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This is always a tough subject for me because everyone seems to have at least an idea of what they want to achieve. When I was younger I had these silly dreams

This is always a tough subject for me because everyone seems to have at least an idea of what they want to achieve. When I was younger I had these silly dreams of moving to another country, getting married, becoming a programmer to make games, have my own company and get rich (haha). I did become a programmer and got married, but never left the country or became rich. Now on my 30s I know how limited my options are. I could focus on my craft. But I don't have the same drive as before. I could try to progress my career, but I'm already earning good money and I know to earn more I'd have to either start job hopping or study some leetcode to get into a FAANG. I could try to focus on my hobbies, but you realize very quickly that to get good at anything, you need hundreds/thousands of hours. I could try to start a company, but I know that's extremely hard to do and also requires a shit-ton of luck to work out. After all that, I realize that I have no real objectives to strive for. Some of the dreams I realized and they weren't that satisfying. Some I discovered were not worth pursuing. And now what? In the end, I'm just a blip in the universe and when I'm gone it will be unchanged, the same as if I had never existed. Yet we focus on these artificial goals set by childish dreams, society or life events. What's the point of it?

jchanimal 5y ago
If you aren't feeling motivated to add structure to plans, this helped me https://waitbutwhy.com/2014/05/life-weeks.html https://waitbutwhy.com/2014/05/life-weeks.html
alexonaci 5y ago
Agree, and this is definetly not a popular opinion nowadays. But you could try having kids. You’ll find the meaning like a fire under the arse
- zivkovicp 5y ago
  This. Sometimes it's tough, but it's always rewarding.
  - chasd00 5y ago
    my two boys are the hardest, most rewarding, and impactful code i ever wrote.
- wing-_-nuts 5y ago
  An existential crisis of meaning is a terrible reason to have kids. Have kids because you wish to raise another human from infant to fully formed adult, and are willing to make the huge sacrifices that requires. Don't have them to try and plug some sort of hole in your life.
- croon 5y ago
  I can't disagree more with this. Absolutely do not bring a living person into this world in a coin flip over whether or not it might mean something to your own fulfilment. I am a parent, and absolutely love it and find it extremely rewarding, but it's a ton of work and sacrifice. If both me and my wife were not going into it deliberately with the expectation of what it would entail, it would probably end up bad for everyone involved, especially the involuntary participants (our kids). No one can tell you what it's like to be a parent, but do not become one without being prepared to put them first for a couple of decades. If you are, then kids are amazing, and have brought us more joy than anything previously. Just be prepared for the cost (not just literally). I have seen plenty of regretful parents, even if never explicitly expressed.
  - stocknoob 5y ago
    Thank you for writing this. There’s an insidious motivation that you have kids for what they can give you (“solve my meaning problem!”) vs what you can offer them. If you gamble on kids giving you meaning and they don’t, now what?
    - deckard1 5y ago
      If you go out searching for meaning, you're not going to find it. "Is this meaning?" you might ask, for every choice or circumstance you face. The answer will always be "no". Because you can analyze anything to death. Poke holes in any situation and find some reason it's not full of "meaning". Finish a big project at work before the deadline? "Is this meaning?" Obviously no. The big project won't impact the mega-conglomerate's bottom line. And if it did, what's it mean to increase the revenue of your employer by 0.001% YoY? For you, personally, that is. Etc. Just got married? "Is this meaning?" Again, no. Anyone can get married. Most people do get married. It's incredibly common. You're not special for getting married, yet people spend lavishly on weddings to force some amount of "meaning" on the occasion. The day before your wedding isn't different than the day after. I've been to a dozen weddings and can really only recall the details of maybe two of those. I've not seen a more miserable group of people than /r/fatFIRE on reddit. They have insane wealth, go to retire, and find their life hollow. The mistake is thinking there is some reward is at the end of the journey. I have $30 million dollars, I've retired, now what? You either fill that hole with giant amounts of crap (new Lambo, fancy house, huge TV) or "experiences" (which really translates into traveling to places where poor people are your temporary servants because of the gross power imbalance wealth has granted you). Or, more work. The real secret to retirement is... maybe don't? Hayao Miyazaki is still working, and certainly doesn't need to. He also doesn't believe that personal happiness should be a goal (it's a very Western point-of-view), and considers filmmaking to be suffering[1]. And I suppose that's the real reward for having kids. The meaning is the work and the pain. You'll change a child's diaper thousands of times. But you'll also get to see them smile and laugh. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ag7zxdENmas https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ag7zxdENmas
- stocknoob 5y ago
  If you find something meaningless, you should bring others into it? https://68.media.tumblr.com/1720120c34db164d142a9537087b1aa1/tumblr_p202y3LBVw1vbwf2ko1_1280.png https://68.media.tumblr.com/1720120c34db164d142a9537087b1aa1...
JKCalhoun 5y ago
No kids, huh?
- xwdv 5y ago
  Having kids is the last straw that breaks your dreams. By that point you’ve committed to the parent lifestyle and your life as it has been is over. You now spend the rest of your days providing for your family and viewing everything through the lens of a parent.
  - randomsearch 5y ago
    Maybe that's true. It's certainly true that many parents spend 8 hours a day _not_ looking after their kids, but working on something. We have an enormous power of choice in what we work on, so choose something meaningful and your life will "not be over".
  - biren34 5y ago
    This doesn't have to be true, though it is for many. If you can find a version of your dreams that pays the rent and puts food on the table, you can still chase them. Your financial metabolism does go up though, and the total universe of options shrinks. Ramen profitable doesn't mean actual ramen when you've got a spouse and kids. I found that I've gotten much further in pursuing my dreams after having kids than before. Maybe it's just coincidence, but I feel a lot of the skills I had to learn to be the kind of parent I wanted to be translated almost 1 for 1 to improving my business outcomes.
    - jkhdigital 5y ago
      > I feel a lot of the skills I had to learn to be the kind of parent I wanted to be translated almost 1 for 1 to improving my business outcomes. This 1000%. I would say the same applies to learning how to be the spouse I wanted to be.
  - cloverich 5y ago
    It does limit your options, but also helps you focus and teaches you to be patient and less self centered. It opens your eyes to a world that’s hard to otherwise appreciate. It’s not a panacea of meaning but for me, i’ve found myself able to achieve more growth now (two kids) because it’s forced me to confront and attack the thing that was holding me back: lack of focus and most importantly being very selective in what i choose to do.
jeffreygoesto 5y ago
Try to love yourself and enjoy some moments while they are there. Your expectations come to quite some part from the society trying to make you function. Don't let them get you down too much. Go outside on a sunny day, stop, look, close your eyes and like something you saw, or just the air you breathe. There are more people that have cheerful moments because you are there than you think right now.
leetrout 5y ago
I am not being trite: Thats the point! There is no single point except to exist and from that to try to exist peacefully with your fellow people. You are right, we are here briefly. No different than a flower blooming for a time. Whats the point to blooming just to die? Thats the point. As alan watts said... the journey itself is the point.
- askonomm 5y ago
  What you wrote reminded me of this extremely powerful (to me at least) bit by Jim Carrey on the latest The Weeknd album (which is about being in a state purgatory): Heaven's for those who let go of regret And you have to wait here when you're not all there yet And if your broken heart's heavy when you step on the scale You'll be lighter than air when they pull back the veil Consider the flowers, they don't try to look right They just open their petals and turn to the light
  - leetrout 5y ago
    Thats great. Thanks for sharing.
- chasd00 5y ago
  "exist peacefully with your fellow people" is great but first try to exist peacefully with yourself.
  - leetrout 5y ago
    Truth. Have to love yourself. This takes some work.
    - huzaif 5y ago
      What works for me is "accepting myself". Accepting myself meant accepting the universe. Even the parts I hated. The suffering. I didn't have to love it all, I just had to accept the balance. This has helped me be at peace. Once I am at peace, I can be creative.
randomsearch 5y ago
> What's the point of it? Live for others. You (and I) are incredibly fortunate. We have our basic needs taken care of. We have more than that. There are many, many, people in the world who have problems that you can help solve. That could be - spending time with a lonely elderly person, volunteering with the homeless, building a website for a charity that can't afford to pay for a great one, building a startup that solves a problem for people... teach someone a skill. It can be anything. Live to help other people. They need you. If you don't get much out of it - don't worry, they will. So if you're not particularly bothered about what you do, go help them. The world is full of important problems and people that need help, there's a vast number of things to work on that will make a difference to other people.
- Draiken 5y ago
  It's noble, but for me it's once again... pointless. I don't have the money or power to enact any meaningful change. I can give my time or some money to others, but I'm not really fixing anything. I'm just drying ice. Maybe I'm not selfless enough? I've never tried anything like that, so that's at least something new. Might give it a try
  - altdataseller 5y ago
    You might not have the power to change society or the world, as a whole. But you definitely can impact individuals. If you volunteer as a tutor for kids with learning disabilities for instance, I’m pretty sure you’ll make an impact on that individual.
  - fallat 5y ago
    You're focusing too much on the macro and "the universe". You live one life; enjoy it and help others to be able to enjoy theirs too. Yeah, everything is pointless if you view your life through a cosmic lens. Is it pointless for the ant or bee to exist and work for its colony?
  - bognition 5y ago
    Is it possible you’re setting your threshold for meaningful change to high? I have friends that have made it their life’s work to get their city to install more bike lanes. They’ve been pushing for a decade and the city has installed a few lanes in particularly dangerous places. They have likely saved a bikers life. I have friends that volunteer at a crisis center and all they do is talk with people who need help. They aren’t making big changes but are positively impacting the lives of people around them. There are so many meaningful ways to improve the world around you that don’t require you to have millions of dollars or to go into politics.
jokethrowaway 5y ago
There is no meaning in life except what you make of it. You can argue those goals are just external influences that got imprinted in you in a period of your life in which you were prone to start dreaming. Still, why not follow the goals you feel you should pursue? Do what makes you happy, do what you can look back and say "that was cool", write a book you would read with your life actions.
- Draiken 5y ago
  > Still, why not follow the goals you feel you should pursue? I think that's the problem I tried to describe: I don't have any. It seems everyone has goals that they put aside for one reason or another. I achieved the majority of the goals I had, dropped some that made no sense and now there's no path set out anymore. I don't feel I should pursue anything.
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    > I don't feel I should pursue anything. Then don’t. I also think it is all meaningless, a blip of order in a system of chaos that “we” exist and “we” are able to think about it. Play the game, do not play the game, it does not make a difference unless you want to think it makes a difference. I have little kids, and I am not in any pain, so I like playing the game and seeing what I can do to provide for their future security. Maybe I would not if I was in much worse circumstances, such as super sick or economically disadvantaged.
chiefalchemist 5y ago
> I could try to focus on my hobbies, but you realize very quickly that to get good at anything, you need hundreds/thousands of hours. Be careful. You might regret this, or at least wished you'd done otherwise. Some years ago I bought a guitar. Worked at it initially - got distracted - and then put it aside. I now realize had I continued to pick it up everyday (or so) for say 20 to 30 mins I'd be able to play well enough by now. Perhaps not Hendrix or Page but enough to enjoy myself :) What's the point? The joy you brinb into the world. For yourself, and for others. Pretty much anything else is overrated.
- Draiken 5y ago
  Funnily enough I got the exact same situation happen. My wife got me a guitar as either a nice decoration piece or something I could actually use if I wanted to. I never had the opportunity to learn that when I was a kid, so I tried to learn it. Quickly I realized I'd need to practice at least an hour a day for years before I could play one single song from my favorite band. It just made me quit after a few months. Worst part is that I knew that when I started. I told myself "I'll practice just a bit and when I'm 50 I'll be good at it". The problem is that I realized I did not enjoy practicing it every day. Drills, exercises over and over. It seems to me I enjoy the idea of being a person that can play the guitar well, but I don't really enjoy the journey to that.
  - mendigou 5y ago
    I'd recommend getting a teacher or someone who can plan your drills that forces you to play songs at your level. I'm no prodigy and could play stuff in a few months (heavy metal), maybe a year. But that's only because I played actual songs along with the drills.
  - manmal 5y ago
    Sounds like you need to set intermediate goals. When I started playing the guitar, I asked my teacher „Do you think I‘ll be able to play anything from Muse soon?“ He was like „Uhhm maybe, if you practice super hard? But let’s focus on getting this Smoke on the water to sound absolutely sick!“ For a long time, my only goal was to make the finger exercises sound good. Play them with a metronome and push the number higher and higher. Integrate little licks into the practice routine, keeping pace with the metronome. My guitar teacher was _extremely_ motivated and this was contagious. Before I knew it, I could easily play most pop songs and many rock songs. I didn’t even notice when I became able to play Muse because my interests had shifted by then. I joined a band and stayed with them for 5 years… (Addendum) … until I quit because having two little kids doesn’t mix well with a highly motivated band on the side. I guess I also had kind of a music playing burnout because the band was kinda toxic. Haven’t touched the guitar for two years now, but I‘ll probably pick it up soon again, and learn new songs. Maybe record a reinterpretation of some electronic music I dig. Or make electronic music with guitar elements, like the late Daft Punk or something.
GuardianCaveman 5y ago
What the point? Exceed your potential. Set goals like becoming rich, climb a mountain, start your company, fail many times if it takes it. Take 6 months off for around the world travel. You said you dont have the drive as before. That’s your choice. Drive is something we can choose and cultivate. If you’re happy the way you are then that’s one thing but I for one am not going to lean on my insignificance when compared to the universe to justify why I don’t do things. If you want it, go for it!
- AnonCoward4 5y ago
  > Drive is something we can choose and cultivate. That sounds like hybris. I am not disagreeing that you can alter it to a degree, but it is certainly not something you choose. Just think about how you feel when you are ill and now think of people with allergies for example, that can always feel ill depending on circumstances. These limits exist always and they are different from person to person and these limits are not always set by (obvious) illnesses, but by the body in general. edit: limit => limits
  - wwn_se 5y ago
    Of course you can be more driven (there is of course a limit but most are far from it). I have done it I used to be content with where I was in life. Made decent money, family, friends and hobbies. But I decided that I wanted more so I let my hobbies grow a bit and changed employer. Sure I'm not a million miles from where i was but I'm not in the same place. Once I took the first steps the next got easier and I started to look for more opportunities. Find your first step, it should be small but in the right direction. Ask to take lead on something at work or push yourself in your hobby. What I think everyone with kids should have as one of their goals is to get them one step up the ladder. Give them a slightly better chance than you had. Most successful people have successful parents, very few start from zero. My parents were middle class but I'm upper middle class.
- Draiken 5y ago
  Genuine question: how do you find these goals in the first place? Do you just randomly put them out there and work for it so you can tick that checkbox? Take for example starting a company. I had that goal before and today I know that'd take an enormous amount of effort and would take me away from my family and the few hobbies I have. All that doesn't guarantee I can make it, since the majority of companies fail and luck plays a huge factor there. I could set that as a goal, but is it worth it? Most people I talk to when we dive into why they set a particular goal for themselves, it comes down to a childhood dream or something set by society. That's why I don't see the point.
dorkwood 5y ago
> Yet we focus on these artificial goals set by childish dreams, society or life events. I think this is your problem: you see artificial goals as a bad thing.
palijer 5y ago
I used to feel a bunch of that same pointlessness, and I still do sometimes, but a novel helped me frame what I was feeling. Stoner (1965), by John Williams. It is not about drug use. It essentially covers the life of an assistant lit professor born in 1891 that ended up not living up to his expectations in all areas of life and how he handles them internally. It really helped me draw meaning from my life again while I see friends have their money making them money and fly upwards in their careers and build their families. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoner_(novel) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoner_(novel)
- Loughla 5y ago
  I would add The Razor's Edge by W. Somerset Maugham to this list as well. The problem with 'living up to your expectations' is that too often it's about material goods that are unbelievably fleeting and temporary. This book, followed through to the end, really helps focus in on that. It was given to me by my dissertation chair during post-grad work. He was attempting to point me to the fact that life doesn't have to be hustle and bustle and break-neck for money. I took it to mean that he thought I should quit school and go back to the farm. There's a lesson in there about clear communication, I think. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Razor%27s_Edge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Razor%27s_Edge
- openknot 5y ago
  Stoner is one of the best novels I've ever read. He dedicates almost his entire life toward studying literature because he had a passion for it in university, despite never achieving resounding success (not a spoiler, as this is revealed on the first page of the novel). There are wonderful passages like: “In his extreme youth Stoner had thought of love as an absolute state of being to which, if one were lucky, one might find access; in his maturity he had decided it was the heaven of a false religion, toward which one ought to gaze with an amused disbelief, a gently familiar contempt, and an embarrassed nostalgia. Now in his middle age he began to know that it was neither a state of grace nor an illusion; he saw it as a human act of becoming, a condition that was invented and modified moment by moment and day by day, by the will and the intelligence and the heart.”" It changed my view on love and relationships.
matthewdgreen 5y ago
This happens to everyone in their 30s. You realize that "dying someday" -- which seemed like a big distant hypothetical when you were a kid -- is actually a thing that will happen on a timescale you can reason about. Your career gets hard and you don't really know the point of it. It takes a while to get over it. Then you hit your 40s and you realize that since you're going to die anyway, why waste the time and die bored and mediocre? So you start appreciating things and choosing to do stuff that interests you, whatever that is. YMMV obviously and N=1. But unless you have a terminal disease "I've hit 30 and my life is basically over" is just BS you're telling yourself.
- Draiken 5y ago
  So is this the famous mid-life crisis everyone talks about? I never assumed this was it because I don't explicitly think about mortality all that much. I don't particularly mind that I'm going to die. I also haven't bought a Harley or have the will to do anything of the sorts. Guess I just have to figure out how to come out of it. It's been a slog and right now I don't see the light at the end of the tunnel, hehe.
  - wmeredith 5y ago
    > So is this the famous mid-life crisis everyone talks about? It sure sounds like it. Regarding "buying a Harley" I think that can act as a shorthand for "realizing life is short and doing something for yourself now that you have the means and while you can enjoy it", which is a good idea in my opinion.
    - fennecfoxen 5y ago
      Oh, life is far too short for a Harley. Buy a Ducati or something. ;) No seriously though the other reason 35-year-olds buy a motorcycle or convertible or similar pleasure vehicle is that they actually can afford it, unlike new grads just out of school? (I differentiate the pleasure vehicle from the utility vehicle; if you buy a little 125cc motorcycle as a car-alternative for zooming around town that's quite different than the speed machines, or the massive touring motorcycles that get SUV-grade gas mileage.) Anyway, this is one of the positive parts of middle age — maybe you're not actually rich, but you're usually much better off then you were in your twenties, might have a good start on a home or a retirement, and can afford a few personal luxuries, or children.
slothtrop 5y ago
This reminds me of a recent book by a blogger-psychiatrist who suggests "you don't really have desires", that is, he argues that we live in a pornographic society because we trade agency for knowledge, that we can only act on desire by pretending we have no choice. Or something. It's more convoluted than I'd agree with but there's something there. Personally I think desire can be distilled down to basic things, and we just devise abstractions to satisfy them. If it's no longer clear how x or y would bring any satisfaction, then you won't long for it. Or some other desire is in conflict and you need to resolve it. I think we also become more risk-averse when times are generally good/stable, and excuses are a good defense mechanism. Given the implied restlessness of your question, maybe you need to mull further on what it is you think is lacking. You mentioned career: maybe money isn't the deciding factor as to whether you should advance. You mentioned hobbies: sinking hundreds of hours by habitually sticking to them is what makes something a hobby, so do you like them or not? You mentioned starting a company: what is alluring about this? What does it satisfy? Maybe it's easier to answer: do you feel stagnant and bored?
daSn0wie 5y ago
The only point of life is whatever you make it. Life's your own video game and you set the rules of what defines winning or losing it. There are definitely lots of external pressure trying to get you to align to what their game is, but I think you've come to realize that those rules aren't the rules you want to live by. I felt the same way in my 30s. The thing that changed it for me was when my father passed away, my mother was diagnosed with dementia, and the pandemic. I started to realize that life is really short and it made me think a lot about what it all meant. I think you've also come to realize that there really is no point, so you can either be depressed about it and not do anything or you can just do things that bring you enjoyment. Some people find enjoyment in help others and volunteering (I don't) and will say that's the meaning of life. Other's will say finding enjoyment in the process of something is the meaning of life (I don't). I think it's different for everyone and part of life is defining the game. Everyone wants validation that their rules of life are the right rules. I'm in my late 40s now and I just focus on whatever I want to do that I enjoy - hanging out with friends, spending time with my family, not stressing too much about work, entertaining myself with my hobbies. On hobbies - I'll pick up hobbies just to try them out now. I have no expectations any longer. If it sticks, it sticks, if it doesn't, I don't care that much. I've come to realize I just really like to try new things, and learning the depth doesn't interest me. If i'm inspired to pick it up again, I do. There's probably some self-help/hustle porn out there that dissuades this, but I enjoy it.
- kirso 5y ago
  Actually this is correct but something that supports this point is the: Cosmic insignificance therapy - https://tim.blog/2021/12/15/the-liberation-of-cosmic-insignificance-therapy/ https://tim.blog/2021/12/15/the-liberation-of-cosmic-insigni... In the end, everything is pointless and it can be either depressing or liberating. So all you described - just do the things that you feel are enjoyable or meaningful - it doesn't have to be a startup, it can be as much as caring for elderly or even running naked in the forrest, whatever it is.
  - paulmd 5y ago
    > Cosmic insignificance therapy Heh, reminds me of the Total Perspective Vortex. https://sites.google.com/site/h2g2theguide/Index/t/114333 https://sites.google.com/site/h2g2theguide/Index/t/114333 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUJuv6qL_HA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUJuv6qL_HA
tuyiown 5y ago
Only one answer is needed : do you enjoy the ride ?
Consultant32452 5y ago
Focus on who's going to show up to your funeral and what they'll be thinking about you. That's what matters anyways, far more than your hobbies or career.
chasd00 5y ago
> I could try to focus on my hobbies, but you realize very quickly that to get good at anything, you need hundreds/thousands of hours the best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago, the second best time is right now. To continue with the QOTDs: today you're the oldest you've ever been and the youngest you'll ever be, get started.
otikik 5y ago
> I could try to focus on my hobbies, but you realize very quickly that to get good at anything, you need hundreds/thousands of hours. The point of hobbies is not "getting good at them". It's enjoying them for their own sake. Otherwise they turn into ... work. > I'm just a blip in the universe and when I'm gone it will be unchanged, the same as if I had never existed. Yes. The Universe doesn't expect or have any special plans for you. But hey, that is not that bad. Consider the opposite. The Whole universe having a plan for you. The whole infinite Cosmos. Just thinking about you and having a plan for you. I don't know about you. But it would give me a panic attack. It's ok that the Universe doesn't have a plan for you. This frees you to assign your life whatever meaning you want - and to change it at any point! You can also feel gratified about fulfilling your self-assigned potential or feel extremely disapointed if you did not. Or, change them again. Some hold that the secret to happiness is having the right expectations about oneself. > And now what? Therapy worked for me.
- slowroll 5y ago
  It sounds like the idea of “the universe has no plan for you” really didn’t help considering you needed therapy
  - kowbell 5y ago
    Are you implying that if someone believes the universe has a plan for them, then they won't need therapy?
    - cschep 5y ago
      I think they were implying that if they are horrified that the universe doesn't have a plan for them that therapy could help relieve them of that pain.
  - roci-ceres 5y ago
    Taking therapy does not mean that the person failed to realize his dreams. Successful and unsuccessful people both might feel the need to therapy at some point in their life.
code_runner 5y ago
A few hobbies are fun even before you’re good. Baking can be a lot of fun… start with super detailed recipes and pay attention to the details. Eventually you learn to improvise and pick up little bits and pieces of how the ingredients work together. Running/exercise is one with so many levels you can only truly compete with yourself to improve (and you’ll feel good). Music is one that is sooo difficult. You suck for a long time, but can make incremental improvements.
- agentwiggles 5y ago
  Weightlifting has been one of the most satisfying pursuits I took up as an "adult". Progress is so quantifiable (the numbers go up). And the side benefits of greater fitness, physique, and general mental wellness are amazing. The work itself isn't easy (it can be incredibly tough!), but it's also not complex. You just go to the gym and put in the work and you will make progress. (I don't mean to say that it's simple exactly, there are plenty of places to make mistakes and get analysis paralysis, but progress can be made with extremely simple programming. Pick something battle tested and do the work and you almost can't go wrong.)
r0rshrk 5y ago
> I could try to progress my career, but I'm already earning good money and I know to earn more I'd have to either start job hopping or study some leetcode to get into a FAANG. I know this was not the point of your comment, but trust me that one can pass FAANG interviews without grinding Leetcode. If you're seriously considering a job search, I would recommend going through jobsearch.dev
- skinnymuch 5y ago
  When people use FAANG in these discussions. Is it literally those five companies and a handful of other high end growth companies (Nvidia, Microsoft, Tesla?)? The number still being single digit. Or is it representing a handful more companies than fhat?
  - reciprocity 5y ago
    FAANG usually refers specifically to those companies. GAFAM is another acronym which exchanges Netflix with Microsoft.
    - interestica 5y ago
      You have to replace with Meta and Alphabet too... MAMAA
  - positr0n 5y ago
    To me it can have a few meanings based on context, which I'm sure everyone has their own interpretation ha. Sometimes it means "giant influential tech companies" in which case you could make a good case that Netflix doesn't belong and some others could be added. In a career focused context like this I interpret it as "any tech company where most devs easily earn $300k+". So the original FANG plus a bunch of others, including smaller companies like Uber or Splunk.
    - skinnymuch 5y ago
      Yeah the last paragraph is what I was thinking when I asked. For sure Netflix doesn’t belong. Meta doesn’t either as of end of 2021 if it’s also about growth alongside influential. Tesla, Nvidia slide in perfectly. Then there’s a sizable tail end of $100B+ companies and many under $75B with growth potential. AMD, PayPal, Shopify, Stripe, for $100B ones. Square, Atlassian, Datadog, Cloudflare, some cybersecurity firms like Crowdstrike, Okta, would fit in too. These are too small right now though.
photochemsyn 5y ago
Time is relative. In the end, our planet is just a blip in the universe and when the sun goes it will be gone, and the universe will be unchanged, the same as if Earth had never existed... As far as the point, well, philosophy is fun. Why is there something when there could be nothing? Why does the universe even exist? What's the point of planets? What's the point of life on planets? What's the point of human evolution? Maybe there are no discrete points, aka a continuum, and it's all pointless. Or maybe there are discrete points, indivisible subatomic particles. Or maybe we're all in a simulation? For some the point is to continue the evolutionary process by breeding and spawning, like the salmon in the rivers do. For others the point is to amass as much wealth and power as possible so that they can be at the top of the human social hierarchy and enjoy alpha monkey status. Some invent supernatural beings and imagine life without end in an afterlife paradise. For others, the point is to push their minds and bodies to their limits by creating art, studying science, exploring the natural world, inventing technologies and so on. Probably the saddest crowd is those for whom the point of life has become little more than buying the useless garbage the advertisers tell them to buy. It's not healthy for the mind and it's not healthy for the body, and it's leading to environmental catastrophe. Many people are miserable because they can't buy all the products they're told they're supposed to buy in order to acquire the patina of success (the antidote is to adopt an indifferent attitude towards advertising and its psychological manipulation strategies).
stocknoob 5y ago
Life is a musical thing, per Alan Watts: https://youtu.be/ERbvKrH-GC4 https://youtu.be/ERbvKrH-GC4
AlwaysRock 5y ago
I felt the same as you for several years in my mid 20s and drank a lot/did a lot of drugs to cope with it. I came out of that haze realizing that the point of it, at least for me, is to spend time doing things I enjoy and spend time with people I love. Making a mark on the world? Not my main focus. Making the lives of the people I care about better? Very important.
rubicon33 5y ago
I’m sure it doesn’t make you feel any better but I’m in the exact, same, boat. I’ve decided to try to just chill out, and enjoy life as much as I can. Stop striving for crazy goals, and accept life for what it is - a lot of working, sleeping, spending time with family, occasionally traveling. I do what I need to do to make that enjoyable, and stop worrying about making it better / more money / more prestige / etc. This is counter to the American ethos but I found that focussing on things mostly outside of my reach / luck sphere, was mostly just making me unhappy and rarely moving the needle in wealth or fulfillment. Focus on what you can, and forget the rest. Finding peace with this is easier said than done.
greyhair 5y ago
I have had a pretty good life all along, but it was blips, and spits and starts. And stumbles all along. I just rode through them. I had the advantage of having no vision, no plans, when I graduated high school. All my friends headed off to college, but I had no money, had no idea what I would even study, even though I scored just shy of 1500 on the SAT. Learning always came easy for me, it still does. So having no plan, after high school, I left my job as a farm hand and became a motorcycle mechanic. Found my two major strengths there, thinking through abstract problems as logically as possible, and a certain base understanding of electrical and electronics. A result of that was I got stuck with all the quirky electrical faults, and most of the transmission work. I enjoyed both. Should I go to school for electical or mechanical engineering? EE won that decision process, and I headed off to school at 25. Not having much money, I settled on two years first, to nail down an Associates degree, then move on from there. Got great grades, got a great job offer, went to work. Took additional courses, but never earned a higher degree. Blundered along through a few failed relationships (an early relationship with someone that was bad for me, left scars, and it took a while to figure out how relationships were supposed to work). Finally met someone I could relate to at age 35. Okay? 35. I still was renting. I couldn't even afford my own apartment until I was 30. So at 35 I met the love of my life. A year later, we bought a house together. Two years later we married. Two years after that, we had our first kid. Age 40 for me. So my 30s, my life had really only just begun. So I have been coding in embedded systems now for 38 years. My kids are all grown and out of the house. I never worked at a FAANG. I am not rich, but the women I met, fell in love with, and married, had similar financial goals, so we have saved enough money to retire by time I turn 68. Very small house, we drive cars into the ground (never less than twelve years, my car is now 16 years old). So we have money to do the things we want. Travel and skiing being two of the top things. We raised three kids. Put them through college with no debt (not Ivy league, but no one needs Ivy League for the first four years, that is some heavy vanity BS right there) Your career is not the end point of your Dreams, enjoyment is. Your hobbies should be something you enjoy that don't break the bank. You should constrain your costs on anything the doesn't deeply matter to you so that you can afford the things that do. I will leave you with one huge final important note. The things you 'do' in life are much more important than the things you have. Do not focus on 'having'. Focus on 'doing'. I am a relatively old man now. I am still working because of two things, both related to me doing everything late in life. I started my career late, and I had kids late. I don't mind that I am going to work until I am 68 or maybe 70 years old. I am doing things, and I am enjoying the things I do.
bgilroy26 5y ago
Have you ever read the book of Ecclesiastes?
bigtex88 5y ago
Enjoy life while you're here. Smoke weed. Have sex. Take a vacation. Listen to music. Go scuba diving. Write a book. None of it matters anyway.
gfxgirl 5y ago
My advice. Focus on spending time with friends and family and helping others. Advice I'm not very good at taking myself. Let me add, "spending time with friends" to me means "find a job where I like the people and want the hangout with them" so that I don't have some 8-10hrs a day of something I want to avoid. Those have been the best times in my life where going to work was fun because it was like hanging out with friends. Friends I would see outside of work as well. That work was also on small teams (< 30 people), on small projects where I had a lot of influence, to the point that the project felt like something I was helping to create and had some pride in how it turned out. In other words, not just a cog in a machine.
webmaven 5y ago
Research suggests that happiness is most strongly correlated with having close personal relationships (aka family and friends, etc.). https://thriveglobal.com/stories/relationships-happiness-well-being-life-lessons/ https://thriveglobal.com/stories/relationships-happiness-wel...
cupofpython 5y ago
life coach here. your feeling is valid and there is no 'answer'. It sounds like you believe you have to actually do something in order to have a point this feeling demands deep personal reflection and / or extended authentic conversation with someone who knows you well -- nothing a text forum will be able to give you so do not be discouraged if you read a hundred posts of advice and none of them do anything for you. If you want to explore more of the philosophy of this kind of feeling then I have a recommendation. There is a popular podcast called "Philosophize This!" by Stephen West that actually went into a multi-episode dive on "The Creation of Meaning" recently. It starts on Episode 157. The podcast is a casual conversation-style lecture format. The first episode is 25 minutes long. >Yet we focus on these artificial goals set by childish dreams, society or life events. In my experience goals are used to resolve unmet needs. Children are very needy and have lots of goals. If you need more money, you set a goal to get it. Is it possible that you have no goals and see no point in anything you do because you have nowhere to go but down? You are safe. You are fed. You did it. Maybe it is time to kick your feet up and enjoy.
- Draiken 5y ago
  > Is it possible that you have no goals and see no point in anything you do because you have nowhere to go but down? You are safe. You are fed. You did it. Maybe it is time to kick your feet up and enjoy. I think that's quite possible. In my view to go up now the cost is very high, either energy-wise or time-wise, with little benefit. As an example I could get more money but not enough to retire in the short term (unless I'm extremely lucky). Looking at expectations put on me from where I came from, I'm light years ahead, so I should be feeling like "I made it", but I don't. > Maybe it is time to kick your feet up and enjoy. Haha, I have to find a way to enjoy it somehow. Unfortunately I have this crippling feeling of not doing enough that seems to drain away enjoyment of the moment. Thanks for the reference, I'll make sure to check it out
  - cupofpython 5y ago
    >expectations put on me from where I came from >I have this crippling feeling of not doing enough These two things are not unusual to find in the same person, and a talk therapist can probably help with the details. Tbh, I had a similar thing. What I resolved in therapy was recognizing that the feeling was a mental shortcut; a mechanism / engine running under the hood indiscriminately. It wasn't wrong, but it was incomplete. In response, I expanded the wiring a bit. I now feel it as "there is always more I could do" which basically wired my choice into the mix. Then I exercise that choice. "There is more I can do, but this is enough". the part for me that is hard to put into words is that "enough" is a soft line. doing enough doesnt mean i need to stop doing. I say that last line there bc there was, for me, a related feeling of "Everything I do must be efficient" bc that gets more done and i can never do enough. This needed to be dismantled / rewired as well Taken together, "never do enough" and "always be efficient" created an impasse where doing more than enough was inefficient. And I could not view my life as being enough without self-implying that it should end. Being busy justified my existence, and if i could not justify being busy then i could not justify myself. Obviously this is not a rational conclusion, but that's why therapy helps. I did not realize this kind of irrationality was emergent from my subconscious heuristics until the right line of conversation bubbled it to the surface. I said the words and realized the issue at the same time. Once I noticed it, I could of course handle the work of correcting it on my own time.
croutonwagon 5y ago
I learned at a relatively young age some of these realizations. And realized the biggest thing is WHO you have in your life. Family, children etc. That we arent ancient egyptions and things like cars and boats dont come with us in the afterlife (figuratively). And that a company will cut you as soon as it benefits them and is expediant, that no one is going to write "he was a good worker" on my gravestone. It does seem many have had that realization in the last 2 years, but I had it in my early 20's when my father passed relatively young. And so over the years i have moved up, realized some goals. Manage a department, lead a team or two, still get to work in weeds etc, but have direct influence on budget, organizational decisions etc (at least to this point). And i make a solid salary and frankly the I could do much of this in a much more efficient fashion, and many of my decisions these days are more based in "am I setting a good example". That said, it can still be hard to maintain that focus. During this "great resignation" i have faced an internal battle with the realization i CAN earn more, but whether that will come as a cost of being sacrificial to the other ancillary benefits.. Frankly it can be hard to rectify and sometimes i feel my spouse takes advantage of it. For example its known (at least internally) that family trumps work in almost every instance. That I will not miss my kids...halloween, gradauation, whatever for some on call BS. But that has come to also mean that I get leaned on when a kid is sick, or theres some scheduling thing. And sure i can make it work. Heck I can probably even get away with it without much political cost, but that's sometimes not the point. I also fight with considering offers or "advice" that i should jump ship and move to xyz. I could double salary etc. But does that mean i double benefits if i pay more for insurance or get less days off or am expected to be plugged in or more responsive? Finally, I still have that internal drive. Lately i constantly find myself still trying to map out the next "steps". Do I move further into management? Its not as rewarding for me but the people I have managed seem to have established a pattern of loyalty and trust despite the environment. And the possibility of again having more "freedom" and the ability to drive organization direction and choices would be really nice. I'm in a spot where i have some say, and even some influence, but would more be better? How do i get there, or recognize an open door or oppurtunity. Frankly i find much of it exhausting, just like i have come to find people and politics pretty exhausting lately.
kirsebaer 5y ago
Being a solid adult member of your community has lots of value. Think "It's a Wonderful Life".
FFRefresh 5y ago
Ultimately, it's up to you to decide the point of it. You are the universe made self-aware, packaged in a meat suit with some primitive impulses that just so happens to be living in the most convenient/low friction environment for those primitive impulses in human history thus far. Our culture biases towards certain life meanings (get rich! be famous! do high class things! be higher status than others! belong to the cool in-group!), and our primitive impulses are very attracted to those meanings. But as we accomplish those things, they don't end up feeling super meaningful or fulfilling. We will all be forgotten, the universe doesn't care about our lives. But we are the universe made self-aware! How awesome is this? Yeah, we need to balance a lot of the human concerns because we're embodied in these meat suits that have certain needs. But there's so much to think about/discover/appreciate about it all while we can!
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ALittleLight 5y ago
In a Lex Fridman podcast with Stephen Wolfram, Fridman observes that in some ways Wolfram and Elon Musk are alike. Wolfram agrees. The similarity is what Wolfram calls "Optimism" - a strong belief that not only can they accomplish great things but that they can do so relatively quickly. This is Elon Musk saying self-driving cars are going to happen by the end of the year, or Wolfram saying he's discovering the unified theory of everything. The idea they touch on in the podcast is that this optimism helps people do great things. If you realized the thing you want is decades away, you might not even try. If you (incorrectly) think you are on the cusp of achieving some monumental goal then you may strive for it and, throughout those decades, you may keep believing you are on the cusp and keep striving until you finally reach your goal. This is connected to the idea of "Depressive realism" - which is the idea that depressed people are often more realistic about the world. Perhaps, to be productive, it helps to have a somewhat delusional belief or confidence in your own abilities.
vikingerik 5y ago
Your story sounds a lot like mine. I earn good enough money at a laid-back employer, and don't have the drive to job-hop or leetcode into a FAANG, or to do some big open-source software project or anything else like that. I focus on hobbies. What works for me is to keep the hobbies to myself - don't let it become competitive relative to others. That's a trap you'll never win, as you'll always be comparing to the best and not to any kind of average or typical performance. Here's a number of concrete examples. I like Rubik's cube puzzles, but what I do with them is get new puzzles of different shapes and figure out ways to solve them. I deliberately don't get involved in speed-cubing or such competitions. I like juggling, but I don't try to do any shows or competitions or anything; what I do is invent and learning new patterns and tricks for myself. I learned to sew, to make costumes for conventions; but what I do is walk around to interact with and entertain people; I don't try to compete in shows or for prizes or anything. I play board games, pinball, sports like bowling and ultimate frisbee; but always on a very casual recreational level and not in any kind of organized league or competition. What's important with these isn't the activity itself, it's the human interaction. You can find a lot of value in hobbies like these in a range of 20 to 200 hours invested rather than 2000. The key is to find self-satisfaction in bettering your own skills; don't try to compare to the self-selected best lifelong obsessives.
borroka 5y ago
The question you should be asking yourself is: do I want to have good/exceptional/fantastic fun? If the answer is "meh", "whatever", "I guess", you will inevitably be miserable. I was reading Vaclav Smil's latest book and he does all these calculations about how much energy we have available to us now compared to 200 years ago. And how much less physical labor we have to do to put food on the table and how many more material goods we have available to us now - in my grandparents' day, about 80 years ago, they had maybe one pair of pants sewn together, one shirt that was washed once every two weeks, shoes had holes in them, of course. Their job was picking tomatoes. Were they living a worse life than the one I had the opportunity to experience? Certainly yes, from a material point of view. From the point of view of internal feelings, the individual variability in life satisfaction within a cohort is greater than the variability in average life satisfaction between cohorts of different generations. They lived their lives, comparing themselves to people living in the same neighborhood, certainly not to people living in generations yet to come. In the immortal words of Lorenzo de Medici: "Whoever wants to be happy, let him be so! Because of tomorrow there is no certainty". And sometimes, let me add, there is no certainty of this afternoon either. Let's say you live in the modern Western world, which is more familiar to me. Modern life has endless opportunities for fun, which includes, for some, finding that meaning of life that is so hard to grasp. You can dump your partner, in case you get tired of them, and people would understand - a hundred years ago, such alleged selfishness would have been tolerated at best. Maybe it is the answer, how many I have seen spending decades of the one and only life they will ever have with significant others they barely tolerate, when not hate. You have access to an unlimited number of learning opportunities. We know that agency is supremely important for life satisfaction. You can learn to draw, write, do martial arts, sing, write a screenplay, cook delicious seafood. Assuming you have some disposable income, you can take a flight to some places that until a few decades ago had no sign of civilization. Can you imagine? You can be hypnotized, take some psychedelics, eat and drink as much as you want. Find something new in you and outside of you. What is the point of it all, you may ask. I can only answer that I haven't become rich or world famous, I don't have world-class skills, but in the fifth decade of my life, I'm having a great time living an exciting life - because I do things that excite me -, which includes some overall minor contribution to society (I don't fool myself thinking I am giving a larger than negligible contribution to society), and which I enjoy sharing with others, but only if they have the right attitude. And for me, that's the point of it all.
Chris2048 5y ago
> moving to another country, getting married, becoming a programmer to make games, have my own company and get rich I still dream of those things, except getting married. TBH 30s isn't that late - things get far more difficult if/when you have kids.
asr21 5y ago
There are some things you can have an impact on. Why not try being a really good person and not an asshole. Nothing matters in the world anyway, you won't get anything by being mean to anyone. You can try to have good memories with your family and friends. Sure, everyone will be gone after a few years and nobody will ever remember you. But you are here now, might as well have fun.

jchanimal 5y ago

If you aren't feeling motivated to add structure to plans, this helped me https://waitbutwhy.com/2014/05/life-weeks.html https://waitbutwhy.com/2014/05/life-weeks.html

alexonaci 5y ago

Agree, and this is definetly not a popular opinion nowadays. But you could try having kids. You’ll find the meaning like a fire under the arse

zivkovicp 5y ago
This. Sometimes it's tough, but it's always rewarding.
- chasd00 5y ago
  my two boys are the hardest, most rewarding, and impactful code i ever wrote.
wing-_-nuts 5y ago
An existential crisis of meaning is a terrible reason to have kids. Have kids because you wish to raise another human from infant to fully formed adult, and are willing to make the huge sacrifices that requires. Don't have them to try and plug some sort of hole in your life.
croon 5y ago
I can't disagree more with this. Absolutely do not bring a living person into this world in a coin flip over whether or not it might mean something to your own fulfilment. I am a parent, and absolutely love it and find it extremely rewarding, but it's a ton of work and sacrifice. If both me and my wife were not going into it deliberately with the expectation of what it would entail, it would probably end up bad for everyone involved, especially the involuntary participants (our kids). No one can tell you what it's like to be a parent, but do not become one without being prepared to put them first for a couple of decades. If you are, then kids are amazing, and have brought us more joy than anything previously. Just be prepared for the cost (not just literally). I have seen plenty of regretful parents, even if never explicitly expressed.
- stocknoob 5y ago
  Thank you for writing this. There’s an insidious motivation that you have kids for what they can give you (“solve my meaning problem!”) vs what you can offer them. If you gamble on kids giving you meaning and they don’t, now what?
  - deckard1 5y ago
    If you go out searching for meaning, you're not going to find it. "Is this meaning?" you might ask, for every choice or circumstance you face. The answer will always be "no". Because you can analyze anything to death. Poke holes in any situation and find some reason it's not full of "meaning". Finish a big project at work before the deadline? "Is this meaning?" Obviously no. The big project won't impact the mega-conglomerate's bottom line. And if it did, what's it mean to increase the revenue of your employer by 0.001% YoY? For you, personally, that is. Etc. Just got married? "Is this meaning?" Again, no. Anyone can get married. Most people do get married. It's incredibly common. You're not special for getting married, yet people spend lavishly on weddings to force some amount of "meaning" on the occasion. The day before your wedding isn't different than the day after. I've been to a dozen weddings and can really only recall the details of maybe two of those. I've not seen a more miserable group of people than /r/fatFIRE on reddit. They have insane wealth, go to retire, and find their life hollow. The mistake is thinking there is some reward is at the end of the journey. I have $30 million dollars, I've retired, now what? You either fill that hole with giant amounts of crap (new Lambo, fancy house, huge TV) or "experiences" (which really translates into traveling to places where poor people are your temporary servants because of the gross power imbalance wealth has granted you). Or, more work. The real secret to retirement is... maybe don't? Hayao Miyazaki is still working, and certainly doesn't need to. He also doesn't believe that personal happiness should be a goal (it's a very Western point-of-view), and considers filmmaking to be suffering[1]. And I suppose that's the real reward for having kids. The meaning is the work and the pain. You'll change a child's diaper thousands of times. But you'll also get to see them smile and laugh. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ag7zxdENmas https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ag7zxdENmas
stocknoob 5y ago
If you find something meaningless, you should bring others into it? https://68.media.tumblr.com/1720120c34db164d142a9537087b1aa1/tumblr_p202y3LBVw1vbwf2ko1_1280.png https://68.media.tumblr.com/1720120c34db164d142a9537087b1aa1...

JKCalhoun 5y ago

No kids, huh?

xwdv 5y ago
Having kids is the last straw that breaks your dreams. By that point you’ve committed to the parent lifestyle and your life as it has been is over. You now spend the rest of your days providing for your family and viewing everything through the lens of a parent.
- randomsearch 5y ago
  Maybe that's true. It's certainly true that many parents spend 8 hours a day _not_ looking after their kids, but working on something. We have an enormous power of choice in what we work on, so choose something meaningful and your life will "not be over".
- biren34 5y ago
  This doesn't have to be true, though it is for many. If you can find a version of your dreams that pays the rent and puts food on the table, you can still chase them. Your financial metabolism does go up though, and the total universe of options shrinks. Ramen profitable doesn't mean actual ramen when you've got a spouse and kids. I found that I've gotten much further in pursuing my dreams after having kids than before. Maybe it's just coincidence, but I feel a lot of the skills I had to learn to be the kind of parent I wanted to be translated almost 1 for 1 to improving my business outcomes.
  - jkhdigital 5y ago
    > I feel a lot of the skills I had to learn to be the kind of parent I wanted to be translated almost 1 for 1 to improving my business outcomes. This 1000%. I would say the same applies to learning how to be the spouse I wanted to be.
- cloverich 5y ago
  It does limit your options, but also helps you focus and teaches you to be patient and less self centered. It opens your eyes to a world that’s hard to otherwise appreciate. It’s not a panacea of meaning but for me, i’ve found myself able to achieve more growth now (two kids) because it’s forced me to confront and attack the thing that was holding me back: lack of focus and most importantly being very selective in what i choose to do.

jeffreygoesto 5y ago

Try to love yourself and enjoy some moments while they are there. Your expectations come to quite some part from the society trying to make you function. Don't let them get you down too much. Go outside on a sunny day, stop, look, close your eyes and like something you saw, or just the air you breathe. There are more people that have cheerful moments because you are there than you think right now.

leetrout 5y ago

I am not being trite: Thats the point! There is no single point except to exist and from that to try to exist peacefully with your fellow people. You are right, we are here briefly. No different than a flower blooming for a time. Whats the point to blooming just to die? Thats the point. As alan watts said... the journey itself is the point.

askonomm 5y ago
What you wrote reminded me of this extremely powerful (to me at least) bit by Jim Carrey on the latest The Weeknd album (which is about being in a state purgatory): Heaven's for those who let go of regret And you have to wait here when you're not all there yet And if your broken heart's heavy when you step on the scale You'll be lighter than air when they pull back the veil Consider the flowers, they don't try to look right They just open their petals and turn to the light
- leetrout 5y ago
  Thats great. Thanks for sharing.
chasd00 5y ago
"exist peacefully with your fellow people" is great but first try to exist peacefully with yourself.
- leetrout 5y ago
  Truth. Have to love yourself. This takes some work.
  - huzaif 5y ago
    What works for me is "accepting myself". Accepting myself meant accepting the universe. Even the parts I hated. The suffering. I didn't have to love it all, I just had to accept the balance. This has helped me be at peace. Once I am at peace, I can be creative.

randomsearch 5y ago

> What's the point of it? Live for others. You (and I) are incredibly fortunate. We have our basic needs taken care of. We have more than that. There are many, many, people in the world who have problems that you can help solve. That could be - spending time with a lonely elderly person, volunteering with the homeless, building a website for a charity that can't afford to pay for a great one, building a startup that solves a problem for people... teach someone a skill. It can be anything. Live to help other people. They need you. If you don't get much out of it - don't worry, they will. So if you're not particularly bothered about what you do, go help them. The world is full of important problems and people that need help, there's a vast number of things to work on that will make a difference to other people.

Draiken 5y ago
It's noble, but for me it's once again... pointless. I don't have the money or power to enact any meaningful change. I can give my time or some money to others, but I'm not really fixing anything. I'm just drying ice. Maybe I'm not selfless enough? I've never tried anything like that, so that's at least something new. Might give it a try
- altdataseller 5y ago
  You might not have the power to change society or the world, as a whole. But you definitely can impact individuals. If you volunteer as a tutor for kids with learning disabilities for instance, I’m pretty sure you’ll make an impact on that individual.
- fallat 5y ago
  You're focusing too much on the macro and "the universe". You live one life; enjoy it and help others to be able to enjoy theirs too. Yeah, everything is pointless if you view your life through a cosmic lens. Is it pointless for the ant or bee to exist and work for its colony?
- bognition 5y ago
  Is it possible you’re setting your threshold for meaningful change to high? I have friends that have made it their life’s work to get their city to install more bike lanes. They’ve been pushing for a decade and the city has installed a few lanes in particularly dangerous places. They have likely saved a bikers life. I have friends that volunteer at a crisis center and all they do is talk with people who need help. They aren’t making big changes but are positively impacting the lives of people around them. There are so many meaningful ways to improve the world around you that don’t require you to have millions of dollars or to go into politics.

jokethrowaway 5y ago

There is no meaning in life except what you make of it. You can argue those goals are just external influences that got imprinted in you in a period of your life in which you were prone to start dreaming. Still, why not follow the goals you feel you should pursue? Do what makes you happy, do what you can look back and say "that was cool", write a book you would read with your life actions.

Draiken 5y ago
> Still, why not follow the goals you feel you should pursue? I think that's the problem I tried to describe: I don't have any. It seems everyone has goals that they put aside for one reason or another. I achieved the majority of the goals I had, dropped some that made no sense and now there's no path set out anymore. I don't feel I should pursue anything.
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  > I don't feel I should pursue anything. Then don’t. I also think it is all meaningless, a blip of order in a system of chaos that “we” exist and “we” are able to think about it. Play the game, do not play the game, it does not make a difference unless you want to think it makes a difference. I have little kids, and I am not in any pain, so I like playing the game and seeing what I can do to provide for their future security. Maybe I would not if I was in much worse circumstances, such as super sick or economically disadvantaged.

chiefalchemist 5y ago

> I could try to focus on my hobbies, but you realize very quickly that to get good at anything, you need hundreds/thousands of hours. Be careful. You might regret this, or at least wished you'd done otherwise. Some years ago I bought a guitar. Worked at it initially - got distracted - and then put it aside. I now realize had I continued to pick it up everyday (or so) for say 20 to 30 mins I'd be able to play well enough by now. Perhaps not Hendrix or Page but enough to enjoy myself :) What's the point? The joy you brinb into the world. For yourself, and for others. Pretty much anything else is overrated.

Draiken 5y ago
Funnily enough I got the exact same situation happen. My wife got me a guitar as either a nice decoration piece or something I could actually use if I wanted to. I never had the opportunity to learn that when I was a kid, so I tried to learn it. Quickly I realized I'd need to practice at least an hour a day for years before I could play one single song from my favorite band. It just made me quit after a few months. Worst part is that I knew that when I started. I told myself "I'll practice just a bit and when I'm 50 I'll be good at it". The problem is that I realized I did not enjoy practicing it every day. Drills, exercises over and over. It seems to me I enjoy the idea of being a person that can play the guitar well, but I don't really enjoy the journey to that.
- mendigou 5y ago
  I'd recommend getting a teacher or someone who can plan your drills that forces you to play songs at your level. I'm no prodigy and could play stuff in a few months (heavy metal), maybe a year. But that's only because I played actual songs along with the drills.
- manmal 5y ago
  Sounds like you need to set intermediate goals. When I started playing the guitar, I asked my teacher „Do you think I‘ll be able to play anything from Muse soon?“ He was like „Uhhm maybe, if you practice super hard? But let’s focus on getting this Smoke on the water to sound absolutely sick!“ For a long time, my only goal was to make the finger exercises sound good. Play them with a metronome and push the number higher and higher. Integrate little licks into the practice routine, keeping pace with the metronome. My guitar teacher was _extremely_ motivated and this was contagious. Before I knew it, I could easily play most pop songs and many rock songs. I didn’t even notice when I became able to play Muse because my interests had shifted by then. I joined a band and stayed with them for 5 years… (Addendum) … until I quit because having two little kids doesn’t mix well with a highly motivated band on the side. I guess I also had kind of a music playing burnout because the band was kinda toxic. Haven’t touched the guitar for two years now, but I‘ll probably pick it up soon again, and learn new songs. Maybe record a reinterpretation of some electronic music I dig. Or make electronic music with guitar elements, like the late Daft Punk or something.

GuardianCaveman 5y ago

What the point? Exceed your potential. Set goals like becoming rich, climb a mountain, start your company, fail many times if it takes it. Take 6 months off for around the world travel. You said you dont have the drive as before. That’s your choice. Drive is something we can choose and cultivate. If you’re happy the way you are then that’s one thing but I for one am not going to lean on my insignificance when compared to the universe to justify why I don’t do things. If you want it, go for it!

AnonCoward4 5y ago
> Drive is something we can choose and cultivate. That sounds like hybris. I am not disagreeing that you can alter it to a degree, but it is certainly not something you choose. Just think about how you feel when you are ill and now think of people with allergies for example, that can always feel ill depending on circumstances. These limits exist always and they are different from person to person and these limits are not always set by (obvious) illnesses, but by the body in general. edit: limit => limits
- wwn_se 5y ago
  Of course you can be more driven (there is of course a limit but most are far from it). I have done it I used to be content with where I was in life. Made decent money, family, friends and hobbies. But I decided that I wanted more so I let my hobbies grow a bit and changed employer. Sure I'm not a million miles from where i was but I'm not in the same place. Once I took the first steps the next got easier and I started to look for more opportunities. Find your first step, it should be small but in the right direction. Ask to take lead on something at work or push yourself in your hobby. What I think everyone with kids should have as one of their goals is to get them one step up the ladder. Give them a slightly better chance than you had. Most successful people have successful parents, very few start from zero. My parents were middle class but I'm upper middle class.
Draiken 5y ago
Genuine question: how do you find these goals in the first place? Do you just randomly put them out there and work for it so you can tick that checkbox? Take for example starting a company. I had that goal before and today I know that'd take an enormous amount of effort and would take me away from my family and the few hobbies I have. All that doesn't guarantee I can make it, since the majority of companies fail and luck plays a huge factor there. I could set that as a goal, but is it worth it? Most people I talk to when we dive into why they set a particular goal for themselves, it comes down to a childhood dream or something set by society. That's why I don't see the point.

dorkwood 5y ago

> Yet we focus on these artificial goals set by childish dreams, society or life events. I think this is your problem: you see artificial goals as a bad thing.

palijer 5y ago

I used to feel a bunch of that same pointlessness, and I still do sometimes, but a novel helped me frame what I was feeling. Stoner (1965), by John Williams. It is not about drug use. It essentially covers the life of an assistant lit professor born in 1891 that ended up not living up to his expectations in all areas of life and how he handles them internally. It really helped me draw meaning from my life again while I see friends have their money making them money and fly upwards in their careers and build their families. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoner_(novel) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoner_(novel)

Loughla 5y ago
I would add The Razor's Edge by W. Somerset Maugham to this list as well. The problem with 'living up to your expectations' is that too often it's about material goods that are unbelievably fleeting and temporary. This book, followed through to the end, really helps focus in on that. It was given to me by my dissertation chair during post-grad work. He was attempting to point me to the fact that life doesn't have to be hustle and bustle and break-neck for money. I took it to mean that he thought I should quit school and go back to the farm. There's a lesson in there about clear communication, I think. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Razor%27s_Edge https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Razor%27s_Edge
openknot 5y ago
Stoner is one of the best novels I've ever read. He dedicates almost his entire life toward studying literature because he had a passion for it in university, despite never achieving resounding success (not a spoiler, as this is revealed on the first page of the novel). There are wonderful passages like: “In his extreme youth Stoner had thought of love as an absolute state of being to which, if one were lucky, one might find access; in his maturity he had decided it was the heaven of a false religion, toward which one ought to gaze with an amused disbelief, a gently familiar contempt, and an embarrassed nostalgia. Now in his middle age he began to know that it was neither a state of grace nor an illusion; he saw it as a human act of becoming, a condition that was invented and modified moment by moment and day by day, by the will and the intelligence and the heart.”" It changed my view on love and relationships.

matthewdgreen 5y ago

This happens to everyone in their 30s. You realize that "dying someday" -- which seemed like a big distant hypothetical when you were a kid -- is actually a thing that will happen on a timescale you can reason about. Your career gets hard and you don't really know the point of it. It takes a while to get over it. Then you hit your 40s and you realize that since you're going to die anyway, why waste the time and die bored and mediocre? So you start appreciating things and choosing to do stuff that interests you, whatever that is. YMMV obviously and N=1. But unless you have a terminal disease "I've hit 30 and my life is basically over" is just BS you're telling yourself.

Draiken 5y ago
So is this the famous mid-life crisis everyone talks about? I never assumed this was it because I don't explicitly think about mortality all that much. I don't particularly mind that I'm going to die. I also haven't bought a Harley or have the will to do anything of the sorts. Guess I just have to figure out how to come out of it. It's been a slog and right now I don't see the light at the end of the tunnel, hehe.
- wmeredith 5y ago
  > So is this the famous mid-life crisis everyone talks about? It sure sounds like it. Regarding "buying a Harley" I think that can act as a shorthand for "realizing life is short and doing something for yourself now that you have the means and while you can enjoy it", which is a good idea in my opinion.
  - fennecfoxen 5y ago
    Oh, life is far too short for a Harley. Buy a Ducati or something. ;) No seriously though the other reason 35-year-olds buy a motorcycle or convertible or similar pleasure vehicle is that they actually can afford it, unlike new grads just out of school? (I differentiate the pleasure vehicle from the utility vehicle; if you buy a little 125cc motorcycle as a car-alternative for zooming around town that's quite different than the speed machines, or the massive touring motorcycles that get SUV-grade gas mileage.) Anyway, this is one of the positive parts of middle age — maybe you're not actually rich, but you're usually much better off then you were in your twenties, might have a good start on a home or a retirement, and can afford a few personal luxuries, or children.

slothtrop 5y ago

This reminds me of a recent book by a blogger-psychiatrist who suggests "you don't really have desires", that is, he argues that we live in a pornographic society because we trade agency for knowledge, that we can only act on desire by pretending we have no choice. Or something. It's more convoluted than I'd agree with but there's something there. Personally I think desire can be distilled down to basic things, and we just devise abstractions to satisfy them. If it's no longer clear how x or y would bring any satisfaction, then you won't long for it. Or some other desire is in conflict and you need to resolve it. I think we also become more risk-averse when times are generally good/stable, and excuses are a good defense mechanism. Given the implied restlessness of your question, maybe you need to mull further on what it is you think is lacking. You mentioned career: maybe money isn't the deciding factor as to whether you should advance. You mentioned hobbies: sinking hundreds of hours by habitually sticking to them is what makes something a hobby, so do you like them or not? You mentioned starting a company: what is alluring about this? What does it satisfy? Maybe it's easier to answer: do you feel stagnant and bored?

daSn0wie 5y ago

The only point of life is whatever you make it. Life's your own video game and you set the rules of what defines winning or losing it. There are definitely lots of external pressure trying to get you to align to what their game is, but I think you've come to realize that those rules aren't the rules you want to live by. I felt the same way in my 30s. The thing that changed it for me was when my father passed away, my mother was diagnosed with dementia, and the pandemic. I started to realize that life is really short and it made me think a lot about what it all meant. I think you've also come to realize that there really is no point, so you can either be depressed about it and not do anything or you can just do things that bring you enjoyment. Some people find enjoyment in help others and volunteering (I don't) and will say that's the meaning of life. Other's will say finding enjoyment in the process of something is the meaning of life (I don't). I think it's different for everyone and part of life is defining the game. Everyone wants validation that their rules of life are the right rules. I'm in my late 40s now and I just focus on whatever I want to do that I enjoy - hanging out with friends, spending time with my family, not stressing too much about work, entertaining myself with my hobbies. On hobbies - I'll pick up hobbies just to try them out now. I have no expectations any longer. If it sticks, it sticks, if it doesn't, I don't care that much. I've come to realize I just really like to try new things, and learning the depth doesn't interest me. If i'm inspired to pick it up again, I do. There's probably some self-help/hustle porn out there that dissuades this, but I enjoy it.

kirso 5y ago
Actually this is correct but something that supports this point is the: Cosmic insignificance therapy - https://tim.blog/2021/12/15/the-liberation-of-cosmic-insignificance-therapy/ https://tim.blog/2021/12/15/the-liberation-of-cosmic-insigni... In the end, everything is pointless and it can be either depressing or liberating. So all you described - just do the things that you feel are enjoyable or meaningful - it doesn't have to be a startup, it can be as much as caring for elderly or even running naked in the forrest, whatever it is.
- paulmd 5y ago
  > Cosmic insignificance therapy Heh, reminds me of the Total Perspective Vortex. https://sites.google.com/site/h2g2theguide/Index/t/114333 https://sites.google.com/site/h2g2theguide/Index/t/114333 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUJuv6qL_HA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUJuv6qL_HA

tuyiown 5y ago

Only one answer is needed : do you enjoy the ride ?

Consultant32452 5y ago

Focus on who's going to show up to your funeral and what they'll be thinking about you. That's what matters anyways, far more than your hobbies or career.

chasd00 5y ago

> I could try to focus on my hobbies, but you realize very quickly that to get good at anything, you need hundreds/thousands of hours the best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago, the second best time is right now. To continue with the QOTDs: today you're the oldest you've ever been and the youngest you'll ever be, get started.

otikik 5y ago

> I could try to focus on my hobbies, but you realize very quickly that to get good at anything, you need hundreds/thousands of hours. The point of hobbies is not "getting good at them". It's enjoying them for their own sake. Otherwise they turn into ... work. > I'm just a blip in the universe and when I'm gone it will be unchanged, the same as if I had never existed. Yes. The Universe doesn't expect or have any special plans for you. But hey, that is not that bad. Consider the opposite. The Whole universe having a plan for you. The whole infinite Cosmos. Just thinking about you and having a plan for you. I don't know about you. But it would give me a panic attack. It's ok that the Universe doesn't have a plan for you. This frees you to assign your life whatever meaning you want - and to change it at any point! You can also feel gratified about fulfilling your self-assigned potential or feel extremely disapointed if you did not. Or, change them again. Some hold that the secret to happiness is having the right expectations about oneself. > And now what? Therapy worked for me.

slowroll 5y ago
It sounds like the idea of “the universe has no plan for you” really didn’t help considering you needed therapy
- kowbell 5y ago
  Are you implying that if someone believes the universe has a plan for them, then they won't need therapy?
  - cschep 5y ago
    I think they were implying that if they are horrified that the universe doesn't have a plan for them that therapy could help relieve them of that pain.
- roci-ceres 5y ago
  Taking therapy does not mean that the person failed to realize his dreams. Successful and unsuccessful people both might feel the need to therapy at some point in their life.

code_runner 5y ago

A few hobbies are fun even before you’re good. Baking can be a lot of fun… start with super detailed recipes and pay attention to the details. Eventually you learn to improvise and pick up little bits and pieces of how the ingredients work together. Running/exercise is one with so many levels you can only truly compete with yourself to improve (and you’ll feel good). Music is one that is sooo difficult. You suck for a long time, but can make incremental improvements.

agentwiggles 5y ago
Weightlifting has been one of the most satisfying pursuits I took up as an "adult". Progress is so quantifiable (the numbers go up). And the side benefits of greater fitness, physique, and general mental wellness are amazing. The work itself isn't easy (it can be incredibly tough!), but it's also not complex. You just go to the gym and put in the work and you will make progress. (I don't mean to say that it's simple exactly, there are plenty of places to make mistakes and get analysis paralysis, but progress can be made with extremely simple programming. Pick something battle tested and do the work and you almost can't go wrong.)

r0rshrk 5y ago

> I could try to progress my career, but I'm already earning good money and I know to earn more I'd have to either start job hopping or study some leetcode to get into a FAANG. I know this was not the point of your comment, but trust me that one can pass FAANG interviews without grinding Leetcode. If you're seriously considering a job search, I would recommend going through jobsearch.dev

skinnymuch 5y ago
When people use FAANG in these discussions. Is it literally those five companies and a handful of other high end growth companies (Nvidia, Microsoft, Tesla?)? The number still being single digit. Or is it representing a handful more companies than fhat?
- reciprocity 5y ago
  FAANG usually refers specifically to those companies. GAFAM is another acronym which exchanges Netflix with Microsoft.
  - interestica 5y ago
    You have to replace with Meta and Alphabet too... MAMAA
- positr0n 5y ago
  To me it can have a few meanings based on context, which I'm sure everyone has their own interpretation ha. Sometimes it means "giant influential tech companies" in which case you could make a good case that Netflix doesn't belong and some others could be added. In a career focused context like this I interpret it as "any tech company where most devs easily earn $300k+". So the original FANG plus a bunch of others, including smaller companies like Uber or Splunk.
  - skinnymuch 5y ago
    Yeah the last paragraph is what I was thinking when I asked. For sure Netflix doesn’t belong. Meta doesn’t either as of end of 2021 if it’s also about growth alongside influential. Tesla, Nvidia slide in perfectly. Then there’s a sizable tail end of $100B+ companies and many under $75B with growth potential. AMD, PayPal, Shopify, Stripe, for $100B ones. Square, Atlassian, Datadog, Cloudflare, some cybersecurity firms like Crowdstrike, Okta, would fit in too. These are too small right now though.

photochemsyn 5y ago

Time is relative. In the end, our planet is just a blip in the universe and when the sun goes it will be gone, and the universe will be unchanged, the same as if Earth had never existed... As far as the point, well, philosophy is fun. Why is there something when there could be nothing? Why does the universe even exist? What's the point of planets? What's the point of life on planets? What's the point of human evolution? Maybe there are no discrete points, aka a continuum, and it's all pointless. Or maybe there are discrete points, indivisible subatomic particles. Or maybe we're all in a simulation? For some the point is to continue the evolutionary process by breeding and spawning, like the salmon in the rivers do. For others the point is to amass as much wealth and power as possible so that they can be at the top of the human social hierarchy and enjoy alpha monkey status. Some invent supernatural beings and imagine life without end in an afterlife paradise. For others, the point is to push their minds and bodies to their limits by creating art, studying science, exploring the natural world, inventing technologies and so on. Probably the saddest crowd is those for whom the point of life has become little more than buying the useless garbage the advertisers tell them to buy. It's not healthy for the mind and it's not healthy for the body, and it's leading to environmental catastrophe. Many people are miserable because they can't buy all the products they're told they're supposed to buy in order to acquire the patina of success (the antidote is to adopt an indifferent attitude towards advertising and its psychological manipulation strategies).

stocknoob 5y ago

Life is a musical thing, per Alan Watts: https://youtu.be/ERbvKrH-GC4 https://youtu.be/ERbvKrH-GC4

AlwaysRock 5y ago

I felt the same as you for several years in my mid 20s and drank a lot/did a lot of drugs to cope with it. I came out of that haze realizing that the point of it, at least for me, is to spend time doing things I enjoy and spend time with people I love. Making a mark on the world? Not my main focus. Making the lives of the people I care about better? Very important.

rubicon33 5y ago

I’m sure it doesn’t make you feel any better but I’m in the exact, same, boat. I’ve decided to try to just chill out, and enjoy life as much as I can. Stop striving for crazy goals, and accept life for what it is - a lot of working, sleeping, spending time with family, occasionally traveling. I do what I need to do to make that enjoyable, and stop worrying about making it better / more money / more prestige / etc. This is counter to the American ethos but I found that focussing on things mostly outside of my reach / luck sphere, was mostly just making me unhappy and rarely moving the needle in wealth or fulfillment. Focus on what you can, and forget the rest. Finding peace with this is easier said than done.

greyhair 5y ago

I have had a pretty good life all along, but it was blips, and spits and starts. And stumbles all along. I just rode through them. I had the advantage of having no vision, no plans, when I graduated high school. All my friends headed off to college, but I had no money, had no idea what I would even study, even though I scored just shy of 1500 on the SAT. Learning always came easy for me, it still does. So having no plan, after high school, I left my job as a farm hand and became a motorcycle mechanic. Found my two major strengths there, thinking through abstract problems as logically as possible, and a certain base understanding of electrical and electronics. A result of that was I got stuck with all the quirky electrical faults, and most of the transmission work. I enjoyed both. Should I go to school for electical or mechanical engineering? EE won that decision process, and I headed off to school at 25. Not having much money, I settled on two years first, to nail down an Associates degree, then move on from there. Got great grades, got a great job offer, went to work. Took additional courses, but never earned a higher degree. Blundered along through a few failed relationships (an early relationship with someone that was bad for me, left scars, and it took a while to figure out how relationships were supposed to work). Finally met someone I could relate to at age 35. Okay? 35. I still was renting. I couldn't even afford my own apartment until I was 30. So at 35 I met the love of my life. A year later, we bought a house together. Two years later we married. Two years after that, we had our first kid. Age 40 for me. So my 30s, my life had really only just begun. So I have been coding in embedded systems now for 38 years. My kids are all grown and out of the house. I never worked at a FAANG. I am not rich, but the women I met, fell in love with, and married, had similar financial goals, so we have saved enough money to retire by time I turn 68. Very small house, we drive cars into the ground (never less than twelve years, my car is now 16 years old). So we have money to do the things we want. Travel and skiing being two of the top things. We raised three kids. Put them through college with no debt (not Ivy league, but no one needs Ivy League for the first four years, that is some heavy vanity BS right there) Your career is not the end point of your Dreams, enjoyment is. Your hobbies should be something you enjoy that don't break the bank. You should constrain your costs on anything the doesn't deeply matter to you so that you can afford the things that do. I will leave you with one huge final important note. The things you 'do' in life are much more important than the things you have. Do not focus on 'having'. Focus on 'doing'. I am a relatively old man now. I am still working because of two things, both related to me doing everything late in life. I started my career late, and I had kids late. I don't mind that I am going to work until I am 68 or maybe 70 years old. I am doing things, and I am enjoying the things I do.

bgilroy26 5y ago

Have you ever read the book of Ecclesiastes?

bigtex88 5y ago

Enjoy life while you're here. Smoke weed. Have sex. Take a vacation. Listen to music. Go scuba diving. Write a book. None of it matters anyway.

gfxgirl 5y ago

My advice. Focus on spending time with friends and family and helping others. Advice I'm not very good at taking myself. Let me add, "spending time with friends" to me means "find a job where I like the people and want the hangout with them" so that I don't have some 8-10hrs a day of something I want to avoid. Those have been the best times in my life where going to work was fun because it was like hanging out with friends. Friends I would see outside of work as well. That work was also on small teams (< 30 people), on small projects where I had a lot of influence, to the point that the project felt like something I was helping to create and had some pride in how it turned out. In other words, not just a cog in a machine.

webmaven 5y ago

Research suggests that happiness is most strongly correlated with having close personal relationships (aka family and friends, etc.). https://thriveglobal.com/stories/relationships-happiness-well-being-life-lessons/ https://thriveglobal.com/stories/relationships-happiness-wel...

cupofpython 5y ago

life coach here. your feeling is valid and there is no 'answer'. It sounds like you believe you have to actually do something in order to have a point this feeling demands deep personal reflection and / or extended authentic conversation with someone who knows you well -- nothing a text forum will be able to give you so do not be discouraged if you read a hundred posts of advice and none of them do anything for you. If you want to explore more of the philosophy of this kind of feeling then I have a recommendation. There is a popular podcast called "Philosophize This!" by Stephen West that actually went into a multi-episode dive on "The Creation of Meaning" recently. It starts on Episode 157. The podcast is a casual conversation-style lecture format. The first episode is 25 minutes long. >Yet we focus on these artificial goals set by childish dreams, society or life events. In my experience goals are used to resolve unmet needs. Children are very needy and have lots of goals. If you need more money, you set a goal to get it. Is it possible that you have no goals and see no point in anything you do because you have nowhere to go but down? You are safe. You are fed. You did it. Maybe it is time to kick your feet up and enjoy.

Draiken 5y ago
> Is it possible that you have no goals and see no point in anything you do because you have nowhere to go but down? You are safe. You are fed. You did it. Maybe it is time to kick your feet up and enjoy. I think that's quite possible. In my view to go up now the cost is very high, either energy-wise or time-wise, with little benefit. As an example I could get more money but not enough to retire in the short term (unless I'm extremely lucky). Looking at expectations put on me from where I came from, I'm light years ahead, so I should be feeling like "I made it", but I don't. > Maybe it is time to kick your feet up and enjoy. Haha, I have to find a way to enjoy it somehow. Unfortunately I have this crippling feeling of not doing enough that seems to drain away enjoyment of the moment. Thanks for the reference, I'll make sure to check it out
- cupofpython 5y ago
  >expectations put on me from where I came from >I have this crippling feeling of not doing enough These two things are not unusual to find in the same person, and a talk therapist can probably help with the details. Tbh, I had a similar thing. What I resolved in therapy was recognizing that the feeling was a mental shortcut; a mechanism / engine running under the hood indiscriminately. It wasn't wrong, but it was incomplete. In response, I expanded the wiring a bit. I now feel it as "there is always more I could do" which basically wired my choice into the mix. Then I exercise that choice. "There is more I can do, but this is enough". the part for me that is hard to put into words is that "enough" is a soft line. doing enough doesnt mean i need to stop doing. I say that last line there bc there was, for me, a related feeling of "Everything I do must be efficient" bc that gets more done and i can never do enough. This needed to be dismantled / rewired as well Taken together, "never do enough" and "always be efficient" created an impasse where doing more than enough was inefficient. And I could not view my life as being enough without self-implying that it should end. Being busy justified my existence, and if i could not justify being busy then i could not justify myself. Obviously this is not a rational conclusion, but that's why therapy helps. I did not realize this kind of irrationality was emergent from my subconscious heuristics until the right line of conversation bubbled it to the surface. I said the words and realized the issue at the same time. Once I noticed it, I could of course handle the work of correcting it on my own time.

croutonwagon 5y ago

I learned at a relatively young age some of these realizations. And realized the biggest thing is WHO you have in your life. Family, children etc. That we arent ancient egyptions and things like cars and boats dont come with us in the afterlife (figuratively). And that a company will cut you as soon as it benefits them and is expediant, that no one is going to write "he was a good worker" on my gravestone. It does seem many have had that realization in the last 2 years, but I had it in my early 20's when my father passed relatively young. And so over the years i have moved up, realized some goals. Manage a department, lead a team or two, still get to work in weeds etc, but have direct influence on budget, organizational decisions etc (at least to this point). And i make a solid salary and frankly the I could do much of this in a much more efficient fashion, and many of my decisions these days are more based in "am I setting a good example". That said, it can still be hard to maintain that focus. During this "great resignation" i have faced an internal battle with the realization i CAN earn more, but whether that will come as a cost of being sacrificial to the other ancillary benefits.. Frankly it can be hard to rectify and sometimes i feel my spouse takes advantage of it. For example its known (at least internally) that family trumps work in almost every instance. That I will not miss my kids...halloween, gradauation, whatever for some on call BS. But that has come to also mean that I get leaned on when a kid is sick, or theres some scheduling thing. And sure i can make it work. Heck I can probably even get away with it without much political cost, but that's sometimes not the point. I also fight with considering offers or "advice" that i should jump ship and move to xyz. I could double salary etc. But does that mean i double benefits if i pay more for insurance or get less days off or am expected to be plugged in or more responsive? Finally, I still have that internal drive. Lately i constantly find myself still trying to map out the next "steps". Do I move further into management? Its not as rewarding for me but the people I have managed seem to have established a pattern of loyalty and trust despite the environment. And the possibility of again having more "freedom" and the ability to drive organization direction and choices would be really nice. I'm in a spot where i have some say, and even some influence, but would more be better? How do i get there, or recognize an open door or oppurtunity. Frankly i find much of it exhausting, just like i have come to find people and politics pretty exhausting lately.

kirsebaer 5y ago

Being a solid adult member of your community has lots of value. Think "It's a Wonderful Life".

FFRefresh 5y ago

Ultimately, it's up to you to decide the point of it. You are the universe made self-aware, packaged in a meat suit with some primitive impulses that just so happens to be living in the most convenient/low friction environment for those primitive impulses in human history thus far. Our culture biases towards certain life meanings (get rich! be famous! do high class things! be higher status than others! belong to the cool in-group!), and our primitive impulses are very attracted to those meanings. But as we accomplish those things, they don't end up feeling super meaningful or fulfilling. We will all be forgotten, the universe doesn't care about our lives. But we are the universe made self-aware! How awesome is this? Yeah, we need to balance a lot of the human concerns because we're embodied in these meat suits that have certain needs. But there's so much to think about/discover/appreciate about it all while we can!

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ALittleLight 5y ago

In a Lex Fridman podcast with Stephen Wolfram, Fridman observes that in some ways Wolfram and Elon Musk are alike. Wolfram agrees. The similarity is what Wolfram calls "Optimism" - a strong belief that not only can they accomplish great things but that they can do so relatively quickly. This is Elon Musk saying self-driving cars are going to happen by the end of the year, or Wolfram saying he's discovering the unified theory of everything. The idea they touch on in the podcast is that this optimism helps people do great things. If you realized the thing you want is decades away, you might not even try. If you (incorrectly) think you are on the cusp of achieving some monumental goal then you may strive for it and, throughout those decades, you may keep believing you are on the cusp and keep striving until you finally reach your goal. This is connected to the idea of "Depressive realism" - which is the idea that depressed people are often more realistic about the world. Perhaps, to be productive, it helps to have a somewhat delusional belief or confidence in your own abilities.

vikingerik 5y ago

Your story sounds a lot like mine. I earn good enough money at a laid-back employer, and don't have the drive to job-hop or leetcode into a FAANG, or to do some big open-source software project or anything else like that. I focus on hobbies. What works for me is to keep the hobbies to myself - don't let it become competitive relative to others. That's a trap you'll never win, as you'll always be comparing to the best and not to any kind of average or typical performance. Here's a number of concrete examples. I like Rubik's cube puzzles, but what I do with them is get new puzzles of different shapes and figure out ways to solve them. I deliberately don't get involved in speed-cubing or such competitions. I like juggling, but I don't try to do any shows or competitions or anything; what I do is invent and learning new patterns and tricks for myself. I learned to sew, to make costumes for conventions; but what I do is walk around to interact with and entertain people; I don't try to compete in shows or for prizes or anything. I play board games, pinball, sports like bowling and ultimate frisbee; but always on a very casual recreational level and not in any kind of organized league or competition. What's important with these isn't the activity itself, it's the human interaction. You can find a lot of value in hobbies like these in a range of 20 to 200 hours invested rather than 2000. The key is to find self-satisfaction in bettering your own skills; don't try to compare to the self-selected best lifelong obsessives.

borroka 5y ago

The question you should be asking yourself is: do I want to have good/exceptional/fantastic fun? If the answer is "meh", "whatever", "I guess", you will inevitably be miserable. I was reading Vaclav Smil's latest book and he does all these calculations about how much energy we have available to us now compared to 200 years ago. And how much less physical labor we have to do to put food on the table and how many more material goods we have available to us now - in my grandparents' day, about 80 years ago, they had maybe one pair of pants sewn together, one shirt that was washed once every two weeks, shoes had holes in them, of course. Their job was picking tomatoes. Were they living a worse life than the one I had the opportunity to experience? Certainly yes, from a material point of view. From the point of view of internal feelings, the individual variability in life satisfaction within a cohort is greater than the variability in average life satisfaction between cohorts of different generations. They lived their lives, comparing themselves to people living in the same neighborhood, certainly not to people living in generations yet to come. In the immortal words of Lorenzo de Medici: "Whoever wants to be happy, let him be so! Because of tomorrow there is no certainty". And sometimes, let me add, there is no certainty of this afternoon either. Let's say you live in the modern Western world, which is more familiar to me. Modern life has endless opportunities for fun, which includes, for some, finding that meaning of life that is so hard to grasp. You can dump your partner, in case you get tired of them, and people would understand - a hundred years ago, such alleged selfishness would have been tolerated at best. Maybe it is the answer, how many I have seen spending decades of the one and only life they will ever have with significant others they barely tolerate, when not hate. You have access to an unlimited number of learning opportunities. We know that agency is supremely important for life satisfaction. You can learn to draw, write, do martial arts, sing, write a screenplay, cook delicious seafood. Assuming you have some disposable income, you can take a flight to some places that until a few decades ago had no sign of civilization. Can you imagine? You can be hypnotized, take some psychedelics, eat and drink as much as you want. Find something new in you and outside of you. What is the point of it all, you may ask. I can only answer that I haven't become rich or world famous, I don't have world-class skills, but in the fifth decade of my life, I'm having a great time living an exciting life - because I do things that excite me -, which includes some overall minor contribution to society (I don't fool myself thinking I am giving a larger than negligible contribution to society), and which I enjoy sharing with others, but only if they have the right attitude. And for me, that's the point of it all.

Chris2048 5y ago

> moving to another country, getting married, becoming a programmer to make games, have my own company and get rich I still dream of those things, except getting married. TBH 30s isn't that late - things get far more difficult if/when you have kids.

asr21 5y ago

There are some things you can have an impact on. Why not try being a really good person and not an asshole. Nothing matters in the world anyway, you won't get anything by being mean to anyone. You can try to have good memories with your family and friends. Sure, everyone will be gone after a few years and nobody will ever remember you. But you are here now, might as well have fun.