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My attempted cult recruitment

• theogravity 5y ago
  This tactic is pretty common to get you into a possible MLM scheme. It happened twice to me, and once to my wife. They'll strike up a conversation with you while shopping by commenting on a nice article of clothing or something about you, which leads into a convo about where you work, etc. They're so personable that you're thinking oh nice, I have a new friend and agree to have coffee. Then the second steps and on as the author mentions happens where they start to ask personal questions like if you're happy in life, what would it be like to not have any debt, retire early, etc. This all happens over two-three meetings where they then start to talk about they have a group or mentor they work with that can get you going with your life goals. We never made it into the actual meet the group / mentor part as we knew at this point something felt scammy about it and broke off contact after that.
  • damontal 5y ago
    My assumption based on experience is that any stranger who strikes up a conversation with me is either mentally unstable or is looking to get something from me.
    • smugma 5y ago
      Today I said “beautiful day out” to some guy who looked maybe homeless. He immediately offered me a beer, which was nice, but I declined as I had 4 kids to watch at the beach. It turned out we went to the same college (Berkeley) and he graduated a year before I started. He was on the football team and knew my old roommate, who was also on the team. He definitely was a bit weird. Visiting SF from Alaska after his wife’s death, but totally friendly and not creepy. Interesting enough that I felt like I had a story to tell without being creeped out. It’s been a long two years, and I missed these sorts of small interactions with people very different than me.
    • positus 5y ago
      That sounds like a miserable way to live. Do you have the same assumptions when others engage you in conversation over the internet, or is it only in person?
      • dharmab 5y ago
        This might be a regional/cultural difference. In my city in a flyover state, any stranger who tries to talk to you beyond small talk is almost certainly going to try to sell you something. (Obviously, outside of socialization contexts such as bars, clubs, meetups, etc)
      • SketchySeaBeast 5y ago
        Nice try cultist!
      • xwdv 5y ago
        Most people live miserable lives, especially in this day and age. Occasionally there are moments of joy, but they are fleeting.
        • recursive 5y ago
          If that's really true, I'm even more privileged than I realize. I'm rarely miserable. I thought that was pretty normal.
          • fladrif 5y ago
            To be fair, rarely do people have an accurate grasp on what normality is. Just the breadth of human experience is impossible to capture much less experience and process, not to mention the experience of people that is never expressed (I may be having a bad week, but I wouldn't express it, much less share it openly with coworkers)
            • sammalloy 5y ago
              > To be fair, rarely do people have an accurate grasp on what normality is. Well said. I’ve been thinking about this idea for a very long time. Like another user said above, the negativity bias has a large role to play here. I live in a small town and talking with strangers is considered normal and healthy.
    • woodruffw 5y ago
      I've also had plenty of terrible experiences with strangers trying to talk to me. But I think it's wrong to build a policy from that: I've also had plenty of great conversations with complete strangers, some of them in contexts where I'd be considered "captive" if I wasn't a willing participant (airplanes, trains, etc.). IMO, serendipitous conversations are a key part of a healthy society. Few things have as strong of a humanizing effect.
      • bavila 5y ago
        Context is definitely important. If I'm in a situation where I'm obviously just trying to get some work done in a coffee shop, I'd going to be very skeptical of a stranger who insists on striking up a conversation with me. It's just too pushy and frankly kind of creepy. However, I've also done some backpacking on the Appalachian Trail several years ago, and it's far more socially acceptable to start up a conversation with random people you meet along the way. It's understood that we're all strangers but we have a shared goal of hiking the trail, and what else are we going to do when we stop for the night other than chat a bit with the other people in the area? Had almost nothing but positive experiences speaking with random people while hiking, except for one nutcase (trail name was Mountain Lion) who was carrying a firearm and disclosed to me that he was kicked out of the military for mental health reasons (got to appreciate his honesty, though). I made sure to put as much distance between the two of us ASAP. Later found out he ran out of food, tried to steal from other people, and had to get airlifted out after getting injured. Good times.
        • woodruffw 5y ago
          Certainly; context accounts for a lot. I wouldn't wish Mountain Lion on anyone :-) I think what it boils down to for me is this: the world is full of loons. If we don't allow ourselves to be open to spontaneous interactions, the average spontaneous interaction we have is more likely to be one involving a loon. Those memories also tend to be more salient because of their negativity, so we need to be intentional in remembering all of the lesser but positive experiences we've had with strangers.
      • endgame 5y ago
    • xwdv 5y ago
      This has been my observation as well, and this is why I look at compliments with great cynicism, and why I do not give compliments or strike up conversations. And if I do want something from someone, I state those intentions early so they don’t think my conversation is a ruse.
      • nobody9999 5y ago
        >This has been my observation as well, and this is why I look at compliments with great cynicism, and why I do not give compliments or strike up conversations. And if I do want something from someone, I state those intentions early so they don’t think my conversation is a ruse. Please don't take this as a jab at you as it certainly isn't intended to be. That said, you express a really transactional view of human interactions. That seems to be a sad way to view the rest of your fellow humans. Transactional interactions are a normal part of life but, at least for me, I will interact with people, including strangers, because I like interacting with people, not because I want something from them. Obviously, when transacting with a cashier, a shopkeeper, a waiter, etc. it's transactional. But in other circumstances, and even sometimes in those circumstances (if that's not inconveniencing them) I will engage others without any expectations or intent to manipulate or use those folks. Sure, there are folks out there who will engage with you because they want something from you. In my experience, however (and I've lived most of my life in NYC and travelled quite a bit around the US and less around the world) most people are decent, kind people who aren't out to get something from you or trying to scam you.
    • recuter 5y ago
      You're not wrong, especially if you live in NYC or most of California. But this is a cultural thing. Roberto Benigni type people are real, they might just not be around where you live. Consider moving. Whether you move away or towards where these sort of characters congregate is of course entirely up to you. If you would like to know which places to seek out/avoid feel free to chime in. P.S. - Please don't go to Rome and expect it to be filled with Benignis.
      • fellowniusmonk 5y ago
        Best part about Austin outdoor culture is the random friendly conversations, met a dude who founded arcade fire like 6 months ago just because we we're talking about places to eat. It's just part of Austin's hippy music fest heritage and is the best part.
      • borski 5y ago
        I’ve had more serendipitous and pleasant conversations in NYC and CA (both places I’ve lived) than anywhere else. :) It’s not limited to Austin or the south. :)
        • tomcam 5y ago
          Yes. I have found people in New York City to be generally enjoyable and willing to help. The same was true in Southern California, where I lived for years. My Chinese wife was blown away at how helpful Americans tend to be.
          • gumby 5y ago
            Yes, when my cousin came to visit me she was terrified that her family would be gunned down in the street. You can’t tell from the news but Americans are generally friendly and helpful in person. The Borat film was supposed to show how deranged Americans are but the half I watched was all about people trying to be nice to him despite his antics.
            • tomcam 5y ago
    • samuellavoie90 5y ago
      In the U.S., its part of their culture that striking up a conversation with a total stranger is normal. It just looks weird to the rest of the world, but I think it works out in their favor.
      • deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
    • wslack 5y ago
      This is region dependent. In the US South its normal to have light conversations with strangers in public spaces (waiting in line, for example).
      • silisili 5y ago
        Yeah, I do this. I don't like just passing time on a phone like many seem to, so anytime I get bored(lines, DMV, airport, airplane) I'll strike up conversation. Then again maybe I'm just a bit mentally unstable...
        • JasonFruit 5y ago
          I personally love when people do that. I'm a homeschooling stay at home father, so I don't have a wide or close social circle; I thrive on those casual conversations.
          • jsnodlin 5y ago
      • astura 5y ago
        It's normal most places in the US, not just the south. I've had plenty of light conversations with strangers in public spaces in the Northeast.
    • thrownawayalre 5y ago
      That changes with kids fortunately. Parents bringing their kids to playgrounds, that have not much to do except talking to other parents. Being at a playground with their own kid filters out most mentally unstable or interested parties. Very easy to strike conversations if kids have the same age. Lots of opportunities for new and sane friendships, with who you can then double-date when their kid come home to play with yours.
      • sjg007 5y ago
        Ski resorts are another one. Everyone is there for the snow so you can chat with folks on the lift or apres ski.
        • robocat 5y ago
          There is a selection bias at ski resorts. And plenty of the interactions are a single serving, so comparatively safe. I presume you can still get an elevator/lift pitch.
      • ryandrake 5y ago
        Having a kid really expanded my social circle. Im a shutin hermit and she is a social butterfly and makes friends in seconds, so she probably knows 100x more people in our community than I do. So I frequently have to stand there hanging around with stranger parents because my kid is suddenly best friends with their kid. These interactions have grown to the point where we have a “local dads” poker night and all we have to do with each other is our kids’ social circles. It’s actually kind of wholesome.
      • thwayunion 5y ago
        The MLM stuff is STRONG in the SAHM community, though. I don't get any of it, fortunately, but for the wife it's every other convo at the playground.
    • 0_____0 5y ago
      How would you rate your social intuition? I would rate mine as moderate, undermined by anxious traits, but it's typically pretty obvious when someone is unstable/potentially dangerous or panhandling. I live in a major US metro and somewhat routinely talk briefly with people I encounter in a low-stakes way.
    • TuringNYC 5y ago
      The sad thing is that -- this is how I met almost all my friends. Through random conversations. I agree that random convos at work/school are much less likely to be MLM, but I always wonder about what i'm missing when I filter too much. My best friend from college -- 25 years still -- is someone I met on line, waiting for lunch. I get pretty annoyed with MLM sales pitches, but I dont think we should close ourselves off to the world with strict policies on social interactions.
      • bongoman37 5y ago
    • borski 5y ago
      This is a bad assumption. I often do this because I’m an extrovert and find other people interesting/fascinating, but want nothing from you and, to my knowledge, am not mentally unstable. :) To be fair, I don’t lead with “have you ever done therapy?” or “what does it mean to be alive?” haha
    • monksy 5y ago
      Or they're trying to get me to use Javascript.
    • aidenn0 5y ago
      Maybe this is false nostalgia, but I feel like this is more true post smartphones than pre-smartphones. More people will just pop out their phones and check their messages/mail/play a game rather than talk to people around them; a fair amount of casual interactions were bored people stuck waiting in the same place.
    • walrus01 5y ago
      > My assumption based on experience is that any stranger who strikes up a conversation with me is either mentally unstable or is looking to get something from me. I operate under this assumption any time I'm somewhere in a big city, unless I'm attending an event where people are specifically mixed together and expected to talk to each other (professional conference, etc) in a small town of 200-300 people/very rural area, I take a different approach of course
      • brimble 5y ago
        > in a small town of 200-300 people/very rural area, I take a different approach of course Hell, in a town that size, you know the mentally unstable folks and might even enjoy chatting with (some of) them if you see 'em at the feed store.
    • gumby 5y ago
      This is why I find it hard to just strike up a conversation, even at a conference. I’ve always admired people who can. At a party, it’s no problem.
    • alliao 5y ago
      it's so unfortunate. I am an immigrant that left my birth country quite young, but I still remember couple of good friends. Out of around 7 friends whom I remembered their name and details enough that I later track them down online, only 1 replied, the rest all said they've been burnt heaps through the years by scammers etc. And that was it.
    • leephillips 5y ago
      I pepper spray anyone who makes eye contact. So far, 100% success rate on not being recruited into a cult or MLM scheme.
    • pdonis 5y ago
      For me it depends on what kind of conversation it is. I'll gladly exchange pleasantries with strangers and even have brief conversations when it's clear what the boundaries are--for example, someone in line behind me at the supermarket, where it's understood that as soon as I've checked out, I'm leaving. Where I draw the line is when strangers try to push a conversation beyond clear boundaries, or try to push a conversation in a situation where the boundaries aren't clear and they can try to manipulate them. That's what would have put me off in the "First Contact" episode in the article. For me it probably also helps that I'm an introvert and I have no problem just ending a conversation and going back to whatever I was doing. For example, at the point where the woman started asking follow-up questions, I would have said something like "I'm not really familiar with those places, sorry", and gone back to what I was doing.
    • jimmont 5y ago
      What a remarkably unhealthy perspective. Yet engaged in communication here. My first thought was you must be American, but that could just as easily be quite a number of places and cultures across continents. In Israel personal boundaries are quite different and it's common to engage those around you in conversation. I wouldn't correlate mental stability with social norms--frankly I associate health with social engagement, so the opposite.
    • mettamage 5y ago
      If you mean that I'm bored and want to kill time by having a conversation with a stranger, then you got me.
    • rurban 5y ago
      Or it might be just a typical American. in Europe they are rare, but over in the states or on airports you are constantly small-talked about nothing. And then you can easily torpedo this small talk by actually being honest. that's what they are not used to at all.
    • Krasnol 5y ago
      I got a new job and now I have to take the lift up to my office. I regularly take the lift and have at least once a day some random chat for the duration of the lift tour. Not all strangers are that bad and(but?) this is Germany!
  • cf100clunk 5y ago
    Another tactic they'll try is to get to you as a captive audience, such as on a ferry, bus ride, in an airport waiting area during a long layover, etc. If they're on the same vacation package you'll need to be firm about avoiding them.
  • moab9 5y ago
    that's why it's best to flip the script and demand that they join your cult on the first meeting. Offer a free haircut if they balk.
    • nonrandomstring 5y ago
      There's a ton of wisdom in this. Seriously. Humour is a social lubricant and barometer/test signal. To the OP: Interesting and enjoyable story. You already said your gut instinct alarm bells were set to red alert, but you were not following them. Why? What did you hope get out of this interaction that let it go to four rounds? There's one phrase that sticks out from a training on social engineering we had here recently - "you can't con an honest person". And that means a person who is honest with themself. All this time you are thinking about "what did they want?" Maybe the question you should be asking is what did I want? To get back to work. But you didn't. If the answer is really "nothing" then a genuine friendship might be in the offing. Otherwise, one or both of you is playing a game. Test that by pushing away - not just politely playing within the polite parameters of normalcy - a good con artist will already have those exists mapped out. Chuck in an unexpected dirty or ridiculous joke. Humour throws a swerve-ball that should reset the power relationship. If you get back "psychoanalysis" instead of a belly laugh, take a walk.
  • drawkbox 5y ago
    Yeah potentially an MLM, religion or cult. The initial introduction has parallels to "flirty fishing" [1] and "love bombing" [2] which are known cult tactics. The extreme end of that is sexpionage but the early side of that is finding a single male that may have some money or influence and using that to corral them into their group, whatever that group it. This is extremely common in espionage as well if anyone works in highly sensitive or technical areas. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flirty_Fishing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flirty_Fishing [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_bombing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_bombing
    • kevin_thibedeau 5y ago
      I suspect a TLA did this to me during a background investigation. A woman (as far as I knew) divulged she was Iranian and solicited my opinion.
      • xur17 5y ago
        What is TLA?
        • ocdtrekkie 5y ago
          Three letter acronym. Aka, CIA, FBI, NSA, etc.
          • pacificmint 5y ago
            I’ve always heard it as “Three letter Agency”, when used in this context specifically.
      • walrus01 5y ago
        Did you submit a SF-86 to the OPM and were in the process of going through the formal background investigation at that time?
        • kevin_thibedeau 5y ago
  • colechristensen 5y ago
    I went to one of the MLM get-you-hooked events in a hotel ballroom. I knew what it was and was just curious what it would look like and an old high school classmate was trying to loop me in. It wasn't really cultish, just a bunch of people who didn't really understand business trying to scam you into selling their crap.
  • MiddleEndian 5y ago
    I had a guy do something similar to me. He was hanging out with some of my friends and shared the last name of two brothers we knew, so I figured he was their cousin or something. Eventually he invited me out to some fancy bar with the secret intention of trying to get me to invest in his wacky financial bullshit, which was immediately obvious after about five minutes of conversation. He kept asking about my investments and I kept giving him completely contradictory answers as he kept buying me drinks, pretending to agree with me, and telling me about some "zero risk" opportunities. Eventually when he started trying to press me for a more direct answer, I was like "nah not interested" and left, got a free meal out of it on top of the free drinks lol. Later I brought up the experience to a couple of my friends who were around when I met him and they weren't sure who he was either, apparently he was unrelated to the other guys. Never saw him again.
    • sammalloy 5y ago
      He was a con man. Watch "Better Call Saul". They have several episodes in the series featuring this exact con.
      • MiddleEndian 5y ago
        He was for sure. I'll always wonder if he noticed I was deliberately answering his questions inconsistently or just thought I was a massively confused mark. I'm part of the way through Better Call Saul, so I'm sure I'll run into it eventually.
        • DonHopkins 5y ago
          Did he ask you to let him video tape you sitting on pies? https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Squat%20Cobbler https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Squat%20Cobb...
          • MiddleEndian 5y ago
            lol I definitely need to start season 2
  • alx__ 5y ago
    I got sucked into a cult-like church in my 20s. It's like a drug when you're feeling down in life. I'm more attuned to this level of bullshit now. But not everyone is which is why these tactics work. I'll still engage if a stranger talks to me and try to be affable but will maintain a healthy level of distrust. Because sometimes people just like to chat with a stranger in hopes of friendship. Have a friend who made friends with the lead singer of a somewhat popular indie band. Didn't even know who he was until after several months of hanging out :D
  • mortenjorck 5y ago
    I once had someone I knew from college reach out a couple of years after we'd graduated with the premise of catching up and talking about "some stuff he was working on." I had no prior knowledge of MLM, but only a few minutes into our conversation, it was immediately clear to me that he was using some kind of rehearsed language, and my skepticism was raised. At some point, it segued into talk of financial independence and envisioning what that would look like for me, and it was suddenly clear to me what the psychological intent of the exercise was. I politely heard him out, suggested I'd get back to him once I'd had some time to think it over, and did so the next day, obviously declining. I hope he got back on the right track.
  • lifeplusplus 5y ago
    I once went to discuss "business opportunity" with someone, sounded odd but I was fresh freelancer and would take any work. Right away I knew it was about me and business was mlm. The guy emphasized how we are selling vitamins. I was like great, vitamins is indeed big biz but online world is bit of a winner take all, how much does it cost and then asked him to search similar product on Amazon. Behold half the price. Enjoyed watching him fold and act dumb
  • tunesmith 5y ago
    It's kind of funny when recruitment happens in a much clumsier fashion, like when I was in college there was a clean-cut sweaty guy hanging out next to the pharmacy counter, and he kept looking at me and fidgeting. Finally, when I walked a little closer and glanced at him for some direct eye contact, he blurted out, "Do you want to go to church with me?!?" At the time I thought it was creepy - years later I'm like... aww, poor kid. He must have been so nervous!
    • function_seven 5y ago
      Similar story here. One of my first jobs—still in high school–was working at an office supply chain. There was this really cute girl who was just hired. One night, as I was facing all the shelves in my section, she approaches me with this look in her eye like she had been working up the courage to talk to me. She clearly had something very important to say. I was very interested, of course! She was a hottie. "I have something to ask you...", she started, nervous and flirty-like. Is this what it's like to be hit on?, I'm thinking. "...have you accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior? You know He loves you very much." I've never before or since been whiplashed like that. I smiled politely, lied about my acceptance of Him and made an excuse to move somewhere else. Had I been thirstier, I might have joined the church just for her :)
  • incanus77 5y ago
    I came here to add the MLM angle too. It happened to me about 25 years ago, when I was working at Radio Shack during college. I'm actually only remembering some of this now. I was pretty good at sales, especially with older people, as I truly listened and tried to bridge the gap between a person's needs and what we sold, and without being too pushy. An older couple came in and asked me about (at the time) the Compaq computers that we sold. He was in a wheelchair and smelled vaguely of urine. They were sweet and asked a lot of questions about the computers and what they could do, which I was happy to oblige. It was feeling like a real solid sale potential since we had talked for so long and they had asked so many questions. After a bit, they offered me a business card and mentioned that they too were in the sales business. We agreed to meet sometime. I don't recall if I met just the two of them a second time or we moved straight to the third guy, but he was invited along. He was a bit older than me, dressed "fancy" but in a sort of shabby way, i.e. a three-piece suit that he seemed to have gotten at a thrift store. He had thick glasses and an air of desperation about him that I could recognize even as a naive kid. I think we met at a Wendy's. He soon brought up Amway. I don't remember how I got out of things, but I do remember everyone all around being pissed and implying or outright saying that I had wasted their time. But honestly, I wasn't interested. I truly wanted to continue working at Radio Shack while working on my side businesses and getting through school. I had enough going on.
    • galaxyLogic 5y ago
      What is MLM?
      • kradeelav 5y ago
        Multi-Level-Marketing. Otherwise known as a pyramid scheme.
        • lolinder 5y ago
          Strictly speaking, the two are different. A pyramid scheme doesn't involve the production or sale of actual goods or services, you're literally just rewarded for bringing other people in. An MLM will usually have a product that it sells in addition to rewarding recruitment. Theoretically, in an MLM, you can make money just by selling products. MLMs are usually shady but are technically legal. Pyramid schemes are always illegal.
  • Aerroon 5y ago
    I was invited to an MLM recruitment meeting once when I was barely out of school. To me the whole thing seemed very obvious. I could see how it would make some people money, but I knew I wasn't the type of person who could naturally pull that off. I told them as much privately and I wasn't bothered by it again. The cookies they offered were delicious though. Now that I'm older I wonder if being part of that would've taught me some of that charisma the people there exuded. They just seemed so likable and I wish I could at least emulate that.
    • astura 5y ago
      It probably would do the opposite - MLMs teach you to turn every single interaction with another human being a sales pitch. People tend to be really put off by that.
  • wespiser_2018 5y ago
    This exact thing happened to me while I was in self checkout at my local grocery store, and I found myself having the most awkward conversation about my life, goals, and this vague concept of "mentorship". I kept explaining that there are people I look up to and those people will give me advice on things, and I work for more reasons to make money, but the conversation was just very uncomfortable and bizarre. It took me a while to put my experience in perspective, or even explain it, but after a while I found out there are several of these mentorship/get rich schemes roughly based around the ideas in "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" that involve basically recruiting strangers to form an MLM like downline. The basic pitch is: "If you had all the money in the world what would you do? [insert conversation here about what you'd do] We can give that to you if you follow us!". Obviously I'm not going to follow someone who fell for that! Fortunately, I abruptly left this conversation mid-sentence because I was started to get freaked out by intrusiveness of it all. Very weird, and definitely an exploit on peoples willingness to be accommodating and friendly to strangers.
  • staticautomatic 5y ago
    I encountered this once and was just sooooo confused when they got to the part about how the mentor had helped them make all this money and achieve all these life goals. I was like, “and so now you’re…hustling people at a Starbucks in Vacaville?”
  • m463 5y ago
    that's exactly what I was thinking. A long time ago an older couple involved my then gf and I in conversations. I can't recall exactly how we met. At some point I said something like, "that sounds like amway or something"... and the husband admitted, well yes it was amway. didn't go much further after that. (actually, my actual word was "scamway", lol)
  • tippytippytango 5y ago
    Happened to me too, met them in some shop, met later at a coffee shop nearby. Thought I was making a friend and my heart sank when they mentioned their "mentor", then I knew I had been tricked. I was pissed and profoundly disappointed in myself. I just started talking and talking. I don't even remember what I said, I just didn't shut up. But, they couldn't leave because I was so nice. It was a strange intuitive reaction, it wasn't a conscious decision. It's like I pinned them down with words until I had had enough, wasting their time. The funny thing was, they got it. They didn't want to follow up, they had my number; but, never reached out again, they just wanted out of there. Whenever anyone of these people approaches me I do the same thing, I just start talking, having fun with it too. Just burning time taking about 3d printing or whatever random stuff I think of. Anytime they try to take control of the conversation... "oh wow that makes me think of..."
• thwayunion 5y ago
  I'm a bit confused. Isn't it possible that they actually were lonely/bored weirdos who are bad at social boundaries and host a (probably mind-numbingly uninteresting) discussion group? Don't get me wrong, I shut these sorts of people down at the first conversation because I hate dilettante philosophy with a passion and have a strong distaste for any hint of spiritualism. But there are underemployed folks at all my regular coffee haunts who are always chatting up willing patrons and will ask to exchange numbers if someone is patient enough to engage. But AFAICT they aren't nefarious, just bored and weird. One hocks CDs of his bad garageband compositions, but again, he's harmless. How did you jump from "cringe" to "cult"?
  • BizarroLand 5y ago
    I would say the most likely scenario is the one where they were attempting to get something from them. Based on the authors account, they weren't meeting for the purpose of talking to each other, they were using social engineering to strong-arm the author into their group. It's kind of interesting knowing that if you can get a few people to do a thing that other people will go along with it because that seems to be the thing to do. For instance, if you and a few other people start regularly working out in a park there's a good chance regular passers by may ask to join in at some point.
  • kelseyfrog 5y ago
    There is a vague conversational sense that something is off. For me, this has occurred several times just prior to receiving masonic handshakes. It's happened enough that I take notes quickly afterword in order to compile a list of keywords/phrases in order to help identify what's going on. jc, this sounds absolutely unhinged after typing it out.
    • Infernal 5y ago
      Well, can you help us identify these situations by sharing some of your notes?
    • rdtwo 5y ago
      Yeah I’ve gotten this wired vibe from religious leaders. Just a little too friendly and steering conversations into odd areas. I try to refocus the conversation back on them as the interesting subject and that breaks the pattern but with 2 it’s difficult.
• CPLX 5y ago
  It was probably Landmark or Scientology I assume. Although the “private” aspect means maybe not I guess.
  • phphphphp 5y ago
    I doubt it’s Landmark, they typically lack any subtlety and wouldn’t invest that much time in someone that doesn’t even know they’re Landmark.
    • Animats 5y ago
      Agreed. I had a friend who got into Landmark, and they're not subtle. She eventually recovered, but it took years. Religious groups and Scientology don't start out that slow. Chabad does, but their target group is limited. Some kind of scam, I expect. It seems so retro for a scam. You can scam so many people online for so little investment that a labor-intensive scam like this seems obsolete.
      • TedDoesntTalk 5y ago
        > Chabad does But they also don't sucker you into giving away your money or guilt you into doing things you don't want to do.
      • erdos4d 5y ago
        > You can scam so many people online for so little investment Honestly curious, how does one do this? I hear this a lot, but when I have tried to actually advertise legitimate services online, the ROI is insanely bad. I can't imagine a cult leader would get better results, so why do people claim this is easy online?
        • Animats 5y ago
          Check out the NFT market. Here's the pitch deck for Bored Ape Yacht Club.[1] Aimed at large investors, not the suckers. [1] https://twitter.com/LeonidasNFT/status/1505058932758360064 https://twitter.com/LeonidasNFT/status/1505058932758360064
• NoraCodes 5y ago
  Reminds me of the time that I made the mistake of talking to some Midwest Worker's Association folks. Never, ever give a Communist your phone number unless they tell you what org they're recruiting for first. Those people are _persistent_.
• vorpalhex 5y ago
  Unless you know your internal sense of "things being off" is wrong, listen to it. Often times we pick up on subtle cues before we consciously process them. Your evaluations as someone present override what your non-present friends think based off your verbal accounting.
  • wolverine876 5y ago
    Take it as a signal of something, but certainly don't take it at face value. Apply your intellectual abilities to identifying the origin of that signal. Maybe they just remind you of someone or something; maybe they unwittingly struck a nerve; etc.
  • metadat 5y ago
    +1 for "Trust your gut". Don't ignore it.
    • rdtwo 5y ago
      Your gut can be wrong especially if you are a low trust person. I’ve had a lot of times where people did something nice or did something I would never do and I was suspicious but ultimately it turned out good for me. Unexpected human kindness sets off my alarm bells every time, but it’s still a good thing
    • wildmanx 5y ago
      Not blindly though. That's also where subconscious biases live. Scientists go to great lengths to mitigate as much as possible of it. Also, the "gut" is where things like racism are rooted.
  • germinalphrase 5y ago
    There is a book called ‘The Gift of Fear’ that explores this topic in more depth for those interested.
  • pbourke 5y ago
    The friends in this story are naive clowns. If OP was a friend of mine I would have advised him to not get involved.
• deleted 5y ago
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• thr0wawayf00 5y ago
  > Again, I was tempted to cut off contact, but I asked some friends and again they all said I was insane and imagining things. Determined to prove that I was capable of normal human interaction, I carried on. It sounds to me like the author approached these interactions from a place of insecurity, which is exactly what ultra-manipulative types look for in a target. If you don't have a clear idea of what someone wants from you when they ask for your time, it's on you to speak up for yourself and get that clarity. You don't have anything to prove by deciding to continue talking to people that don't seem interested in developing a genuine relationship. > But they walked into that cafe, looked around, and decided I was the easy prey. Given that the author agreed to meet with them four times with an open mind, I'd say that the recruiters found a pretty good target, even if it was ultimately fruitless.
  • gjvc 5y ago
    This is a good set of observations. Do not act from a position of weakness. Do not take a job from a position of weakness. Do not embark on a new relationship from a position of weakness. Sadly, in such situations we are unable to see that we are in such a position, or we believe that whatever opportunity in front of us in the moment is the only one we will likely get (for the foreseeable). Not only does the mind play tricks, but various predatory parties will take advantage of people in such a position.
  • bobthechef 5y ago
    Indeed. People pleasers and "nice" people are prime targets because of insecurities and the lack of courage to be honest. "Oh, I can't refuse to meet later even if I don't want to because I might offend them." That kind of thinking. So they live out the charade and allow boundaries to be trampled just to avoid disapproval because they fear it that much. It doesn't take much to notice this vice in a person who has it. Most people pick up on it rather quickly, even if subconsciously.
  • rdiddly 5y ago
    Yeah cruel though it is, I would need to see a photo of the author if I were going to concur with his surprise that he was selected as a target. If he looks like the typical young computer nerd (while literally typing on a laptop in the café mind you), these people are thinking okay jackpot: no life[0], no girlfriend[1], plenty of money[2], book-smart[3] but not street-smart[4], and probably other things their finely-tuned spidey-sense can pick up that mine can't because I'm not a fucking sociopath. [0] so social contact makes a good lure [1] so sex makes a good lure [2] juicier target [3] which means he can almost talk himself into anything [4] less likely to recognize he's being conned/manipulated
• dools 5y ago
  Is this article the first step in a funnel to sell more ultrasonic humidifiers?
  • EamonnMR 5y ago
    I think the author has some sort of crank fear that they're filling the air with bad particles.
    • istinetz 5y ago
      The author has a very well articulated and defended fear. They're definitely not a crank, even if they've arrived at a wrong conclusion, which I doubt.
• smoe 5y ago
  I had a bunch of similar interactions like these were I grew up and about 6 with different missionaries across Latin America. Starting out with innocent seeming conversations slowly going towards selling their value prop. For me the most repugnant in most of these interactions was, how intentionally they were fishing for very personal things that I'm worried, sad or insecure about just so that they can then present their magical solution for it.
  • rdtwo 5y ago
    Yeah that’s usually the tell they are fishing too hard for insecurity or major life problem that needs a solution. It’s not a problem 1 on 1 but you don’t want to get stuck sparring against multiple opponents
• anyfoo 5y ago
  > A week later, they suggested we go to lunch again. Again, I was tempted to cut off contact, but I asked some friends and again they all said I was insane and imagining things. Determined to prove that I was capable of normal human interaction, I carried on. Your friends may mean well, but they may also be a bit dumb. You really don't have to interact with people that you don't want to if it's entirely voluntary to begin with, especially if things feel "off". It's easy to claim so in a hypothetical, but I still like to believe that had you asked me, I would have said something like "if it feels so off, don't do it". This is different from being anxious over, say, ordering a pizza over the phone (that I've seen in a few friends), where I would recommend pushing over your anxiety, because that is almost certainly guaranteed to be a short, professional, and, most importantly, absolutely un-intimate conversation. > Determined to prove that I was capable of normal human interaction Yeah, this isn't.
  • rdiddly 5y ago
    I thought you were going to say "...and most importantly, delicious, conversation."
• h2odragon 5y ago
  It does come off weird if you inquire as to people's blood type and opinion of accidental cremation straight out before you invite them over for a party... but it's best to be open and honest about these things. After all, otherwise they wouldn't know to bring a sacrifice.
• EamonnMR 5y ago
  "After 30 minutes or so, I realized I was never getting back to work so I made an excuse to leave." That's an extraordinary amount of time to put up with being interrupted.
• chihuahua 5y ago
  As a man, if any female stranger ever initiates a conversation in a cafe, I can safely assume that she has some kind of ulterior motive. That may sound cynical or sad, but that's life. Thus I can shut down this kind of interaction long before I feel obligated to meet people for brunch even though it feels awkward.
  • sammalloy 5y ago
    That hasn’t been true in like forty years. Women do initiate conversation now in modern society.
  • rdtwo 5y ago
    Lol ok.
  • aidenn0 5y ago
    That's how I met my wife? I suppose after a few kids and over a decade of marriage, she might just be playing the really long con.
    • 9530jh9054ven 5y ago
      Really depends on the individual and the circumstances. I'm defective as a person. Because of that most people are able to pick up that there's something wrong with me on some level in short order. So for me, anyone approaching me unsolicited without a clear objective is already a warning sign. Not necessarily of ill intent, just something unseen and unknown to me. Someone like you I'd assume as some sense of normalcy of being a functional human being. And I'd guess that's probably why some people would find you approachable and why someone would strike a conversation with you randomly.
      • aidenn0 5y ago
        > Someone like you I'd assume as some sense of normalcy of being a functional human being. Nobody who knows me in real-life has ever accused me of being "normal." That being said, there certainly are different levels of "weird vibe" that one can give off so I won't say that your weirdness doesn't trump mine. Also for interests of full disclosure, I'm above average height (182cm) and blonde haired, both of which probably help to tilt things in my favor for a first impression.
• mc4ndr3 5y ago
  Many horrors of the world emerge directly from the belief that one owns the one true secret to happiness. The more banal reality that there are many enjoyable ways to live, doesn't attract followers.
• reiichiroh 5y ago
  Sounds like MLM which is also sometimes part of a cult too (Amway)
• Ansil849 5y ago
  The title is inaccurate. There is nothing in here about "cult recruitment", more just the author not being comfortable with the vibe someone was giving off. Which is fine, but it's a far cry from "cult".
• TechBro8615 5y ago
  This was an annoyingly skillfully written piece. At numerous points I felt I knew better than the author, only to confront my own foolishness a few sentences later. This kept me reading while my mind drafted the HN comment about how the author is too naive and can’t say no. But true to form, the last paragraph had me questioning everything – was it I who was duped? That said, this definitely wouldn’t have happened to me, given how cold and unapproachable I am. This is great for avoiding scams and people who want to take advantage of me. However, I suspect such standoffishness has denied me many opportunities for social connection. Someone like the author is more likely to stumble into a cult, but also more likely to meet new people. So I guess you take the good with the bad.
  • jozvolskyef 5y ago
    The author's perspective is one that I find very relatable. I am often able to see when people are trying to take advantage of me from a distance, but I choose to "give them the benefit of the doubt", even though I may know that there is a very slim chance that they actually deserve it. I do this because I am curious. When your experience suggests that you can accurately read people's intentions and motivations, talking to bad faith actors becomes a fun game of figuring out what they're up to and learning about their world. A risky one, certainly, but I like playing.
    • 3np 5y ago
      And hey, as long as you're safe you're holding them off from conning more vulnerable people
  • AtlasBarfed 5y ago
    While I don't know you, you underestimate "social geniuses" and con men. Regardless of what you think of Trump politically, his is an example of the unrelenting assault of certain personality types, likely of the hypomania category. I have known possibly two or three hypomaniacs in my life, thankfully lacking sinister ulterior motives, but nonetheless the experience can be overwhelming.
• mise_en_place 5y ago
  I’d say the author took a very large risk and gamble by engaging with these types of people. Many criminals and intelligence agencies employ the same tactic, one of them will be a very attractive woman, and while you’re distracted the male will rob you or follow you in your car to your house.
• gwbas1c 5y ago
  > My attempted cult recruitment But TFA never confirmed that it was a cult. Suspicious circumstances, yes, but people who meet to discuss things privately doesn't mean cult. It could just mean they get very deep into certain topics and want to pre-screen people. OTOH: TFA was clearly uncomfortable with this couple. He was perfectly within his free will as an adult to discontinue the relationship.
• TuringTest 5y ago
  > Isn’t that… pretty much exactly what my friends from the cafe did? How do you draw the line between “sensibly taking into account how real people react” and “manipulative dark patterns to literally get people to join your cult”? Perhaps there is no clear boundary. I find the final questions interesting... bc for me, it is obvious that there is no clear-cut line, just degrees on a continuum which is healthy on one side and toxic at the other extreme. Human attention is the ultimate currency - we literally spend all of our conscious time allocating it to different uses at a constant rate, and anything that we do to catch the attention of others is asking them to divert part of that use towards ourselves for a benefit. For me, it is a moral duty to make sure that any such interaction is geared towards producing a win-win situation. This is why I consider intrusive advertising to be morally abhorrent - not just for being annoying, but because it is taking away our most valuable resource from us, without even asking for permission. Advertising should be confined to appear on limited, pre-agreed channels where you don't mind finding the occasional relevant ad. In the near future I expect that personal attention managers will supplant the dreadful Skinner boxes that social networks have been built on, and instead provide applications that serve our interests - not those from an outsider. Now I have this little private group to discuss this kind of things, wouldn't you be interested in joining? ;-)
  • TehShrike 5y ago
    That last line is probably sarcastic, but if you said "link to my Discord server is in my bio" instead of winking, I'd probably have joined >_<
    • TuringTest 5y ago
      We could always establish the Attention Seekers Club. :-P My ultimate goal is founding a religion that transforms the way of thinking of mankind, making the differences between points of view sacred (ha ha only serious) - which would imply building rituals (and code!) to find common ground, and agree to disagree in a civilized manner when that's impossible.
• jimmy2020 5y ago
  How did you discover that they were part of a cult? They just invited you to a group discussion and you didn't go to know if it's a really cult or just a bunch of people meeting and making new friends.
• Mizza 5y ago
  I lived in Berkeley, where there are still loads of little cults popping up, so this sort of thing happens fairly often. I knew somebody who was a pretty seasoned cult member and she explained to me that apparently there is a lot of competition between cults to recruit and poach high performing zealots, just like headhunters in tech.
  • rdtwo 5y ago
    How do they do it? Are there different benefits tiers and stock options,
  • buescher 5y ago
    One of the great lines from the Conan the Barbarian film (1982): "Two or three years ago it was just another snake cult"
• Geekette 5y ago
  Sounds like OP should: Practice enforcing boundaries: If what you really want is to get to work, then there's nothing rude in signalling likewise (e.g. by turning back to your laptop) or saying so directly. What is rude is people who ignore such cues and continue to try talking to you. Listen to intuition: If something/someone feels slightly off (even if you can't articulate precisely what/how), then feel free to distance yourself immediately. You can later ruminate on why at your own convenience. Recognize you don't need to justify feeling disinterest in or even active dislike of someone on sight. They might even be perfectly good people but if you're not drawn to engage, then that's your prerogative. You certainly don't need to prove or disprove their decency/motives by continuing to engage.
• sircastor 5y ago
  About 15 years ago, I was listening to a podcast that was largely about economic philosophy and personal freedoms. High on the libertarian views and it appealed to me at the time. I heard about a meeting organized by the people who made that podcast and decided to check it out. The podcast and related organization were connected to a property investment system at the height of the housing bubble. My wife decided to go with me. We met in the basement of an unfurnished house. There was an American Flag on a free-standing pole. We said the pledge of allegiance and I think there might have been an ambiguous prayer. Then we watched a video of some sort by the founder of the podcast. The experience was very weird. It set off my “this is weird” alarms which made me step away from it. The founder eventually went to prison for running a Ponzi scheme. I think people very much want to belong to a group, and be told that the way they view the world is right. And there are plenty of people who are happy to tell you you’re right and you belong if you’ll just offer yourself up to them.
• madrox 5y ago
  This story is a really great argument for "trust your gut." You don't always need an eloquent articulation of why something is off for it to be real. Also, no experience gets better than the initial meet. If something feels off initially, that feeling will never go away.
• CTDOCodebases 5y ago
  "What was going on here? I saw three possibilities: 1.They wanted to be friends. 2.They wanted to have sex with me. 3.They wanted me to join their religion." I would add the following to that list: 4. They wanted to sell me something. 5. All of the above.
• deleted 5y ago
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• BlueTemplar 5y ago
  > How do you draw the line between “sensibly taking into account how real people react” and “manipulative dark patterns to literally get people to join your cult”? Perhaps there is no clear boundary. Hmmm, reminds me of the spectrum of the "Pickup Artist" tricks...
  • sjg007 5y ago
    It's all the same stuff. Worth learning about to immunize yourself from these things. The very first 10 mins of the Apple+ show We Crashed is a master class of some of the techniques.
    • BlueTemplar 5y ago
      My point was that some of the "techniques" are just things that humans do naturally - noticing that gives you quite a lot of power (but also responsibility).
• trentgreene 5y ago
  "Look. We’re not going to beat around the bush" during the _fourth_ meeting made me chuckle
• tomcam 5y ago
  > Still, what I really wanted was to get back to work. It felt rude to say that outright, and they didn’t seem to notice how my eyes kept drifting back to my notebook. This is very hard for some people (I am not being facetious here), but cult weirdos or not, it’s really important to be able to say something like “Thanks for chatting but I’m going to work now.“ No apology is necessary. Nothing equivocal in the words they can grab onto and argue with. No lying, polite or or otherwise. You may need to practice this in the shower or the car. You may need to practice it on people even when you don’t necessarily need to go. But you need to practice it if you are a born and trained people pleaser like me. I regard not being able to do so as something close to life-threatening, because when you are raised to put other people’s interests before your own, you can spiral into incredible depression and self abuse.
  • throwawayboise 5y ago
    Yes, being able to politely but clearly say "no" when people ask you to do something is an important skill. I struggle with it myself. People who are experts at imposing on other people's time will latch on to any crack you leave open. Don't give reasons. You might think "I'm sorry, but I don't have time to get involved in that" is clear, but they will counter with "it won't take much time at all." Just say "no, thank you, but I must decline" or something that doesn't leave any room for further discussion.
    • tomcam 5y ago
      Very well put. It’s an essential skill.
    • dmichulke 5y ago
      They might reply with some form of "But why?" in which case the best answer is - "this is none of your business" or - "because I want to". If they're extremely manipulative, they'll follow up with more "why?"s but you just keep repeating these two until their why's are exhausted or you leave with a "So... bye" This technique is called the broken record in the book "When I say no I feel guilty" which talks basically only about these types of interactions.
    • 5y ago
• lowwave 5y ago
  Hey if it was free, why not give it a try?
• deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
• analog31 5y ago
  An amusing factoid is that they always come in two's, so one of them can squeal on the other if they go off script.
• walrus01 5y ago
  > They wanted to have sex with me. > They wanted me to join their religion. based on what I know of "new age" cults these two things are not always mutually exclusive ask anyone from an older generation who lived through the late 1960s/early 1970s as a young adult... in the modern era I'd wager there's some degree of venn diagram overlap between MLM recruitment and "open relationship" people too actually as I recall an example of this was shown in entertainment media in the 1999 movie "Go" where a cop and his wife are also running a MLM thing and try to recruit/sleep with one of their targets
  • tonyarkles 5y ago
    My wife and I generally ask: Were they: 1. Trying to sleep with me/you/us? 2. Trying to get us to join their church? 3. Trying to get us to join their MLM scheme? And that conversation always turns into “well maybe it was two from the list? Or maybe even all three!” We’ve definitely met MLM swingers and MLM church people, but I don’t know that we’ve ever met the trifecta!
• mquander 5y ago
  > But here’s an uncomfortable analogy: I’ve talked before about how when I first wrote about ultrasonic humidifiers, everyone dismissed the argument for “nonsense” reasons, like not having any citations. Eventually, I realized I could change my argument to avoid that reaction: I was “calmer” and put the citations earlier. Most importantly, I knew that if I clearly stated my thesis early on, would dismiss my article without reading it. So instead I let my claims appear gradually. (I’m not stating that thesis here, either, for the same reason.) Isn’t that… pretty much exactly what my friends from the cafe did? How do you draw the line between “sensibly taking into account how real people react” and “manipulative dark patterns to literally get people to join your cult”? Perhaps there is no clear boundary. The ethical thing to do is whatever you think helps other people. If you think people reading your article are trying to learn true, useful things about humidifiers, it's good to write the article in whatever way is conducive to that. If instead you wrote it in a way designed to make you look the best, or to sell humidifiers, that would be a problem.
  • deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
• emerged 5y ago
  It seems like the author was broadcasting a lack of boundaries / submissiveness. Ignoring all your intuitive warning bells and letting them continue to completely dictate the reality-framing let’s them slowly build illegitimate trust. They apparently didn’t quite get the pacing right and failed, but seems like they were well on the path.
• tunesmith 5y ago
  What a fun article. It's not about cults at all, it's about "In what order should I communicate my points to best get the point across, and are some orders unethical?" I think about this a lot in terms of argument graphs. Imagine a DAG where premises are on the bottom and the conclusion (or conclusions) are on top. And, like most compelling arguments, the premises are unsurprising and widely held, while the conclusion is wildly counterintuitive. Finally, pretend that the argument is actually valid and true - it's legitimately something new. In what order should you communicate the argument? Do you start top-down? The author tried that with humidifiers and it didn't work at all. Do you start at the very bottom, with the uncontroversial friendly stuff? Well, that's pretty much what the cult did. I prefer a blend of sorts, but it's difficult to systematize. Basically, you're kind of starting at the bottom, but with little spoilers and hints of where you're trying to lead the presentation.
• swayvil 5y ago
  We have a cult in my town. They brand themselves a flavor of sufi. They have a few businesses. A couple seats on the city council. Imagine talking to a guy who's trying hard to sell you a used car. It's like that. Really pushy and manipulative. They focus their recruiting efforts on teens, children, college students. They have a private kindergarten/gradeschool. Years ago I read an FBI list of standard psychological manipulation techniques used by cults. Then I saw them in action at their local coffee shop. Hey, they're "Love Bombing" that person! I was talking to one of their members. Sure we're a "cult". Sure we practice "mind control". Then he proceeds to tell me their special definitions for cult and mind control. That's called "taking control of the language". They use their members as cheap labor at their businesses. And send the profits to their headquarters in Bangladesh where they have some schools, businesses and an orphanage. The leadership has very nice cars. My friend was in it for a few years. Then the "Murshid" (top guy) ordered my friend to send his daughter to their special school in Bangladesh. He noped out at that point.
• jancsika 5y ago
  > How do you draw the line between “sensibly taking into account how real people react” and “manipulative dark patterns to literally get people to join your cult”? Perhaps there is no clear boundary. Are you kidding? The difference was glaring when (and why) they asked you to go private. You want to teach people facts about humidifiers and then (hopefully) see if it stand up to independent inquiry. You changed your approach so that others wouldn't simply dismiss your evidence out of hand. These two would have eventually removed your ability to independently inquire. If you went to a private place with them, there would be a guru whose entire goal would be to use your insecurities and skepticism against you in order to disorient you to such a degree that you become highly suggestible. Could be with lighting, trance music, scented candles, $foo, chants, group games, or anything that pushes your physical and emotional boundaries past what you'd normally be comfortable with, etc. You get a warm feeling, then-- bam-- the guru attributes it all to $foo. Now all your reasoning abilities are fighting against the possibility that there might really be something to this $foo thing. Probably anyone whose been involved rescuing cult members will confirm how dangerous they are. But also consider your own evidence-- how many times did you profess even the mild kind of skepticism that litters HN threads here? From what I read, it seems like you didn't even explicitly mention your intimacy schedule or other red flags as you experienced them. In fact, your only pointed question seemed to come at the very moment they tried to rope you in by asking to go private. In other words-- you gave them time to make their entire cult pitch to you, and only really put up any noticeable friction at the last moment. The lesson is decidedly not how we're all a little bit like cult recruiters. It's that you were close to becoming indoctrinated in a cult. Remember the shot of adrenaline when the sirens started shrieking for you? Now imagine that happening while being surrounded by a room full of those people, with a guru looking directly at you waiting for you to explain the feeling of receiving $foo. And all it would have taken was one more innocent thought about wanting to meet a few more friends. I just realized how alarmist that last line is! I mean, do go and meet more friends. Just not ones in cults. Since you avoided this cult, just remember the feeling of them slowly pushing your boundaries, and use that as a filter in the future.
• bendbro 5y ago
  1. People can singularly hold views that seem radically different to the average person. Label them skeptics, crackpots, etc. 2. People can collectively hold views that seem radically different to the average person. Things like common religions, major political parties, etc don't fit in here: people may disagree with ideas in religions or politics, but the ideas themselves aren't radically different Individuals of #1s and #2s cling to their beliefs and sometimes define themselves by those beliefs. I'm assuming cults fit in #2, but are there #2s that aren't cults?
• jimt1234 5y ago
  This type of thing happened to me all the time back in college, except the "cult" was Christianity. It was sorta common on campus, though. But I think I got it a little more because I was a bit of a loner. So many over-friendly dudes wanted to save my soul. Youngs, is this still a thing on college campuses?
  • assbuttbuttass 5y ago
    I got "recruited" into a Christian church just a few years ago when I was in college. I was doing an internship over the summer so most of my friends were out of state and I was a bit lonely. I met a group of friendly people on campus, and we had a conversation similar to those described in the article, a lot of deep and personal topics. I ended up going to their church a few times, but I felt weird about it considering I'm an athiest
• motohagiography 5y ago
  >1. They wanted to be friends. >2. They wanted to have sex with me. >3. They wanted me to join their religion. I may know someone who writes like this. Very interested in how someone converts online comments into having sex with readers or getting them to join a religion, presumably one in which they also have sex with readers. They need to know how not to do that so they know what to avoid.
• geeky4qwerty 5y ago
  The author provides 3 possible explanations, but I believe there is a fourth (touched on by another post): 4. They want to sell you something.
• satisfice 5y ago
  Who is Dynomight? I have a hard time reading the work of anonymous people, because I have no frame of reference to interpret them. May he looks like a guy who is easily led.
• geoffmanning 5y ago
  This was ALMOST a story worth sharing. The author made a big leap in their conclusion without enough evidence to be compelling, and basically just confirmed their friends' judgements that they were being paranoid. I feel a little sad for the author and hope they break out of their box and live a little. Talk to more strangers. If it seems shady, definitely get out of the situation, but unless something ACTUALLY happens, why waste someone else's time with a story that doesn't have a compelling conclusion?
  • xabotage 5y ago
    You seem to be missing the point. Cults thrive on manipulating social interactions and slowly chipping away at others' boundaries. No cult pitches the shadiness up-front for the incredibly obvious reason that it scares away targets; instead they slowly coax people into taking one "reasonable" step after another until they can't recognize the shadiness for what it is in the moment. The compelling conclusion is that people who think they can easily spot cult recruitment tactics are in fact perfect targets for cults.
    • geoffmanning 5y ago
      No, i got all that, although i don't know that i agree with that conclusion (but i also don't care to argue for or against it). My point is that there are actual stories about people getting recruited into cults that are worth reading (or even ACTUALLY almost getting recruited, rather than someone that jumped to a conclusion before actually investigating to see for themselves). A story about a guy who THINKS he MAY have been courted by cult recruiters is just... dull. If you found that story interesting, i have a ton a stories i've never shared about things that almost might have happened.
• hbarka 5y ago
  I’ve been with a couple of companies where the “corporate culture” thing was heavily preached by HR. You could call it cultish because of the endless training and mantra about mission and passion and competition and a whole slew of other words ending in -ion. It was only when I met others who had also left where we finally spoke easy and realized we had the same sentiments.
• shmde 5y ago
  > A week later, they suggested we go to lunch again. Again, I was tempted to cut off contact, but I asked some friends and again they all said I was insane and imagining things. Anon should first cutoff contact with those creeps then he should cut off contact with his friends.
• sixstringtheory 5y ago
  I hiked the Long Trail in Vermont some years ago, and there’s a cafe/hostel in Rutland called the Yellow Deli run by 12 Tribes. The joke amongst hikers was that if you stayed there for more than 2 nights, you’d never leave. They left “trail magic” food advertising their establishment, which was pretty tasty, especially to someone with a strong case of hiker hunger. And they’d be very friendly with you while you are at the cafe. Their flyers were completely over the top. Made for some entertaining reading for a day.
• lormayna 5y ago
  Pretty common tactics. When I was young I spent couple of months in UK. I was looking for a job and a girl come close to me, asking if I were Italian (she can recognize me by the accent and by the clothes) and suggesting me to bring my CV to local Staples that was looking for staff. She asked me where I live and we exchanged phone numbers (I thought this was interested on me). We start messaging and after few messages, she told me that she was married and she had two kids, so I slowly stop the chat. After 10 days, I was at home and she rang at my door with his husband a friend. They would like to invite me to a meeting in London, without providing much details. My family was part of a semi cult movement, so I am able to recognize to recognize those threats and the cult recruitment tactics. Then I asked more details and after lot of debate they reveleade to be part of Jehova witness. I told them that I was not interested and to don't try to recruit me again and I slam the door. They come back other times, but I did not open the door, then I found some Jehova witness flairs on my postbox. After I left and come back, my flatmate told me that they come several times looking for me and inviting him as well to the meetings.
• kayxspre 5y ago
  Ever since I started working in 2015, I often encounter a salesperson from a company that engaged in lead conversion for its customers. They are almost everywhere I've been in my city. What they do is to sell stuffs and donate proceeds/profits from sale to the charity they are working with at that point. While this may not look out of place, the fact that they approach people with a slight lead of "helping charity" only to sell its products make me wary and try to avoid them. What they do is that they will have a short activity to get people to sympathize with their cause (asking to write made-up pet's name to vote on what necessities is important to it), then they will describe that they are doing CSR work for its company in association with the charitable organization. They will conclude the conversation by asking us to purchase products, and some salesperson outright saying that it's a donation (when in fact it isn't). They fix a minimum price of their stuff at $15, but they will try to get a bundle of $60, and when I say I don't have that much, they will keep dropping the price, as low as $3 (no stuff). With the minimum wage here is $10 a day, whatever they're trying to sell is just too expensive.
• qwerty456127 5y ago
  By the way, it's quite fun to join a cult intentionally. I did that a number of times in my early 20ies. It means such an unusual situation to create: you sort of take them seriously and not at the same time. You listen to them with reasonable openness and attention (often extracting some useful thoughts from their philosophies) and even with fair amount of basic human sympathy but without falling into blind faith like ordinary victims or even allowing a slight amount of unnoticed effect on your reason. This is an exercise which can benefit both you and the people from the cult (who often are ordinary members there and are going to get disillusioned with it soon - and an experience of meeting a person who didn't get charmed yet agreed to be open to them is going to help them). It usually ends by both parties losing interest in each other gradually: you stop hearing anything new from them, get bored and give up attending their meetings, they give up inviting actively because they understand they can't really have you anyway.
• goatcode 5y ago
  The person writing this seems really overly-agreeable. It's interesting to see that such people exist, and that the couple could pick him or her out from a crows like that. I guess cults really do have some practice and skill in that regard.