10 ms·

Leaving California? A 2022 guide to what state is best to move to

44 points by ohjeez 5y ago

ericmay 5y ago
Apologies if I missed it but curious about how much weight each factor has? Are they equal? What happens if you remove "popularity"?
- mitchbob 5y ago
  Yes, you really need to be able to specify what's important to you. Their "traditional lifestyle" factor is definitely not on my list. Also, there can be great places in what would otherwise be dismal states. New Mexico is next to last on their list, and I understand why (it's one of the poorest states), but I'd move to Santa Fe in a heartbeat. The "Where Should You Live?" quiz that the New York Times did [1] [2] is a much better design, IMO. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/11/23/opinion/sunday/best-places-live-usa-quiz.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/11/23/opinion/sunda... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/11/23/opinion/sunday/usa-best-places-quiz-methodology.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/11/23/opinion/sunda... (archived: https://archive.ph/oODZJ https://archive.ph/oODZJ )
  - ericmay 5y ago
    I liked that one a lot! It lead me to some very interesting places that I had never heard of before. Particularly in Oregon I guess. I currently live in Ohio.
  - whartung 5y ago
    I briefly considered applying for a job at the NRAO in New Mexico. Albuquerque seemed to be the nearest large town. Was pretty interested, but then it seems that "Breaking Bad" is as much a documentary as a drama, so decided against it.
    - floren 5y ago
      You should have gone for it! The VLA is in an amazingly beautiful region. I camped near there once and had the darkest skies I'd ever witnessed, and I saw a massive fireball meteor. Socorro is the nearest proper town to the VLA, with about 9000 residents. It's home to New Mexico Tech. Albuquerque is about an hour's drive from Socorro. I lived in Albuquerque for five years, and four of those years I lived about a mile away from the Breaking Bad car wash... by the time I left, the RV tours were finally starting to trickle off :) Frankly, I found it a pretty pleasant place to live and I'd pick it over the SF area any day. People joke about "the war zone" down by the fairgrounds, and yeah that's probably the roughest part of town, but it's a small region and it still feels less sketchy that many portions of the bay area (I sure as shit never saw anybody smoking fentanyl out on the sidewalks). Almost any part of town north of I-40 is a decent place to live, and big chunks of the city south of I-40 are quite nice too. The natural beauty, and the accessibility of said beauty, is incredible. I lived in the middle of town and could be hiking up the Sandia mountains within 10 minutes. In California, if you want to even dream of camping somewhere, you better have 3 different permits applied for months in advance; in New Mexico, you just go, and maybe you have to drop $5 in the kiosk when you get there. Hunting was amazing; wildlife in general was amazing. One night I hiked up the side of a mountain, slung my hammock, and woke to elk bugling all around me.
  - madcaptenor 5y ago
    States aren't really a meaningful unit here. On the other hand, the New York Times quiz can end up giving a list of random suburbs that don't have much of an identity fo their own. I think either counties or metro areas are the right level of granularity here. (You'd have to come up with some way to partition the non-metropolitan places.) (I live just outside Atlanta. That is more meaningful, for someone relocating here, than saying that I live in Georgia or that I live in the particular town I live in.) I do wonder if there's any real demand for customizable versions of this - allowing you to choose which variables matter to you - or if it's just something that people play with.
    - lotsofpulp 5y ago
      States are especially meaningful here. I chose my state based on the pro worker laws it has (I benefited from being able to get more parental leave), less per taxpayer debt burden which result in lower taxes from things like underfunded pension debt which I do not benefit from, and pro women's right's laws (I have a wife and daughter who benefit from access to abortions and women's healthcare in general). There is also Medicaid to think about which is also on a state level.
      - madcaptenor 5y ago
        OK, those are all good points. But I think it's misleading to present an analysis that groups everything by state. I think what I want is an analysis that brings in state-level variables like you mentioned but doesn't just spit out a score for each state.
        ericmay 5y ago
        I had a startup idea around this. I'd like to make the home search much more personalized. I don't care about exact square footage, but I do care about parks, civic associations, etc. Why can't we find a way to get neighborhoods and housing areas to compete for residents and help people find the home that best suits them? Companies like Zillow are just 1990s Real Estate with a UI and better search. That's great, but if you don't know the area I'm not sure how you're really learning anything from Zillow.
  - onecommentman 5y ago
    “New Mexico is next to last on their list…”. If this means NM won’t attract the sorts of people who make life decisions based on media like this, it should be more widely circulated. It is this decade’s “Breaking Bad” for NM. If you are the sort of person who makes life decisions based on where TV shows are shot, NM isn’t really for you. Someone might write a comic book about how great Arkansas is, and you’d be forced to move again. A word to the wise: always poke around in how they measure attributes, how they weight the attributes, and how they combine them in a single score (or sub-score). In the 1970s, there was published a Places Rated Almanac for US cities, by a NYC-based publisher. NYC (in the era of the burning Bronx) was inexplicably rated in the top ten…maybe top five. I looked deeper and saw they took, say, the crime statistics and simply truncated them, uniquely, for NYC. NYC was actually, say, 13 for crime and they said, well that’s too high, we’ll count it as 5. No justification at all. The fix was in. Find your querencia and you’ll be happy.
mikestew 5y ago
https://archive.ph/OlfPi https://archive.ph/OlfPi
ehutch79 5y ago
It says this content is not available in my region. Which is ironic because I'm sitting in orange county.
- fictionfuture 5y ago
  South Orange county is where people should go; if taxes aren't the reason for leaving ...
  - anonporridge 5y ago
    This is the white answer.
logicalmonster 5y ago
Why are so many people seeking to leave a state with such beautiful nature and great weather?
- frankbreetz 5y ago
  because they can't afford to live there
  - awb 5y ago
    California is huge with many inexpensive places to live. However the coast and some of the more desirable interior are very expensive.
    - pbuzbee 5y ago
      Pretty much anywhere in California that's a desirable place to live with reasonable job prospects has a high cost of living.
    - supertofu 5y ago
      Those inexpensive places to live are inexpensive for a very good reason. They are often very unsafe and undesirable. Everywhere good in California has been claimed :-(
      - awb 5y ago
        Depends on your definition of undesirable. There are many remote, hilly towns if you enjoy nature and potentially living off-grid. But yeah, if you're looking for sun, water sports & nightlife in CA, it's going to be very expensive.
- zapdrive 5y ago
  - testbjjl 5y ago
psadauskas 5y ago
Oh good, Colorado isn't on that list. We're full anyways, we've got enough Californians here driving up housing prices already.
- onlyrealcuzzo 5y ago
  > We're full anyways > As a result of these land conditions, there are approximately 52 people per square mile (19.9 per square kilometer) and that makes Colorado only the 37th biggest state in terms of population density.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - b3morales 5y ago
    Colorado isn't a small state, but is that "raw" square miles, or square miles accounting for reserved land and natural features that make it uninhabitable?
    - onlyrealcuzzo 5y ago
      Colorado is not running out of room. Even if 80% of the state is mountains (it's not) - 260 people per square mile is STILL nothing. Massachusetts has 800+ people per square mile, and Massachusetts isn't "full".
      - jkmcf 5y ago
        If you saw Colorado sprawl, you'd say it's nigh impossible to increase the density, but that's an American problem in general. More problematic is we are all out of water. Water rights and laws here means you might own the land but not the water (nor anything else under the shitty topsoil), if there even is water. Lots of land for sale with no mention of water.
- bkjelden 5y ago
  Eh, I feel like Colorado draws more people from the east coast than from California. Winters here scare off a lot of lifelong Californians, but they will be a piece of cake for anyone coming from the northeast.
awb 5y ago
For those looking for a gradual change, the Eastern shore of Lake Tahoe is in Nevada (which is predominantly libertarian/ conservative outside of the major cities: Reno & LV), yet it’s minutes from California and shares the same climate and landscape as the California Sierras. Lots of outdoor activities at the lake and ski mountains. Plus, no income tax. And, Reno and Sacramento are within 1-2hrs depending on your location, for a mid-size airport. Housing is still really expensive, but a couple steps below Silicon Valley.
- mcntsh 5y ago
  Call me what you will, but I really dislike Lake Tahoe post-pandemic. It's always been a place primarily of second homes, but it definitely feels richer and snootier now... like Aspen.
  - jeffbee 5y ago
    It has been called “Income Village” for decades.
- ryandrake 5y ago
  It's surprising, at least to me, how un-built-up the Eastern short of Tahoe is. We briefly entertained the fantasy of moving to Tahoe when the pandemic hit. For obvious tax reasons, you would think everyone would be living on the NV side, but when you actually go there, or just putz around on Zillow, almost all of the actual homes and activity is on the (more expensive COL) California side. Why is that? We still love the area and would entertain the idea of moving there now that remote work is happening in more places, but housing prices went from outrageous pre-pandemic to oh-my-fucking-god post-pandemic so sadly it will probably remain a tourist destination for my family.
  - awb 5y ago
    > almost all of the actual homes and activity is on the (more expensive COL) California side. Why is that? The NV side is pretty rugged and what buildable land there is is also shared with resorts / casinos. Otherwise, you pretty much have to go to the North Shore and Incline Village, but that's a tax haven with some real fancy homes driving up prices. From Zephyr Cove to Incline is really steep and large parts are State Parks or Forest Service land, so aren't buildable. > but housing prices went from outrageous pre-pandemic to oh-my-fucking-god post-pandemic Yes, everything is about 2x what is was 7 years ago. The most affordable family homes are in Zephyr Cove and up Kingsbury Grade in Stateline. The county also recently passed a restrictive vacation rental law, so many folks will see their short-term rental permits expire (or continue at reduced capacity) throughout this year, which might drive prices down, in addition to rising interest rates. Also, NV houses are about 10-20% more expensive than the CA houses because of the tax benefits of Nevada.
karaterobot 5y ago
Who else clicked on that article while thinking "please don't say my state, please don't say my state"?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- nikodunk 5y ago
  What’s your state?
- SllX 5y ago
  Florida, Texas, Oregon, Washington, Utah, Nevada, Colorado, Alaska, Hawaii and maybe even Tennessee. I’m not pulling that from the article, but did I hit one of yours?
  - the_only_law 5y ago
    I’ll gladly trade someone a spot in Florida. I’m ready to go somewhere with seasons.
    - taylodl 5y ago
      That's why I ruled out Florida as a place to move to: no seasons. I'm looking for milder winters, but not no winter at all. Southern Tennessee looks attractive, specifically Chattanooga.
      - the_only_law 5y ago
        I’ve only ever passed through but I’ve heard great things about Chattanooga for years.
      - madcaptenor 5y ago
        I live near Atlanta. There are definitely seasons even this far south (although our "winters" are kind of a joke).
m_ke 5y ago
Now that everyone is used to remote I'm considering moving to Europe or Central America.
smm11 5y ago
Show me the ex-Californian who moved to the middle of the country who wasn't surprised, and a bit upset, by the weather a few months later. "Snow" is not Big Bear on a sunny Saturday afternoon.
dxbydt 5y ago
Sometimes when I want some informed commentary with supporting analytics on which database to use, which JS framework offers the most functionality, which saas offers most bang for the buck etc...I turn to the orange website. Somehow, that level of informed commentary isn't forthcoming on genuinely useful topics like Leaving CA. Why is that ?
- paxys 5y ago
  Too much politics
- xboxnolifes 5y ago
  For the same reason that the orange website constantly says that being an expert in one field doesn't necessarily make you one in another. Even if some people think that having a "programmer brain" enables you to have a higher understanding of all things.
jdhn 5y ago
I don't understand how Nevada or Texas are ranked lower than Florida. Nevada was filling up with Cali expats years before the pandemic (Tahoe for those with money and Reno/Vegas for those with less money), and Austin has been a draw for those in tech seeking cheaper digs for years. Miami and the Tampa Bay area usually aren't big draws for Californians, that's more of a Northeast/Midwest movement thing.
- anamax 5y ago
  > Nevada was filling up with Cali expats years before the pandemic I like Nevada but it gets a lot of CA expats because it was "close enough" for many purposes. "close enough" is starting to encompass longer distances.
- the_only_law 5y ago
  I will never understand the recent appeal and hype for Florida, except for old expats from the northeast with plenty of cash in their pocket. I’m from the south, born and lived all my life in various states in the Southeast, and I can say Florida is too hot for me. Hot summers are one thing, hot 75%of the year is something else. Housing is cheaper than some states for sure, but almost any bordering states can get you a better value for your money. Also, for the third largest economy in the US, the job market sucks. I’d say even Atlanta is probably a better option m, or even the Raleigh are if you’re looking for a proper “tech city”. I guess with remote work this is less of an issue, but even then… There’s politics, but then again, you have the entire southeast as well if that’s what you’re after. One thing I will say is nice is no state income tax. A handful of other states have this as well though, and TX or WA just seen a better choice depending on what you’re looking for.
supercanuck 5y ago
People in Oregon and Washington have been complaining about the influx of Californians for 30+ years.
PyWoody 5y ago
> No. 4 New Hampshire’s low cost of living got it a No. 1 for wealth. Yikes. Sure, we don't have income tax or sales tax but be prepared to pay out the ass on property taxes. Oh, and be ready to pay for heat ten months out of the year. NH has been a brain-drain state ever since people discovered the land is full of rocks and there are better opportunities elsewhere. The wages are low, the cost of living is high relative to wages, and land/real estate has always been expensive. It's a old state with most of it already being divvied up. For instance, my 3 bed, 1 bath home out in bumfuck has more than doubled in price since I bought just five years ago.
- skrtskrt 5y ago
  People love to not include property tax when pushing these narratives. Texas has a higher total tax burden for poor and middle class than California, and a lot of that is hidden in the property tax
  - bilbo0s 5y ago
    The Texas property tax thing is no joke. If you're not from a high property tax state, coming into Texas can be a bit of a jolt. I do think there are states out there with higher property taxes? Those are the people who might find Texas property "cheap". Texas definitely has a lot of "gotchas" that you need to be ready for.
    - PyWoody 5y ago
      New Hampshire taxes views. As in, if you can you see a sliver of a mountain or lake through a bathroom window, that'll increase your taxes.
  - Ferrotin 5y ago
    You pay far less in rent or mortgage plus tax though.
    - skrtskrt 5y ago
      True, but when the article is about tax burden, they should be honest about the tax burden. Someone concerned about tax burden can probably figure out that rent is higher in LA than in Houston.
ArtWomb 5y ago
Am spending more time in N. VA area and the growth is shear insanity. National Landing is attractive for a good reason: ultra fast internet. "Southern Living" I believe comes down to land, and building your dream house. And that's what people do, they build their own mini fiefdoms. Every neighbor alienated from each other in their private mini country club. With the desolation of cities, it seems inevitable here: the home becomes the sphere of convergence: school, work, church, theatre.
gregors 5y ago
Definitely check out Chattanooga, TN and Knoxville, TN Chattanooga has a great tech and outdoor sports (rock climbing and whitewater) and the fastest municipal internet in the country. https://epb.com/fi-speed-internet/ https://epb.com/fi-speed-internet/ Knoxville - with Oak Ridge National Lab nearby has some amazing supercomputers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summit_(supercomputer) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summit_(supercomputer). They are also in the process of rolling out municipal internet, with the Great Smoky Mountains National Park nearby.
- the_only_law 5y ago
  Oh wow I completely forgot about Oak Ridge National Laboratory. Normally I wouldn’t care for Knoxville. It reminds me of a similar sized city I didn’t care for.
- taylodl 5y ago
  Do you live in either of those cities? I'm wanting to check out Chattanooga in part for the reasons you mention.
- lostmsu 5y ago
  How are these two on schools?
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
bradlys 5y ago
People think moving to Washington is #1 are truly inept. If you love overcast weather for 9 months out of the year, if you love knowing that your summers will still have overcast weather and there’s a chance the sun won’t happen that year, and that you will be enduring forest fires and freak weather (115F) more often in the future… sure, go for WA. I know people who grew up in AZ and want nothing more than drizzly rain and overcast weather and to stay indoors 99/100 days because they grew up in 120f weather with a baking sun and decided to become a vampire. If you’re not them - it’s not great. If you don’t love overcast weather - it’s not great. Again - it selects a certain personality. People who love rain, hate snow, and hate sun. Source: lived there and now live in SF. Would not recommend Washington. (Or Portland or Oregon in general) Truth is - if you’re wanting to leave CA because you want real change - probably move to the east coast. It’ll be quite different. Living in the PNW will be the same but more shitty weather. (If you’re a vampire - go for it…)

44 points by ohjeez 5y ago

Apologies if I missed it but curious about how much weight each factor has? Are they equal? What happens if you remove "popularity"?

mitchbob 5y ago
Yes, you really need to be able to specify what's important to you. Their "traditional lifestyle" factor is definitely not on my list. Also, there can be great places in what would otherwise be dismal states. New Mexico is next to last on their list, and I understand why (it's one of the poorest states), but I'd move to Santa Fe in a heartbeat. The "Where Should You Live?" quiz that the New York Times did [1] [2] is a much better design, IMO. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/11/23/opinion/sunday/best-places-live-usa-quiz.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/11/23/opinion/sunda... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/11/23/opinion/sunday/usa-best-places-quiz-methodology.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/11/23/opinion/sunda... (archived: https://archive.ph/oODZJ https://archive.ph/oODZJ )
- ericmay 5y ago
  I liked that one a lot! It lead me to some very interesting places that I had never heard of before. Particularly in Oregon I guess. I currently live in Ohio.
- whartung 5y ago
  I briefly considered applying for a job at the NRAO in New Mexico. Albuquerque seemed to be the nearest large town. Was pretty interested, but then it seems that "Breaking Bad" is as much a documentary as a drama, so decided against it.
  - floren 5y ago
    You should have gone for it! The VLA is in an amazingly beautiful region. I camped near there once and had the darkest skies I'd ever witnessed, and I saw a massive fireball meteor. Socorro is the nearest proper town to the VLA, with about 9000 residents. It's home to New Mexico Tech. Albuquerque is about an hour's drive from Socorro. I lived in Albuquerque for five years, and four of those years I lived about a mile away from the Breaking Bad car wash... by the time I left, the RV tours were finally starting to trickle off :) Frankly, I found it a pretty pleasant place to live and I'd pick it over the SF area any day. People joke about "the war zone" down by the fairgrounds, and yeah that's probably the roughest part of town, but it's a small region and it still feels less sketchy that many portions of the bay area (I sure as shit never saw anybody smoking fentanyl out on the sidewalks). Almost any part of town north of I-40 is a decent place to live, and big chunks of the city south of I-40 are quite nice too. The natural beauty, and the accessibility of said beauty, is incredible. I lived in the middle of town and could be hiking up the Sandia mountains within 10 minutes. In California, if you want to even dream of camping somewhere, you better have 3 different permits applied for months in advance; in New Mexico, you just go, and maybe you have to drop $5 in the kiosk when you get there. Hunting was amazing; wildlife in general was amazing. One night I hiked up the side of a mountain, slung my hammock, and woke to elk bugling all around me.
- madcaptenor 5y ago
  States aren't really a meaningful unit here. On the other hand, the New York Times quiz can end up giving a list of random suburbs that don't have much of an identity fo their own. I think either counties or metro areas are the right level of granularity here. (You'd have to come up with some way to partition the non-metropolitan places.) (I live just outside Atlanta. That is more meaningful, for someone relocating here, than saying that I live in Georgia or that I live in the particular town I live in.) I do wonder if there's any real demand for customizable versions of this - allowing you to choose which variables matter to you - or if it's just something that people play with.
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    States are especially meaningful here. I chose my state based on the pro worker laws it has (I benefited from being able to get more parental leave), less per taxpayer debt burden which result in lower taxes from things like underfunded pension debt which I do not benefit from, and pro women's right's laws (I have a wife and daughter who benefit from access to abortions and women's healthcare in general). There is also Medicaid to think about which is also on a state level.
    - madcaptenor 5y ago
      OK, those are all good points. But I think it's misleading to present an analysis that groups everything by state. I think what I want is an analysis that brings in state-level variables like you mentioned but doesn't just spit out a score for each state.
      - ericmay 5y ago
        I had a startup idea around this. I'd like to make the home search much more personalized. I don't care about exact square footage, but I do care about parks, civic associations, etc. Why can't we find a way to get neighborhoods and housing areas to compete for residents and help people find the home that best suits them? Companies like Zillow are just 1990s Real Estate with a UI and better search. That's great, but if you don't know the area I'm not sure how you're really learning anything from Zillow.
- onecommentman 5y ago
  “New Mexico is next to last on their list…”. If this means NM won’t attract the sorts of people who make life decisions based on media like this, it should be more widely circulated. It is this decade’s “Breaking Bad” for NM. If you are the sort of person who makes life decisions based on where TV shows are shot, NM isn’t really for you. Someone might write a comic book about how great Arkansas is, and you’d be forced to move again. A word to the wise: always poke around in how they measure attributes, how they weight the attributes, and how they combine them in a single score (or sub-score). In the 1970s, there was published a Places Rated Almanac for US cities, by a NYC-based publisher. NYC (in the era of the burning Bronx) was inexplicably rated in the top ten…maybe top five. I looked deeper and saw they took, say, the crime statistics and simply truncated them, uniquely, for NYC. NYC was actually, say, 13 for crime and they said, well that’s too high, we’ll count it as 5. No justification at all. The fix was in. Find your querencia and you’ll be happy.

mikestew 5y ago

https://archive.ph/OlfPi https://archive.ph/OlfPi

ehutch79 5y ago

It says this content is not available in my region. Which is ironic because I'm sitting in orange county.

fictionfuture 5y ago
South Orange county is where people should go; if taxes aren't the reason for leaving ...
- anonporridge 5y ago
  This is the white answer.

logicalmonster 5y ago

Why are so many people seeking to leave a state with such beautiful nature and great weather?

frankbreetz 5y ago
because they can't afford to live there
- awb 5y ago
  California is huge with many inexpensive places to live. However the coast and some of the more desirable interior are very expensive.
  - pbuzbee 5y ago
    Pretty much anywhere in California that's a desirable place to live with reasonable job prospects has a high cost of living.
  - supertofu 5y ago
    Those inexpensive places to live are inexpensive for a very good reason. They are often very unsafe and undesirable. Everywhere good in California has been claimed :-(
    - awb 5y ago
      Depends on your definition of undesirable. There are many remote, hilly towns if you enjoy nature and potentially living off-grid. But yeah, if you're looking for sun, water sports & nightlife in CA, it's going to be very expensive.
zapdrive 5y ago
- testbjjl 5y ago

psadauskas 5y ago

Oh good, Colorado isn't on that list. We're full anyways, we've got enough Californians here driving up housing prices already.

onlyrealcuzzo 5y ago
> We're full anyways > As a result of these land conditions, there are approximately 52 people per square mile (19.9 per square kilometer) and that makes Colorado only the 37th biggest state in terms of population density.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- b3morales 5y ago
  Colorado isn't a small state, but is that "raw" square miles, or square miles accounting for reserved land and natural features that make it uninhabitable?
  - onlyrealcuzzo 5y ago
    Colorado is not running out of room. Even if 80% of the state is mountains (it's not) - 260 people per square mile is STILL nothing. Massachusetts has 800+ people per square mile, and Massachusetts isn't "full".
    - jkmcf 5y ago
      If you saw Colorado sprawl, you'd say it's nigh impossible to increase the density, but that's an American problem in general. More problematic is we are all out of water. Water rights and laws here means you might own the land but not the water (nor anything else under the shitty topsoil), if there even is water. Lots of land for sale with no mention of water.
bkjelden 5y ago
Eh, I feel like Colorado draws more people from the east coast than from California. Winters here scare off a lot of lifelong Californians, but they will be a piece of cake for anyone coming from the northeast.

awb 5y ago

For those looking for a gradual change, the Eastern shore of Lake Tahoe is in Nevada (which is predominantly libertarian/ conservative outside of the major cities: Reno & LV), yet it’s minutes from California and shares the same climate and landscape as the California Sierras. Lots of outdoor activities at the lake and ski mountains. Plus, no income tax. And, Reno and Sacramento are within 1-2hrs depending on your location, for a mid-size airport. Housing is still really expensive, but a couple steps below Silicon Valley.

mcntsh 5y ago
Call me what you will, but I really dislike Lake Tahoe post-pandemic. It's always been a place primarily of second homes, but it definitely feels richer and snootier now... like Aspen.
- jeffbee 5y ago
  It has been called “Income Village” for decades.
ryandrake 5y ago
It's surprising, at least to me, how un-built-up the Eastern short of Tahoe is. We briefly entertained the fantasy of moving to Tahoe when the pandemic hit. For obvious tax reasons, you would think everyone would be living on the NV side, but when you actually go there, or just putz around on Zillow, almost all of the actual homes and activity is on the (more expensive COL) California side. Why is that? We still love the area and would entertain the idea of moving there now that remote work is happening in more places, but housing prices went from outrageous pre-pandemic to oh-my-fucking-god post-pandemic so sadly it will probably remain a tourist destination for my family.
- awb 5y ago
  > almost all of the actual homes and activity is on the (more expensive COL) California side. Why is that? The NV side is pretty rugged and what buildable land there is is also shared with resorts / casinos. Otherwise, you pretty much have to go to the North Shore and Incline Village, but that's a tax haven with some real fancy homes driving up prices. From Zephyr Cove to Incline is really steep and large parts are State Parks or Forest Service land, so aren't buildable. > but housing prices went from outrageous pre-pandemic to oh-my-fucking-god post-pandemic Yes, everything is about 2x what is was 7 years ago. The most affordable family homes are in Zephyr Cove and up Kingsbury Grade in Stateline. The county also recently passed a restrictive vacation rental law, so many folks will see their short-term rental permits expire (or continue at reduced capacity) throughout this year, which might drive prices down, in addition to rising interest rates. Also, NV houses are about 10-20% more expensive than the CA houses because of the tax benefits of Nevada.

karaterobot 5y ago

Who else clicked on that article while thinking "please don't say my state, please don't say my state"?

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
nikodunk 5y ago
What’s your state?
SllX 5y ago
Florida, Texas, Oregon, Washington, Utah, Nevada, Colorado, Alaska, Hawaii and maybe even Tennessee. I’m not pulling that from the article, but did I hit one of yours?
- the_only_law 5y ago
  I’ll gladly trade someone a spot in Florida. I’m ready to go somewhere with seasons.
  - taylodl 5y ago
    That's why I ruled out Florida as a place to move to: no seasons. I'm looking for milder winters, but not no winter at all. Southern Tennessee looks attractive, specifically Chattanooga.
    - the_only_law 5y ago
      I’ve only ever passed through but I’ve heard great things about Chattanooga for years.
    - madcaptenor 5y ago
      I live near Atlanta. There are definitely seasons even this far south (although our "winters" are kind of a joke).

m_ke 5y ago

Now that everyone is used to remote I'm considering moving to Europe or Central America.

smm11 5y ago

Show me the ex-Californian who moved to the middle of the country who wasn't surprised, and a bit upset, by the weather a few months later. "Snow" is not Big Bear on a sunny Saturday afternoon.

dxbydt 5y ago

Sometimes when I want some informed commentary with supporting analytics on which database to use, which JS framework offers the most functionality, which saas offers most bang for the buck etc...I turn to the orange website. Somehow, that level of informed commentary isn't forthcoming on genuinely useful topics like Leaving CA. Why is that ?

paxys 5y ago
Too much politics
xboxnolifes 5y ago
For the same reason that the orange website constantly says that being an expert in one field doesn't necessarily make you one in another. Even if some people think that having a "programmer brain" enables you to have a higher understanding of all things.

jdhn 5y ago

I don't understand how Nevada or Texas are ranked lower than Florida. Nevada was filling up with Cali expats years before the pandemic (Tahoe for those with money and Reno/Vegas for those with less money), and Austin has been a draw for those in tech seeking cheaper digs for years. Miami and the Tampa Bay area usually aren't big draws for Californians, that's more of a Northeast/Midwest movement thing.

anamax 5y ago
> Nevada was filling up with Cali expats years before the pandemic I like Nevada but it gets a lot of CA expats because it was "close enough" for many purposes. "close enough" is starting to encompass longer distances.
the_only_law 5y ago
I will never understand the recent appeal and hype for Florida, except for old expats from the northeast with plenty of cash in their pocket. I’m from the south, born and lived all my life in various states in the Southeast, and I can say Florida is too hot for me. Hot summers are one thing, hot 75%of the year is something else. Housing is cheaper than some states for sure, but almost any bordering states can get you a better value for your money. Also, for the third largest economy in the US, the job market sucks. I’d say even Atlanta is probably a better option m, or even the Raleigh are if you’re looking for a proper “tech city”. I guess with remote work this is less of an issue, but even then… There’s politics, but then again, you have the entire southeast as well if that’s what you’re after. One thing I will say is nice is no state income tax. A handful of other states have this as well though, and TX or WA just seen a better choice depending on what you’re looking for.

supercanuck 5y ago

People in Oregon and Washington have been complaining about the influx of Californians for 30+ years.

PyWoody 5y ago

> No. 4 New Hampshire’s low cost of living got it a No. 1 for wealth. Yikes. Sure, we don't have income tax or sales tax but be prepared to pay out the ass on property taxes. Oh, and be ready to pay for heat ten months out of the year. NH has been a brain-drain state ever since people discovered the land is full of rocks and there are better opportunities elsewhere. The wages are low, the cost of living is high relative to wages, and land/real estate has always been expensive. It's a old state with most of it already being divvied up. For instance, my 3 bed, 1 bath home out in bumfuck has more than doubled in price since I bought just five years ago.

skrtskrt 5y ago
People love to not include property tax when pushing these narratives. Texas has a higher total tax burden for poor and middle class than California, and a lot of that is hidden in the property tax
- bilbo0s 5y ago
  The Texas property tax thing is no joke. If you're not from a high property tax state, coming into Texas can be a bit of a jolt. I do think there are states out there with higher property taxes? Those are the people who might find Texas property "cheap". Texas definitely has a lot of "gotchas" that you need to be ready for.
  - PyWoody 5y ago
    New Hampshire taxes views. As in, if you can you see a sliver of a mountain or lake through a bathroom window, that'll increase your taxes.
- Ferrotin 5y ago
  You pay far less in rent or mortgage plus tax though.
  - skrtskrt 5y ago
    True, but when the article is about tax burden, they should be honest about the tax burden. Someone concerned about tax burden can probably figure out that rent is higher in LA than in Houston.

ArtWomb 5y ago

Am spending more time in N. VA area and the growth is shear insanity. National Landing is attractive for a good reason: ultra fast internet. "Southern Living" I believe comes down to land, and building your dream house. And that's what people do, they build their own mini fiefdoms. Every neighbor alienated from each other in their private mini country club. With the desolation of cities, it seems inevitable here: the home becomes the sphere of convergence: school, work, church, theatre.

gregors 5y ago

Definitely check out Chattanooga, TN and Knoxville, TN Chattanooga has a great tech and outdoor sports (rock climbing and whitewater) and the fastest municipal internet in the country. https://epb.com/fi-speed-internet/ https://epb.com/fi-speed-internet/ Knoxville - with Oak Ridge National Lab nearby has some amazing supercomputers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summit_(supercomputer) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summit_(supercomputer). They are also in the process of rolling out municipal internet, with the Great Smoky Mountains National Park nearby.

the_only_law 5y ago
Oh wow I completely forgot about Oak Ridge National Laboratory. Normally I wouldn’t care for Knoxville. It reminds me of a similar sized city I didn’t care for.
taylodl 5y ago
Do you live in either of those cities? I'm wanting to check out Chattanooga in part for the reasons you mention.
lostmsu 5y ago
How are these two on schools?

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bradlys 5y ago

People think moving to Washington is #1 are truly inept. If you love overcast weather for 9 months out of the year, if you love knowing that your summers will still have overcast weather and there’s a chance the sun won’t happen that year, and that you will be enduring forest fires and freak weather (115F) more often in the future… sure, go for WA. I know people who grew up in AZ and want nothing more than drizzly rain and overcast weather and to stay indoors 99/100 days because they grew up in 120f weather with a baking sun and decided to become a vampire. If you’re not them - it’s not great. If you don’t love overcast weather - it’s not great. Again - it selects a certain personality. People who love rain, hate snow, and hate sun. Source: lived there and now live in SF. Would not recommend Washington. (Or Portland or Oregon in general) Truth is - if you’re wanting to leave CA because you want real change - probably move to the east coast. It’ll be quite different. Living in the PNW will be the same but more shitty weather. (If you’re a vampire - go for it…)