13 ms·

Isn’t this the sort of thing that would normally have made it to the first page here a while ago? Just asking, I’ve never used any of their products

throwawayboise 5y ago
Haven't used any Altassian stuff for a few years but when I last did it was all self-hosted. IDK how many shops still do that.
- Corrado 5y ago
  From what I understand, Atlassian is pushing hard to move everyone to their cloud offerings. I think the only way to run on-prem stuff now is to use the Enterprise or Data Center offerings, which are stupid expensive.
  - jimbob45 5y ago
    How has no one open-sourced a competing product by now? It feels like the universe where Git was never invented and everyone stayed subscribed to Perforce. Are executives just scared of getting fired for moving off of Azure DevOps and Jira? They’re both garbage pieces of software and everyone who uses them knows it.
    - astrea 5y ago
      Because Atlassian pulled a Microsoft and made sure everyone had already irreplaceably adopted their products into their workflows before they made this move.
    - bombcar 5y ago
      Confluence is unmatched in the niche it is in - if you compare feature for feature many wikis seem comparable; but the amount of addons for Confluence is stupid high, and many do weird little things that are really helpful for business.
    - poink 5y ago
      I think the reason nobody open sources a competitor is because most people in a position to develop such a thing don’t think the solution to the overarching problems the Atlassian tools supposedly solve is a similar suite of tools. I’ve learned to translate “We need to buy into Atlassian’s suite” as “our process is broken and we’re blaming the tools.” This has the standard “now you have two problems” punchline. I’ve seen this play out several times at companies of varying sizes. The endgame “fix” is always that one or more people become entirely devoted to wrangling the complexities of the Atlassian stuff, but a dedicated person/team would have fixed the problem with the old tools, too.
    - thombles 5y ago
      As far as Confluence competitors go, in the vicinity of 2010 there was a lovely MediaWiki fork called DekiWiki (later MindTouch Core). It was easy to set up and use, fast, WYSIWYG editing, attachments. Unfortunately Mindtouch (the company) pivoted into- well, I never quite understood what, but it didn't involve developing deki and it became defunct. It would have been very interesting to see where it stacked up today if it was kept alive.
  - kstrauser 5y ago
    And here, “stupid expensive” means $42K/yr: https://www.atlassian.com/software/jira/pricing?tab=data-center https://www.atlassian.com/software/jira/pricing?tab=data-cen... Yeah, no.
    - timbuchwaldt 5y ago
      7$/user/month is pretty reasonable IMHO. Of course only for companies with 500 users. But even if you buy the 500 seat package for 100 users it's just 35$/user/month, compared to normal engineering salaries this is absolutely negligible.
      - polski-g 5y ago
        It's not reasonable to post your company trade secrets on a third party, internet-accessible server.
- Sparkle-san 5y ago
  Every place I've worked self hosts and my current company still does. While EOL is still aways away for server (2/2024), it's gonna be a dark day when it arrives.
  - zaps 5y ago
    In enterprise timescales, 2/2024 is not as “aways away” as you think.
acd10j 5y ago
Consider yourself fortunate, you were spared pain of using JIRA and Confluence
- charles_f 5y ago
  What are the pains of using Jira and confluence?
  - lifthrasiir 5y ago
    Slow, complex (in terms of feature), painful (in terms of UX)---pick any three.
    - WantonQuantum 5y ago
      Inconsistent user experience between the products. “Oh this is Jira so I can’t use those formatting options that I use in confluence.”
      - chrisweekly 5y ago
        It's worse than that; even within Jira the editing contexts are completely inconsistent. And the cache behavior is apparently nondeterministic. It boggles my mind that such awful UX is tolerated in software used in so many companies. It's like Atlassian put all its eggs in the "crack the enterprise sales code" basket, met wild success, and that was all they were capable of. If my job required me to work in Confluence and Jira all day I'd change my job or my career.
  - dzhiurgis 5y ago
    Rage inducing formatting
  - zemo 5y ago
    Jira requires a person to tailor it to your org. It can be pretty good if you have people who configure it correctly and have a workflow that suits your team/org, but that's kinda the problem: making Jira be good is a full time job. Confluence is just a terrible experience overall. Terrible editing, terrible browsing, terrible search. I've used both at multiple orgs, I've seen Jira be good, I've never seen Confluence be good.
justin_oaks 5y ago
I would have thought so, but I think it's because people have low expectations of Atlassian that it hasn't gained traction. In ranking companies by "Ugh, your product sucks" many people would put Atlassian pretty high. So if their product sucks, why would their cloud infrastructure be better?
- omegalulw 5y ago
  Wait, do people really have a low reputation of Atlassian? The picture o had in mind was that that pay top $$$, are remote friendly, etc. I would have expected their stuff to be much better...
  - pm90 5y ago
    No they suck. Like really really suck. JIRA is shitty, slow and unintuitive. Confluence somehow makes me hate writing any documentation (which I generally like doing).
  - justinclift 5y ago
    Yeah, they don't have a good reputation. Not as bad as Oracle (eg "literally evil"), but probably half way there. :) Their software is "enterprise software", in all the bad ways. eg expensive, slow performance, doesn't work properly, products that don't seem to receive updates after their creating company was acquired (eg StatusPage), etc. But they have a marketing/PR department, which covers over a lot of those problems.
  - Too 5y ago
    It’s loved by managers (the ones deciding to buy the product) because it looks shiny and it can auto generate burndown charts. For anyone actually trying to work with it on a daily basis is a huge pain in the ass. Mostly due to the dreadful performance, which was bed enough with the on prem solutions and has now gotten even worse on cloud. Another wtf example is their wysiwyg editor actually has no own markup, it is stored as plain html and has tons of bugs, such that things you edit will return in a different format after you press save, with no way to restore it. This is just so fundamental input form 101 that you wonder what else is equally buggy underneath, especially this being one of their main values. Every one of their product uses a different such editor, all with their own set of different bugs. Otherwise, you can’t deny that their products are actually very powerful. If only they cared more about basic usability they could have a really good offering.
MBCook 5y ago
I’ve seen the outage mentioned here a few times, but maybe that was in the new queue and it never made it to the front page.
orev 5y ago
The main thing with Atlassian is they royally screwed over all their customers by discontinuing their most popular product and forcing everyone to cloud using really, really unsavory tactics. The only product remaining you can use without cloud had its price increased by an order of magnitude. And, they offered a discount to on-prem customers who signed up for it, and after the fact announced a price increase at least equal to the discount they were offering. They have decided to treat their customers worse than Oracle does, with nothing but threats that you can make the pain stop if you just go with cloud. They’re an absolutely despicable company. So after enduring all this, there’s a huge amount of schadenfreude that customers are experiencing watching them be down for so long. They absolutely deserve it.
- stevage 5y ago
  What was the discontinued most popular product? Hipchat? That was pretty terrible by modern standards.
  - sam_bristow 5y ago
    Orev may be referring to Atlassian sunsetting their Server products. You now have either Cloud or Datacenter ($$$) as your only options.
  - IceWreck 5y ago
    On-premise for Jira, confluence, etc. You can't self host now, just use their cloud offerings.
    - blokey 5y ago
      You can self-host, that’s the data center versions. Upside, it’s the same code just difference license file, and it enables clustering (plus lots of other artificially limited features) Downside, it’s a subscription license and it’s insanely expensive.
- contingencies 5y ago
  Never fear: these funds are being directed to critically useful tasks of an earth-shattering priority like building a wooden skyscraper.
notatoad 5y ago
they're maybe down for some people, or some of the time, but they're not totally down. i've definitely been using bitbucket and jira for the last four days without noticing anything wrong.
throwawayffffas 5y ago
I do think I saw this in the front page 3 days ago.

throwawayboise 5y ago

Haven't used any Altassian stuff for a few years but when I last did it was all self-hosted. IDK how many shops still do that.

Corrado 5y ago
From what I understand, Atlassian is pushing hard to move everyone to their cloud offerings. I think the only way to run on-prem stuff now is to use the Enterprise or Data Center offerings, which are stupid expensive.
- jimbob45 5y ago
  How has no one open-sourced a competing product by now? It feels like the universe where Git was never invented and everyone stayed subscribed to Perforce. Are executives just scared of getting fired for moving off of Azure DevOps and Jira? They’re both garbage pieces of software and everyone who uses them knows it.
  - astrea 5y ago
    Because Atlassian pulled a Microsoft and made sure everyone had already irreplaceably adopted their products into their workflows before they made this move.
  - bombcar 5y ago
    Confluence is unmatched in the niche it is in - if you compare feature for feature many wikis seem comparable; but the amount of addons for Confluence is stupid high, and many do weird little things that are really helpful for business.
  - poink 5y ago
    I think the reason nobody open sources a competitor is because most people in a position to develop such a thing don’t think the solution to the overarching problems the Atlassian tools supposedly solve is a similar suite of tools. I’ve learned to translate “We need to buy into Atlassian’s suite” as “our process is broken and we’re blaming the tools.” This has the standard “now you have two problems” punchline. I’ve seen this play out several times at companies of varying sizes. The endgame “fix” is always that one or more people become entirely devoted to wrangling the complexities of the Atlassian stuff, but a dedicated person/team would have fixed the problem with the old tools, too.
  - thombles 5y ago
    As far as Confluence competitors go, in the vicinity of 2010 there was a lovely MediaWiki fork called DekiWiki (later MindTouch Core). It was easy to set up and use, fast, WYSIWYG editing, attachments. Unfortunately Mindtouch (the company) pivoted into- well, I never quite understood what, but it didn't involve developing deki and it became defunct. It would have been very interesting to see where it stacked up today if it was kept alive.
- kstrauser 5y ago
  And here, “stupid expensive” means $42K/yr: https://www.atlassian.com/software/jira/pricing?tab=data-center https://www.atlassian.com/software/jira/pricing?tab=data-cen... Yeah, no.
  - timbuchwaldt 5y ago
    7$/user/month is pretty reasonable IMHO. Of course only for companies with 500 users. But even if you buy the 500 seat package for 100 users it's just 35$/user/month, compared to normal engineering salaries this is absolutely negligible.
    - polski-g 5y ago
      It's not reasonable to post your company trade secrets on a third party, internet-accessible server.
Sparkle-san 5y ago
Every place I've worked self hosts and my current company still does. While EOL is still aways away for server (2/2024), it's gonna be a dark day when it arrives.
- zaps 5y ago
  In enterprise timescales, 2/2024 is not as “aways away” as you think.

acd10j 5y ago

Consider yourself fortunate, you were spared pain of using JIRA and Confluence

charles_f 5y ago
What are the pains of using Jira and confluence?
- lifthrasiir 5y ago
  Slow, complex (in terms of feature), painful (in terms of UX)---pick any three.
  - WantonQuantum 5y ago
    Inconsistent user experience between the products. “Oh this is Jira so I can’t use those formatting options that I use in confluence.”
    - chrisweekly 5y ago
      It's worse than that; even within Jira the editing contexts are completely inconsistent. And the cache behavior is apparently nondeterministic. It boggles my mind that such awful UX is tolerated in software used in so many companies. It's like Atlassian put all its eggs in the "crack the enterprise sales code" basket, met wild success, and that was all they were capable of. If my job required me to work in Confluence and Jira all day I'd change my job or my career.
- dzhiurgis 5y ago
  Rage inducing formatting
- zemo 5y ago
  Jira requires a person to tailor it to your org. It can be pretty good if you have people who configure it correctly and have a workflow that suits your team/org, but that's kinda the problem: making Jira be good is a full time job. Confluence is just a terrible experience overall. Terrible editing, terrible browsing, terrible search. I've used both at multiple orgs, I've seen Jira be good, I've never seen Confluence be good.

justin_oaks 5y ago

I would have thought so, but I think it's because people have low expectations of Atlassian that it hasn't gained traction. In ranking companies by "Ugh, your product sucks" many people would put Atlassian pretty high. So if their product sucks, why would their cloud infrastructure be better?

omegalulw 5y ago
Wait, do people really have a low reputation of Atlassian? The picture o had in mind was that that pay top $$$, are remote friendly, etc. I would have expected their stuff to be much better...
- pm90 5y ago
  No they suck. Like really really suck. JIRA is shitty, slow and unintuitive. Confluence somehow makes me hate writing any documentation (which I generally like doing).
- justinclift 5y ago
  Yeah, they don't have a good reputation. Not as bad as Oracle (eg "literally evil"), but probably half way there. :) Their software is "enterprise software", in all the bad ways. eg expensive, slow performance, doesn't work properly, products that don't seem to receive updates after their creating company was acquired (eg StatusPage), etc. But they have a marketing/PR department, which covers over a lot of those problems.
- Too 5y ago
  It’s loved by managers (the ones deciding to buy the product) because it looks shiny and it can auto generate burndown charts. For anyone actually trying to work with it on a daily basis is a huge pain in the ass. Mostly due to the dreadful performance, which was bed enough with the on prem solutions and has now gotten even worse on cloud. Another wtf example is their wysiwyg editor actually has no own markup, it is stored as plain html and has tons of bugs, such that things you edit will return in a different format after you press save, with no way to restore it. This is just so fundamental input form 101 that you wonder what else is equally buggy underneath, especially this being one of their main values. Every one of their product uses a different such editor, all with their own set of different bugs. Otherwise, you can’t deny that their products are actually very powerful. If only they cared more about basic usability they could have a really good offering.

MBCook 5y ago

I’ve seen the outage mentioned here a few times, but maybe that was in the new queue and it never made it to the front page.

orev 5y ago

The main thing with Atlassian is they royally screwed over all their customers by discontinuing their most popular product and forcing everyone to cloud using really, really unsavory tactics. The only product remaining you can use without cloud had its price increased by an order of magnitude. And, they offered a discount to on-prem customers who signed up for it, and after the fact announced a price increase at least equal to the discount they were offering. They have decided to treat their customers worse than Oracle does, with nothing but threats that you can make the pain stop if you just go with cloud. They’re an absolutely despicable company. So after enduring all this, there’s a huge amount of schadenfreude that customers are experiencing watching them be down for so long. They absolutely deserve it.

stevage 5y ago
What was the discontinued most popular product? Hipchat? That was pretty terrible by modern standards.
- sam_bristow 5y ago
  Orev may be referring to Atlassian sunsetting their Server products. You now have either Cloud or Datacenter ($$$) as your only options.
- IceWreck 5y ago
  On-premise for Jira, confluence, etc. You can't self host now, just use their cloud offerings.
  - blokey 5y ago
    You can self-host, that’s the data center versions. Upside, it’s the same code just difference license file, and it enables clustering (plus lots of other artificially limited features) Downside, it’s a subscription license and it’s insanely expensive.
contingencies 5y ago
Never fear: these funds are being directed to critically useful tasks of an earth-shattering priority like building a wooden skyscraper.

notatoad 5y ago

they're maybe down for some people, or some of the time, but they're not totally down. i've definitely been using bitbucket and jira for the last four days without noticing anything wrong.

throwawayffffas 5y ago

I do think I saw this in the front page 3 days ago.