6 ms·

From a quick look at the article, I can see a few subtle "omissions" or "rants that have easy fixes". I can't tell how long the author has spent on Windows (it'

by jmmv 5y ago

From a quick look at the article, I can see a few subtle "omissions" or "rants that have easy fixes". I can't tell how long the author has spent on Windows (it's not in the article) so it's hard to know how much effort they have put in getting adjusted. It takes a really long time to switch platforms and feel comfortable in them, and without spending a long time adjusting, it's too easy to complain and quite hard to provide a fair review... For a more positive spin, I'll leave here my own review of Windows after being off the platform for 25 years, spending 15 of those on macOS, and then spending the last year primarily on Windows. TL;DR: I'm quite happy with the switch, but obviously there are many things that could be different/better and some of the issues that the OP highlights are valid. The intro and index: https://jmmv.dev/2022/03/a-year-on-windows-intro.html https://jmmv.dev/2022/03/a-year-on-windows-intro.html [edit: wording]

wiz21c 5y ago
Funny, I've read the "finale" part and the PowerShell part. When I read you, my fealing is that PowerShell is not there yet and telemetry and Defender have big issues (telemetry 'cos it allow MSFT to remove feature, spy on me) and Defender ('cos sometimes it just eats my time)... As a dev/data scientist/netflix/websurfer/photo-sorter/privacy-aware dude, well, my Linux box just rocks and Windows is not fun (although it does the job).
- aerique 5y ago
  Perhaps PowerShell will be ready in the same year as Linux for the Desktop?
  - majkinetor 5y ago
  - _carbyau_ 5y ago
    Powershell runs on linux too so it can be the Year for both of them!
- guessbest 5y ago
  This is basically required software for windows10 : O&O ShutUp10++ https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10 https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10 I will say in windows defense that the linux kernel seems to need updates almost every week requiring a reboot.
  - sph 5y ago
    The linux kernel updates every day, yes, but unless there's a security issue, you don't _have to_ reboot into every new kernel your distribution pushes. Certainly no one forces you to.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - marssaxman 5y ago
      Why does it nag me so often, then?
      - Shared404 5y ago
        Because Ubuntu is trying as hard as it can to turn into Windows-but-with-the-Linux-kernel.
        GekkePrutser 5y ago
        Indeed, it sometimes feels like they are getting right in lane for a Microsoft acquisition. I'm kinda surprised it hasn't happened with all the mutual love (eg Ubuntu being the poster child for WSL)
        Gollapalli 5y ago
        This drives me nuts and I wish I could turn it off. To be fair, it doesn't bug me when I use stumpwm instead of the default WM, but the default WM is otherwise quite nice for most things.
- legalcorrection 5y ago
  Powershell works fine for me. Not sure what the complaining is about.
  - libraryatnight 5y ago
    As someone who works with AD, Azure, and Windows servers all day (I'm so uncool), Powershell is wonderful.
duxup 5y ago
>It takes a really long time to switch platforms and feel comfortable in them, and without spending a long time adjusting, it's too easy to complain and quite hard to provide a fair review... I agree. Some of the fixes for his complaints are effectively customizations, not unlike the customizations I'd make in Linux. I'm not sure some of these differences are really that different.
prrar 5y ago
I'm halfway through it, awesome review!
- jmmv 5y ago
  Thanks!
runjake 5y ago
Very well-done. This should be the OP article.
- jmmv 5y ago
  Thanks. My original article made its way as a separate submission a while ago but barely got any votes :) My conclusion is that a single (very long) post might have worked out better from an engagement perspective as opposed to the series, but would also have been much harder to make coherent. Thanks for reading!
yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago
I am told, every time someone claims *nix isn't a good desktop, that having to fix things is unacceptable; if a problem can be fixed by editing a config file/setting or installing an additional program, that proves the platform will never be good enough for desktop use. I am perfectly happy to watch NT failing by the same standard.
- pbhjpbhj 5y ago
  It was interesting to me to see Linus, of YouTube's LTT, mess up unzipping and then last into the distro he was using because - even though there was on screen feedback (obscured by his massive screen) - a folder needed updating to see changes. But, for me, across dozens of machines and many years MS Windows' file explorer has failed to do live updates, egg when making a new folder from the right-click menu (even pressing F5) the folder doesn't show, folders occasionally get littered with New Folder subfolders. Same happens with unzipping, the exact thing that apparently made Linux unusable and "not ready for the desktop" ... except for me Ubuntu at least always shows a notification for unzipping (and new folders just work). Mostly these things are familiarity, using Windows just boils my blood though, it feels so hostile to me, Buying and installing Minecraft client on Linux was super easy and straight forward (I did that pre-MS), buying and installing on MS Windows was a total trauma, the account process was so convoluted. Their greed just wrecks all their awesomeness.
cbm-vic-20 5y ago
> Speaking of keyboard shortcuts provides the right segue to the clipboard behavior. I don’t know who had the brilliant idea of making copy and paste preserve the formatting of the source text. This is almost never ever what you want. +1
- humanistbot 5y ago
  Most people who aren't programmers expect formatting to be copied and pasted.
  - uuyi 5y ago
    Having watched my mother swearing at this on numerous occasions I would not make that assumption.
  - dataflow 5y ago
    I think it depends on what you're copying. If you're copying text only, then no. But if you're copying text with images or other non-text elements, then possibly yes.
    - jmmv 5y ago
      I think it also depends on where you are copying from and pasting into. If it's within the same document, you likely want to maintain everything. If it is within the same app (different docs), you may want to maintain everything. If it is across apps... I cannot imagine the use case for maintaining formatting. But as you well said, respecting images, tables and the like is one thing. The other is keeping fonts. Anyhow... so many options that a single feature doesn't fit all. The problem with Windows is the lack of a uniform solution to paste without formatting (my complaint) as opposed to macOS.
      - dataflow 5y ago
        > But as you well said, respecting images, tables and the like is one thing. The other is keeping fonts. Oh, to clarify: I meant: "if you're copying text along with images, you probably want to keep the text formatting [fonts etc.] too, whereas if you're only copying text, you probably don't want the formatting either." It's not a perfect heuristic by any means, but I think it'd be better than the current situation.
dflock 5y ago
> I can't tell how long the author has spent on Windows About 3 1\2 months so far. I tried to be fair - but my article is not as comprehensive as your series! I've read some of your series and I didn't see anything, but you don't happen to know if you can get primary selection middle click paste on Windows? That's the only thing so far that I've got no kind of solution to at all.
- jmmv 5y ago
  The Microsoft Mouse and Keyboard Center (optional install) supports remapping the middle button to paste text, but I don't know if that works for arbitrary keyboards and mice. (I have a Sculpt keyboard.) Also, I had forgotten about the common use of the middle button for pasting as I have not used Linux desktops for a while. Maybe I should remap this now :)
  - dflock 5y ago
    It's not really making middle-click be paste, it's automatically storing the last text selection somewhere that's the problem.
  - opan 5y ago
    It's normally a separate clipboard, allowing you to wrangle two bits of text at once.
- Beltalowda 5y ago
  This worked for me in Windows XP and 7, but no idea if it still works in Windows 10 since it hasn't been updated since 2005: http://fy.chalmers.se/~appro/nt/TXMouse/ http://fy.chalmers.se/~appro/nt/TXMouse/
cmehdy 5y ago
Mostly the same experience having had 10+ years on Mac before a switch to Windows. Powertoys[0] are great although some are slow (especially the one acting like Mac's Spotlight). UI is different but not a bad experience once you've used it for a couple weeks. I didn't see any mention of file explorers (i.e. Explorer vs Finder) in your articles but it's fascinating how those two concepts are the same thing yet so different in their strengths and weaknesses - and to be honest, my explorer experience improved once I started using QTTabbar[1] to customize everything to my liking. I'm surprised your WSL article is so short, because WSL2 is so incredibly convenient for Linux and keeps on improving steadily. I've been able to set up and practice on virtual kubernetes cluster using KinD[2] (Kubernetes in Docker) thanks to the seamless integration of Docker for Windows into the WSL subsystem. VSCode can tap into Linux VMs with pretty much no delays too. Shutting down the whole thing to free up resources takes one line in Powershell and happens within a few seconds. The terminal app despite having a bit of a clunky UI is highly configurable and just works, etc. There are things that scare me about Windows though, for example the mandatory real-time "defender" file scanning that you have to disable either manually at every boot or disable entirely through registry thus losing the virus scanning functionality. The amount of clunky Cortana stuff that really took a while to remove. The store app that feels flimsy, the games dependency on Xbox apps and subsystems which can lead to annoying bugs, and certain UI delays that make the system sometimes feel not so fast compared to the tricks Macs can pull to make you feel at ease. Consequently I'm not very likely to touch Windows 11 as Microsoft is seemingly trying to enforce more things in configurations and UI. [0] https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/powertoys/ https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/powertoys/ [1] https://github.com/indiff/qttabbar https://github.com/indiff/qttabbar [2] https://kubernetes.io/blog/2020/05/21/wsl-docker-kubernetes-on-the-windows-desktop/ https://kubernetes.io/blog/2020/05/21/wsl-docker-kubernetes-...
- jmmv 5y ago
  Ah, but I did write about WSL a while back in a rather controversial post ;) https://jmmv.dev/2020/11/wsl-lost-potential.html https://jmmv.dev/2020/11/wsl-lost-potential.html Yeah, I'm also concerned about some of the things you mention, as I described in the finale. But about Defender, it cannot be disabled at all? I didn't know that. I have just whitelisted the few directories where I do builds to keep things speedy... Thanks for reading.
Brian_K_White 5y ago
Yeah from reading the article that's the impression I'm left with is someone who is just baffled by new things and generally not very good at computery stuff. /s I learned a lot of Windows tricks from this one article written by someone who supposedly hasn't spent enough "effort getting adjusted".

by jmmv 5y ago

wiz21c 5y ago

Funny, I've read the "finale" part and the PowerShell part. When I read you, my fealing is that PowerShell is not there yet and telemetry and Defender have big issues (telemetry 'cos it allow MSFT to remove feature, spy on me) and Defender ('cos sometimes it just eats my time)... As a dev/data scientist/netflix/websurfer/photo-sorter/privacy-aware dude, well, my Linux box just rocks and Windows is not fun (although it does the job).

aerique 5y ago
Perhaps PowerShell will be ready in the same year as Linux for the Desktop?
- majkinetor 5y ago
- _carbyau_ 5y ago
  Powershell runs on linux too so it can be the Year for both of them!
guessbest 5y ago
This is basically required software for windows10 : O&O ShutUp10++ https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10 https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10 I will say in windows defense that the linux kernel seems to need updates almost every week requiring a reboot.
- sph 5y ago
  The linux kernel updates every day, yes, but unless there's a security issue, you don't _have to_ reboot into every new kernel your distribution pushes. Certainly no one forces you to.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - marssaxman 5y ago
    Why does it nag me so often, then?
    - Shared404 5y ago
      Because Ubuntu is trying as hard as it can to turn into Windows-but-with-the-Linux-kernel.
      - GekkePrutser 5y ago
        Indeed, it sometimes feels like they are getting right in lane for a Microsoft acquisition. I'm kinda surprised it hasn't happened with all the mutual love (eg Ubuntu being the poster child for WSL)
      - Gollapalli 5y ago
        This drives me nuts and I wish I could turn it off. To be fair, it doesn't bug me when I use stumpwm instead of the default WM, but the default WM is otherwise quite nice for most things.
legalcorrection 5y ago
Powershell works fine for me. Not sure what the complaining is about.
- libraryatnight 5y ago
  As someone who works with AD, Azure, and Windows servers all day (I'm so uncool), Powershell is wonderful.

duxup 5y ago

>It takes a really long time to switch platforms and feel comfortable in them, and without spending a long time adjusting, it's too easy to complain and quite hard to provide a fair review... I agree. Some of the fixes for his complaints are effectively customizations, not unlike the customizations I'd make in Linux. I'm not sure some of these differences are really that different.

prrar 5y ago

I'm halfway through it, awesome review!

jmmv 5y ago
Thanks!

runjake 5y ago

Very well-done. This should be the OP article.

jmmv 5y ago
Thanks. My original article made its way as a separate submission a while ago but barely got any votes :) My conclusion is that a single (very long) post might have worked out better from an engagement perspective as opposed to the series, but would also have been much harder to make coherent. Thanks for reading!

yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago

I am told, every time someone claims *nix isn't a good desktop, that having to fix things is unacceptable; if a problem can be fixed by editing a config file/setting or installing an additional program, that proves the platform will never be good enough for desktop use. I am perfectly happy to watch NT failing by the same standard.

pbhjpbhj 5y ago
It was interesting to me to see Linus, of YouTube's LTT, mess up unzipping and then last into the distro he was using because - even though there was on screen feedback (obscured by his massive screen) - a folder needed updating to see changes. But, for me, across dozens of machines and many years MS Windows' file explorer has failed to do live updates, egg when making a new folder from the right-click menu (even pressing F5) the folder doesn't show, folders occasionally get littered with New Folder subfolders. Same happens with unzipping, the exact thing that apparently made Linux unusable and "not ready for the desktop" ... except for me Ubuntu at least always shows a notification for unzipping (and new folders just work). Mostly these things are familiarity, using Windows just boils my blood though, it feels so hostile to me, Buying and installing Minecraft client on Linux was super easy and straight forward (I did that pre-MS), buying and installing on MS Windows was a total trauma, the account process was so convoluted. Their greed just wrecks all their awesomeness.

cbm-vic-20 5y ago

> Speaking of keyboard shortcuts provides the right segue to the clipboard behavior. I don’t know who had the brilliant idea of making copy and paste preserve the formatting of the source text. This is almost never ever what you want. +1

humanistbot 5y ago
Most people who aren't programmers expect formatting to be copied and pasted.
- uuyi 5y ago
  Having watched my mother swearing at this on numerous occasions I would not make that assumption.
- dataflow 5y ago
  I think it depends on what you're copying. If you're copying text only, then no. But if you're copying text with images or other non-text elements, then possibly yes.
  - jmmv 5y ago
    I think it also depends on where you are copying from and pasting into. If it's within the same document, you likely want to maintain everything. If it is within the same app (different docs), you may want to maintain everything. If it is across apps... I cannot imagine the use case for maintaining formatting. But as you well said, respecting images, tables and the like is one thing. The other is keeping fonts. Anyhow... so many options that a single feature doesn't fit all. The problem with Windows is the lack of a uniform solution to paste without formatting (my complaint) as opposed to macOS.
    - dataflow 5y ago
      > But as you well said, respecting images, tables and the like is one thing. The other is keeping fonts. Oh, to clarify: I meant: "if you're copying text along with images, you probably want to keep the text formatting [fonts etc.] too, whereas if you're only copying text, you probably don't want the formatting either." It's not a perfect heuristic by any means, but I think it'd be better than the current situation.

dflock 5y ago

> I can't tell how long the author has spent on Windows About 3 1\2 months so far. I tried to be fair - but my article is not as comprehensive as your series! I've read some of your series and I didn't see anything, but you don't happen to know if you can get primary selection middle click paste on Windows? That's the only thing so far that I've got no kind of solution to at all.

jmmv 5y ago
The Microsoft Mouse and Keyboard Center (optional install) supports remapping the middle button to paste text, but I don't know if that works for arbitrary keyboards and mice. (I have a Sculpt keyboard.) Also, I had forgotten about the common use of the middle button for pasting as I have not used Linux desktops for a while. Maybe I should remap this now :)
- dflock 5y ago
  It's not really making middle-click be paste, it's automatically storing the last text selection somewhere that's the problem.
- opan 5y ago
  It's normally a separate clipboard, allowing you to wrangle two bits of text at once.
Beltalowda 5y ago
This worked for me in Windows XP and 7, but no idea if it still works in Windows 10 since it hasn't been updated since 2005: http://fy.chalmers.se/~appro/nt/TXMouse/ http://fy.chalmers.se/~appro/nt/TXMouse/

cmehdy 5y ago

Mostly the same experience having had 10+ years on Mac before a switch to Windows. Powertoys[0] are great although some are slow (especially the one acting like Mac's Spotlight). UI is different but not a bad experience once you've used it for a couple weeks. I didn't see any mention of file explorers (i.e. Explorer vs Finder) in your articles but it's fascinating how those two concepts are the same thing yet so different in their strengths and weaknesses - and to be honest, my explorer experience improved once I started using QTTabbar[1] to customize everything to my liking. I'm surprised your WSL article is so short, because WSL2 is so incredibly convenient for Linux and keeps on improving steadily. I've been able to set up and practice on virtual kubernetes cluster using KinD[2] (Kubernetes in Docker) thanks to the seamless integration of Docker for Windows into the WSL subsystem. VSCode can tap into Linux VMs with pretty much no delays too. Shutting down the whole thing to free up resources takes one line in Powershell and happens within a few seconds. The terminal app despite having a bit of a clunky UI is highly configurable and just works, etc. There are things that scare me about Windows though, for example the mandatory real-time "defender" file scanning that you have to disable either manually at every boot or disable entirely through registry thus losing the virus scanning functionality. The amount of clunky Cortana stuff that really took a while to remove. The store app that feels flimsy, the games dependency on Xbox apps and subsystems which can lead to annoying bugs, and certain UI delays that make the system sometimes feel not so fast compared to the tricks Macs can pull to make you feel at ease. Consequently I'm not very likely to touch Windows 11 as Microsoft is seemingly trying to enforce more things in configurations and UI. [0] https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/powertoys/ https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/powertoys/ [1] https://github.com/indiff/qttabbar https://github.com/indiff/qttabbar [2] https://kubernetes.io/blog/2020/05/21/wsl-docker-kubernetes-on-the-windows-desktop/ https://kubernetes.io/blog/2020/05/21/wsl-docker-kubernetes-...

jmmv 5y ago
Ah, but I did write about WSL a while back in a rather controversial post ;) https://jmmv.dev/2020/11/wsl-lost-potential.html https://jmmv.dev/2020/11/wsl-lost-potential.html Yeah, I'm also concerned about some of the things you mention, as I described in the finale. But about Defender, it cannot be disabled at all? I didn't know that. I have just whitelisted the few directories where I do builds to keep things speedy... Thanks for reading.

Brian_K_White 5y ago

Yeah from reading the article that's the impression I'm left with is someone who is just baffled by new things and generally not very good at computery stuff. /s I learned a lot of Windows tricks from this one article written by someone who supposedly hasn't spent enough "effort getting adjusted".