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTt4k3lh9Gc Here is another famous scene from Belgium: https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/world-news/cat-instant-karma-attack-rat-16818567 https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/world-news/cat-instant-karm... So basically, cats poop, Ratz eats the SH!I.T. code, becomes fearless, cat attacks what it assumes is free food and learns a lesson: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uSfLDuRtOM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uSfLDuRtOM https://theintercept.com/2016/11/16/the-nsas-spy-hub-in-new-york-hidden-in-plain-sight/ https://theintercept.com/2016/11/16/the-nsas-spy-hub-in-new-... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZulOGB9yXlY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZulOGB9yXlY <== starts off with "cocaine" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Bv4KGhtFt4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Bv4KGhtFt4 <== Cocaine Marley fought with the Crips because she got jumped in; she's "Big Blue" ... has "Lincoln Tunnel-vision" and "rolls like a marble" ... Early example of a PHD candidate's example of Ai: https://www.macintoshrepository.org/6008-sumo https://www.macintoshrepository.org/6008-sumo ... https://tenor.com/view/obviously-defective-tomax-xamot-gi-joe-a-real-american-hero-theres-no-place-like-springfield-gif-17530482 https://tenor.com/view/obviously-defective-tomax-xamot-gi-jo... ... unless you keep insisting on playing it ... then it gets harder exponentially quickly at the later levels ... At "2:48" is the NSA/Se Cutey Ri's opinion of MSM: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXKOIKBCC8c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXKOIKBCC8c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dS4RpBR0Zn0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dS4RpBR0Zn0 https://giphy.com/gifs/IntoAction-eH4H6NP5XePcxnO6wU https://giphy.com/gifs/IntoAction-eH4H6NP5XePcxnO6wU https://www.theguardian.com/world/2000/oct/14/freedomofinformation.uk https://www.theguardian.com/world/2000/oct/14/freedomofinfor... https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/fbi-reveals-its-suspicions-that-robert-maxwell-was-a-soviet-spy-9f6h3x3zz9b https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/fbi-reveals-its-suspicion... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Bortnikov#:~:text=Alexander%20Vasilyevich%20Bortnikov%20(Russian%3A%20%D0%90%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%81a%D0%BD%D0%B4%D1%80,Service%20(FSB)%20since%202008 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Bortnikov#:~:text=Al.... http://thealexandernj.net/ http://thealexandernj.net/ Front view: https://tenor.com/view/voltron-linkup-gettogether-gif-5610318 https://tenor.com/view/voltron-linkup-gettogether-gif-561031... aka "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFN3l2NuoE0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFN3l2NuoE0" Top view from outer space: https://www.amazon.com/Lolita-Jeremy-Irons/dp/B00001IVFG https://www.amazon.com/Lolita-Jeremy-Irons/dp/B00001IVFG This is a random scene from the film: https://voltamagazine.wordpress.com/2020/11/02/decoding-the-lolita-aesthetic/ https://voltamagazine.wordpress.com/2020/11/02/decoding-the-... This is a bizarre random movie theater closing of a place that had some great reviews on Yelp ... yet closed for "undisclosed business circumstances": https://www.google.com/search?q=edgewater+multiplex+closing&oq=edgewater+multiplex+closing&aqs=chrome..69i57j0i22i30.4572j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 https://www.google.com/search?q=edgewater+multiplex+closing&... https://www.pcgamesn.com/the-outer-worlds/the-outer-worlds-combat https://www.pcgamesn.com/the-outer-worlds/the-outer-worlds-c... It had great cheap ticket rates and even cheaper matinee rates ... Unfortunately, messing around with the National "Se Cuty Ri" Agency is a very expensive proposition: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPn82XZgTMA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPn82XZgTMA https://tenor.com/view/super-milk-chan-anime-adult-swim-gif-13901199 https://tenor.com/view/super-milk-chan-anime-adult-swim-gif-... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQW2FFt3-A8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQW2FFt3-A8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGQvlx4LDqg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGQvlx4LDqg https://tenor.com/view/i-got-a-solution-idiocracy-solution-terry-crews-gif-17381101 https://tenor.com/view/i-got-a-solution-idiocracy-solution-t... https://www.google.com/search?q=donald+rumsfeld+smile&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&vet=1&fir=TBcTMy6BkSXhgM%252CE_tK_fYHYonMiM%252C_%253B4lWw48WAkygFHM%252ChhDzRXN1XtJZ8M%252C_%253B1EEhLh4P3RE3cM%252Ci6jNpszAI7eoeM%252C_%253BvqJhe0TQ5dB_2M%252Ca9n7wYk3Uz5LEM%252C_%253BSS1kueuDAfDG5M%252CmdwOTQ3_5z58UM%252C_%253Bm0ra3RrcZBk-UM%252CwVtUrwlcv_siUM%252C_%253BbFRhyBZT8ZLrXM%252C8Pw18Mw-4wXrNM%252C_%253BpPmHoMUseLWfwM%252Cf3MZnE1zLgIEnM%252C_%253BVtRHfj09R_NqZM%252CwVtUrwlcv_siUM%252C_%253Bi22grOi9ELbSyM%252CYqMXGuUCabL4CM%252C_%253BQtWbLSK7epyA3M%252Ci6jNpszAI7eoeM%252C_%253BOh4qX_a0_aYaUM%252CtygNhVyuLjXJNM%252C_&usg=AI4_-kQv-XIOJHHF4p4coa7hVhJpTUOpjA&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiC_r_Mhor3AhWgjYkEHUnRD2gQ9QF6BAgdEAE#imgrc=m0ra3RrcZBk-UM https://www.google.com/search?q=donald+rumsfeld+smile&tbm=is... This is what Donald Rumsfeld was trying to give endless clues about what "Pentagon" is a "Ran MAGA/Anagram/Spell-s-witch" about (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-9169611/Rihanna-takes-trash-post-hashtag-did-Joe-Biden-sworn-in.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-9169611/Rihann...): https://www.yahoo.com/video/pentagon-35-trillion-accounting-black-231154593.html https://www.yahoo.com/video/pentagon-35-trillion-accounting-... https://tenor.com/view/destro-marvel-animated-such-bottomless-stupidity-stupid-gif-17721964 https://tenor.com/view/destro-marvel-animated-such-bottomles...
- anthomtb 4y agoMy cat tells me when she wants to play. She will scratch a specific spot on our engineered wood floor where the top layer is flaking off. As I have no desire to replace a piece of flooring in the middle of the room, this action gets an near instant toss of whatever toy is nearby. Interesting that female cats form more social, cooperative groups. I wonder if this explains why our female cat seems more sociable and human while our male cat is more aloof.
- gedy 4y agoIn the middle of the night, my cat will sometimes open the bathroom towel cabinet. Couldn't understand why until I realized it's a couple feet from the garage door on same wall, and he's actually attempting to go in garage to use the litter box.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- squarefoot 4y agoOne of our cats waits when my girlfriend and I are at the dinner table, then leans against the table with two legs, touches my GF arm with one of his paws and sometimes emits a meow incredibly similar to what in a local dialect translates to "hey!" which probably he already heard a thousand times from us. That's his way to tell us he wants some of our food, and he doesn't stop until he gets some. Not that it counts as a sign of intelligence, anyway I was able to teach the other cat to shake "hands". To me the sign that cats are definitely intelligent is their ability to make us think so whether they are or not:).
- praptak 4y agoMy mom's cat did not do anything super smart but she made me feel dumb. She would walk over and start talking - almost literally. Her trills and mews vere so varied in pitch and length that it sounded like speech. And she responded when we talked to her. This made me feel dumb, because I obviously couldn't understand what she'd talk about. Well except that one time she detected a leak in the central heating and alerted me to it.
- kwhitefoot 4y ago> Whereas dogs have been bred for utility, cats have been bred solely for appearance. This strikes me as a dubious statement. Or perhaps I am reading more into it than is really there. Perhaps it was true a hundred or more years ago, but now it seems to me that dogs are overwhelmingly bred for appearance.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- Liambp 4y agoCan anyone give me a TLDR of this? I think it is saying that "Just cause cats don't act like humans doesn't mean they aren't smart" but its very long and doesn't have a decent summary so I am not sure.
- astrostl 4y ago> DATA ANALYSIS Two cats (1 male neutered, 6 years old, 1 female neutered 2 years old) hid during the entire test and this data was not included ahahahahhaha this one from another part of the site is great. Love the content, love the '90s hypersimple design. I gave her a donation and she quickly sent me back a personal note.