10 ms·

Letter from a psychopath

310 points by bdr 15y ago

ChuckMcM 15y ago
Fascinating if it can be believed.
imperialdrive 15y ago
Fascinating indeed.
wccrawford 15y ago
"Such as statement might tempt you to say 'well obviously you're not a real psychopath then'. As if the definition of a psychopath is someone who exploits others for their personal power, satisfaction or gain. A slightly more benign (but still highly inaccurate) definition is that a psychopath is someone who feels little guilt or empathy for others. " That's not accurate at all. He wants to claim he's still a psychopath because he thinks it's made him special, but he's -not- still a psychopath. He was cured of that. He's also not the only non-psychopath with those abilities. The condition may have honed those abilities for him, but it's not the only way to obtain them.
- gnaritas 15y ago
  You can't be cured of psychopathy.
  - wccrawford 15y ago
    Argue with the article, not me. He's the one claiming to be perfectly sociable now.
    - gnaritas 15y ago
      No he didn't, he claimed to learn how to manage it; that's not a cure nor did he claim it so.
AJ007 15y ago
Its been a long while since I took psychology in college. What he was describing sounded fairly common to me as an adult. "Joseph Newman, the head of the psychology department at the University of Wisconsin-Madison estimates that up to 1 percent of the general population in the United States can be described as psychopathic(1). This means that there are among us, roughly 3 million psychopaths." If this is true, psychopaths should be concentrated heavily in certain careers such as sales.
- JonnieCache 15y ago
  There was a significant study which found higher rates of psychopathy (judged using standard psychometric scales devised by Hare et al) in high-level corporate environments than among violent criminals in prison. I don't expect you to believe me on this one, so I am furiously trying to find a reference... Hopefully I'll be back to edit with a link. EDIT: There is of course this book, written by the aforementioned Dr Hare, but still can't seem to find a paper. I remember seeing it in a recent BBC documentary on the subject, which interviewed him directly, which isn't exactly helpful. http://books.google.com/books?id=xfIEVtzj52YC http://books.google.com/books?id=xfIEVtzj52YC EDIT: AHA! Here it is: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/bsl.925/pdf http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/bsl.925/pdf "In this study, we had a unique opportunity to examine psychopathy and its correlates in a sample of 203 corporate professionals selected by their companies to participate in management development programs. The correlates included demographic and status variables, as well as in-house 360° assessments and performance ratings. The prevalence of psychopathic traits—as measured by the Psychopathy Checklist—Revised (PCL-R) and a Psychopathy Checklist: Screening Version (PCL: SV) “equivalent”—was higher than that found in community samples. The results of confirmatory factor analysis (CFA) and structural equation modeling (SEM) indicated that the underlying latent structure of psychopathy in our corporate sample was consistent with that model found in community and offender studies. Psychopathy was positively associated with in-house ratings of charisma/presentation style (creativity, good strategic thinking and communication skills) but negatively associated with ratings of responsibility/performance (being a team player, management skills, and overall accomplishments)" Looks like I misremembered the bit about a higher rate than in prisons, instead it is rather a significantly higher rate than in society at large.
fleitz 15y ago
Other than the serial killer thing and lets face it the army spends good money finding 100% sane people willing to kill lots of people, I just don't get what the big deal about psychopathy is. Most people want to feel loved or whatever the cues are for that emotion and lets face it, there is no way to "know" whether someone "loves" you. All you see are outward displays which are highly mediated by the culture in which the display occurs. Also, you're going to need people at the top with the emotional capacity to know that it's better for the group to fire 1,000 people today, rather than shut the whole concern down in 6 months. Aren't most people just failed social actors who are rather poor at picking the signs in which to display their emotional communication? Psychopathy actually makes me think far more of vulcans than ted bundy.
- burgerbrain 15y ago
  "100% sane people willing to kill lots of people" How is such a thing logically possible?
  - olalonde 15y ago
    Are you implying soldiers are not sane?
    - burgerbrain 15y ago
      I am suggesting that one cannot at the same time be "100% sane", and be willing to kill lots of people. So no, soldiers are not completely sane.
      - zerostar07 15y ago
        That's a peculiar definition of "sanity" (not that there's an objective way to define it anyway). Humans have been fighting wars since ever, just like other animals in herds. There's maybe an evolutionary advantage to it. Nations create armies to protect themselves and assert their territory (ok, nowadays it's interests). Since "sanity" is a socially defined construct, there's nothing wrong with the soldiers.
subaruWRX55 15y ago
The problem with the assumption that common people are inferior is that you will actually find proof that they are. It's a vicious cycle of self prophecy. If we treat people as they are, we make them worse. If we treat people as they ought to be, we help them become what they are capable of becoming. Johann Wolfgang vonGoethe [1749 - 1832]
Alex3917 15y ago
The other day I found a website called sociopathworld.com, their FAQ is a great read: http://www.sociopathworld.com/p/frequently-asked-questions.html http://www.sociopathworld.com/p/frequently-asked-questions.h...
jonmc12 15y ago
The designation of 'mental disorder' is largely one of subjectivity and social convention. In some contexts, lack of emotional empathy is simply a gift[1]. As is the ability to apply rational empathy to a situation. Physiological concerns aside, observed psychopathy is more or less a variation of behavior that allows the individual to apply more cerebral perceptions to social / emotional contexts. Would the world be a better place if we had more people acting like this? or the opposite case of applying social / emotional perceptions to a more cerebral context? I would argue (for many reasons) that the answer to this question is the former, whereas it has been the latter through most of human history. The capacity to act as a 'psychopath' may very well be a necessary evolution of our culture, and in fact may become a desired genetic trait in future years. More important that trying assimilate people with characteristics of psychopathy may be to foster this ability of the mind - keep children away from violence, keep young adults away from their egos. [1] From my favorite new TV psychopath personality, Robert California of the Office: "I'll tell you some thing I find unproductive. Constantly worrying about where you stand based on inscrutable social cues, and then inevitably reframing it all in a reassuring way so that you can get to sleep at night. No, I do not believe in that at all. If I invited you to lunch, I think you're a winner. If I didn't I don't. But I just met you all. Life is long, opinons change. Winners, prove me right. Losers, prove me wrong."
- andylei 15y ago
  actually, empathy is pretty great for our species as a whole. the lack of empathy is what allows psychopaths to ignore the impacts of their actions on other people. if you knew for a fact that you wouldn't experience any negative effects (like going to jail, having people label you as an outcast, etc.), would you kill a complete stranger for $100? if you had no empathy, you would.
  - adrianwaj 15y ago
    Note, in the documentary "I, Psychopath" http://youtu.be/jKvhKI6Kxew http://youtu.be/jKvhKI6Kxew they run tests in the MRI to predict psychopathy as the inability to consider future consequences on present choices. Thus, in view of this, lack of empathy is not the determining factor in psychopathy, it is lack of foresight. (perhaps it was about being oblivious to future pain - can't quite recall)
adrianwaj 15y ago
Liked it except for the last sentence, which I think is a manipulation. "In the end, psychopaths need to be given that very thing everyone believes they lack for others, empathy." Any feeling you give will be used against you in their treacherous games - you won't get true feeling back. Don't be their stepping stone.
- ams6110 15y ago
  Who's to say the entire letter isn't manipulation? After all it's written by a psychopath. "First principles, Clarice. Simplicity. Read Marcus Aurelius. Of each particular thing ask: what is it in itself? What is its nature?"
ericb 15y ago
I suspect the default state of AI would be psychopathy. As I imagine it, an AI with goals, but not morals or empathy would behave exactly like a psychopath. Maybe psychopathy is the default state and empathy and morals are just evolutionary add-ons t encourage cooperation.
- bluekeybox 15y ago
  HAL 9000 was the best depiction of a psychopathic mind in action in the history of cinema, in my opinion.
- icebraining 15y ago
  That depends on the goals; you could define the Three Laws[1] as inviolable goals. [1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Laws_of_Robotics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Laws_of_Robotics
  - ericb 15y ago
    You still end up with a psychopath with moral goals. The rules leave room for manipulation, exploiting weakness, feigning emotion without understanding, lying, etc. I think there are still more great sci-fi stories to be extrapolated from Asimov's laws.
- thomasz 15y ago
  "AIs that haven't been specifically programmed to be benevolent to humans are basically as dangerous as if they were explicitly malicious" http://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Paperclip_maximizer http://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Paperclip_maximizer
- InclinedPlane 15y ago
  I don't, and I suspect the opposite may be true. It's easy to approach this from the perspective of Star Trek or early AI thinking, but that's flawed. We don't understand consciousness at present but we do understand a little bit about cognition and emotion, and we can infer what we see based on examples. It's tempting to think that emotion is the height of human consciousness (the classic Star Trek fallacy), but this is plainly not true. Animals much less mentally adept than humans experience emotion and feelings. Indeed, it seems quite likely that such responses are easier to bootstrap than self-awareness and fully developed perception of the world. Personally I think we're more likely to see emotional robots before we see truly human level AI. There is still reason for caution of course because emotion does not rule out psychopathy. There is certainly a danger that malevolent or even merely competitive AIs could play the emotion game better than humans, and gain the upper hand (meaning: wealth, control, power, etc.) Consider how much emotion affects the entertainment industry, and the sheer amount of money involved (from TV and films to music to books to comics to games and even to restaurants and food, not to mention pornography and prostitution). Consider how much emotion plays into politics. Overall I think Blade Runner and A.I. had it more right than Star Trek or Star Wars. It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out of course.
jpdoctor 15y ago
Everyone needs to get burned by one of these guys, so that you know how to recognize it. There are some that are amazingly smooth and seem completely normal. You don't even notice until the tip of the knife is penetrating your back.
adelevie 15y ago
The letter made me think of an odd combination of Dexter and Larry David.
ahi 15y ago
"We are neither the cartoon evil serial killers, nor the 'its your boss' CEO's always chasing profit at the expense of everyone else. While we are both of those things, it is a sad caricature of itself." I have been friends with a couple people with clear sociopathic and psychopathic tendencies, and this is absolutely true. Most have been trained to seek social inclusion like the rest of us. They just suck at it. The lack of empathy is a strength while running a con or worse, but a serious handicap when trying to build long-term social relationships. It's downright pathetic to watch them attempt their social cons on people who are intelligent and self-aware. If you know your own weaknesses you know when someone is trying to attack them. When it's malicious the psychopath gets the boot fast. When it's a harmless attempt to fit in, it just puts the psychopath in the awkwardly manipulative category. The lack of empathy means they often don't know why they've been ostracized. FWIW, I have the opposite problem; a little too much empathy and guilt, but it gives me the same talent of seeing the weakness in people. Which is why I'm friends with them. They use my empathy for friendship, and I let them because it's absolutely fascinating watching them work.
- ericb 15y ago
  My suggestion, from personal experience, is to beware. When one owns a snake, there is a temptation to think he's "my" snake--he would never bite me. But he's a snake--he just may not have felt like it so far.
- jwdunne 15y ago
  Building on what you've posted, psychopaths having diminished capacity to build relationships could very well lead to depression or atleast unhappiness. I find this really interesting because we often see a psychopath represented as a remorseless beast void of any human emotions yet, looking from this perspective, it almost paints psychopathy as a dibilating disorder. I also note it probably wouldn't be correct for me to use psychopathy as the name of a disorder but it should be fine for casual discussion.
  - mannicken 15y ago
    >I find this really interesting because we often see a psychopath represented as a remorseless beast void of any human emotions yet, looking from this perspective, it almost paints psychopathy as a dibilating disorder. That is true. I only met one person who seemed to act sociopathic (as well as admitting lacking the capacity to feel empathy) and she seemed to be shut off from society. It's rather sad. Falling in love with her was a rather bad idea too :)
vadiml 15y ago
It occurs to me that the profile he dress is excellent fit for most successful political leaders
dbbo 15y ago
I don't think the term "psychopath" is used clinically anymore, except by Hare et al. who insist that there is a difference between sociopathy and psychopathy. I have read at least 5 separate explanations of the differences between the two, but I couldn't tell one from the other. Even the DSM-IV criteria for antisocial personality disorder are quite vague, as I see it. Aside from Hare, other psychologists like Millon have basically introduced their own classifications of people with antisocial tendencies. Millon's subtypes are even less useful because they overlap other personality disorders, like narcissistic, schizoid, and histrionic. But consider Mr. X, who has several characteristics of schizoid personality, was described as alexithymic by a clinical psychologist, scored an 8 Simon Baron-Cohen's Empathy quotient[1] (whereas most people with Asperger Syndrome or high-functioning autism score about 20), scored equally low on the Social Interaction Anxiety Scale (SIAS)[2]. If Mr. X shows any kind of aggression, he might very well be considered to have ASP. Without the aggression, he seems to fall somewhere in the Autism spectrum. Then there are also conduct and dissocial disorders, which have a lot in common (lying, stealing, violent behavior) with ASD. As far as I know, only the ICD-10 definition of ASD attempts to rule out conduct disorder. To me it seems like most of the terms in the antisocial realm are pretty much generic labels that aren't very useful. The "psychopath" kind of touched on that implicitly in his letter a few times. It's at least some food for thought. 1 - http://glennrowe.net/BaronCohen/EmpathyQuotient/EmpathyQuotient.aspx http://glennrowe.net/BaronCohen/EmpathyQuotient/EmpathyQuoti... (this is not a test used in clinical settings) 2 - http://cooccurring.org/public/document/sias.pdf http://cooccurring.org/public/document/sias.pdf
- vacri 15y ago
  Yes, we need to abandon 'psychopath' and 'sociopath' because they have set-in-concrete meaning for laypeple, which can only lead to misunderstanding. Separate to that, having had a background in neurology and mental health and a degree in psychology, in my opinion you will never understand mental health disorders unless you have one, live with or are very close to someone who has one, or study it specifically. But I guess what I'm getting at is that to someone with no knowledge of mental health issues, things aren't going to make sense ("Why would they do that?") because, well, mental illness is frequently highly irrational to begin with. The love affair the public media has with the 'psychopath' label does not help in the slightest. It just contributes to the 'us vs them' mentality.
lallysingh 15y ago
"I hope that it can remain confidential for the time being, seeing as it is quite personal. " Dude, wtf?
losethos 15y ago
My shrinks made me a psycopath. They do nothing but lie to me and stage skits I have to endure. They are in cahoots with my parents and I feel so betrayed. My parents are like the metal robot in Terminator 2--objects to me. I don't go out much so a high percentage of the times I leave the house, the shrinks are controlling the people around me. So, everything strange I say "just the shrinks". Everyone is a God damn puppet I'd gladly run-over if I drove -- manikins. Enemies. Everyone. They are evil fucks, the shrinks--push buttons: http://www.noob.us/humor/the-office-dwight-faces-nerd-torture-of-the-highest-form/ http://www.noob.us/humor/the-office-dwight-faces-nerd-tortur... God says... C:\TEXT\BIBLE.TXT d his speech until midnight. 20:8 And there were many lights in the upper chamber, where they were gathered together. 20:9 And there sat in a window a certain young man named Eutychus, being fallen into a deep sleep: and as Paul was long preaching, he sunk down with sleep, and fell down from the third loft, and was taken up dead. 20:10 And Paul went down, and fell on him, and embracing him said, Trouble not yourselves; for his life is in him. 20:11 When he therefore was come up again, and
namank 15y ago
I'd like to meet this person. It takes deliberate choice and a MUCH effort to act out against your nature. Though it may not be of the same degree, the effort shown here is not unlike that of a 12 year old suspected of ADD trying to do good in school. My glass is raised this person. And here is the ironic part. While the author of the letter chooses to place emotional stability over strategic ploys, most of our MBA schools, finance majors, corporate lawyers and hopeful business students want nothing more than to become what the author is coming away from.
sambeau 15y ago
For those of you taking guesses at what the current thinking is about Psychopaths, I advise watching this Ted Talk by Jim Fallon. http://www.ted.com/talks/jim_fallon_exploring_the_mind_of_a_killer.html http://www.ted.com/talks/jim_fallon_exploring_the_mind_of_a_...
dhugiaskmak 15y ago
The author of this post, Jon Ronson, wrote a book called The Psychopath Test that is a pretty good read on the subject. http://www.jonronson.com/psycho.html http://www.jonronson.com/psycho.html He also wrote The Men Who Stare at Goats, if you've read that or seen the movie.
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
danbmil99 15y ago
Dexter?
eulo 15y ago
Oh shit, I just realised I'm a psychopath...
westiseast 15y ago
this is one of the most interesting 'blog' posts I've read in a long time. Kudos to the letter-writer for exposing his own inner mind that publicly.
Jage 15y ago
Though it may seem cruel to say this in his death, looking at Steve Jobs' behavior when he was younger really makes me wonder whether he was a psychopath Anyone else see the commonalities?
jka 15y ago
I've always been interested in psychology, but I've been reading a little more recently. I think it's possible to use the concepts of 'control' and 'evolution' in relation to sociopaths; let me try to illustrate: It's so-called human nature for individuals and groups to compete over resources - water, food, shelter, even sex, and latterly, money and power. I've been wondering whether this urge to control is in fact what is behind the behaviour of sociopaths. If we always had to have remorse whenever we obtained a resource, then would we survive as a species? Of course sociopathy is a scale, not a division between 'good' and 'bad' people, but it's pretty clear from what's been going on at Wall Street (workplace of perhaps the most sociopathic group of people around) that there is a struggle going on - right now - between those in control and those who have lost power. It's interesting that as history has progressed, communication tools have continued to bring people together -- but also extend the reach of influence and control. Wars have become larger and larger as communication has sped up and reached across broader distances. What we have now seems to me, perhaps extravagantly, to be a large scale confrontation between those in power and those outside. We'll be witness to information wars - PR publications and spin, disinformation tactics, appeals to the heart - and perhaps some extreme exertion of control (note that the Occupy Boston protests have recently been suppressed by the police there -- and the Federal interpretation of the Patriot act is not standing up to scrutiny by legal questioners) This might be a form of evolutionary conflict at a grand scale and fueled by social media (the thing that is really about to bring about a social singularity, well before any technological singularity) -- and because of this, we maybe have to question the people who are in control of the social media we use. How does this relate to the original post? Note that the author is essentially arguing that psychopaths are part of humanity too and to be kept. I am not arguing that they should be controlled or destroyed; I think treatment is possible -- as does C.
queensnake 15y ago
Reminiscent of 'Blindsight', an SF novel by Peter Watts. Humans have resurrected the genes of vampires (don't stop reading! it's hard SF) who are psychopaths and humans' predators, with concomitant higher intelligence. For this intelligence and dispassion they're the perfect choice to command in life and death missions. It's a good book, and it contains a lot of the feel of this guy.
- jobeyonekenobi 15y ago
  A wonderful book - available free here: http://www.rifters.com/real/Blindsight.htm http://www.rifters.com/real/Blindsight.htm

310 points by bdr 15y ago

ChuckMcM 15y ago

Fascinating if it can be believed.

imperialdrive 15y ago

Fascinating indeed.

wccrawford 15y ago

"Such as statement might tempt you to say 'well obviously you're not a real psychopath then'. As if the definition of a psychopath is someone who exploits others for their personal power, satisfaction or gain. A slightly more benign (but still highly inaccurate) definition is that a psychopath is someone who feels little guilt or empathy for others. " That's not accurate at all. He wants to claim he's still a psychopath because he thinks it's made him special, but he's -not- still a psychopath. He was cured of that. He's also not the only non-psychopath with those abilities. The condition may have honed those abilities for him, but it's not the only way to obtain them.

gnaritas 15y ago
You can't be cured of psychopathy.
- wccrawford 15y ago
  Argue with the article, not me. He's the one claiming to be perfectly sociable now.
  - gnaritas 15y ago
    No he didn't, he claimed to learn how to manage it; that's not a cure nor did he claim it so.

AJ007 15y ago

Its been a long while since I took psychology in college. What he was describing sounded fairly common to me as an adult. "Joseph Newman, the head of the psychology department at the University of Wisconsin-Madison estimates that up to 1 percent of the general population in the United States can be described as psychopathic(1). This means that there are among us, roughly 3 million psychopaths." If this is true, psychopaths should be concentrated heavily in certain careers such as sales.

JonnieCache 15y ago
There was a significant study which found higher rates of psychopathy (judged using standard psychometric scales devised by Hare et al) in high-level corporate environments than among violent criminals in prison. I don't expect you to believe me on this one, so I am furiously trying to find a reference... Hopefully I'll be back to edit with a link. EDIT: There is of course this book, written by the aforementioned Dr Hare, but still can't seem to find a paper. I remember seeing it in a recent BBC documentary on the subject, which interviewed him directly, which isn't exactly helpful. http://books.google.com/books?id=xfIEVtzj52YC http://books.google.com/books?id=xfIEVtzj52YC EDIT: AHA! Here it is: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/bsl.925/pdf http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/bsl.925/pdf "In this study, we had a unique opportunity to examine psychopathy and its correlates in a sample of 203 corporate professionals selected by their companies to participate in management development programs. The correlates included demographic and status variables, as well as in-house 360° assessments and performance ratings. The prevalence of psychopathic traits—as measured by the Psychopathy Checklist—Revised (PCL-R) and a Psychopathy Checklist: Screening Version (PCL: SV) “equivalent”—was higher than that found in community samples. The results of confirmatory factor analysis (CFA) and structural equation modeling (SEM) indicated that the underlying latent structure of psychopathy in our corporate sample was consistent with that model found in community and offender studies. Psychopathy was positively associated with in-house ratings of charisma/presentation style (creativity, good strategic thinking and communication skills) but negatively associated with ratings of responsibility/performance (being a team player, management skills, and overall accomplishments)" Looks like I misremembered the bit about a higher rate than in prisons, instead it is rather a significantly higher rate than in society at large.

fleitz 15y ago

Other than the serial killer thing and lets face it the army spends good money finding 100% sane people willing to kill lots of people, I just don't get what the big deal about psychopathy is. Most people want to feel loved or whatever the cues are for that emotion and lets face it, there is no way to "know" whether someone "loves" you. All you see are outward displays which are highly mediated by the culture in which the display occurs. Also, you're going to need people at the top with the emotional capacity to know that it's better for the group to fire 1,000 people today, rather than shut the whole concern down in 6 months. Aren't most people just failed social actors who are rather poor at picking the signs in which to display their emotional communication? Psychopathy actually makes me think far more of vulcans than ted bundy.

burgerbrain 15y ago
"100% sane people willing to kill lots of people" How is such a thing logically possible?
- olalonde 15y ago
  Are you implying soldiers are not sane?
  - burgerbrain 15y ago
    I am suggesting that one cannot at the same time be "100% sane", and be willing to kill lots of people. So no, soldiers are not completely sane.
    - zerostar07 15y ago
      That's a peculiar definition of "sanity" (not that there's an objective way to define it anyway). Humans have been fighting wars since ever, just like other animals in herds. There's maybe an evolutionary advantage to it. Nations create armies to protect themselves and assert their territory (ok, nowadays it's interests). Since "sanity" is a socially defined construct, there's nothing wrong with the soldiers.

subaruWRX55 15y ago

The problem with the assumption that common people are inferior is that you will actually find proof that they are. It's a vicious cycle of self prophecy. If we treat people as they are, we make them worse. If we treat people as they ought to be, we help them become what they are capable of becoming. Johann Wolfgang vonGoethe [1749 - 1832]

Alex3917 15y ago

The other day I found a website called sociopathworld.com, their FAQ is a great read: http://www.sociopathworld.com/p/frequently-asked-questions.html http://www.sociopathworld.com/p/frequently-asked-questions.h...

jonmc12 15y ago

The designation of 'mental disorder' is largely one of subjectivity and social convention. In some contexts, lack of emotional empathy is simply a gift[1]. As is the ability to apply rational empathy to a situation. Physiological concerns aside, observed psychopathy is more or less a variation of behavior that allows the individual to apply more cerebral perceptions to social / emotional contexts. Would the world be a better place if we had more people acting like this? or the opposite case of applying social / emotional perceptions to a more cerebral context? I would argue (for many reasons) that the answer to this question is the former, whereas it has been the latter through most of human history. The capacity to act as a 'psychopath' may very well be a necessary evolution of our culture, and in fact may become a desired genetic trait in future years. More important that trying assimilate people with characteristics of psychopathy may be to foster this ability of the mind - keep children away from violence, keep young adults away from their egos. [1] From my favorite new TV psychopath personality, Robert California of the Office: "I'll tell you some thing I find unproductive. Constantly worrying about where you stand based on inscrutable social cues, and then inevitably reframing it all in a reassuring way so that you can get to sleep at night. No, I do not believe in that at all. If I invited you to lunch, I think you're a winner. If I didn't I don't. But I just met you all. Life is long, opinons change. Winners, prove me right. Losers, prove me wrong."

andylei 15y ago
actually, empathy is pretty great for our species as a whole. the lack of empathy is what allows psychopaths to ignore the impacts of their actions on other people. if you knew for a fact that you wouldn't experience any negative effects (like going to jail, having people label you as an outcast, etc.), would you kill a complete stranger for $100? if you had no empathy, you would.
- adrianwaj 15y ago
  Note, in the documentary "I, Psychopath" http://youtu.be/jKvhKI6Kxew http://youtu.be/jKvhKI6Kxew they run tests in the MRI to predict psychopathy as the inability to consider future consequences on present choices. Thus, in view of this, lack of empathy is not the determining factor in psychopathy, it is lack of foresight. (perhaps it was about being oblivious to future pain - can't quite recall)

adrianwaj 15y ago

Liked it except for the last sentence, which I think is a manipulation. "In the end, psychopaths need to be given that very thing everyone believes they lack for others, empathy." Any feeling you give will be used against you in their treacherous games - you won't get true feeling back. Don't be their stepping stone.

ams6110 15y ago
Who's to say the entire letter isn't manipulation? After all it's written by a psychopath. "First principles, Clarice. Simplicity. Read Marcus Aurelius. Of each particular thing ask: what is it in itself? What is its nature?"

ericb 15y ago

I suspect the default state of AI would be psychopathy. As I imagine it, an AI with goals, but not morals or empathy would behave exactly like a psychopath. Maybe psychopathy is the default state and empathy and morals are just evolutionary add-ons t encourage cooperation.

bluekeybox 15y ago
HAL 9000 was the best depiction of a psychopathic mind in action in the history of cinema, in my opinion.
icebraining 15y ago
That depends on the goals; you could define the Three Laws[1] as inviolable goals. [1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Laws_of_Robotics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Laws_of_Robotics
- ericb 15y ago
  You still end up with a psychopath with moral goals. The rules leave room for manipulation, exploiting weakness, feigning emotion without understanding, lying, etc. I think there are still more great sci-fi stories to be extrapolated from Asimov's laws.
thomasz 15y ago
"AIs that haven't been specifically programmed to be benevolent to humans are basically as dangerous as if they were explicitly malicious" http://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Paperclip_maximizer http://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Paperclip_maximizer
InclinedPlane 15y ago
I don't, and I suspect the opposite may be true. It's easy to approach this from the perspective of Star Trek or early AI thinking, but that's flawed. We don't understand consciousness at present but we do understand a little bit about cognition and emotion, and we can infer what we see based on examples. It's tempting to think that emotion is the height of human consciousness (the classic Star Trek fallacy), but this is plainly not true. Animals much less mentally adept than humans experience emotion and feelings. Indeed, it seems quite likely that such responses are easier to bootstrap than self-awareness and fully developed perception of the world. Personally I think we're more likely to see emotional robots before we see truly human level AI. There is still reason for caution of course because emotion does not rule out psychopathy. There is certainly a danger that malevolent or even merely competitive AIs could play the emotion game better than humans, and gain the upper hand (meaning: wealth, control, power, etc.) Consider how much emotion affects the entertainment industry, and the sheer amount of money involved (from TV and films to music to books to comics to games and even to restaurants and food, not to mention pornography and prostitution). Consider how much emotion plays into politics. Overall I think Blade Runner and A.I. had it more right than Star Trek or Star Wars. It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out of course.

jpdoctor 15y ago

Everyone needs to get burned by one of these guys, so that you know how to recognize it. There are some that are amazingly smooth and seem completely normal. You don't even notice until the tip of the knife is penetrating your back.

adelevie 15y ago

The letter made me think of an odd combination of Dexter and Larry David.

ahi 15y ago

"We are neither the cartoon evil serial killers, nor the 'its your boss' CEO's always chasing profit at the expense of everyone else. While we are both of those things, it is a sad caricature of itself." I have been friends with a couple people with clear sociopathic and psychopathic tendencies, and this is absolutely true. Most have been trained to seek social inclusion like the rest of us. They just suck at it. The lack of empathy is a strength while running a con or worse, but a serious handicap when trying to build long-term social relationships. It's downright pathetic to watch them attempt their social cons on people who are intelligent and self-aware. If you know your own weaknesses you know when someone is trying to attack them. When it's malicious the psychopath gets the boot fast. When it's a harmless attempt to fit in, it just puts the psychopath in the awkwardly manipulative category. The lack of empathy means they often don't know why they've been ostracized. FWIW, I have the opposite problem; a little too much empathy and guilt, but it gives me the same talent of seeing the weakness in people. Which is why I'm friends with them. They use my empathy for friendship, and I let them because it's absolutely fascinating watching them work.

ericb 15y ago
My suggestion, from personal experience, is to beware. When one owns a snake, there is a temptation to think he's "my" snake--he would never bite me. But he's a snake--he just may not have felt like it so far.
jwdunne 15y ago
Building on what you've posted, psychopaths having diminished capacity to build relationships could very well lead to depression or atleast unhappiness. I find this really interesting because we often see a psychopath represented as a remorseless beast void of any human emotions yet, looking from this perspective, it almost paints psychopathy as a dibilating disorder. I also note it probably wouldn't be correct for me to use psychopathy as the name of a disorder but it should be fine for casual discussion.
- mannicken 15y ago
  >I find this really interesting because we often see a psychopath represented as a remorseless beast void of any human emotions yet, looking from this perspective, it almost paints psychopathy as a dibilating disorder. That is true. I only met one person who seemed to act sociopathic (as well as admitting lacking the capacity to feel empathy) and she seemed to be shut off from society. It's rather sad. Falling in love with her was a rather bad idea too :)

vadiml 15y ago

It occurs to me that the profile he dress is excellent fit for most successful political leaders

dbbo 15y ago

I don't think the term "psychopath" is used clinically anymore, except by Hare et al. who insist that there is a difference between sociopathy and psychopathy. I have read at least 5 separate explanations of the differences between the two, but I couldn't tell one from the other. Even the DSM-IV criteria for antisocial personality disorder are quite vague, as I see it. Aside from Hare, other psychologists like Millon have basically introduced their own classifications of people with antisocial tendencies. Millon's subtypes are even less useful because they overlap other personality disorders, like narcissistic, schizoid, and histrionic. But consider Mr. X, who has several characteristics of schizoid personality, was described as alexithymic by a clinical psychologist, scored an 8 Simon Baron-Cohen's Empathy quotient[1] (whereas most people with Asperger Syndrome or high-functioning autism score about 20), scored equally low on the Social Interaction Anxiety Scale (SIAS)[2]. If Mr. X shows any kind of aggression, he might very well be considered to have ASP. Without the aggression, he seems to fall somewhere in the Autism spectrum. Then there are also conduct and dissocial disorders, which have a lot in common (lying, stealing, violent behavior) with ASD. As far as I know, only the ICD-10 definition of ASD attempts to rule out conduct disorder. To me it seems like most of the terms in the antisocial realm are pretty much generic labels that aren't very useful. The "psychopath" kind of touched on that implicitly in his letter a few times. It's at least some food for thought. 1 - http://glennrowe.net/BaronCohen/EmpathyQuotient/EmpathyQuotient.aspx http://glennrowe.net/BaronCohen/EmpathyQuotient/EmpathyQuoti... (this is not a test used in clinical settings) 2 - http://cooccurring.org/public/document/sias.pdf http://cooccurring.org/public/document/sias.pdf

vacri 15y ago
Yes, we need to abandon 'psychopath' and 'sociopath' because they have set-in-concrete meaning for laypeple, which can only lead to misunderstanding. Separate to that, having had a background in neurology and mental health and a degree in psychology, in my opinion you will never understand mental health disorders unless you have one, live with or are very close to someone who has one, or study it specifically. But I guess what I'm getting at is that to someone with no knowledge of mental health issues, things aren't going to make sense ("Why would they do that?") because, well, mental illness is frequently highly irrational to begin with. The love affair the public media has with the 'psychopath' label does not help in the slightest. It just contributes to the 'us vs them' mentality.

lallysingh 15y ago

"I hope that it can remain confidential for the time being, seeing as it is quite personal. " Dude, wtf?

losethos 15y ago

My shrinks made me a psycopath. They do nothing but lie to me and stage skits I have to endure. They are in cahoots with my parents and I feel so betrayed. My parents are like the metal robot in Terminator 2--objects to me. I don't go out much so a high percentage of the times I leave the house, the shrinks are controlling the people around me. So, everything strange I say "just the shrinks". Everyone is a God damn puppet I'd gladly run-over if I drove -- manikins. Enemies. Everyone. They are evil fucks, the shrinks--push buttons: http://www.noob.us/humor/the-office-dwight-faces-nerd-torture-of-the-highest-form/ http://www.noob.us/humor/the-office-dwight-faces-nerd-tortur... God says... C:\TEXT\BIBLE.TXT d his speech until midnight. 20:8 And there were many lights in the upper chamber, where they were gathered together. 20:9 And there sat in a window a certain young man named Eutychus, being fallen into a deep sleep: and as Paul was long preaching, he sunk down with sleep, and fell down from the third loft, and was taken up dead. 20:10 And Paul went down, and fell on him, and embracing him said, Trouble not yourselves; for his life is in him. 20:11 When he therefore was come up again, and

namank 15y ago

I'd like to meet this person. It takes deliberate choice and a MUCH effort to act out against your nature. Though it may not be of the same degree, the effort shown here is not unlike that of a 12 year old suspected of ADD trying to do good in school. My glass is raised this person. And here is the ironic part. While the author of the letter chooses to place emotional stability over strategic ploys, most of our MBA schools, finance majors, corporate lawyers and hopeful business students want nothing more than to become what the author is coming away from.

sambeau 15y ago

For those of you taking guesses at what the current thinking is about Psychopaths, I advise watching this Ted Talk by Jim Fallon. http://www.ted.com/talks/jim_fallon_exploring_the_mind_of_a_killer.html http://www.ted.com/talks/jim_fallon_exploring_the_mind_of_a_...

dhugiaskmak 15y ago

The author of this post, Jon Ronson, wrote a book called The Psychopath Test that is a pretty good read on the subject. http://www.jonronson.com/psycho.html http://www.jonronson.com/psycho.html He also wrote The Men Who Stare at Goats, if you've read that or seen the movie.

deleted 15y ago

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danbmil99 15y ago

Dexter?

eulo 15y ago

Oh shit, I just realised I'm a psychopath...

westiseast 15y ago

this is one of the most interesting 'blog' posts I've read in a long time. Kudos to the letter-writer for exposing his own inner mind that publicly.

Jage 15y ago

Though it may seem cruel to say this in his death, looking at Steve Jobs' behavior when he was younger really makes me wonder whether he was a psychopath Anyone else see the commonalities?

jka 15y ago

I've always been interested in psychology, but I've been reading a little more recently. I think it's possible to use the concepts of 'control' and 'evolution' in relation to sociopaths; let me try to illustrate: It's so-called human nature for individuals and groups to compete over resources - water, food, shelter, even sex, and latterly, money and power. I've been wondering whether this urge to control is in fact what is behind the behaviour of sociopaths. If we always had to have remorse whenever we obtained a resource, then would we survive as a species? Of course sociopathy is a scale, not a division between 'good' and 'bad' people, but it's pretty clear from what's been going on at Wall Street (workplace of perhaps the most sociopathic group of people around) that there is a struggle going on - right now - between those in control and those who have lost power. It's interesting that as history has progressed, communication tools have continued to bring people together -- but also extend the reach of influence and control. Wars have become larger and larger as communication has sped up and reached across broader distances. What we have now seems to me, perhaps extravagantly, to be a large scale confrontation between those in power and those outside. We'll be witness to information wars - PR publications and spin, disinformation tactics, appeals to the heart - and perhaps some extreme exertion of control (note that the Occupy Boston protests have recently been suppressed by the police there -- and the Federal interpretation of the Patriot act is not standing up to scrutiny by legal questioners) This might be a form of evolutionary conflict at a grand scale and fueled by social media (the thing that is really about to bring about a social singularity, well before any technological singularity) -- and because of this, we maybe have to question the people who are in control of the social media we use. How does this relate to the original post? Note that the author is essentially arguing that psychopaths are part of humanity too and to be kept. I am not arguing that they should be controlled or destroyed; I think treatment is possible -- as does C.

queensnake 15y ago

Reminiscent of 'Blindsight', an SF novel by Peter Watts. Humans have resurrected the genes of vampires (don't stop reading! it's hard SF) who are psychopaths and humans' predators, with concomitant higher intelligence. For this intelligence and dispassion they're the perfect choice to command in life and death missions. It's a good book, and it contains a lot of the feel of this guy.

jobeyonekenobi 15y ago
A wonderful book - available free here: http://www.rifters.com/real/Blindsight.htm http://www.rifters.com/real/Blindsight.htm