32 ms·

Back to India

200 points by sdht0 5y ago

throwawaybner3 5y ago
- Issaclabs 5y ago
  What are you adding to the conversation with this comment? HN isn't the place for such remarks. Consider posting to the 100s of websites where comments like this are incentivised and not here.
gumby 5y ago
My cousin made the same move, though in his case he kept the same employer (for a few years). He’s much happier (in Mumbai, not Delhi). His brother, however, has been in the states for decades and I’m sure will never move back. So there is no magic answer. I keep telling myself I will move back to the country of my birth, but haven’t yet. The work here is too much fun.
- kwere 5y ago
  are there in india "comparable" life/quality jobs, if one doesnt want to start his/her startup?
  - gumby 5y ago
    Sure, if you want to work for a big multinational. I just looked at his LinkedIn and after he moved back he had the same job (Eng manager) remotely (this was about 15 years ago) but when he moved into management he switched to management and now running the Indian sub of a different multinational. We had lunch around the time he made the switch and he’d just dropped his kids off at tutoring then he went to pick them up from Judo after our meal, i.e, basically the same as if he’d stayed in New Jersey.
FlyingSnake 5y ago
Many more folks will be moving to India due the H1B visa regime, and we already are seeing lots of Indians moving in to Berlin Fri the USA. However it becomes harder to move back once you’ve school going kids and want them to have access to world class universities like TUM, MIT, OxBridge etc. Balaji Srinivasan is definitely a big India proponent and his latest session with Shane Parrish was really illuminating.
- sveme 5y ago
  It‘s interesting that the German work permit scheme seems to be much more liberal nowadays than the US one. I‘m just hiring a guy from Delhi and the process is pretty straightforward.
  - FlyingSnake 5y ago
    I regularly hire people from India at my current role, and the process is so much straightforward. There is a huge talent pool in India that is disillusioned with the US visa regime and Germany is benefiting greatly from this.
    - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
      Isn't lax immigration basically wage suppression on the local German workforce and a handout to the asset/business owning class? If you can basically hire anyone in the world instead of locals, then what leverage does the local workforce have to demand higher wages? Feels like a power imbalance that greatly benefits the employers, banks, real estate owners, retail businesses and the boreoarctic government apparatus, who all benefit from the increase population and consumers, but screws over the local workers who need to compete with a bigger talent pool for work and a bigger pool of tenants for rent and overburdened public services like childcare.
      - saidinesh5 5y ago
        It can be easier and cheaper to hire locally, compared to sponsoring a work visa to a foreigner. For highly skilled specialists, the minimum wage for a German work Visa is 56,800 EUR (EU Blue Card) and 44,304 EUR for shortage jobs. (1). So at an individual level, wage suppression might not always happen. (Back when I was offered jobs there, my colleagues there were earning less). That being said, at scale, the increased talent pool might indeed suppress the wages - especially in short term, but you never know about long term. Immigrants might start / help their own company provide jobs to more of the local talent. Not to mention other issues like falling birth rates vs. the economy, increased tax base, companies unable to afford local workforce temporarily (think early stage startups) etc.. Personally, I see skilled immigration as a net positive to the receiving country - only because I see the downsides of brain drain on the country those highly educated people are immigrating from. 1. https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/germany/visa/employment-visa/ https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/germany/visa/employment-vis...
newyankee 5y ago
This person is definitely very successful in his chosen realm. I would say I personally enjoyed moderate success in US after moving from an academic field to Tech. I moved to India before Covid as there was no realistic pathway to Green Card for me even after so many years (in reasonable timeframe) and I wanted to take a break from typical work and focus on personal life. I actually miss the US a lot and would've loved running a small business instead of some hyper successful startup. Alas not possible in a realistic sense because only way to be there is on the work visa. The reverse cultural shock is real and true even if you work remotely as I do.
hans1729 5y ago
I'd imagine moving back to India after being successful in the US gives you lots of leverage and status, in the sense of being a big fish in a smaller pool (what a beautiful irony, thinking of India of all places as the smaller pool, heh). But lets be real, isn't the quality of life much worse? I've never been there (or in the US, for that matter), but I'd imagine that things like infrastructure are far worse in India. Also, the country seems so... chaotic, the cultural shock must be crazy.
- throwaway158497 5y ago
  Many people somehow are able to overlook the lack of infrastructure and accident prone roads. Family+having access to maids, cooks, drivers, etc is a big driver of this behavior.
- vishnumohandas 5y ago
  I moved from Switzerland to India sometime back, for reasons similar to OP's. Here are my ₹2 > quality of life "Quality" is subjective. My wife and I value having our parents around, being able to afford a cook/maid/nanny, not having to deal with winter and darkness, ... > infrastructure For sure it's worse in India. But our lifestyle here is such that we don't have to deal with it frequently. We live next to friends, in a arguably beautiful society, and when we do need something done, we inevitably "know a guy who knows a guy", who can help sort things out without us having to deal with the subpar infra. But yes, for sure India could do a lot better on this front. > chaotic For someone like me, who was born and raised here, it is easy to thrive in this chaos. This is home.
  - glogla 5y ago
    > being able to afford a cook/maid/nanny Having domestic servants is only possible in placesi of high inequality.
    - thematrixturtle 5y ago
      "Indeed", nodded the HN reader sagely, as they sat in the back of their Uber ordering some Doordash and checking on the cleaner with Handy.
mycroftiv 5y ago
I only lightly scanned this at the moment, but I appreciate the human stories and how our personal development paths and our coding paths interact.
roenxi 5y ago
It continues to be a very exciting time in the pacific. The GDP figures suggest that the mythical "average Indian" almost earns enough money to start accumulating capital and from there building a large middle class. Assuming that India can navigate through the next 20 years peacefully and with sensible economic policy. They've got a much better foundation than China for sustained prosperity; as far as I can tell they have a saner political system.
- 88840-8855 5y ago
  please elaborate why you think that the political system is "saner"? my Indian colleagues are very unhappy with the system itself and the racist and populist government that is elected by this system.
  - barry-cotter 5y ago
    India is a democracy with 70 years behind it. If politicians are egregiously bad they get voted out. See Indira “Emergency” Gandhi, of mass involuntary sterilization fame. In China there is no similar system for changing the people who are in power if they screw up badly or are just plain depraved evil. Mao and company were responsible for the Great Leap Forward and accompanying famine and the Cultural Revolution, both of which killed many people. Independent India has never had anything similar and it’s not because India’s ruling class was nicer. I do understand that if you care more about having the right kind of people with the right opinions in power then Western educated Congress Party people might be preferred to those Indians want to vote for. But that’s democracy.
    - bllguo 5y ago
      Yet even with the utter disasters of the great leap forward and the cultural revolution, China is _still_ leaps and bounds ahead of India. How does that figure into your calculations? Outside of China, all the East Asian Tigers achieved their growth under authoritarian rule. How much more evidence do we need before having second thoughts that hey, maybe democracy is not the end-all, be-all of government systems?
  - 5y ago
strooper 5y ago
If solving problems create opportunities for new ventures, that is what the smart people should do instead of piggy backing on technologically stagnated big corporations. Developing countries may have significantly less quality of life in general, but there have always been a class of people enjoying life no less than anyone in the "first world", probably more. Simply put developing countries also need amazon, paypal, EV as they develop and adaption of long existing technology is more important than innovation there. So, entrepreneurs from technologically advance (and competitive) countries have even more opportunities to play bigger roles and create significant impact in a society.
- pm90 5y ago
  This only really applies to a few developing countries, though. I actually think it only really applies to India. When you're creating products for developing countries, you have to build for a certain market. The one in India is enormous and prosperity is increasing (although the pandemic has been a setback, yes).
  - rob74 5y ago
    Yeah, if only 5% of the Indian population can afford your product, that's still a market comparable to the entire German population (~70 million). As long as the way that the other 95% have to live doesn't bother you. I have never been to India, but I still remember the news of the Covid lockdown in 2020 where the migrant workers were suddenly left without income and had to fend for themselves...
    - lotsofpulp 5y ago
      If I am okay with the way the other 95% live around the world, I do not see any reason I would be bothered by the way the other 95% have to live within an arbitrarily delineated portion of the world.
      - ido 5y ago
        Ideologically yes, but practically & subjectively it doesn't feel that way in large Indian cities (anecdotal, I visited India for 2 months years ago). Walking through the center of Delhi (and many other large Indian cities) you see the kind of poverty you never encounter first-hand in developed-world cities like those in Western Europe, North America, Japan, Singapore, etc. It was definitely a shock for me at first & is not a pleasant way to live IMO.
maskedinvader 5y ago
I just wanted to point out I loved the fact the op used expat to describe his status in the US and not immigrant. I’ve always hated we had two different words to describe the same thing.
- igorkraw 5y ago
  Are they the same? To me immigrant implies a newish arrival, probably with the intention of staying and integrating. Expat implies orientation towards the "fatherland" (patriae) to me, so someone who lives in a different country for a while (maybe a long while) but hasn't and has no intention of "going native". But maybe those are private definitions?
  - dontlaugh 5y ago
    Immigrants come from poor countries, expats from rich ones.
    - lordnacho 5y ago
      There's no contradiction with the parent though. You want to immigrate because your new country is nicer and you want to stay. You're an expat because your old country is nicer and you want to go back.
      - nindalf 5y ago
        https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30966197 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30966197
    - nindalf 5y ago
      This is the right answer. People who continue to say “expat” will justify it by saying “oh, they don’t plan to stay in the country long term”. But you can’t possibly know what a persons long term plans are just by looking at them. You can’t even tell with certainty if they came from a poor country or a rich one. All you can see is their skin colour. That’s what people base the “expat” tag on. Sincerely, an immigrant.
akmittal 5y ago
It is time real innovation has started in India. India is embracing tech for new fields like agriculture, India's fintech is thriving, Indian govt is investing a lot in semiconductor fabs. A lot of people i know moved to US because of huge salary gap. Now that gap has reduced a lot and you can save more in India maintaing same lifestyle.
- frontman1988 5y ago
  Gap has reduced but Silicon Valley still pays 4-5 times more for the same job than Indian salaries. As a single guy you can save a lot even accounting cost of living. Probably the reason which helped OP come to India(along with Tesla stocks 10xing)
  - ramraj07 5y ago
    This is not true. The multiplier is at best 2-3x right now. Given the order of magnitude difference in living expenses this is insane.
    - RestlessMind 5y ago
      Let's take a concrete example. Google India L4 compensation is 82K USD[1]. For SV, it's 268K[2]. That's >3x right now. And accounting for 40% taxes and 30% spending (~7K per month which gives you a super comfortable lifestyle even in SV) leaves you with 30% savings, or ~84K USD which is the entire pre-tax pre-CoL salary for the same kind of work in India. Numbers are even more skewed as you become more senior. Now one may argue with Google being an outlier. But Google is an outlier in India as well and a lot of companies pay similar (>3X between SV vs India). SV is also not special in that Seattle or NYC will net you similar numbers. Care to cite some hard data about your statements? [1] https://www.levels.fyi/company/Google/salaries/Software-Engineer/L4/India/ https://www.levels.fyi/company/Google/salaries/Software-Engi... [2] https://www.levels.fyi/?compare=Google,Facebook&track=Software%20Engineer https://www.levels.fyi/?compare=Google,Facebook&track=Softwa...
  - cuteboy19 5y ago
    You have to factor in CoL too. It might be logical to earn for a while in the US and then "cash out" to India
firasd 5y ago
Are there ways to solve for this H1B limitations issue? I guess there's something called an EB-5 visa if you invest a large amount (around a million) for a business that will hire American workers?
- frontman1988 5y ago
  Incorporate your company in US and then work as an employee there on H1B. Seen a few people manage to pull this off.
- pm90 5y ago
  Congress needs to change the law. That’s the only way.
Kakashi4 5y ago
What limitations is the author actually talking about? I don't understand
- d3nj4l 5y ago
  If you’re on an H1B, you must be employed by a company. If you get fired or quit, you must find a job within a couple of months or leave the country.
  - sgt 5y ago
    In the IT industry though - at this time - that is probably not a huge risk.
    - nodemaker 5y ago
      Its more of a question of status. If youre one month away of being sent back to India how can you feel good about yourself.
    - d3nj4l 5y ago
      It's more about the restriction against quitting to work on your own thing, because you have to be gainfully employed by a company with a few restrictions such as the field. I know several people in the States who are miffed about that in particular, and are considering returning (or moving to Canda, where getting a PR is significantly easier) for that reason alone.
known 5y ago
msaharia 5y ago
I returned to India after close to a decade in the US, during which I got a PhD. Loved living there and was fully integrated. But felt like I could make a much bigger impact in India. So, joined IIT Delhi. Good to know about your journey. Drop me an email (in my profile) if you want to catch up over coffee. :)
andrewshadura 5y ago
India is great, but the pollution is big cities is intolerable.
- pm90 5y ago
  Depends on which ones, though. And there has been a ton of investment in public transit systems, so its likely going to be a very different place after all these systems are built out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKcendj7TNM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKcendj7TNM
  - deleted 5y ago
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  - sshkhr 5y ago
    India has 63 out of the world's 100 most polluted cities: https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/delhi-is-worlds-most-polluted-capital-for-2nd-straight-year-report-2836028 https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/delhi-is-worlds-most-pollute... Most large cities in India are extremely polluted, and the smaller ones aren't necessarily any better. I have been all over India, over 15 states and union territories. Even the cleanest Indian cities I have been to (e.g. Chandigarh and Puducherry) are filthier than a regular city in other countries I've visited. It will take massive overhaul of garbage disposal and recycling infrastructure, as well as a massive cultural shift in how we treat our public spaces to overcome our enormous pollution problem.
ramraj07 5y ago
Good for you but there’s no real advantage professionally in moving back, but no disadvantage either. Sure you’re saying H1B restricts but does it really? Have you truly explored all immigration options? Or did you just balk at all the extra beauracracy and said I’ll go back to india? Which is fine, but do note the irony of moving to india to avoid bureaucracy lol. Apply and do your GST, run between five different branches of the same govt entity for a permit and then tell me you have reduced your bureaucratic burden. There’s a nice shiny shell of Indian startups now for sure, but the fundamental rotten core of Indian magistration is still there. There are smart people but for every smart cookie that didn’t leave the country there are 5 charlatans demanding the same salary now. Pretty much every successful startup in India is massively building on top of cheap slave labor / bad tech regulation / gambling. VCs are pouring money here because where else can they go? China? Middle East? How long will it last? Who knows. Not saying india is not going to be successful, but to bet on it’s success over the same industry in the US is at best speculation. Now coming to the society disadvantages, viz. the pollution and water scarcity, abject inequality in your face, and my god let’s not start on the safety of women (my partner said she will never bring a girl child up in india and i incline to agree). The last point is in particular interesting because only naive people have shrugged it off to my face till now. If you are a guy (or worse a girl) who insists it’s not that bad in india, then you grew up with extreme privilege or are extremely clueless about realities of life in this country. Anyways choose away but don’t for a second suggest this is somehow better.
- billfruit 5y ago
  There are definite advantages in moving to India or many other third world countries, there is so much scope and possibly, and the untapped markets can be huge opportunities. Also the same amount of money goes a long way in India than in US. Rents, medical costs, etc are way cheaper.
  - ramraj07 5y ago
    the golden age of startups in india has already started to shutter. It’s still a hot market but all the Low hanging fruits are already done for. Anyone thinking the market here is somehow easier than in the US is absolutely naive.
thallukrish 5y ago
Actually the place does not matter if you have dreams bigger than the place. Pursue them wherever it makes sense. If your dream is to build a startup go build it. If it should be done in India or Timbuktoo, go do it there. Just because you stay in the US or Europe, doesn't mean you can have better dreams. You may be among those who are able to dream better. It may give you better clues as to how to dream compared to India. But hey, in a flat world, you can dream sitting anywhere and go for it wherever you are. It may be a bit harder to do things in India. But without a doubt, the number of problems you can solve in India is far greater than developed countries. In that sense, if you are done with all the Education and stuff and you are reasonably good on finances, India is a lot cheaper to sit and dream and make things happen.
sumanthvepa 5y ago
As a fellow NSIT alum who came back home as well. Welcome back. It been known for a while, that the best place for an Indian to be an entrepreneur is in India, even if your target market is outside the country. Running the gauntlet of immigration regulations is an entirely unnecessary hurdle if you want to do a startup. Just skip it. To be honest the quality of life isn’t notably different for me. Just stay away from Bangalore traffic. I would strongly recommend Kerala to anyone considering returning I live in Chennai, but both Trivandrum and Kochi are excellent places to do a startup. Excellent infrastructure. A reasonably good talent pool and need I mention the sun, sand, and beaches?
- nonamechicken 5y ago
  I am from Trivandrum, now in US and really badly want to pack up and leave (because of management issues). Do you have any tips on finding a job in Trivandrum while still being in US? Do people with about 15 years experience in IT have any hope of finding jobs there?
- arunaugustine 5y ago
  Kerala also has support from the local state government for startups. I returned to India in 2015 to startup and an equity free grant from Kerala state government sustained me and my team for a couple of years till we could stand on our own feet using revenue. Of course we also had support from our family (financial and otherwise, which the government grant helped a lot). Plus the cost of living is absurdly low compared to my life in Mountain View, California
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nindalf 5y ago
A friend of mine sent me a link to this article and said > Yugal Raj Jain. He’ll be fine in India. Indians will understand what my friend meant by that.
- LordAtlas 5y ago
  All too well, unfortunately.
- rognjen 5y ago
  It'd benefit the discussion in a forum filled with non-Indians if you explained what he meant. But I assume it's a caste-thing...
  - nindalf 5y ago
    It would benefit the non Indians, certainly. And it’d also get me flagged. But what the hell, I’ll say it. OP is an upper caste male. You won’t see many “India is doing great! I’m heading back there!” posts from Indian women or Indian Muslims or Indian Dalits. That’s what I meant. I’m similar to the OP in that I’m an upper caste male as well. The difference between me and him is that I can understand and empathise with the difficulties faced by people different from me.
    - nomemory 5y ago
      Why do you think he is not capable of showing empathy to the people different than him.
      - nindalf 5y ago
        A person speaking about the opportunities in India solely based on VC funding while speaking about none of the downsides to people different than him gives me that impression. And the downsides for people different from him and me are numerous, if you open your eyes to it. OP could be a remarkably empathic and kind person for all I know. But this post doesn’t show it.
    - 5y ago
princevegeta89 5y ago
Fuck the H1b visa. Yes I understand that we have created a huge GC backlog by immigrating here in large numbers but that doesn't mean we should be dragged around like a toy. This is sadly the impression I've formed these days. Our entire lives here revolve around that visa and we could basically be holding on to it for 30 to 50 years before we can get a GC lol. In the meantime, maintaining our driver's licenses, being able to enter/leave the country, being questioned at the airports, having to constantly renew crap, waiting for eons to change employer, staying disconnected from the family are all common things to expect. To add to this, there are no appointments for Visa Stampings back in the home country because of which many people dropped their travel plans; and USCIS doesn't give a damn about it. Life is more or less crippled at this point. Now, would all this still be outweighed by a First World living quality? In the beginning when I was young I used to think "yes". But I've realized lately that it's a big "no". Days are making me think about my plan to move back out to home country or our peaceful northern neighbor.
- nonamechicken 5y ago
  > In the beginning when I was young I used to think "yes". But I've realized lately that it's a big "no". Exactly my thoughts. The poor quality air or the mad traffic in Indian cities feels a lot better than the insane stress the visa situations put me through the last few years.
- saimiam 5y ago
  Man, you said it. I hated that stuff when I was on an H1B. Cannot emphasise how much nicer life is once you are no longer holding out for that (apparently) magical Green Card. As of date, apparently my GC petition date is current but I'll be damned if I'm going back to the US to stand in line, hat in hand for slip of paper telling me I'm allowed to live normally again.
  - princevegeta89 5y ago
    Well, I can't even picture myself retiring in this country. It is too capitalistic to be that magical utopia. Enough with the paperwork, it's about time we realized that we don't have to be a slave to the visa and think about freedom. I mean to say "free"dom
DeathArrow 5y ago
I think the author took some good decisions. First going in a different country, learning and getting to know a different culture. Second, going back to his own country and participate in a rising industry, thus laying another brick at the well being of his country. It's exactly what I would have done if I were in his shoes. Now it's kind of late for me to go work and study in another country. Many of my fellow countrymen do suffer of self hate and at the first chance they go to study or work abroad with the intent of leaving their homeland, even if the economic situation is not bad here. I feel sorry for them.
- riantogo 5y ago
  Don’t feel sorry for them. It is a choice they are able to make for themselves. Most of these expats visit home regularly and see the ground realities. They are in a better place to compare the lives between the two places. Most choose the county they immigrated to. Stop and think why it might be so.
golgappa 5y ago
[flagged]
- pm90 5y ago
  I was genuinely shocked when some white American friends confided in me that I wasn’t “like the other Indians who smell like curry all the time”. There is progress in representation since then (this was about 7 years ago) and the country (well, not the Red States) do seem to be moving in the right direction though.
amtamt 5y ago
"Before I came to America, I thought the streets were paved in gold. When I came here I learnt three things: The streets were not paved in gold, the streets weren't paved, and that I was expected to pave them.", is often shared in context on American dream. No place is perfect, but grass is always greener on the other end.
nodemaker 5y ago
Okay so I did the same thing in 2012 after being frustrated working with the H1B system for 2 years. In 2013 however I moved to the netherlands for a job and in 2020 I became a dutch national (Actually spent the whole of 2019 in colombia). Now after 2 years of travelling (mostly living in spain) I am moving back to India again and will try Mumbai. I work with us companies remotely and will probably keep doing so and make trips to the US every few months. Cheers and good luck OP :)
- saimiam 5y ago
  Hit me up in Mumbai sai @ pretzelbox dot cc.
  - nodemaker 5y ago
    sure will do :)
  - FlyingSnake 5y ago
    I’ll be in Mumbai in June as well. Are there any hackerspaces that you recommend that I can visit? Would be up for a coffee if you’re up for it.
    - saimiam 5y ago
      Plenty of coworking spaces all over the city and suburbs. They’ll probably work well if you want to spend a day or two working. Found this list of hackerspaces but I’m personally not familiar with any of them. https://wiki.hackerspaces.org/Mumbai https://wiki.hackerspaces.org/Mumbai Coffee/meetup sounds good! Email me when you’re here!
johndfsgdgdfg 5y ago
I have always wondered this. In US left wing groups are always outraged about treatment of illegal/undocumented immigrants. Why is there no outrage how legal immigrants are being treated in US?
- muzaffarpur 5y ago
  because not enough votes.
- pm90 5y ago
  Generally people who come via work visas are likely to be better educated and will probably be ok if they have to leave. While the immigrants who tend to come illegally are doing so mostly out of desperation (economic or political). There’s also not much interest politically to make it easier for Indian immigrants specifically. For folks who have already immigrated, they have a “I got mine, fuck you” mentality, while the people in the process itself can’t vote and influence political decisions. The community of Indian Americans is also not large enough to have extensive networks similar to that of immigrants from South/Central American nations.
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SkyMarshal 5y ago
> the insane opportunities available in India now [3]. > India’s rising startup and tech wave > Massive switch from wealth accumulation mode to wealth creation mode. > And the amount of VC funding in India combined with the startup ecosystem’s energy here is absolute fire > The collective risk appetite has never been higher. > The step after the ‘American dream’ is the ‘Indian dream’. This is great to hear about India. The more developed and economically successful the world’s largest democracy is, the better for the world in general. The US, Europe, and allies should be doing whatever we can to support this.
- krzyk 5y ago
  It will be hard because India likes to buy from Russia recently and doesn't see a problem with invasion.
  - ra7 5y ago
    Huh? They’ve repeatedly said they don’t support violence and has offered to mediate between Russia and Ukraine. Just because they’re looking out for their economic needs — which are wildly different than developed nations — doesn’t mean they support the invasion.
    - chrischen 5y ago
      If you asked the Russians they’d probably also tell you they don’t support the violence.
    - mongol 5y ago
      If they don't support it, they have had plenty of opportunities to voice against it. But they have abstained. It is really disappointing.
      - ra7 5y ago
        Yes, but that doesn’t come close to supporting the war. On the other hand, they’ve provided considerable humanitarian assistance to Ukraine. For better or worse, that’s just the situation — economic and geopolitical — India is in. They don’t have the luxury of looking at things black and white like most western nations.
immigrantheart 5y ago
I can relate so much so much with this post, but not because of lack of opportunity. Quite the contrary, I actually won a green card lottery, came from SEA, work as a SWE with FAANG salary. Now I live in NYC, married to a wife (also not from US, but also not from my country), sponsored her to live here with me. Now I am torn, or specifically, we are torn. Our heart is in 3 different countries. These two countries (non US ones) do not recognize dual citizenship, so if we do get US citizenship so that we can leave US and live in other countries, we have to be extra careful. Even when these 2 countries do dual citizenship, the challenge still exists. First, I do speak my wife's country of origin language, though not fluent. My wife doesn't speak my country of origin language. We both speak English fluently though. What should our kids learn? We currently don't have kids but are trying to. We would need to prioritize language learning for our kids more than anything else. We want our kids to be born here, in the US, and they will have automatically 3 citizenships at birth, until they have to choose when they turn 18. I wonder how they will feel if we constantly move around like this? I know military kids and missionary kids feel the same way. On the other hand, if we live US, and work in my country, my salary probably won't be as good as US salary, but if in the future our kids want US education, I won't be able to afford it. Same with my wife's country as well. The reason why I am pondering all of these now, and I've been living in the US for 10 years is because, once an immigrant, always immigrant at heart. US has its good things of course, but other countries as well, and most importantly, family. Family, friends, in which we both still have strong ties with our origin country. Time passes, our families and friends aren't getting younger. Money is useless to us, having combined household income of around $500k, but we don't enjoy our money. What's use is money if we can't enjoy it with our friends and families. We live modestly, never go into lavish vacation or lavish things. My wife country is a 1st world East Asian country. My country of origin is a 3rd world SEA country. I've seen that my country is getting better and better, and there are many many, many opportunities back there. Even people from 1st world countries are retiring and creating companies here. 3 years ago I visited, I'd never imagine in the middle of nowhere while I was eating random street food, 2 foreigners spoke in their foreign language next to me. How, when did this happen. So much growth has happened. I don't know, I'm just sharing here. I think our plan is, we want to make as much money as possible now, and see in 5 years what will happen.
- 5y ago
thunkshift1 5y ago
Dude was in MIT, and made a ton of money in Tesla. I dont think moving anywhere is a problem fir this guy.
- sydthrowaway 5y ago
  How much money would he have made from Tesla’s stock rise?
mama123 5y ago
The speed at which things are improving in India combined with the restrictions in the covid lockdown has made many rethink their current situation. The lockdown has forced people to their homes with limited opportunities for outdoor activity especially in the winter. Things start to look very different pretty quickly. While it is definitely hot in many parts of India, one can have access to round the year gardening, house help is affordable.
hvaoc 4y ago
If someone with this much experience is going back to a third world country leaving it all back then you should know the pathetic state of US immigration. US immigration is not flawed but carefully designed to benefit corporations to have enslaved foreign labor force available on their terms to keep their local labor workforce in check. There is no other interpretation of it. Especially targeting those who born in countries like India who are ready to pay the price to stay in the US. Living in the US is not as great as they make you believe. Subpar experience for anyone from other developed country. So target US as a market never try to live there. Note: I have worked in the US, had enough opportunity to live there but never bothered about it.

200 points by sdht0 5y ago

Issaclabs 5y ago
What are you adding to the conversation with this comment? HN isn't the place for such remarks. Consider posting to the 100s of websites where comments like this are incentivised and not here.

My cousin made the same move, though in his case he kept the same employer (for a few years). He’s much happier (in Mumbai, not Delhi). His brother, however, has been in the states for decades and I’m sure will never move back. So there is no magic answer. I keep telling myself I will move back to the country of my birth, but haven’t yet. The work here is too much fun.

kwere 5y ago
are there in india "comparable" life/quality jobs, if one doesnt want to start his/her startup?
- gumby 5y ago
  Sure, if you want to work for a big multinational. I just looked at his LinkedIn and after he moved back he had the same job (Eng manager) remotely (this was about 15 years ago) but when he moved into management he switched to management and now running the Indian sub of a different multinational. We had lunch around the time he made the switch and he’d just dropped his kids off at tutoring then he went to pick them up from Judo after our meal, i.e, basically the same as if he’d stayed in New Jersey.

FlyingSnake 5y ago

Many more folks will be moving to India due the H1B visa regime, and we already are seeing lots of Indians moving in to Berlin Fri the USA. However it becomes harder to move back once you’ve school going kids and want them to have access to world class universities like TUM, MIT, OxBridge etc. Balaji Srinivasan is definitely a big India proponent and his latest session with Shane Parrish was really illuminating.

sveme 5y ago
It‘s interesting that the German work permit scheme seems to be much more liberal nowadays than the US one. I‘m just hiring a guy from Delhi and the process is pretty straightforward.
- FlyingSnake 5y ago
  I regularly hire people from India at my current role, and the process is so much straightforward. There is a huge talent pool in India that is disillusioned with the US visa regime and Germany is benefiting greatly from this.
  - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
    Isn't lax immigration basically wage suppression on the local German workforce and a handout to the asset/business owning class? If you can basically hire anyone in the world instead of locals, then what leverage does the local workforce have to demand higher wages? Feels like a power imbalance that greatly benefits the employers, banks, real estate owners, retail businesses and the boreoarctic government apparatus, who all benefit from the increase population and consumers, but screws over the local workers who need to compete with a bigger talent pool for work and a bigger pool of tenants for rent and overburdened public services like childcare.
    - saidinesh5 5y ago
      It can be easier and cheaper to hire locally, compared to sponsoring a work visa to a foreigner. For highly skilled specialists, the minimum wage for a German work Visa is 56,800 EUR (EU Blue Card) and 44,304 EUR for shortage jobs. (1). So at an individual level, wage suppression might not always happen. (Back when I was offered jobs there, my colleagues there were earning less). That being said, at scale, the increased talent pool might indeed suppress the wages - especially in short term, but you never know about long term. Immigrants might start / help their own company provide jobs to more of the local talent. Not to mention other issues like falling birth rates vs. the economy, increased tax base, companies unable to afford local workforce temporarily (think early stage startups) etc.. Personally, I see skilled immigration as a net positive to the receiving country - only because I see the downsides of brain drain on the country those highly educated people are immigrating from. 1. https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/germany/visa/employment-visa/ https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/germany/visa/employment-vis...

newyankee 5y ago

This person is definitely very successful in his chosen realm. I would say I personally enjoyed moderate success in US after moving from an academic field to Tech. I moved to India before Covid as there was no realistic pathway to Green Card for me even after so many years (in reasonable timeframe) and I wanted to take a break from typical work and focus on personal life. I actually miss the US a lot and would've loved running a small business instead of some hyper successful startup. Alas not possible in a realistic sense because only way to be there is on the work visa. The reverse cultural shock is real and true even if you work remotely as I do.

hans1729 5y ago

I'd imagine moving back to India after being successful in the US gives you lots of leverage and status, in the sense of being a big fish in a smaller pool (what a beautiful irony, thinking of India of all places as the smaller pool, heh). But lets be real, isn't the quality of life much worse? I've never been there (or in the US, for that matter), but I'd imagine that things like infrastructure are far worse in India. Also, the country seems so... chaotic, the cultural shock must be crazy.

throwaway158497 5y ago
Many people somehow are able to overlook the lack of infrastructure and accident prone roads. Family+having access to maids, cooks, drivers, etc is a big driver of this behavior.
vishnumohandas 5y ago
I moved from Switzerland to India sometime back, for reasons similar to OP's. Here are my ₹2 > quality of life "Quality" is subjective. My wife and I value having our parents around, being able to afford a cook/maid/nanny, not having to deal with winter and darkness, ... > infrastructure For sure it's worse in India. But our lifestyle here is such that we don't have to deal with it frequently. We live next to friends, in a arguably beautiful society, and when we do need something done, we inevitably "know a guy who knows a guy", who can help sort things out without us having to deal with the subpar infra. But yes, for sure India could do a lot better on this front. > chaotic For someone like me, who was born and raised here, it is easy to thrive in this chaos. This is home.
- glogla 5y ago
  > being able to afford a cook/maid/nanny Having domestic servants is only possible in placesi of high inequality.
  - thematrixturtle 5y ago
    "Indeed", nodded the HN reader sagely, as they sat in the back of their Uber ordering some Doordash and checking on the cleaner with Handy.

mycroftiv 5y ago

I only lightly scanned this at the moment, but I appreciate the human stories and how our personal development paths and our coding paths interact.

roenxi 5y ago

It continues to be a very exciting time in the pacific. The GDP figures suggest that the mythical "average Indian" almost earns enough money to start accumulating capital and from there building a large middle class. Assuming that India can navigate through the next 20 years peacefully and with sensible economic policy. They've got a much better foundation than China for sustained prosperity; as far as I can tell they have a saner political system.

88840-8855 5y ago
please elaborate why you think that the political system is "saner"? my Indian colleagues are very unhappy with the system itself and the racist and populist government that is elected by this system.
- barry-cotter 5y ago
  India is a democracy with 70 years behind it. If politicians are egregiously bad they get voted out. See Indira “Emergency” Gandhi, of mass involuntary sterilization fame. In China there is no similar system for changing the people who are in power if they screw up badly or are just plain depraved evil. Mao and company were responsible for the Great Leap Forward and accompanying famine and the Cultural Revolution, both of which killed many people. Independent India has never had anything similar and it’s not because India’s ruling class was nicer. I do understand that if you care more about having the right kind of people with the right opinions in power then Western educated Congress Party people might be preferred to those Indians want to vote for. But that’s democracy.
  - bllguo 5y ago
    Yet even with the utter disasters of the great leap forward and the cultural revolution, China is _still_ leaps and bounds ahead of India. How does that figure into your calculations? Outside of China, all the East Asian Tigers achieved their growth under authoritarian rule. How much more evidence do we need before having second thoughts that hey, maybe democracy is not the end-all, be-all of government systems?
- 5y ago

strooper 5y ago

If solving problems create opportunities for new ventures, that is what the smart people should do instead of piggy backing on technologically stagnated big corporations. Developing countries may have significantly less quality of life in general, but there have always been a class of people enjoying life no less than anyone in the "first world", probably more. Simply put developing countries also need amazon, paypal, EV as they develop and adaption of long existing technology is more important than innovation there. So, entrepreneurs from technologically advance (and competitive) countries have even more opportunities to play bigger roles and create significant impact in a society.

pm90 5y ago
This only really applies to a few developing countries, though. I actually think it only really applies to India. When you're creating products for developing countries, you have to build for a certain market. The one in India is enormous and prosperity is increasing (although the pandemic has been a setback, yes).
- rob74 5y ago
  Yeah, if only 5% of the Indian population can afford your product, that's still a market comparable to the entire German population (~70 million). As long as the way that the other 95% have to live doesn't bother you. I have never been to India, but I still remember the news of the Covid lockdown in 2020 where the migrant workers were suddenly left without income and had to fend for themselves...
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    If I am okay with the way the other 95% live around the world, I do not see any reason I would be bothered by the way the other 95% have to live within an arbitrarily delineated portion of the world.
    - ido 5y ago
      Ideologically yes, but practically & subjectively it doesn't feel that way in large Indian cities (anecdotal, I visited India for 2 months years ago). Walking through the center of Delhi (and many other large Indian cities) you see the kind of poverty you never encounter first-hand in developed-world cities like those in Western Europe, North America, Japan, Singapore, etc. It was definitely a shock for me at first & is not a pleasant way to live IMO.

maskedinvader 5y ago

I just wanted to point out I loved the fact the op used expat to describe his status in the US and not immigrant. I’ve always hated we had two different words to describe the same thing.

igorkraw 5y ago
Are they the same? To me immigrant implies a newish arrival, probably with the intention of staying and integrating. Expat implies orientation towards the "fatherland" (patriae) to me, so someone who lives in a different country for a while (maybe a long while) but hasn't and has no intention of "going native". But maybe those are private definitions?
- dontlaugh 5y ago
  Immigrants come from poor countries, expats from rich ones.
  - lordnacho 5y ago
    There's no contradiction with the parent though. You want to immigrate because your new country is nicer and you want to stay. You're an expat because your old country is nicer and you want to go back.
    - nindalf 5y ago
      https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30966197 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30966197
  - nindalf 5y ago
    This is the right answer. People who continue to say “expat” will justify it by saying “oh, they don’t plan to stay in the country long term”. But you can’t possibly know what a persons long term plans are just by looking at them. You can’t even tell with certainty if they came from a poor country or a rich one. All you can see is their skin colour. That’s what people base the “expat” tag on. Sincerely, an immigrant.

akmittal 5y ago

It is time real innovation has started in India. India is embracing tech for new fields like agriculture, India's fintech is thriving, Indian govt is investing a lot in semiconductor fabs. A lot of people i know moved to US because of huge salary gap. Now that gap has reduced a lot and you can save more in India maintaing same lifestyle.

frontman1988 5y ago
Gap has reduced but Silicon Valley still pays 4-5 times more for the same job than Indian salaries. As a single guy you can save a lot even accounting cost of living. Probably the reason which helped OP come to India(along with Tesla stocks 10xing)
- ramraj07 5y ago
  This is not true. The multiplier is at best 2-3x right now. Given the order of magnitude difference in living expenses this is insane.
  - RestlessMind 5y ago
    Let's take a concrete example. Google India L4 compensation is 82K USD[1]. For SV, it's 268K[2]. That's >3x right now. And accounting for 40% taxes and 30% spending (~7K per month which gives you a super comfortable lifestyle even in SV) leaves you with 30% savings, or ~84K USD which is the entire pre-tax pre-CoL salary for the same kind of work in India. Numbers are even more skewed as you become more senior. Now one may argue with Google being an outlier. But Google is an outlier in India as well and a lot of companies pay similar (>3X between SV vs India). SV is also not special in that Seattle or NYC will net you similar numbers. Care to cite some hard data about your statements? [1] https://www.levels.fyi/company/Google/salaries/Software-Engineer/L4/India/ https://www.levels.fyi/company/Google/salaries/Software-Engi... [2] https://www.levels.fyi/?compare=Google,Facebook&track=Software%20Engineer https://www.levels.fyi/?compare=Google,Facebook&track=Softwa...
- cuteboy19 5y ago
  You have to factor in CoL too. It might be logical to earn for a while in the US and then "cash out" to India

firasd 5y ago

Are there ways to solve for this H1B limitations issue? I guess there's something called an EB-5 visa if you invest a large amount (around a million) for a business that will hire American workers?

frontman1988 5y ago
Incorporate your company in US and then work as an employee there on H1B. Seen a few people manage to pull this off.
pm90 5y ago
Congress needs to change the law. That’s the only way.

Kakashi4 5y ago

What limitations is the author actually talking about? I don't understand

d3nj4l 5y ago
If you’re on an H1B, you must be employed by a company. If you get fired or quit, you must find a job within a couple of months or leave the country.
- sgt 5y ago
  In the IT industry though - at this time - that is probably not a huge risk.
  - nodemaker 5y ago
    Its more of a question of status. If youre one month away of being sent back to India how can you feel good about yourself.
  - d3nj4l 5y ago
    It's more about the restriction against quitting to work on your own thing, because you have to be gainfully employed by a company with a few restrictions such as the field. I know several people in the States who are miffed about that in particular, and are considering returning (or moving to Canda, where getting a PR is significantly easier) for that reason alone.

known 5y ago

msaharia 5y ago

I returned to India after close to a decade in the US, during which I got a PhD. Loved living there and was fully integrated. But felt like I could make a much bigger impact in India. So, joined IIT Delhi. Good to know about your journey. Drop me an email (in my profile) if you want to catch up over coffee. :)

andrewshadura 5y ago

India is great, but the pollution is big cities is intolerable.

pm90 5y ago
Depends on which ones, though. And there has been a ton of investment in public transit systems, so its likely going to be a very different place after all these systems are built out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKcendj7TNM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKcendj7TNM
- deleted 5y ago
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- sshkhr 5y ago
  India has 63 out of the world's 100 most polluted cities: https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/delhi-is-worlds-most-polluted-capital-for-2nd-straight-year-report-2836028 https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/delhi-is-worlds-most-pollute... Most large cities in India are extremely polluted, and the smaller ones aren't necessarily any better. I have been all over India, over 15 states and union territories. Even the cleanest Indian cities I have been to (e.g. Chandigarh and Puducherry) are filthier than a regular city in other countries I've visited. It will take massive overhaul of garbage disposal and recycling infrastructure, as well as a massive cultural shift in how we treat our public spaces to overcome our enormous pollution problem.

ramraj07 5y ago

Good for you but there’s no real advantage professionally in moving back, but no disadvantage either. Sure you’re saying H1B restricts but does it really? Have you truly explored all immigration options? Or did you just balk at all the extra beauracracy and said I’ll go back to india? Which is fine, but do note the irony of moving to india to avoid bureaucracy lol. Apply and do your GST, run between five different branches of the same govt entity for a permit and then tell me you have reduced your bureaucratic burden. There’s a nice shiny shell of Indian startups now for sure, but the fundamental rotten core of Indian magistration is still there. There are smart people but for every smart cookie that didn’t leave the country there are 5 charlatans demanding the same salary now. Pretty much every successful startup in India is massively building on top of cheap slave labor / bad tech regulation / gambling. VCs are pouring money here because where else can they go? China? Middle East? How long will it last? Who knows. Not saying india is not going to be successful, but to bet on it’s success over the same industry in the US is at best speculation. Now coming to the society disadvantages, viz. the pollution and water scarcity, abject inequality in your face, and my god let’s not start on the safety of women (my partner said she will never bring a girl child up in india and i incline to agree). The last point is in particular interesting because only naive people have shrugged it off to my face till now. If you are a guy (or worse a girl) who insists it’s not that bad in india, then you grew up with extreme privilege or are extremely clueless about realities of life in this country. Anyways choose away but don’t for a second suggest this is somehow better.

billfruit 5y ago
There are definite advantages in moving to India or many other third world countries, there is so much scope and possibly, and the untapped markets can be huge opportunities. Also the same amount of money goes a long way in India than in US. Rents, medical costs, etc are way cheaper.
- ramraj07 5y ago
  the golden age of startups in india has already started to shutter. It’s still a hot market but all the Low hanging fruits are already done for. Anyone thinking the market here is somehow easier than in the US is absolutely naive.

thallukrish 5y ago

Actually the place does not matter if you have dreams bigger than the place. Pursue them wherever it makes sense. If your dream is to build a startup go build it. If it should be done in India or Timbuktoo, go do it there. Just because you stay in the US or Europe, doesn't mean you can have better dreams. You may be among those who are able to dream better. It may give you better clues as to how to dream compared to India. But hey, in a flat world, you can dream sitting anywhere and go for it wherever you are. It may be a bit harder to do things in India. But without a doubt, the number of problems you can solve in India is far greater than developed countries. In that sense, if you are done with all the Education and stuff and you are reasonably good on finances, India is a lot cheaper to sit and dream and make things happen.

sumanthvepa 5y ago

As a fellow NSIT alum who came back home as well. Welcome back. It been known for a while, that the best place for an Indian to be an entrepreneur is in India, even if your target market is outside the country. Running the gauntlet of immigration regulations is an entirely unnecessary hurdle if you want to do a startup. Just skip it. To be honest the quality of life isn’t notably different for me. Just stay away from Bangalore traffic. I would strongly recommend Kerala to anyone considering returning I live in Chennai, but both Trivandrum and Kochi are excellent places to do a startup. Excellent infrastructure. A reasonably good talent pool and need I mention the sun, sand, and beaches?

nonamechicken 5y ago
I am from Trivandrum, now in US and really badly want to pack up and leave (because of management issues). Do you have any tips on finding a job in Trivandrum while still being in US? Do people with about 15 years experience in IT have any hope of finding jobs there?
arunaugustine 5y ago
Kerala also has support from the local state government for startups. I returned to India in 2015 to startup and an equity free grant from Kerala state government sustained me and my team for a couple of years till we could stand on our own feet using revenue. Of course we also had support from our family (financial and otherwise, which the government grant helped a lot). Plus the cost of living is absurdly low compared to my life in Mountain View, California
- deleted 5y ago
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nindalf 5y ago

A friend of mine sent me a link to this article and said > Yugal Raj Jain. He’ll be fine in India. Indians will understand what my friend meant by that.

LordAtlas 5y ago
All too well, unfortunately.
rognjen 5y ago
It'd benefit the discussion in a forum filled with non-Indians if you explained what he meant. But I assume it's a caste-thing...
- nindalf 5y ago
  It would benefit the non Indians, certainly. And it’d also get me flagged. But what the hell, I’ll say it. OP is an upper caste male. You won’t see many “India is doing great! I’m heading back there!” posts from Indian women or Indian Muslims or Indian Dalits. That’s what I meant. I’m similar to the OP in that I’m an upper caste male as well. The difference between me and him is that I can understand and empathise with the difficulties faced by people different from me.
  - nomemory 5y ago
    Why do you think he is not capable of showing empathy to the people different than him.
    - nindalf 5y ago
      A person speaking about the opportunities in India solely based on VC funding while speaking about none of the downsides to people different than him gives me that impression. And the downsides for people different from him and me are numerous, if you open your eyes to it. OP could be a remarkably empathic and kind person for all I know. But this post doesn’t show it.
  - 5y ago

princevegeta89 5y ago

Fuck the H1b visa. Yes I understand that we have created a huge GC backlog by immigrating here in large numbers but that doesn't mean we should be dragged around like a toy. This is sadly the impression I've formed these days. Our entire lives here revolve around that visa and we could basically be holding on to it for 30 to 50 years before we can get a GC lol. In the meantime, maintaining our driver's licenses, being able to enter/leave the country, being questioned at the airports, having to constantly renew crap, waiting for eons to change employer, staying disconnected from the family are all common things to expect. To add to this, there are no appointments for Visa Stampings back in the home country because of which many people dropped their travel plans; and USCIS doesn't give a damn about it. Life is more or less crippled at this point. Now, would all this still be outweighed by a First World living quality? In the beginning when I was young I used to think "yes". But I've realized lately that it's a big "no". Days are making me think about my plan to move back out to home country or our peaceful northern neighbor.

nonamechicken 5y ago
> In the beginning when I was young I used to think "yes". But I've realized lately that it's a big "no". Exactly my thoughts. The poor quality air or the mad traffic in Indian cities feels a lot better than the insane stress the visa situations put me through the last few years.
saimiam 5y ago
Man, you said it. I hated that stuff when I was on an H1B. Cannot emphasise how much nicer life is once you are no longer holding out for that (apparently) magical Green Card. As of date, apparently my GC petition date is current but I'll be damned if I'm going back to the US to stand in line, hat in hand for slip of paper telling me I'm allowed to live normally again.
- princevegeta89 5y ago
  Well, I can't even picture myself retiring in this country. It is too capitalistic to be that magical utopia. Enough with the paperwork, it's about time we realized that we don't have to be a slave to the visa and think about freedom. I mean to say "free"dom

DeathArrow 5y ago

I think the author took some good decisions. First going in a different country, learning and getting to know a different culture. Second, going back to his own country and participate in a rising industry, thus laying another brick at the well being of his country. It's exactly what I would have done if I were in his shoes. Now it's kind of late for me to go work and study in another country. Many of my fellow countrymen do suffer of self hate and at the first chance they go to study or work abroad with the intent of leaving their homeland, even if the economic situation is not bad here. I feel sorry for them.

riantogo 5y ago
Don’t feel sorry for them. It is a choice they are able to make for themselves. Most of these expats visit home regularly and see the ground realities. They are in a better place to compare the lives between the two places. Most choose the county they immigrated to. Stop and think why it might be so.

golgappa 5y ago

[flagged]

pm90 5y ago
I was genuinely shocked when some white American friends confided in me that I wasn’t “like the other Indians who smell like curry all the time”. There is progress in representation since then (this was about 7 years ago) and the country (well, not the Red States) do seem to be moving in the right direction though.

amtamt 5y ago

"Before I came to America, I thought the streets were paved in gold. When I came here I learnt three things: The streets were not paved in gold, the streets weren't paved, and that I was expected to pave them.", is often shared in context on American dream. No place is perfect, but grass is always greener on the other end.

nodemaker 5y ago

Okay so I did the same thing in 2012 after being frustrated working with the H1B system for 2 years. In 2013 however I moved to the netherlands for a job and in 2020 I became a dutch national (Actually spent the whole of 2019 in colombia). Now after 2 years of travelling (mostly living in spain) I am moving back to India again and will try Mumbai. I work with us companies remotely and will probably keep doing so and make trips to the US every few months. Cheers and good luck OP :)

saimiam 5y ago
Hit me up in Mumbai sai @ pretzelbox dot cc.
- nodemaker 5y ago
  sure will do :)
- FlyingSnake 5y ago
  I’ll be in Mumbai in June as well. Are there any hackerspaces that you recommend that I can visit? Would be up for a coffee if you’re up for it.
  - saimiam 5y ago
    Plenty of coworking spaces all over the city and suburbs. They’ll probably work well if you want to spend a day or two working. Found this list of hackerspaces but I’m personally not familiar with any of them. https://wiki.hackerspaces.org/Mumbai https://wiki.hackerspaces.org/Mumbai Coffee/meetup sounds good! Email me when you’re here!

johndfsgdgdfg 5y ago

I have always wondered this. In US left wing groups are always outraged about treatment of illegal/undocumented immigrants. Why is there no outrage how legal immigrants are being treated in US?

muzaffarpur 5y ago
because not enough votes.
pm90 5y ago
Generally people who come via work visas are likely to be better educated and will probably be ok if they have to leave. While the immigrants who tend to come illegally are doing so mostly out of desperation (economic or political). There’s also not much interest politically to make it easier for Indian immigrants specifically. For folks who have already immigrated, they have a “I got mine, fuck you” mentality, while the people in the process itself can’t vote and influence political decisions. The community of Indian Americans is also not large enough to have extensive networks similar to that of immigrants from South/Central American nations.

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SkyMarshal 5y ago

> the insane opportunities available in India now [3]. > India’s rising startup and tech wave > Massive switch from wealth accumulation mode to wealth creation mode. > And the amount of VC funding in India combined with the startup ecosystem’s energy here is absolute fire > The collective risk appetite has never been higher. > The step after the ‘American dream’ is the ‘Indian dream’. This is great to hear about India. The more developed and economically successful the world’s largest democracy is, the better for the world in general. The US, Europe, and allies should be doing whatever we can to support this.

krzyk 5y ago
It will be hard because India likes to buy from Russia recently and doesn't see a problem with invasion.
- ra7 5y ago
  Huh? They’ve repeatedly said they don’t support violence and has offered to mediate between Russia and Ukraine. Just because they’re looking out for their economic needs — which are wildly different than developed nations — doesn’t mean they support the invasion.
  - chrischen 5y ago
    If you asked the Russians they’d probably also tell you they don’t support the violence.
  - mongol 5y ago
    If they don't support it, they have had plenty of opportunities to voice against it. But they have abstained. It is really disappointing.
    - ra7 5y ago
      Yes, but that doesn’t come close to supporting the war. On the other hand, they’ve provided considerable humanitarian assistance to Ukraine. For better or worse, that’s just the situation — economic and geopolitical — India is in. They don’t have the luxury of looking at things black and white like most western nations.

immigrantheart 5y ago

I can relate so much so much with this post, but not because of lack of opportunity. Quite the contrary, I actually won a green card lottery, came from SEA, work as a SWE with FAANG salary. Now I live in NYC, married to a wife (also not from US, but also not from my country), sponsored her to live here with me. Now I am torn, or specifically, we are torn. Our heart is in 3 different countries. These two countries (non US ones) do not recognize dual citizenship, so if we do get US citizenship so that we can leave US and live in other countries, we have to be extra careful. Even when these 2 countries do dual citizenship, the challenge still exists. First, I do speak my wife's country of origin language, though not fluent. My wife doesn't speak my country of origin language. We both speak English fluently though. What should our kids learn? We currently don't have kids but are trying to. We would need to prioritize language learning for our kids more than anything else. We want our kids to be born here, in the US, and they will have automatically 3 citizenships at birth, until they have to choose when they turn 18. I wonder how they will feel if we constantly move around like this? I know military kids and missionary kids feel the same way. On the other hand, if we live US, and work in my country, my salary probably won't be as good as US salary, but if in the future our kids want US education, I won't be able to afford it. Same with my wife's country as well. The reason why I am pondering all of these now, and I've been living in the US for 10 years is because, once an immigrant, always immigrant at heart. US has its good things of course, but other countries as well, and most importantly, family. Family, friends, in which we both still have strong ties with our origin country. Time passes, our families and friends aren't getting younger. Money is useless to us, having combined household income of around $500k, but we don't enjoy our money. What's use is money if we can't enjoy it with our friends and families. We live modestly, never go into lavish vacation or lavish things. My wife country is a 1st world East Asian country. My country of origin is a 3rd world SEA country. I've seen that my country is getting better and better, and there are many many, many opportunities back there. Even people from 1st world countries are retiring and creating companies here. 3 years ago I visited, I'd never imagine in the middle of nowhere while I was eating random street food, 2 foreigners spoke in their foreign language next to me. How, when did this happen. So much growth has happened. I don't know, I'm just sharing here. I think our plan is, we want to make as much money as possible now, and see in 5 years what will happen.

5y ago

thunkshift1 5y ago

Dude was in MIT, and made a ton of money in Tesla. I dont think moving anywhere is a problem fir this guy.

sydthrowaway 5y ago
How much money would he have made from Tesla’s stock rise?

mama123 5y ago

The speed at which things are improving in India combined with the restrictions in the covid lockdown has made many rethink their current situation. The lockdown has forced people to their homes with limited opportunities for outdoor activity especially in the winter. Things start to look very different pretty quickly. While it is definitely hot in many parts of India, one can have access to round the year gardening, house help is affordable.

hvaoc 4y ago

If someone with this much experience is going back to a third world country leaving it all back then you should know the pathetic state of US immigration. US immigration is not flawed but carefully designed to benefit corporations to have enslaved foreign labor force available on their terms to keep their local labor workforce in check. There is no other interpretation of it. Especially targeting those who born in countries like India who are ready to pay the price to stay in the US. Living in the US is not as great as they make you believe. Subpar experience for anyone from other developed country. So target US as a market never try to live there. Note: I have worked in the US, had enough opportunity to live there but never bothered about it.