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It seems pretty similar. The only interesting aspects were the perspectives of the drone zooming through the assemblies, and Tesla's use of very complex casting

by jerlam 5y ago

It seems pretty similar. The only interesting aspects were the perspectives of the drone zooming through the assemblies, and Tesla's use of very complex castings; but I grew up around manufacturing/factories and was also lucky enough to see the NUMMI factory (Toyota/GM, now Tesla) before it closed. And that was over a decade ago, in a factory that was already decades old. Here's a similar video from Honda: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCuclAl9AGo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCuclAl9AGo What's missing from the Tesla video is arguably the most important part: the batteries.

gpt5 5y ago
The video from Honda is so much better than the one from Tesla if you are actually looking to understand what is happening. It's also crazy how much faster the Honda machinery seems to operate at (it feels as if the video is sped up).
- Atheros 5y ago
  Parts of it definitely are including the machinery. It's obvious during certain human assembly clips- humans don't move that fast. Any clips that include a swinging tool aren't sped up because the false pendulum motion would be too obvious.
jah242 5y ago
Great video but I think what this really highlighted for me is how almost comically complicated ICE engines are to put together.
- csours 5y ago
  Yes, but that happens in a different factory, similar to how batteries are not made on the same assembly line as a vehicle.
- SEJeff 5y ago
  And that’s why they break more often compared to an EV.
  - rootusrootus 5y ago
    In theory. Has that actually played out in reality yet? Teslas aren't exactly the pinnacle of reliability, and other EVs are produced in low enough volumes that it may be difficult to draw real comparisons yet. Also, most of the parts of a car that wear out are shared between EV and ICE. Modern ICE drivetrains rarely break and routinely last the lifetime of the car.
    - SEJeff 5y ago
      I mean there are very detailed overviews of Model S taxis with 400k miles on them. There are many many Model 3s with 150-200k miles on them. Anecdotally, teslas seem to last a very long time. Things that break on ICE vehicles commonly EVs don’t have: * fanbelts * flywheels * alternators * starters * spark plugs * transmissions * etc In practice, Teslas break most when other drivers hit them.
      - rootusrootus 5y ago
        There are countless examples of ICE cars going hundreds of thousands of miles, too. > In practice, Teslas break most when other drivers hit them. Have you been to a service center? They're packed, especially when compared to Tesla's market penetration. And none of the cars I saw there were wrecked. Just broken. Tesla cars will most likely last about the same length of time as a current ICE vehicle, because what mostly kills vehicles is body rot. I'm even open to the argument that Teslas will have lower average lifespan, to be honest, due to the rate of change in the EV marketplace.
        SEJeff 5y ago
        I’ve owned a Tesla model 3 since 2018, and I’ve been to service centers in two states. The recommended Tesla scheduled maintenance is every two years. The drive trains are actually engineered to last “approximately a million miles” per Musk. Even the 500,000 mile Teslas owned by taxi services have only had battery replacements, never drive train replacements, so this isn’t a lie. The battery research team includes one of the principal inventors of the lithium ion battery and he’s patented what others are calling a million mile battery. No, I don’t think Toyota drive trains are designed with quite the same longevity, though Toyotas are excellent. I had a Scion tC for years. Service centers are packed because there aren’t enough of them. If you look at the ratio of service centers to teslas on the road you’ll see the problem rather starkly… there aren’t enough of them. Tesla supplants this problem by heavily leaning on mobile service, which is awesome, but fundamentally, the service org has scaled at maybe 20-30% the speed of the manufacturing org.
bko 5y ago
Do you know how those welding arms know where to weld? Are there some special markers on the metal? Or vision? Or it's precise enough they know the actual location and just go assume it'll be correctly aligned?
- matt-attack 5y ago
  Robots like that use servo motors to precisely locate their arms. No vision is required. They’re basically going to preprogrammed positions in 3 space. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Servomotor https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Servomotor
  - manquer 5y ago
    I would expect some corrections within some tolerance to be made. These are fine operations and the piece being worked on may not be placed in the correct place to the mm, otherwise there will be constant stops and damaged parts
    - notatoad 5y ago
      servos are very precise, that's why get get used for this sort of operation. they might need to be recalibrated as the parts inside them or attatched to them get physically worn down, but that's the sort of thing that would happen during a maintenance shutdown, not inbetween each workpiece.
      - extrapickles 5y ago
        Some of them compensate for wear if the wear rate is known (eg: 1000 welds cause .5mm erosion on the electrodes). You can only do this until the tool geometry becomes unsuitable for that particular operation.
      - manquer 5y ago
        Why would you not want basic feedback loop built into a control system so it is not high maintenance? Adding a say simple laser distance measurement sensor to make sure the piece is at the distance it is supposed to be is not difficult, computer vision and AI maybe overkill but a simple sensor ? Also a lot of inspection seems to done by hand, while good inspectors can be smart about finding issues , Why not scan the entire car and see if there are abnormalities over accepted range ? it is like manual QA, I rather have automation suite rather that inconsistency of a manual process. I am sure people are already thinking about it, Musk certainly was making a big push for more automation (and ran into a ton of difficulties )
bee_rider 5y ago
Massive anthropomorphism of course, but it they machines look so wonderfully careful and attentive in this video.
Animats 5y ago
The classic in this genre is "Master Hands".[1] (1936) The assembly machinery shown starting here[2] is clearly the direct ancestor of what you see today. [1] https://youtu.be/escYIhTexDM https://youtu.be/escYIhTexDM [2] https://youtu.be/escYIhTexDM?t=1299 https://youtu.be/escYIhTexDM?t=1299
cromwellian 5y ago
Keep in mind Tesla’s factory makes the batteries and motors in the same building, it’s vertically integrated. For Ford I know these are imported from Europe and China.

by jerlam 5y ago

gpt5 5y ago

The video from Honda is so much better than the one from Tesla if you are actually looking to understand what is happening. It's also crazy how much faster the Honda machinery seems to operate at (it feels as if the video is sped up).

Atheros 5y ago
Parts of it definitely are including the machinery. It's obvious during certain human assembly clips- humans don't move that fast. Any clips that include a swinging tool aren't sped up because the false pendulum motion would be too obvious.

jah242 5y ago

Great video but I think what this really highlighted for me is how almost comically complicated ICE engines are to put together.

csours 5y ago
Yes, but that happens in a different factory, similar to how batteries are not made on the same assembly line as a vehicle.
SEJeff 5y ago
And that’s why they break more often compared to an EV.
- rootusrootus 5y ago
  In theory. Has that actually played out in reality yet? Teslas aren't exactly the pinnacle of reliability, and other EVs are produced in low enough volumes that it may be difficult to draw real comparisons yet. Also, most of the parts of a car that wear out are shared between EV and ICE. Modern ICE drivetrains rarely break and routinely last the lifetime of the car.
  - SEJeff 5y ago
    I mean there are very detailed overviews of Model S taxis with 400k miles on them. There are many many Model 3s with 150-200k miles on them. Anecdotally, teslas seem to last a very long time. Things that break on ICE vehicles commonly EVs don’t have: * fanbelts * flywheels * alternators * starters * spark plugs * transmissions * etc In practice, Teslas break most when other drivers hit them.
    - rootusrootus 5y ago
      There are countless examples of ICE cars going hundreds of thousands of miles, too. > In practice, Teslas break most when other drivers hit them. Have you been to a service center? They're packed, especially when compared to Tesla's market penetration. And none of the cars I saw there were wrecked. Just broken. Tesla cars will most likely last about the same length of time as a current ICE vehicle, because what mostly kills vehicles is body rot. I'm even open to the argument that Teslas will have lower average lifespan, to be honest, due to the rate of change in the EV marketplace.
      - SEJeff 5y ago
        I’ve owned a Tesla model 3 since 2018, and I’ve been to service centers in two states. The recommended Tesla scheduled maintenance is every two years. The drive trains are actually engineered to last “approximately a million miles” per Musk. Even the 500,000 mile Teslas owned by taxi services have only had battery replacements, never drive train replacements, so this isn’t a lie. The battery research team includes one of the principal inventors of the lithium ion battery and he’s patented what others are calling a million mile battery. No, I don’t think Toyota drive trains are designed with quite the same longevity, though Toyotas are excellent. I had a Scion tC for years. Service centers are packed because there aren’t enough of them. If you look at the ratio of service centers to teslas on the road you’ll see the problem rather starkly… there aren’t enough of them. Tesla supplants this problem by heavily leaning on mobile service, which is awesome, but fundamentally, the service org has scaled at maybe 20-30% the speed of the manufacturing org.

bko 5y ago

Do you know how those welding arms know where to weld? Are there some special markers on the metal? Or vision? Or it's precise enough they know the actual location and just go assume it'll be correctly aligned?

matt-attack 5y ago
Robots like that use servo motors to precisely locate their arms. No vision is required. They’re basically going to preprogrammed positions in 3 space. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Servomotor https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Servomotor
- manquer 5y ago
  I would expect some corrections within some tolerance to be made. These are fine operations and the piece being worked on may not be placed in the correct place to the mm, otherwise there will be constant stops and damaged parts
  - notatoad 5y ago
    servos are very precise, that's why get get used for this sort of operation. they might need to be recalibrated as the parts inside them or attatched to them get physically worn down, but that's the sort of thing that would happen during a maintenance shutdown, not inbetween each workpiece.
    - extrapickles 5y ago
      Some of them compensate for wear if the wear rate is known (eg: 1000 welds cause .5mm erosion on the electrodes). You can only do this until the tool geometry becomes unsuitable for that particular operation.
    - manquer 5y ago
      Why would you not want basic feedback loop built into a control system so it is not high maintenance? Adding a say simple laser distance measurement sensor to make sure the piece is at the distance it is supposed to be is not difficult, computer vision and AI maybe overkill but a simple sensor ? Also a lot of inspection seems to done by hand, while good inspectors can be smart about finding issues , Why not scan the entire car and see if there are abnormalities over accepted range ? it is like manual QA, I rather have automation suite rather that inconsistency of a manual process. I am sure people are already thinking about it, Musk certainly was making a big push for more automation (and ran into a ton of difficulties )

bee_rider 5y ago

Massive anthropomorphism of course, but it they machines look so wonderfully careful and attentive in this video.

Animats 5y ago

The classic in this genre is "Master Hands".[1] (1936) The assembly machinery shown starting here[2] is clearly the direct ancestor of what you see today. [1] https://youtu.be/escYIhTexDM https://youtu.be/escYIhTexDM [2] https://youtu.be/escYIhTexDM?t=1299 https://youtu.be/escYIhTexDM?t=1299

cromwellian 5y ago

Keep in mind Tesla’s factory makes the batteries and motors in the same building, it’s vertically integrated. For Ford I know these are imported from Europe and China.