49 ms·

I Am Seriously Considering Going Back to Desktop Computers (2020)

207 points by ivanvas 5y ago

maxbaines 5y ago
Also thinking the same, looking for a monitor for my Surface Laptop 3 (Running Linux) and realising the lack of HDMI port really makes this a challenge USB C for a monitor lacks options currently, so am looking at dongle hell.
- bufferoverflow 5y ago
  It's not hell. One type C to HDMI dongle. I use one.
  - vladvasiliu 5y ago
    Even better: there are type-c to HDMI cables, no dongle at all.
  - maxbaines 5y ago
    I should have been clearer, it would be really nice to just have one single USB C lead from my laptop to a monitor for video and PD. Overall I am happy with USB C. Having a laptop with many cable's connected for me defeats the object hence me looking at desktops.
    - dont__panic 5y ago
      Sounds like a prime use case for a dock or one of those multiport dongles. What's holding you back?
      - maxbaines 5y ago
        As above I am trying to avoid multiple cable's in the laptop, be ideal to have just one USB C for HDMI and PD, A laptop with a load of cables in it for me defeats the object, at that point I may as well use a Desktop.
        tomjen3 5y ago
        I Displayport and power over a single USB-C with my Dell U2720Q. I would recommend a longer cable than the one provided if you want your computer to connect to a usb-c on side that doesn't face the monitor.
        dont__panic 5y ago
        Interesting. I use a single TB3 cable connected to my Caldigit TS3+ to connect: - dual 4k60hz monitors - keyboard - mouse - webcam - microphone - ethernet - ... other miscellaneous things I'm forgetting One cable, dock setup. I guess I don't understand how a dock would force you to use multiple cables, since that's what they're supposed to help prevent?
- vladvasiliu 5y ago
  Something that's worked well for me is using "docks" with my laptops. I'm typing this over a cheap-ish (80€) Chinese thing from Amazon [0], which gives me power, a bunch of USB 3 A ports, one C, gigabit network, HDMI and DisplayPort, and audio in/out (didn't try it). The video is pass-through, as opposed to a DisplayLink chip. One thing to be aware of, is it requires two USB-C connectors. I've never tried only using one, since the provided cable has a dual-connector. It also looks quite nice, doesn't feel cheap at all. MS, Dell, HP, Lenovo all sell similar contraptions, but they're much more expensive. At work I have a HP G5, which works well, and uses a single USB-C port. You can also find cheaper alternatives that only do HDMI. --- [0] https://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/B09MTTZ36K/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8 https://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/B09MTTZ36K/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_...
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - maxbaines 5y ago
    Interesting for some reason did not consider a dock, that one looks great but the Surface Laptop only has one USB C port. Will take a look at the MS version though thanks.
    - maxbaines 5y ago
      Eek £250 for the MS one https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/d/surface-dock-2/8qd908364sg2 https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/d/surface-dock-2/8qd908364sg...
      - vladvasiliu 5y ago
        There are also products like these: https://www.amazon.fr/Concentrateur-Anker-adaptateur-PowerExpand-Pixelbook/dp/B087QZVQJX https://www.amazon.fr/Concentrateur-Anker-adaptateur-PowerEx... Don't know what they're worth, though.
        maxbaines 5y ago
enraged_camel 5y ago
My primary computing device is a desktop PC. I have four monitors hooked up to it (two horizontal, two vertical). The primary monitor is for browsing. The secondary horizontal monitor is for coding. The two vertical ones are for things like reading logs/documentation, and for various chat apps (Slack/Discord/WhatsApp/Signal - yes I use all). I started a new job recently and they got me a top of the line Macbook Pro. For the first two weeks, my productivity was in the gutter. Not because I'm not used to MacOS, but because going from four 27" screens to a single 15" screen was devastating. Things improved significantly once I bought an ultrawide, but I'm still having to do a significant amount of desktop-switching (using the three-finger swipe) and it's just not good. I know the MBP supports more monitors but I'm out of desk space!
- gowld 5y ago
  How often do you visit your chiropracter?
  - rietta 5y ago
    Desktop is actually better for that. At least getting the laptop up to eye height with good posture. My chiropractor says they see more younger patients (30s and 40s) with degenerative disk disease in the neck related to laptop and smart phone use.
q_andrew 5y ago
Large home desktop, cheap replaceable linux laptop is the perfect combo. I've saved so much money over the years by swapping out desktop parts and using a beat-up thinkpad for off-location work. Every once in a while I'm missing a newer display port, but overall it's a great system.
- nicolaslem 5y ago
  How do you keep the laptop in sync with the desktop?
  - 5e92cb50239222b 5y ago
    I just rsync the root partition from time to time, ignoring /efi and /etc/fstab. Although this (obviously) only works in one direction, but that's enough for my use case.
  - q_andrew 5y ago
    I don't, but the things that I do are modular enough that I can make parts separately and plug them in when I come back.
  - WhatIsDukkha 5y ago
    Not OP but - wireguard to git host of choice git-annex is an awesome thing and much more useable then any of the normal sync services across the board (once you understand what it can do). ansible to make all the hosts consistent configuration wise
  - hddherman 5y ago
    Syncthing has worked fairly well for this. It has some caveats, and I don't recommend syncing anything other than some specific directories in your home folder to avoid conflicts with syncing config and cache folders. What I synced: ~/files (contains all my projects, cat pictures etc.) ~/ide (contains just the IDE installation and other apps) ~/.ssh
    - smoldesu 5y ago
buro9 5y ago
I have done this. During the pandemic I switched jobs and got a new MacBook Pro... it failed, then it failed again, and again. I sent it back a few times and each turn-around took a couple of weeks. Whilst that happened I still had to do some work and fell back on my gaming PC. It wasn't a good PC, just an entry level gaming PC. Yet I found it out-performed my MBP for a load of things I cared about: Running Google Meet without fans spinning to full speed, reactivating a Google Doc tab almost instantly rather than it appearing to be blank for 30 seconds. Things like that. The MBP finally got repaired, but I've owned that for barely 2 years now (it was new at the time) and it's been out of action about 10% of the time. In the meantime my desktop has been rock solid and reliable. Recently I figured I'd do something different... sell the entry level gaming machine and build a desktop with work in mind. The result has been really great, with a silent and powerful desktop based on components I like and that work together. It runs Linux, and a surprise to me I'm also running Windows. Everything just works, and it all works well and the computer is fantastic at every task I throw at it. This includes local dev, compiling things, lots of meetings, webinar editing, and some occasional gaming post-work. I still have the MBP... it's not a primary work device, my experience with Apple means I don't trust the machine at all, but for a travel device it feels fine and it's that which gave me confidence to go all-in on a desktop.
- bitwize 5y ago
  The M1 MBP is a new class of machine. Rock solid, faster than just about any other laptop, insane battery life, immune to the thermal issues that plagued Intel MBPs. It could probably easily replace that desktop you built with power to spare.
  - MathCodeLove 5y ago
    I can say the same about the M1 Mac Mini and its much cheaper
    - cpach 5y ago
      Indeed. AFAICT it’s a damn fine computer.
upofadown 5y ago
UEFI is OK if the user can disable it. It is clearly a restraint of trade issue. We probably just need to make a law.
pSYoniK 5y ago
Whenever I reach the point of thinking about getting a laptop to replace my desktop I keep being reminded that my desktop has parts that are at this stage around 9 years old. I am reminded that it still does everything I need, it still connects to anything I want, any way I want and it still runs my os(es) of choice without batting an eye. And if a part fails? The used market provides! I am so sad to see things go down this path and it is so frustrating to see common sense beaten to death by some product manager, marketing vp or CEO saying that thin, light and unrepairable is the future...
- secondcoming 5y ago
  My desktop is a 4790k, so maybe not far off the age of your system. I had to buy a laptop due to covid and, to be fair, things have progressed on the laptop front so much that it outperforms my desktop. I now only use the desktop for gaming as I didn't bother getting a discrete GPU on the laptop. The laptop is high-spec and costly (Dell Precision 7750), so much so that I doubt my employer would have bought it for me. So costly, in fact, that it makes no financial sense to upgrade my desktop.
- lostmsu 5y ago
  I am still using my 6yo Dell Inspiron I got for $500 now and then.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - ashtonkem 5y ago
    I ran my second hand Dell computer from work for about half a decade, it cost $75 when I bought it from work after a merger. The CPU finally called it quits, and I parted it out for a profit.
rhn_mk1 5y ago
I was considering what to switch to from my elderly ThinkPad. Imagine my surprise when I discovered that newer ThinkPads go as far in the direction of less user control that they stopped providing BIOS revisions that don't contain openly advertised "anti-theft" spyware. https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/Other-Linux-Discussions/Replacing-W-BIOS-with-P-BIOS-Non-Absolute-Persistence-Module/td-p/4611154 https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/Other-Linux-Discussions/Replaci... I never want to enable it, and I don't want to live in the danger of enabling it by accident, either. If it reported to infrastructure that I own, I'd be talking different.
_Algernon_ 5y ago
A website in 2022 that doesn't use HTTPS? It takes like 5 minutes to install certbot...
- hedora 5y ago
  ... and a lifetime to monitor and administer it.
  - kstrauser 5y ago
    Time I've spend monitoring and administering certbot over the last few years: 0.
  - genghizkhan 5y ago
    Certbot (and other acme clients such as acme.sh) are practically set and forget. I’ve never once had to touch those configs again once they were made ~4 years ago.
    - justsomehnguy 5y ago
      Certbot is a snap application nowadays. I was pretty screwed up when I decided to install it on CentOS system without SELinux, which snap requires. But I would agree here, even when I had the problems with LE (botched cron config) it only required me to 'administer' it 4 times a year. And when I fixed cron config I don't need to do even that.
      - genghizkhan 5y ago
        I’ve personally switched to using acme.sh over certbot. Much easier to setup (since it’s just a bash script) and supports practically every DNS API.
mbustamanter 5y ago
Previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24889488 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24889488
StillBored 5y ago
I think this guy is pretty confused about UEFI, which is little more than a boot abstraction. It doesn't lock anyone out, although secure boot can be used to do so, but so can any other firmware (phones anyone?). So at this point, the fact that UEFI secure boot standardizes how users can enroll their own keys/etc make it probably the _best_ of the current choices. The part he seems to be confused about are the PEP's required for modern standby, because instead of extending the UEFI/ACPI specification to cover those corner cases (or wedging them into the existing notification mechanisms) they allow platform providers to continue to create machine specific power management blobs that aren't portable between OS's. The older ACPI power methods, were of course opaque as well, but the API was standard enough that non Microsoft OS's weren't at a disadvantage. https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/device-experiences/platform-design-for-modern-standby https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/dev...
- jokethrowaway 5y ago
  He was probably referring to secure boot when talking about UEFI, which effectively prevents you from installing linux (unless you know exploits or you get the unlock code from the manufacturer). That said UEFI sucks and it inflicts unnecessary pain every time I setup a new computer.
  - spicybright 5y ago
    Can you really not turn off UEFI in the BIOS settings? I don't think I've ever used a computer that didn't have an option to unlock it, as far as I know.
    - rstat1 5y ago
      No you cannot "turn off UEFI". You can make your UEFI-enabled board boot in a BIOS compatibility mode for some things. But that isn't turning it off.
    - akvadrako 5y ago
      Your terminology is really confused. UEFI is the firmware that boots the computer and is a replacement for a BIOS. There are no "BIOS settings" on modern computers.
headcanon 5y ago
Sounds like the author's concern is that as more devices move towards becoming locked-down consumer appliances in the future that they will eventually lose control, making the DIY-desktop the only "safe" choice. I agree with the premise in the large, but the success of the Framework laptop tells me the market will always support a reasonably open, linux-friendly device. Also, I don't know a ton about UEFI but I remember the anxiety around it, has that materialized at all? I haven't had a problem installing linux on recent model Lenovo and Dell laptops which I believe had UEFI, so is it really a problem?
- zekica 5y ago
  Yes it has materialized somewhat. The UEFI and Secure Boot are not the issue here - neither is uBoot/fastboot on phones. The issue is who holds the keys - if it is the owner of the device, then great! But most laptops and phones don't allow you to set your own keys, just Microsoft's or OEM's, and that is what the issue is. Linux distributions work around this by either explicitly requiring disabling Secure Boot / Unlocking the bootloader, or having Microsoft sign a shim that they can use and using that allow the user to add additional trusted keys.
- jsmith45 5y ago
  I've not seen much issue from UEFI beyond mobo manufacturers occasionally releasing really buggy firmware. UEFI also permits rather advanced features. For example, if a mobo manufacvtorer wanted to, they could theoretically code in support for using a USB monitor for the bootup display, enabling firmware access without any video adapter on board at all. One can quite easily add new boot-loaders to the EFI system partition, and add the entries to NVRAM, making it possible to add add custom pre-boot diagnostics programs, or a small direct-boot emergency recovery kernel, or other fancy features.
dmortin 5y ago
I like that if I'm on the move I can take my laptop and I have my complete work environment with me, I can continue my work wherever I'am, etc. How one could replicate this with a desktop + laptop combo? Setting up a work environment which syncs between the two constantly?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- JoeAltmaier 5y ago
  How can you drag three monitors with you whereever you go? Just the full-sized keyboard would be a drag. I have three desktops. Projects are on SSD VMs that I carry, or in the cloud. So no issues about syncing.
- justsomehnguy 5y ago
  And what would you do if you lose your laptop? With that in mind (except probably a very heavy data) you already need a way to sync your environment... to something, depends on what are you doing. And if you can sync it for a fast recovery then, probably, you can make it sync between N+1 computers.
- ImprobableTruth 5y ago
  If your work environment is reproducible this shouldn't be an issue. Nix works well for me personally. Another boon is that if your system goes kaput for whatever reason, you've already done the legwork to immediately get up and running again.
- sto_hristo 5y ago
  Remote to your desktop from your laptop and never worry about losing/breaking the laptop. I've spent little over a year on a job where i remote desktop'd to office computer from home in a WFH scenario. Was perfectly doable and stable. In this way you won't need the laptop at all and can use a nice tablet. I'm thinking of going this way, but not quite there yet.
  - 5y ago
richardfey 5y ago
What's the purpose of using 2012 hardware to avoid UEFI? All UEFI-capable hardware I have used had options to disable secure boot from the BIOS or would boot signed Linux kernels anyways.
maliker 5y ago
I remote into a desktop wired into my home cable modem and basically use my macbook as a thin client a lot of the time. Modern remote desktop software is crazy good. Using parsec.app even from hotels it's almost like I'm sitting at the machine.
fabian2k 5y ago
Running at full load without noise is something that is easy to achieve on a desktop if you want it, and almost impossible on notebooks with any kind of comparable processing power. The coolers and fans you can put into a desktop are just so much larger and quieter than anything that can fit into a notebook. If you care about fan noise and regularly put high load on your computer, a desktop provides much better options here. But I was also surprised just how much processing power you can put into a modern notebook, my Ryzen 8 core CPU in my notebook is not that much slower than the one in my desktop (which is a bit older than the notebook). But the desktop is silent at 100% CPU load, the notebook isn't. For me the biggest issue though is monitors, I like to have two large screens. A single screen always feels somewhat limiting to me.
bachmeier 5y ago
It's not the topic of the article, but I will never understand how anyone can do work like programming and data analysis, or even write reports that pull together information, without a desktop computer.
- genericone 5y ago
  Lenovo dock(no squid), and 2 vertical 27" 2k monitors, of course.
- tomjen3 5y ago
  Same way you would with a desktop: external screen, pointer and keyboard.
- kayodelycaon 5y ago
  When I’m not using a docking station to turn my laptop into a desktop, I tab between windows, use exposé, and have multiple virtual desktops. It’s fairly chaotic but my spatial memory handles it pretty well.
tekchip 5y ago
I've always maintained separate desktop and laptop. No laptop has ever run as well as a properly built desktop. The bottom line is physics. Never will hardware crammed into a tiny case, a laptop sized case, perform as well as desktop components in even a slightly larger case. Even less so than components in a real mid tower allowed to be effectively cooled and run wide open. It's just the physics of it.
- hurflmurfl 5y ago
  The bottom line, in my opinion, is whether you can fit the computing power you need into a certain size and budget. If you only browse reddit, you can. If you want to play new AAA games at 4k@120Hz, probably not. If it fits, and you can take the typically higher price, then going for the theoretically "more optimal/efficient" would scratch the "optimizer itch", but is arguably of no importance. Just like getting a nice $200 chef knife gets you a nice blade that cuts better and is more maintainable than the one you can get for $5, but if you only cut tofu, all those benefits are pretty abstract.
rhplus 5y ago
What I like about desktop computers in a WFH role is that they are tied to a physical space. The desktop is where I do my work and once I shut the door for the day, I’m done. No temptation to sit on the couch in the evening catching up on emails and reviews. I have to physically move to my desk to be in work mode. That separation is very valuable for a long term WFH gig.
- llaolleh 5y ago
  Word. But now I have a negative emotions in that workspace because I don't enjoy my day job :/.
  - sokoloff 5y ago
    Better to have those negative emotions confined to that workplace than to that workplace, your couch, your bed, the dining room table, and the kitchen counter.
    - drstewart 5y ago
      By that logic, even better to have those outside the home and in a physically dedicated workspace owned by your company. Suddenly, I feel like there will be some mental gymnastics to justify why WFH is okay but WFlaptop isn't.
      - sokoloff 5y ago
        Prior to pandemic, that is how I felt. (I expected to hate WFH; it turns out I love it, but I did enjoy the forced break and time for podcasts that the commute provided.)
      - PyWoody 5y ago
        I'm in the WFH-and-hate-my-job group but I would never go back to the office. I would rather shut a door and ignore my office than have to go back to commuting to a job I hate. My day ends in seven minutes. In eight minutes, I'll be outside enjoying my yard.
nottorp 5y ago
I thought it was going to be about usability not user freedoms. I dont understand people who work on a tiny 15” screen when they can have multiple large monitors. Yes, you can use externals with your laptop but then you need to invest in a squid (commonly called dock?) that will link your stuff to the laptop. And disconnect/reconnect your stuff when you go away. Also let’s not forget the full size keyboard. I suppose that’s why no code coding initiatives come out once in a while, those people can’t stand typing on their laptop :) My solution is one serious desktop with everything and one mid range laptop that I can work on if needed, but avoid like the plague.
- julianlam 5y ago
  Depending on the monitor/laptop combination and their support for USB-C that's not too much of a hassle. For reference, I am using an XPS 13 and a Lenovo P24h. All of the peripherals are plugged into the monitor, and when I unpack my laptop, I just plug in a single USB-C cable and I am on my way. Multiple monitors can (supposedly) be daisy-chained as well, although I have not tried this.
- vladvasiliu 5y ago
  Not all work requires massive computing power locally. I find the "squid" much less of a hassle than having to sync stuff between two computers. Especially with "newer" computers that can be charged over USB-C. You only plug that one cable, and you've got your screens, keyboard, wired network up and running. I used to the two PCs for a while, but a single computer is so much easier to deal with.
  - nottorp 5y ago
    > I find the "squid" much less of a hassle than having to sync stuff between two computers. Hmm the only thing I need to sync is done via git pull. Mail is imap and docs are online.
- raegis 5y ago
  > I dont understand people who work on a tiny 15” screen when they can have multiple large monitors. You can have it either way. When I'm away from my desktop, I attach a portable external monitor to the laptop via USB-C. It has an identical screen, and works really well. I do prefer desktops, but I have to move around a lot.
RajT88 5y ago
I never really switched off desktop PC's. For work, it makes sense to have a laptop. Portable, in case I need to be on the go. If I need extra computing power (which is rare), I can spin up cloud resources. For my personal stuff - nothing will replace a fast HDD, big CPU, big GPU. Rock solid, quiet (if you have water cooling), powerful. If I need that power on the go (which I sometimes do), I can remote into it. I usually do personal travel with an HP Spectre x360, which is quite light with an OK screen and keyboard. My desktop is kinda old at this point, with an i7 4930K with 64gb DDR3 and a GTX 1060 3gb. I have far fewer issues with my desktop than my work provided laptop, and it's a lot older, and has suffered a lot more abuse.
- giobox 5y ago
  It's amazing how long people have had performant productive systems with Ivy Bridge CPUs and Pascal based GPUs (NVidia 10xx parts)... If it wasn't for many of these older boards not having a TPM for Windows 11 support I'd have probably gotten years more still out of similar systems I own too. My similar Pascal equipped build has to have been one of the best value systems I've ever owned - I've bought two Macs in the same timeframe this box served as my gaming rig/desktop PC. Granted these were MacBooks so not fairest fight, but I've never had any computer last me as long as this PC build has. My 1080ti has been one of best PC part investments I've made; if you ignore lack of Ray Tracing its still able to knock 60fps/1440p in just about anything, a god-send during these chip/GPU shortage times.
KingOfCoders 5y ago
I have for some years.
plastic_bag 5y ago
I tried this and it made me more productive than using a laptop from work. I built a PC during the pandemic for work and gaming. It runs OpenSUSE Tumbleweed and Windows 10 (the latter purely for gaming but I'm looking to ditch it for Proton/Wine on Linux). I realized how much I prefer working on a desktop after years of using a laptop for work. Not gonna lie, I still like the niceties offered by my Macbook Air M1, namely great battery life and very good performance, so I use it primarily when I am out working remotely.
neonate 5y ago
https://web.archive.org/web/20220223132844/http://misc-stuff.terraaeon.com/articles/locked-down-computers.html https://web.archive.org/web/20220223132844/http://misc-stuff...
xdxfw 5y ago
My stack: - omen 15, 32g ram: Windows11 for gaming + wsl2 + vbox hackingtosh + bluestacks. - fully rooted poco x3 pro running lineage
- ug02fast 5y ago
  wsl2 is a must
nikanj 5y ago
My desktop is fully quiet, despite running a parallel build on all cores. My macbook pro pushes jetplane levels of noise if I have the audacity of opening Teams
markstos 5y ago
> I know that new "open" laptops are still available, but most of them--the System76's, the Purisms, etc.--are overpriced in my opinion. He understands the value of these open devices, but isn't willing to pay more for something he values more.
- vinceguidry 5y ago
  I upvoted for the sentiment, but a lot of the extra cost, unfortunately, isn't very well-justified. I have both a 1st gen System76 Galago Pro and a Purism Librem laptop, and I even bought a System76 Thelio desktop machine, to find out that they were making terrible design decisions that sorely impact usability. The Galago Pro should never have been released imo, that 1st gen machine's just that bad, and my Purism laptop doesn't even work anymore due to poor build quality making the power connector break off of the motherboard. Laptops are terrible compromises all-around, so I thought I was out of the woods when I got my Thelio. Sadly no, the gorgeous case's power button connector is the jankiest setup I've ever seen. I ended up taking it apart and now the power button dangles out of the hole it was set in, I wound up building a second machine for my daily driver and use that one as a server. I wish them the best of luck, and I really hope Purism's phone is good enough to replace my iPhone 7, but they're not getting any more of my money for the time being.
  - kube-system 5y ago
    The justification for the cost is lower volume. There are big fixed costs associated with bringing hardware to market. If you sell 100x as many units as your competitors, you can spend more on R&D, under cut your competitors prices, and make more money. Products targeted at niche markets are at a cost disadvantage inherently.
    - joshspankit 5y ago
      Also: in some cases the makers of ‘secure laptops’ are playing an entirely different game to lower costs. From economies of scale (in every stage of the pipeline) to deals with advertisers and parts vendors, bringing a new laptop to market with none of those strings is a much more challenging undertaking than I think many of us (including me) give them credit for.
vinceguidry 5y ago
I weaned myself off of laptops years ago. I still have one, but I hardly ever use it. For mobile purposes I use a Surface Pro with Linux installed. Laptops are terrible from a usability standpoint. It's a rare day when I want to use a machine without some kind of drink on hand. Spill that puppy the wrong way and your day and wallet are ruined. Laptop keyboards are always a compromise, just because you like yours doesn't mean it can't be massively improved. I want my display right in front of my face, craning my neck down caused no end of pain until I stopped using them. Do yourself a huge favor.
GiorgioG 5y ago
For the life of me I can't understand why any software engineer would want an under-powered machine that's optimized for battery life (i.e. a laptop.) I've worked from home and always opted to build my own PC (not that you can't find powerful pre-built desktops.) If you need mobility, get a cheap laptop and remote into your powerful desktop machine.
seltzered_ 5y ago
My concern hasn't been uefi, but general repairability after a personal experience where a removable ssd helped in recovering data (had backups, but had notes written before the next backup), and lack of ergonomic innovation on laptops. It's led me to trying Linux on a raised tablet PC and starting https://www.reddit.com/r/ErgoMobileComputers/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ErgoMobileComputers/ .
mxuribe 5y ago
> ...I am still using laptops with mostly USB 2.0 ports and internal SATA SSD's. That means dealing with very slow backups. I seem to be forever making backups. Eventually, laptops manufactured before 2012 will be too slow to do the things I need to do... This my dilemma as well. I love me some older machines (thinkpad as one example), but the slowness of those older components kills me for running backups. Yeah, i know that there are tools which backup only deltas, etc...but scripting for legacy backups methodology seems so much easier for my brain...i guess either i have to get newer machines, or adapt to leveraging those backup tools that rely on deltas (in essednce sending less over the usb dongles). /old-man-rant-over
stephc_int13 5y ago
I only ever used a laptop once. It was a company issued device, high quality, good brand, powerful enough. I hated it. I only took it home once. The small screen, the cramped keyboard, the noise, painful downward angle when looking at the screen without a support. Everything was a downgrade from my habits of using good old chunky desktop computers. I like comfort, silence, lot of interfaces, large screens, ergonomics. I need a workstation, not a toy I can use in bed. And to be honest, I can't help but look down on young coders using their shiny macs in coffee shops, I think they are delusional if they think they can be 100% productive with a toy computer.
- cpsns 5y ago
  > I think they are delusional if they think they can be 100% productive with a toy computer. I seriously doubt many who are working in a coffee shop are even trying to be "100% productive" or they wouldn't be there in the first place. Ultimately I agree with you, but for most laptops are "good enough". Dock them when at home, use them as intended when out and about.
  - unethical_ban 5y ago
    >I seriously doubt many who are working in a coffee shop are even trying to be "100% productive" or they wouldn't be there in the first place. I go to the coffee shop specifically to be more productive than I am at home. I don't think about my bills, or mopping, or laundry, or the cats trying to get my attention, or the games I want to play on my more powerful home PC. You are incorrect to think that people intend to be sub-optimal by being in a public place without 2x 4k monitors and a clacky keyboard.
coldcode 5y ago
When I retired I returned the work MBP. Now I have a M1 Ultra Mac Studio and I miss nothing about that sad 16GB Intel laptop. The MBP roared like a freight train all the time. Now the loudest sound is the ceiling fan.
Gollapalli 5y ago
>The point is that they are making it harder and harder for us to do what we want with our computers. They are successfully taking away our general-purpose computers and replacing them with little more than Internet appliances. This is the most important point in all of computing. I don't want a thin client, unless it's a thin client into a workstation or server(s) that I control. Fuck the cloud.
CyberRabbi 5y ago
I’ve never left desktop computers and laptops are terrible for your posture.
cpsns 5y ago
I've done this. I have serious issues with computer/internet overuse (I have to avoid the "a" word), if I am able to have a computer in front of me all the time I will. My desktop is confined to a single space in my home unlike a laptop, a space that I don't actually want to spend all my time in. This alone gets me away from it more than I otherwise would be and has been very helpful to me.
stjohnswarts 5y ago
my laptop is only a backup computer/travel computer. I love my big box 6 year old pc that'd I've added to over the years.
geocrasher 5y ago
How about the best of both worlds? I WFH 100% and my home desktop is a W10 PC with a Ryzen 5 1400, 24GB memory, RTX 3050, a modest (too small) SSD that needs an upgrade to a 1TB NVMe, but the real thing that makes it my Go-To for everything is my four 23/24" 1080p monitors, with one of them being portrait mode. Screen space wins. There isn't anything I need to do that this computer can't do. The PSU is several years old. The case is from the Vista era. It's not scoring any points for being snazzy, water cooled, or RGB LED'd. It just works. The laptop? An old T420 that does what I need when I need it, and nothing more. I don't TRY to do my Whole Life on it because it's not good at that. In a pinch, it's enough.
cmrdporcupine 5y ago
Oppressive vendor practices aside, I just don't get the laptop fixation some people have, in general. I find it extremely hard to be productive on a laptop; the form factor is entirely wrong for concentration. Small screen, mushy crappy keyboard with a bad layout, etc. My desktop has a large monitor and a mechanical keyboard and a mouse and without that stuff, and an upright posture and focus, I can't get in the zone. So, yes, I can hook a laptop up to all those things, but then it's just a desktop anyways. I can see the advantages for traveling, but for the last two years I naturally have not done that. ... But the worst thing about a laptop was while I was working from home there was just always the temptation to sluff off to a couch or bed and zone out. I couldn't program in that posture, but I could goof off. Since quitting my $job and turning in my work laptop my coding productivity has gone up. You'll pry my workstation from my cold dead hands, etc. etc.
- laxmin 5y ago
  and, dual/triple/quadruple monitor setups - once you go multi monitor, once can never be happy with a laptop.
- TAForObvReasons 5y ago
  It's not just about traveling outside: working in a different part of the house / apartment is trivial with a laptop. This would be the perfect use case for a desktop paired with an iPad with keyboard, but the limited OS makes this unappealing.
- agumonkey 5y ago
  Well it depends on your mood and period in life, as a fresh grad student, the first time I found a 12" thinkpad I was shocked. The small screen made me focus, the keyboard (x32 days) was slick as one can be. These days my issue with laptop is the thermal constraints that cut off luxurious CPUs. Seeing a ryzen 5 sff pc gives you so much more oomph.. it makes the oversized toolchains invisible, no need to worry about VMs, large codebase recompile etc etc
- kinos 5y ago
  I use a laptop cause I can't sit right for a desktop. I'm currently resting my laptop on my leg. I have my other leg tucked under that leg. The back of my chair is being used as an arm rest.
kstrauser 5y ago
I bought a new Mac Mini a couple of years ago, and set it up with 2 nice 27" UHD monitors, a good keyboard, and an excellent mouse. I love this setup so much. Since it's always plugged in, it's optimized for performance, not portability. There's no issue with docking, as everything's always where I left it. And finally, I have a desk in my home office and that's where I work. When I leave my office at the end of the day, I'm done doing "serious" work. I have an iPad Pro I carry around the house for content consumption and doing lightweight work like blogging (with a keyboard case) or replying to emails. But while I could write software on my iPad, it's just so much more comfortable at the desk in my office that in practice I'm not going to. So far, separating between "work" and "play" modes has been a huge success for me.
- japhyr 5y ago
  The Mac Studio looks like a perfect replacement for my always-docked 2017 MacBook pro. If you were replacing this today, would you stay with the Mac Mini or go with the Studio? There was always such a wide gap between the Mini and the Mac Pro that I have preferred a decently specced MacBook to the Mini. But I think the Studio changes that for me.
  - tomjen3 5y ago
    I have an M1 air, which is the same chip as the mini, and I haven't hid a performance point for coding yet and that is with the air throtting after about 8 minutes on max CPU (something which the mini won't do, because it has a fan). Of course if you do GPU intensive stuff, that might be an issue. Do keep in mind that the single core is not much faster on the studio, there are just more cores. My only regret is only getting 512 GB disk space.
    - kstrauser 5y ago
      Definitely spring for the 1TB since you can't upgrade it later.
  - kstrauser 5y ago
    If I were buying one out of my own wallet, I'd probably get a Mini. It's such a great little computer. If work's picking up the tab, like if it's time for a hardware refresh, I'd definitely get the Studio. It's not that much more than a nice MBP and seems to be a beast.
drums8787 5y ago
When working at home (most days) my Macbook Pro is mostly a terminal to my desktop running VMs on ESXi. Silent, fast, solid. I love that the Mac can run the VMs I need in a pinch when I need to leave the house but it's always whining when doing so.
saralily 5y ago
Sounds like the author wants a Talos II https://www.raptorcs.com/ https://www.raptorcs.com/
- awiesenhofer 5y ago
  "Starting at $5,165.00" for the entry level system: 4 cores, 8gb ram, 128gb SSD, integrated graphics. Thanks but no thanks.
ashtonkem 5y ago
I’ve been saying for years that laptops come with rather severe tradeoffs for features that most users do not need.
bluSCALE4 5y ago
That's why I got my son a desktop. He's not a big fan yet but it has access to my steam, dual boot to ubuntu, and a webcam so he has no excuse to avoid doing "school work" on it.
mitchdoogle 5y ago
I've used laptops occasionally when I had to, but I've never even thought about giving up a desktop computer as my main computer for daily use.
justinlloyd 5y ago
We're a two person household with four or five laptops and a variety of tablets. But we're also a two-person household with a full fledged GPU/CPU compute workstation, a dedicated gaming/VR tower, two (somewhat) upgradeable all-in-one kitchen computers that are getting a bit long in the tooth and of course, the usual clutch of miscellaneous servers. We run Linux, macOS and Windows in a variety of configurations. Many people don't have a need, or a desire, for a dedicated computer, not even a laptop. The world that we as technologists live in is vastly different from the majority of people who are passive consumers of content rather than active producers.
advael 5y ago
I find myself in the weird position of agreeing with the desire for computing power, general purpose computation, software freedom, and ergonomics, and being baffled by the rest of this take. Platform availability: Others have pointed out that UEFI hasn't even been a minor hindrance to the linux ecosystem for several years. But also, the post author's argument against the numerous efforts to make linux-first laptops is "They're overpriced", which is not only barely true, but also nuts considering their other positions. Price-fixing is the classic monopoly play, and if you're not willing to initially pay more, you're not serious about fighting Microsoft, period. Also, the Framework Laptop has gotten a ton of press in tech circles, and exactly solves the problem of laptops not being upgradeable. Yes, the basic consumer market is going the direction the poster claims, but alternatives do exist and supporting them is not that difficult if you care. Ergonomics: SSH provides a perfect way to run your own "cloud" computing solution by having a powerful desktop that you access through a portable laptop (not to mention having a built-in protocol to make a secure tunnel for any service you can imagine). Barrier makes this even more seamless with the ability to ad-hoc treat multiple computers as multiple monitors which still run separated userspaces. These two pieces of software alone give you the best of both worlds, and are simple to configure and available in every linux distro there is. I've repurposed numerous old laptops into workspaces with their own monitors, which I can then use as a dynamic multi-monitor setup with my tower and any laptop I currently use, and I tend to aim for either ridiculously cheap (Like the Pinebook Pro) or ridiculously portable (Ultrathins. I honestly really love having an effectively weightless computer I can put in a backpack I'll be biking with without a second thought about weight, and will totally pay a premium for it) for those. Also, maybe I just have tiny hands, but I don't find laptop form-factors that annoying unless doing very specific tasks that need a real mouse. Even typing on chiclet keyboards with acrylic nails (not something I'm used to having) was a 5-minute adjustment at worst Throwing up your hands and saying "the battle for general computation is already lost!" strikes me as premature doomer nonsense, given how many people care about this and are creating solutions to all these problems. Hell, the solutions to the problems the author mentions aren't even hard to find
pkulak 5y ago
I just bought a Dell Optiplex built in... I think 2015, on Ebay for $120. Gonna upgrade the memory and storage, then see how it goes. If I like it, I might pick up a few more for the kids. Everyone in the house right now has laptops, and they just sit in the same place, always plugged in, all the time.
dustymcp 5y ago
I never left, every laptop i ever tried just feels inferior against my desktop environment, its just not the same in any category..
bitwize 5y ago
I decided to main a Ryzen desktop back in 2018 to replace my aging 2010 ThinkPad. I doubled the RAM to 32 GiB and now I have a workhorse that can chew through compiles at breakneck speed and spin up multiple VMs without taxing the host desktop. Or run a couple Electron apps :) Best part is, I can upgrade the components in the future for additional growth. Note that by going with a desktop you do not avoid UEFI. UEFI with Secure Boot is the standard boot environment for Intel PCs, regardless of form factor. Microsoft is the only root of trust vendors will recognize; you will have to contact the vendors individually and pay out many millions of dollars each to become a root of trust for UEFI PCs. For the time being Microsoft has deigned to require disablement of Secure Boot or installation of user certificates, but that may change. The reality is, your PC only boots Linux (or BSD, etc.) because Microsoft allows it.
rrrodia 5y ago
This might be a weird idea, but what about: a laptop style wireless interface for a desktop computer. Does this exist? wireless display+bt keyboard+ bt touchpad
- ejj28 5y ago
  A more practical and commonly used solution would be to use a cheap laptop to remote into a desktop computer. I've known people who've used chromebooks for this exact purpose.
ineedasername 5y ago
>Thin laptops are thermally throttled due to insufficient airflow Yes, the U-series intel i-X CPU's all do this. I have an old desktop w/ a 4th gen i3, and it performs better in benchmarks than new U-series i5 CPUs. And in practice outside of benchmarks, it feels significantly faster for have tons of tabs open, toggling between a few excel files with thousands of rows, data visualization (mostly Tableau) and gaming. Same with a 10yr old Xeon proc I had in an old desktop workstation at work compared to the 3yr old work laptop. A couple months ago I was due for a laptop upgrade and insisted they give me "anything but a U-series". They dug up a 9th gen H-series and they seemed to think the thing was worthless because it wasn't the latest gen. Meanwhile it had 32GB of RAM and a quatro 2000 GPU, so I jumped at it. I only get about 1.5 hours of batter in high performance mode, but it's fine. I'm not doing heavy loads in meetings so I just swap power profiles. In short, it's extremely likely that any mobile CPU is seriously underpowered compared to a desktop CPU from 6-10 years ago.
- vladvasiliu 5y ago
  Depending on what you do, you may be impressed with zen 3 u cpus. I was in the same boat, with an old 8-core Xeon something from like 2013 (it takes DDR3 RAM, and was one of the first to support PCIE 3). It was so fast, it ran circles around my current work computers (basic enterprise i5 HP). Then I insisted on a zen 3 laptop at the end of last year, and for rust compiles, it's almost twice as fast as the Xeon. It only has a 5650U (6 cores + HT), and a teeny-tiny heat sink. It does get somewhat noisy under load, but it's dead silent most of the time, including in Teams video chats!
  - ineedasername 5y ago
    Good to know-- I'll consider AMD hardware the next time around. I have them in my primary home/gaming laptop, not a low power version though, and greatly prefer it to the 7th gen i7 I had previously. Both were about the same on single core (doesn't seem like there's been a lot of movement on that in recent years?) But the AMD is much better on anything multi core and seems to punch above it's weight class on GPU.
cudgy 5y ago
> I know that new "open" laptops are still available, but most of them--the System76's, the Purisms, etc.--are overpriced in my opinion. The author cares enough about this issue to write this article, but they are unwilling to support companies that are trying to address the issue due to increased cost. Is this really as important of a problem to the author as the author indicates? How will this issue ever change if companies that try to appeal to this niche market are not validated by consumers? Reminds me of how many products are now made in China due to savings even at the expense of the middle class of many nations. People weren’t willing to pay more for products made in their own countries, and now there are critical supply shortages created by the wave of the hand of a leader far away.
MarkusWandel 5y ago
I'm curious. Has there ever been an x86 laptop on which secure boot can't be turned off? The most obnoxious I've encountered took quite a few steps, from an obscure key combination to even get into the setup menu, to a couple of "are you sure?", "enter these digits to confirm" kind of scare prompts, to at least one restart, before it was off. Felt kind of like unlocking a carrier-locked smartphone. Pain in the ass and a bit scary, but ultimately possible, and once it's done, for good. After that a Linux install went just fine. Probably would have even without that, given what I read about trusted boot shims and so on. Mind you, all my (older) laptops still support proper suspend, you know, where the LED will happily blink for a couple of days on battery and you still have enough to use the computer.
thewebcount 5y ago
I don't get this part: > General-purpose computers allow us to own our music and videos--not just watch them until Netflix's contract for our favorite Star Wars movie expires or Apple decides to somehow prevent us from accessing our favorite song in its inventory. You can still buy music and videos to own. Music from iTunes and other download services has been DRM-free for decades. Plus there's always CDs. I bought one from Amazon recently, believe it or not! You can buy DVDs/BluRays for movies and TV shows. This has nothing to do with internet appliances or walled gardens, or whatever else this article is about.
- timmahoney 5y ago
  I’ve been buying mp3 albums from Amazon recently, which has been great because I can load them into my local MPD daemon for playback. I have a pandora account, which admittedly is how I discovered all this music in the first place, but MPD takes up next to no resources, so I end up using that most of the time!
- f1refly 5y ago
  Depending on where you live ripping user hostile restricted optical disks is illegal, even the possession of tools that can free you from the digital restrictions may be illegal, making you dependent on your bluray player supporting the disk you bought and leaving you behind should you want to watch the content anywhere besides your living room. In addition, there are now lots of movies and series that are only available if you agree to some streaming service's TOS without the option to own anything at all.
egypturnash 5y ago
This post, and the many people here celebrating their preference of desktops and wondering why anyone would ever use a laptop, spurred me to get under my desk and disconnect everything from the USBC breakout box so I could wrap some electrical tape around its fraying cable. Thanks, I've been putting that off for months now. FWIW the great thing about laptops for me is that I can plug it into my desk, with a big monitor, when I'm at home, then unplug it (just one plug now, used to be all of four, which takes about 60 seconds once you've figured out a way to make sure the business ends of the power/usb/monitor/audio cables never stray too far from where the lappy lives) and go sit out at a cafe. Or in a park. I really don't miss having to spend all my work hours in the home office.
javier_e06 5y ago
My laptop belongs to the suits. My pc (ASRock + GTX + Ryzen + Corsair) belongs to me. Sure I have a chromebook to toss around the living room to browse the web, but me owning a laptop? Ha!
guidoism 5y ago
I alternate between this. I had a Mac mini as my main computer but decided on a MacBook Air as my next computer because: 1. Every now and then it got disconnected from electricity because of my stupidity or the electricity going out. Having a built-in UPS is very nice. 2. Laptop has no fan. I much prefer to have my computer slow down than have to hear noise. Mac desktops for now don’t go for this trade off. 3. Every now and then it’s nice to be able to bring my main computer to a different place. I leave behind my monitor and mouse and take my keyboard and laptop and it’s not too bad for those odd occasions.
sleepybrett 5y ago
I've considered it due to remote work. Simply because I'm sitting here with a company laptop that is plugged into a docking station literally 100% of the time. Apple's battery management functions (pausing charging to not cook batteries) has bitten me on the ass a number of times it doesn't seem to realize that i'm working the cpu pretty hard (intel) and it drains the pittance of a battery i have left an d shuts down without bothering to start using wall power.
- pjungwir 5y ago
  I wonder if all the recent work-from-home has changed anything? My reaction to the headline was, "Some of us never left." But then I've worked from home for seventeen years. If I drove to an office every day, I might prefer to own just a laptop too. But working from home with an overpowered desktop is great! And if I want to work from the back porch I use the old Macbook Air, ssh in, and attach to my tmux sessions.
sohrob 5y ago
Author states "I know that new 'open' laptops are still available, but most of them--the System76's, the Purisms, etc.--are overpriced in my opinion." These companies are not manufacturing in China. They assemble their machines here in the U.S. and they don't have the advantage of economies of scale like other much larger firms.
tomc1985 5y ago
Many of you reading this are directly involved in this awful future, and if you are one of these folks you should be deeply ashamed of yourself.
kilohotel 5y ago
Calling the 1980s the "Golden Age" of computing is a big stretch lmao
rejectfinite 5y ago
I never left. I mean work gives me a laptop. But my desktop is from 2014. i7, 32GB RAM, I updated the GPU to a 1070ti w 3x 1440p monitors. And better keyboard and mouse, mechanical keyboard and mx master 3 mouse. Why use a laptop? Show me a laptop from 2014 that is still good.
SergeAx 5y ago
I am a software engineer and engineering manager and there's no way I can be productive on a laptop. Even when I have to use a laptop due to requirement by my job, I am using a large monitor as a USB-C dock station, with real keyboard and mouse connected. Even on the go I have a Bluetooth mouse and HDMI cable with me to connect hotel's TV as a large monitor.
sockaddr 5y ago
I also haven't owned a desktop in about 15 years but recently built one to replace my laptop. I specifically chose parts that had the most upgradability potential over time and while I'm at the beginning of this journey I'm pretty happy with my choice. I'm sort of thinking about only using a laptop as a commodity dumb terminal at this point. Crucially it gives me an exist to tinker again and that's why I got into computers in the first place.
Epiphany21 5y ago
After getting a decent workstation I can never go back to a laptop only. IMO laptops border on luxury toys. I use mine almost exclusively for checking emails and programming in places I just can't lug a desktop into, like the outdoors or an internet cafe.
danamit 5y ago
ITT: people swearing its impossible to use a laptop because some marginal differences, and because a mechanical keyboard 10x your productivity. I use both a laptop and a desktop, but I mainly work on my laptop, because I can have my work there with me, and I can work from everywhere, I don't feel like it? I go to a cafe and work from there. I have to visit my sister today and I wasn't planning to? ohh nice, I am taking my laptop with me. People act like programming is data entry, and that's it all about actions per minute. "My button clicking speed lineary correlate with my code output", doesn't work like that.
windex 5y ago
I went the Intel NUC8 way a couple of months ago after wanting larger 4k displays and faster drives. Pretty good value for money. I dont game etc, so I just needed the basics.
datavirtue 5y ago
MDI til I die. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple-document_interface https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple-document_interface
lifeplusplus 5y ago
I'm more productive at desktop but I just can't sit in one place for more than 2 hours in span of 10 hours so a laptop allows me to move to sofa, bed and other places... Standing, sitting, laying, and horse posture when your knees are on ground but laptop on bed. Also reason I always abhorred office life. 8 hours in a chair made me want to punch a person next to me

207 points by ivanvas 5y ago

Also thinking the same, looking for a monitor for my Surface Laptop 3 (Running Linux) and realising the lack of HDMI port really makes this a challenge USB C for a monitor lacks options currently, so am looking at dongle hell.

bufferoverflow 5y ago
It's not hell. One type C to HDMI dongle. I use one.
- vladvasiliu 5y ago
  Even better: there are type-c to HDMI cables, no dongle at all.
- maxbaines 5y ago
  I should have been clearer, it would be really nice to just have one single USB C lead from my laptop to a monitor for video and PD. Overall I am happy with USB C. Having a laptop with many cable's connected for me defeats the object hence me looking at desktops.
  - dont__panic 5y ago
    Sounds like a prime use case for a dock or one of those multiport dongles. What's holding you back?
    - maxbaines 5y ago
      As above I am trying to avoid multiple cable's in the laptop, be ideal to have just one USB C for HDMI and PD, A laptop with a load of cables in it for me defeats the object, at that point I may as well use a Desktop.
      - tomjen3 5y ago
        I Displayport and power over a single USB-C with my Dell U2720Q. I would recommend a longer cable than the one provided if you want your computer to connect to a usb-c on side that doesn't face the monitor.
      - dont__panic 5y ago
        Interesting. I use a single TB3 cable connected to my Caldigit TS3+ to connect: - dual 4k60hz monitors - keyboard - mouse - webcam - microphone - ethernet - ... other miscellaneous things I'm forgetting One cable, dock setup. I guess I don't understand how a dock would force you to use multiple cables, since that's what they're supposed to help prevent?
vladvasiliu 5y ago
Something that's worked well for me is using "docks" with my laptops. I'm typing this over a cheap-ish (80€) Chinese thing from Amazon [0], which gives me power, a bunch of USB 3 A ports, one C, gigabit network, HDMI and DisplayPort, and audio in/out (didn't try it). The video is pass-through, as opposed to a DisplayLink chip. One thing to be aware of, is it requires two USB-C connectors. I've never tried only using one, since the provided cable has a dual-connector. It also looks quite nice, doesn't feel cheap at all. MS, Dell, HP, Lenovo all sell similar contraptions, but they're much more expensive. At work I have a HP G5, which works well, and uses a single USB-C port. You can also find cheaper alternatives that only do HDMI. --- [0] https://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/B09MTTZ36K/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8 https://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/B09MTTZ36K/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_...
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- maxbaines 5y ago
  Interesting for some reason did not consider a dock, that one looks great but the Surface Laptop only has one USB C port. Will take a look at the MS version though thanks.
  - maxbaines 5y ago
    Eek £250 for the MS one https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/d/surface-dock-2/8qd908364sg2 https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/d/surface-dock-2/8qd908364sg...
    - vladvasiliu 5y ago
      There are also products like these: https://www.amazon.fr/Concentrateur-Anker-adaptateur-PowerExpand-Pixelbook/dp/B087QZVQJX https://www.amazon.fr/Concentrateur-Anker-adaptateur-PowerEx... Don't know what they're worth, though.
      - maxbaines 5y ago

enraged_camel 5y ago

My primary computing device is a desktop PC. I have four monitors hooked up to it (two horizontal, two vertical). The primary monitor is for browsing. The secondary horizontal monitor is for coding. The two vertical ones are for things like reading logs/documentation, and for various chat apps (Slack/Discord/WhatsApp/Signal - yes I use all). I started a new job recently and they got me a top of the line Macbook Pro. For the first two weeks, my productivity was in the gutter. Not because I'm not used to MacOS, but because going from four 27" screens to a single 15" screen was devastating. Things improved significantly once I bought an ultrawide, but I'm still having to do a significant amount of desktop-switching (using the three-finger swipe) and it's just not good. I know the MBP supports more monitors but I'm out of desk space!

gowld 5y ago
How often do you visit your chiropracter?
- rietta 5y ago
  Desktop is actually better for that. At least getting the laptop up to eye height with good posture. My chiropractor says they see more younger patients (30s and 40s) with degenerative disk disease in the neck related to laptop and smart phone use.

q_andrew 5y ago

Large home desktop, cheap replaceable linux laptop is the perfect combo. I've saved so much money over the years by swapping out desktop parts and using a beat-up thinkpad for off-location work. Every once in a while I'm missing a newer display port, but overall it's a great system.

nicolaslem 5y ago
How do you keep the laptop in sync with the desktop?
- 5e92cb50239222b 5y ago
  I just rsync the root partition from time to time, ignoring /efi and /etc/fstab. Although this (obviously) only works in one direction, but that's enough for my use case.
- q_andrew 5y ago
  I don't, but the things that I do are modular enough that I can make parts separately and plug them in when I come back.
- WhatIsDukkha 5y ago
  Not OP but - wireguard to git host of choice git-annex is an awesome thing and much more useable then any of the normal sync services across the board (once you understand what it can do). ansible to make all the hosts consistent configuration wise
- hddherman 5y ago
  Syncthing has worked fairly well for this. It has some caveats, and I don't recommend syncing anything other than some specific directories in your home folder to avoid conflicts with syncing config and cache folders. What I synced: ~/files (contains all my projects, cat pictures etc.) ~/ide (contains just the IDE installation and other apps) ~/.ssh
  - smoldesu 5y ago

buro9 5y ago

I have done this. During the pandemic I switched jobs and got a new MacBook Pro... it failed, then it failed again, and again. I sent it back a few times and each turn-around took a couple of weeks. Whilst that happened I still had to do some work and fell back on my gaming PC. It wasn't a good PC, just an entry level gaming PC. Yet I found it out-performed my MBP for a load of things I cared about: Running Google Meet without fans spinning to full speed, reactivating a Google Doc tab almost instantly rather than it appearing to be blank for 30 seconds. Things like that. The MBP finally got repaired, but I've owned that for barely 2 years now (it was new at the time) and it's been out of action about 10% of the time. In the meantime my desktop has been rock solid and reliable. Recently I figured I'd do something different... sell the entry level gaming machine and build a desktop with work in mind. The result has been really great, with a silent and powerful desktop based on components I like and that work together. It runs Linux, and a surprise to me I'm also running Windows. Everything just works, and it all works well and the computer is fantastic at every task I throw at it. This includes local dev, compiling things, lots of meetings, webinar editing, and some occasional gaming post-work. I still have the MBP... it's not a primary work device, my experience with Apple means I don't trust the machine at all, but for a travel device it feels fine and it's that which gave me confidence to go all-in on a desktop.

bitwize 5y ago
The M1 MBP is a new class of machine. Rock solid, faster than just about any other laptop, insane battery life, immune to the thermal issues that plagued Intel MBPs. It could probably easily replace that desktop you built with power to spare.
- MathCodeLove 5y ago
  I can say the same about the M1 Mac Mini and its much cheaper
  - cpach 5y ago
    Indeed. AFAICT it’s a damn fine computer.

upofadown 5y ago

UEFI is OK if the user can disable it. It is clearly a restraint of trade issue. We probably just need to make a law.

pSYoniK 5y ago

Whenever I reach the point of thinking about getting a laptop to replace my desktop I keep being reminded that my desktop has parts that are at this stage around 9 years old. I am reminded that it still does everything I need, it still connects to anything I want, any way I want and it still runs my os(es) of choice without batting an eye. And if a part fails? The used market provides! I am so sad to see things go down this path and it is so frustrating to see common sense beaten to death by some product manager, marketing vp or CEO saying that thin, light and unrepairable is the future...

secondcoming 5y ago
My desktop is a 4790k, so maybe not far off the age of your system. I had to buy a laptop due to covid and, to be fair, things have progressed on the laptop front so much that it outperforms my desktop. I now only use the desktop for gaming as I didn't bother getting a discrete GPU on the laptop. The laptop is high-spec and costly (Dell Precision 7750), so much so that I doubt my employer would have bought it for me. So costly, in fact, that it makes no financial sense to upgrade my desktop.
lostmsu 5y ago
I am still using my 6yo Dell Inspiron I got for $500 now and then.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- ashtonkem 5y ago
  I ran my second hand Dell computer from work for about half a decade, it cost $75 when I bought it from work after a merger. The CPU finally called it quits, and I parted it out for a profit.

rhn_mk1 5y ago

I was considering what to switch to from my elderly ThinkPad. Imagine my surprise when I discovered that newer ThinkPads go as far in the direction of less user control that they stopped providing BIOS revisions that don't contain openly advertised "anti-theft" spyware. https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/Other-Linux-Discussions/Replacing-W-BIOS-with-P-BIOS-Non-Absolute-Persistence-Module/td-p/4611154 https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/Other-Linux-Discussions/Replaci... I never want to enable it, and I don't want to live in the danger of enabling it by accident, either. If it reported to infrastructure that I own, I'd be talking different.

_Algernon_ 5y ago

A website in 2022 that doesn't use HTTPS? It takes like 5 minutes to install certbot...

hedora 5y ago
... and a lifetime to monitor and administer it.
- kstrauser 5y ago
  Time I've spend monitoring and administering certbot over the last few years: 0.
- genghizkhan 5y ago
  Certbot (and other acme clients such as acme.sh) are practically set and forget. I’ve never once had to touch those configs again once they were made ~4 years ago.
  - justsomehnguy 5y ago
    Certbot is a snap application nowadays. I was pretty screwed up when I decided to install it on CentOS system without SELinux, which snap requires. But I would agree here, even when I had the problems with LE (botched cron config) it only required me to 'administer' it 4 times a year. And when I fixed cron config I don't need to do even that.
    - genghizkhan 5y ago
      I’ve personally switched to using acme.sh over certbot. Much easier to setup (since it’s just a bash script) and supports practically every DNS API.

mbustamanter 5y ago

Previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24889488 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24889488

StillBored 5y ago

I think this guy is pretty confused about UEFI, which is little more than a boot abstraction. It doesn't lock anyone out, although secure boot can be used to do so, but so can any other firmware (phones anyone?). So at this point, the fact that UEFI secure boot standardizes how users can enroll their own keys/etc make it probably the _best_ of the current choices. The part he seems to be confused about are the PEP's required for modern standby, because instead of extending the UEFI/ACPI specification to cover those corner cases (or wedging them into the existing notification mechanisms) they allow platform providers to continue to create machine specific power management blobs that aren't portable between OS's. The older ACPI power methods, were of course opaque as well, but the API was standard enough that non Microsoft OS's weren't at a disadvantage. https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/device-experiences/platform-design-for-modern-standby https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/dev...

jokethrowaway 5y ago
He was probably referring to secure boot when talking about UEFI, which effectively prevents you from installing linux (unless you know exploits or you get the unlock code from the manufacturer). That said UEFI sucks and it inflicts unnecessary pain every time I setup a new computer.
- spicybright 5y ago
  Can you really not turn off UEFI in the BIOS settings? I don't think I've ever used a computer that didn't have an option to unlock it, as far as I know.
  - rstat1 5y ago
    No you cannot "turn off UEFI". You can make your UEFI-enabled board boot in a BIOS compatibility mode for some things. But that isn't turning it off.
  - akvadrako 5y ago
    Your terminology is really confused. UEFI is the firmware that boots the computer and is a replacement for a BIOS. There are no "BIOS settings" on modern computers.

headcanon 5y ago

Sounds like the author's concern is that as more devices move towards becoming locked-down consumer appliances in the future that they will eventually lose control, making the DIY-desktop the only "safe" choice. I agree with the premise in the large, but the success of the Framework laptop tells me the market will always support a reasonably open, linux-friendly device. Also, I don't know a ton about UEFI but I remember the anxiety around it, has that materialized at all? I haven't had a problem installing linux on recent model Lenovo and Dell laptops which I believe had UEFI, so is it really a problem?

zekica 5y ago
Yes it has materialized somewhat. The UEFI and Secure Boot are not the issue here - neither is uBoot/fastboot on phones. The issue is who holds the keys - if it is the owner of the device, then great! But most laptops and phones don't allow you to set your own keys, just Microsoft's or OEM's, and that is what the issue is. Linux distributions work around this by either explicitly requiring disabling Secure Boot / Unlocking the bootloader, or having Microsoft sign a shim that they can use and using that allow the user to add additional trusted keys.
jsmith45 5y ago
I've not seen much issue from UEFI beyond mobo manufacturers occasionally releasing really buggy firmware. UEFI also permits rather advanced features. For example, if a mobo manufacvtorer wanted to, they could theoretically code in support for using a USB monitor for the bootup display, enabling firmware access without any video adapter on board at all. One can quite easily add new boot-loaders to the EFI system partition, and add the entries to NVRAM, making it possible to add add custom pre-boot diagnostics programs, or a small direct-boot emergency recovery kernel, or other fancy features.

dmortin 5y ago

I like that if I'm on the move I can take my laptop and I have my complete work environment with me, I can continue my work wherever I'am, etc. How one could replicate this with a desktop + laptop combo? Setting up a work environment which syncs between the two constantly?

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
JoeAltmaier 5y ago
How can you drag three monitors with you whereever you go? Just the full-sized keyboard would be a drag. I have three desktops. Projects are on SSD VMs that I carry, or in the cloud. So no issues about syncing.
justsomehnguy 5y ago
And what would you do if you lose your laptop? With that in mind (except probably a very heavy data) you already need a way to sync your environment... to something, depends on what are you doing. And if you can sync it for a fast recovery then, probably, you can make it sync between N+1 computers.
ImprobableTruth 5y ago
If your work environment is reproducible this shouldn't be an issue. Nix works well for me personally. Another boon is that if your system goes kaput for whatever reason, you've already done the legwork to immediately get up and running again.
sto_hristo 5y ago
Remote to your desktop from your laptop and never worry about losing/breaking the laptop. I've spent little over a year on a job where i remote desktop'd to office computer from home in a WFH scenario. Was perfectly doable and stable. In this way you won't need the laptop at all and can use a nice tablet. I'm thinking of going this way, but not quite there yet.
- 5y ago

richardfey 5y ago

What's the purpose of using 2012 hardware to avoid UEFI? All UEFI-capable hardware I have used had options to disable secure boot from the BIOS or would boot signed Linux kernels anyways.

maliker 5y ago

I remote into a desktop wired into my home cable modem and basically use my macbook as a thin client a lot of the time. Modern remote desktop software is crazy good. Using parsec.app even from hotels it's almost like I'm sitting at the machine.

fabian2k 5y ago

Running at full load without noise is something that is easy to achieve on a desktop if you want it, and almost impossible on notebooks with any kind of comparable processing power. The coolers and fans you can put into a desktop are just so much larger and quieter than anything that can fit into a notebook. If you care about fan noise and regularly put high load on your computer, a desktop provides much better options here. But I was also surprised just how much processing power you can put into a modern notebook, my Ryzen 8 core CPU in my notebook is not that much slower than the one in my desktop (which is a bit older than the notebook). But the desktop is silent at 100% CPU load, the notebook isn't. For me the biggest issue though is monitors, I like to have two large screens. A single screen always feels somewhat limiting to me.

bachmeier 5y ago

It's not the topic of the article, but I will never understand how anyone can do work like programming and data analysis, or even write reports that pull together information, without a desktop computer.

genericone 5y ago
Lenovo dock(no squid), and 2 vertical 27" 2k monitors, of course.
tomjen3 5y ago
Same way you would with a desktop: external screen, pointer and keyboard.
kayodelycaon 5y ago
When I’m not using a docking station to turn my laptop into a desktop, I tab between windows, use exposé, and have multiple virtual desktops. It’s fairly chaotic but my spatial memory handles it pretty well.

tekchip 5y ago

I've always maintained separate desktop and laptop. No laptop has ever run as well as a properly built desktop. The bottom line is physics. Never will hardware crammed into a tiny case, a laptop sized case, perform as well as desktop components in even a slightly larger case. Even less so than components in a real mid tower allowed to be effectively cooled and run wide open. It's just the physics of it.

hurflmurfl 5y ago
The bottom line, in my opinion, is whether you can fit the computing power you need into a certain size and budget. If you only browse reddit, you can. If you want to play new AAA games at 4k@120Hz, probably not. If it fits, and you can take the typically higher price, then going for the theoretically "more optimal/efficient" would scratch the "optimizer itch", but is arguably of no importance. Just like getting a nice $200 chef knife gets you a nice blade that cuts better and is more maintainable than the one you can get for $5, but if you only cut tofu, all those benefits are pretty abstract.

rhplus 5y ago

What I like about desktop computers in a WFH role is that they are tied to a physical space. The desktop is where I do my work and once I shut the door for the day, I’m done. No temptation to sit on the couch in the evening catching up on emails and reviews. I have to physically move to my desk to be in work mode. That separation is very valuable for a long term WFH gig.

llaolleh 5y ago
Word. But now I have a negative emotions in that workspace because I don't enjoy my day job :/.
- sokoloff 5y ago
  Better to have those negative emotions confined to that workplace than to that workplace, your couch, your bed, the dining room table, and the kitchen counter.
  - drstewart 5y ago
    By that logic, even better to have those outside the home and in a physically dedicated workspace owned by your company. Suddenly, I feel like there will be some mental gymnastics to justify why WFH is okay but WFlaptop isn't.
    - sokoloff 5y ago
      Prior to pandemic, that is how I felt. (I expected to hate WFH; it turns out I love it, but I did enjoy the forced break and time for podcasts that the commute provided.)
    - PyWoody 5y ago
      I'm in the WFH-and-hate-my-job group but I would never go back to the office. I would rather shut a door and ignore my office than have to go back to commuting to a job I hate. My day ends in seven minutes. In eight minutes, I'll be outside enjoying my yard.

nottorp 5y ago

I thought it was going to be about usability not user freedoms. I dont understand people who work on a tiny 15” screen when they can have multiple large monitors. Yes, you can use externals with your laptop but then you need to invest in a squid (commonly called dock?) that will link your stuff to the laptop. And disconnect/reconnect your stuff when you go away. Also let’s not forget the full size keyboard. I suppose that’s why no code coding initiatives come out once in a while, those people can’t stand typing on their laptop :) My solution is one serious desktop with everything and one mid range laptop that I can work on if needed, but avoid like the plague.

julianlam 5y ago
Depending on the monitor/laptop combination and their support for USB-C that's not too much of a hassle. For reference, I am using an XPS 13 and a Lenovo P24h. All of the peripherals are plugged into the monitor, and when I unpack my laptop, I just plug in a single USB-C cable and I am on my way. Multiple monitors can (supposedly) be daisy-chained as well, although I have not tried this.
vladvasiliu 5y ago
Not all work requires massive computing power locally. I find the "squid" much less of a hassle than having to sync stuff between two computers. Especially with "newer" computers that can be charged over USB-C. You only plug that one cable, and you've got your screens, keyboard, wired network up and running. I used to the two PCs for a while, but a single computer is so much easier to deal with.
- nottorp 5y ago
  > I find the "squid" much less of a hassle than having to sync stuff between two computers. Hmm the only thing I need to sync is done via git pull. Mail is imap and docs are online.
raegis 5y ago
> I dont understand people who work on a tiny 15” screen when they can have multiple large monitors. You can have it either way. When I'm away from my desktop, I attach a portable external monitor to the laptop via USB-C. It has an identical screen, and works really well. I do prefer desktops, but I have to move around a lot.

RajT88 5y ago

I never really switched off desktop PC's. For work, it makes sense to have a laptop. Portable, in case I need to be on the go. If I need extra computing power (which is rare), I can spin up cloud resources. For my personal stuff - nothing will replace a fast HDD, big CPU, big GPU. Rock solid, quiet (if you have water cooling), powerful. If I need that power on the go (which I sometimes do), I can remote into it. I usually do personal travel with an HP Spectre x360, which is quite light with an OK screen and keyboard. My desktop is kinda old at this point, with an i7 4930K with 64gb DDR3 and a GTX 1060 3gb. I have far fewer issues with my desktop than my work provided laptop, and it's a lot older, and has suffered a lot more abuse.

giobox 5y ago
It's amazing how long people have had performant productive systems with Ivy Bridge CPUs and Pascal based GPUs (NVidia 10xx parts)... If it wasn't for many of these older boards not having a TPM for Windows 11 support I'd have probably gotten years more still out of similar systems I own too. My similar Pascal equipped build has to have been one of the best value systems I've ever owned - I've bought two Macs in the same timeframe this box served as my gaming rig/desktop PC. Granted these were MacBooks so not fairest fight, but I've never had any computer last me as long as this PC build has. My 1080ti has been one of best PC part investments I've made; if you ignore lack of Ray Tracing its still able to knock 60fps/1440p in just about anything, a god-send during these chip/GPU shortage times.

KingOfCoders 5y ago

I have for some years.

plastic_bag 5y ago

I tried this and it made me more productive than using a laptop from work. I built a PC during the pandemic for work and gaming. It runs OpenSUSE Tumbleweed and Windows 10 (the latter purely for gaming but I'm looking to ditch it for Proton/Wine on Linux). I realized how much I prefer working on a desktop after years of using a laptop for work. Not gonna lie, I still like the niceties offered by my Macbook Air M1, namely great battery life and very good performance, so I use it primarily when I am out working remotely.

neonate 5y ago

https://web.archive.org/web/20220223132844/http://misc-stuff.terraaeon.com/articles/locked-down-computers.html https://web.archive.org/web/20220223132844/http://misc-stuff...

xdxfw 5y ago

My stack: - omen 15, 32g ram: Windows11 for gaming + wsl2 + vbox hackingtosh + bluestacks. - fully rooted poco x3 pro running lineage

ug02fast 5y ago
wsl2 is a must

nikanj 5y ago

My desktop is fully quiet, despite running a parallel build on all cores. My macbook pro pushes jetplane levels of noise if I have the audacity of opening Teams

markstos 5y ago

> I know that new "open" laptops are still available, but most of them--the System76's, the Purisms, etc.--are overpriced in my opinion. He understands the value of these open devices, but isn't willing to pay more for something he values more.

vinceguidry 5y ago
I upvoted for the sentiment, but a lot of the extra cost, unfortunately, isn't very well-justified. I have both a 1st gen System76 Galago Pro and a Purism Librem laptop, and I even bought a System76 Thelio desktop machine, to find out that they were making terrible design decisions that sorely impact usability. The Galago Pro should never have been released imo, that 1st gen machine's just that bad, and my Purism laptop doesn't even work anymore due to poor build quality making the power connector break off of the motherboard. Laptops are terrible compromises all-around, so I thought I was out of the woods when I got my Thelio. Sadly no, the gorgeous case's power button connector is the jankiest setup I've ever seen. I ended up taking it apart and now the power button dangles out of the hole it was set in, I wound up building a second machine for my daily driver and use that one as a server. I wish them the best of luck, and I really hope Purism's phone is good enough to replace my iPhone 7, but they're not getting any more of my money for the time being.
- kube-system 5y ago
  The justification for the cost is lower volume. There are big fixed costs associated with bringing hardware to market. If you sell 100x as many units as your competitors, you can spend more on R&D, under cut your competitors prices, and make more money. Products targeted at niche markets are at a cost disadvantage inherently.
  - joshspankit 5y ago
    Also: in some cases the makers of ‘secure laptops’ are playing an entirely different game to lower costs. From economies of scale (in every stage of the pipeline) to deals with advertisers and parts vendors, bringing a new laptop to market with none of those strings is a much more challenging undertaking than I think many of us (including me) give them credit for.

vinceguidry 5y ago

I weaned myself off of laptops years ago. I still have one, but I hardly ever use it. For mobile purposes I use a Surface Pro with Linux installed. Laptops are terrible from a usability standpoint. It's a rare day when I want to use a machine without some kind of drink on hand. Spill that puppy the wrong way and your day and wallet are ruined. Laptop keyboards are always a compromise, just because you like yours doesn't mean it can't be massively improved. I want my display right in front of my face, craning my neck down caused no end of pain until I stopped using them. Do yourself a huge favor.

GiorgioG 5y ago

For the life of me I can't understand why any software engineer would want an under-powered machine that's optimized for battery life (i.e. a laptop.) I've worked from home and always opted to build my own PC (not that you can't find powerful pre-built desktops.) If you need mobility, get a cheap laptop and remote into your powerful desktop machine.

seltzered_ 5y ago

My concern hasn't been uefi, but general repairability after a personal experience where a removable ssd helped in recovering data (had backups, but had notes written before the next backup), and lack of ergonomic innovation on laptops. It's led me to trying Linux on a raised tablet PC and starting https://www.reddit.com/r/ErgoMobileComputers/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ErgoMobileComputers/ .

mxuribe 5y ago

> ...I am still using laptops with mostly USB 2.0 ports and internal SATA SSD's. That means dealing with very slow backups. I seem to be forever making backups. Eventually, laptops manufactured before 2012 will be too slow to do the things I need to do... This my dilemma as well. I love me some older machines (thinkpad as one example), but the slowness of those older components kills me for running backups. Yeah, i know that there are tools which backup only deltas, etc...but scripting for legacy backups methodology seems so much easier for my brain...i guess either i have to get newer machines, or adapt to leveraging those backup tools that rely on deltas (in essednce sending less over the usb dongles). /old-man-rant-over

stephc_int13 5y ago

I only ever used a laptop once. It was a company issued device, high quality, good brand, powerful enough. I hated it. I only took it home once. The small screen, the cramped keyboard, the noise, painful downward angle when looking at the screen without a support. Everything was a downgrade from my habits of using good old chunky desktop computers. I like comfort, silence, lot of interfaces, large screens, ergonomics. I need a workstation, not a toy I can use in bed. And to be honest, I can't help but look down on young coders using their shiny macs in coffee shops, I think they are delusional if they think they can be 100% productive with a toy computer.

cpsns 5y ago
> I think they are delusional if they think they can be 100% productive with a toy computer. I seriously doubt many who are working in a coffee shop are even trying to be "100% productive" or they wouldn't be there in the first place. Ultimately I agree with you, but for most laptops are "good enough". Dock them when at home, use them as intended when out and about.
- unethical_ban 5y ago
  >I seriously doubt many who are working in a coffee shop are even trying to be "100% productive" or they wouldn't be there in the first place. I go to the coffee shop specifically to be more productive than I am at home. I don't think about my bills, or mopping, or laundry, or the cats trying to get my attention, or the games I want to play on my more powerful home PC. You are incorrect to think that people intend to be sub-optimal by being in a public place without 2x 4k monitors and a clacky keyboard.

coldcode 5y ago

When I retired I returned the work MBP. Now I have a M1 Ultra Mac Studio and I miss nothing about that sad 16GB Intel laptop. The MBP roared like a freight train all the time. Now the loudest sound is the ceiling fan.

Gollapalli 5y ago

>The point is that they are making it harder and harder for us to do what we want with our computers. They are successfully taking away our general-purpose computers and replacing them with little more than Internet appliances. This is the most important point in all of computing. I don't want a thin client, unless it's a thin client into a workstation or server(s) that I control. Fuck the cloud.

CyberRabbi 5y ago

I’ve never left desktop computers and laptops are terrible for your posture.

cpsns 5y ago

I've done this. I have serious issues with computer/internet overuse (I have to avoid the "a" word), if I am able to have a computer in front of me all the time I will. My desktop is confined to a single space in my home unlike a laptop, a space that I don't actually want to spend all my time in. This alone gets me away from it more than I otherwise would be and has been very helpful to me.

stjohnswarts 5y ago

my laptop is only a backup computer/travel computer. I love my big box 6 year old pc that'd I've added to over the years.

geocrasher 5y ago

How about the best of both worlds? I WFH 100% and my home desktop is a W10 PC with a Ryzen 5 1400, 24GB memory, RTX 3050, a modest (too small) SSD that needs an upgrade to a 1TB NVMe, but the real thing that makes it my Go-To for everything is my four 23/24" 1080p monitors, with one of them being portrait mode. Screen space wins. There isn't anything I need to do that this computer can't do. The PSU is several years old. The case is from the Vista era. It's not scoring any points for being snazzy, water cooled, or RGB LED'd. It just works. The laptop? An old T420 that does what I need when I need it, and nothing more. I don't TRY to do my Whole Life on it because it's not good at that. In a pinch, it's enough.

cmrdporcupine 5y ago

Oppressive vendor practices aside, I just don't get the laptop fixation some people have, in general. I find it extremely hard to be productive on a laptop; the form factor is entirely wrong for concentration. Small screen, mushy crappy keyboard with a bad layout, etc. My desktop has a large monitor and a mechanical keyboard and a mouse and without that stuff, and an upright posture and focus, I can't get in the zone. So, yes, I can hook a laptop up to all those things, but then it's just a desktop anyways. I can see the advantages for traveling, but for the last two years I naturally have not done that. ... But the worst thing about a laptop was while I was working from home there was just always the temptation to sluff off to a couch or bed and zone out. I couldn't program in that posture, but I could goof off. Since quitting my $job and turning in my work laptop my coding productivity has gone up. You'll pry my workstation from my cold dead hands, etc. etc.

laxmin 5y ago
and, dual/triple/quadruple monitor setups - once you go multi monitor, once can never be happy with a laptop.
TAForObvReasons 5y ago
It's not just about traveling outside: working in a different part of the house / apartment is trivial with a laptop. This would be the perfect use case for a desktop paired with an iPad with keyboard, but the limited OS makes this unappealing.
agumonkey 5y ago
Well it depends on your mood and period in life, as a fresh grad student, the first time I found a 12" thinkpad I was shocked. The small screen made me focus, the keyboard (x32 days) was slick as one can be. These days my issue with laptop is the thermal constraints that cut off luxurious CPUs. Seeing a ryzen 5 sff pc gives you so much more oomph.. it makes the oversized toolchains invisible, no need to worry about VMs, large codebase recompile etc etc
kinos 5y ago
I use a laptop cause I can't sit right for a desktop. I'm currently resting my laptop on my leg. I have my other leg tucked under that leg. The back of my chair is being used as an arm rest.

kstrauser 5y ago

I bought a new Mac Mini a couple of years ago, and set it up with 2 nice 27" UHD monitors, a good keyboard, and an excellent mouse. I love this setup so much. Since it's always plugged in, it's optimized for performance, not portability. There's no issue with docking, as everything's always where I left it. And finally, I have a desk in my home office and that's where I work. When I leave my office at the end of the day, I'm done doing "serious" work. I have an iPad Pro I carry around the house for content consumption and doing lightweight work like blogging (with a keyboard case) or replying to emails. But while I could write software on my iPad, it's just so much more comfortable at the desk in my office that in practice I'm not going to. So far, separating between "work" and "play" modes has been a huge success for me.

japhyr 5y ago
The Mac Studio looks like a perfect replacement for my always-docked 2017 MacBook pro. If you were replacing this today, would you stay with the Mac Mini or go with the Studio? There was always such a wide gap between the Mini and the Mac Pro that I have preferred a decently specced MacBook to the Mini. But I think the Studio changes that for me.
- tomjen3 5y ago
  I have an M1 air, which is the same chip as the mini, and I haven't hid a performance point for coding yet and that is with the air throtting after about 8 minutes on max CPU (something which the mini won't do, because it has a fan). Of course if you do GPU intensive stuff, that might be an issue. Do keep in mind that the single core is not much faster on the studio, there are just more cores. My only regret is only getting 512 GB disk space.
  - kstrauser 5y ago
    Definitely spring for the 1TB since you can't upgrade it later.
- kstrauser 5y ago
  If I were buying one out of my own wallet, I'd probably get a Mini. It's such a great little computer. If work's picking up the tab, like if it's time for a hardware refresh, I'd definitely get the Studio. It's not that much more than a nice MBP and seems to be a beast.

drums8787 5y ago

When working at home (most days) my Macbook Pro is mostly a terminal to my desktop running VMs on ESXi. Silent, fast, solid. I love that the Mac can run the VMs I need in a pinch when I need to leave the house but it's always whining when doing so.

saralily 5y ago

Sounds like the author wants a Talos II https://www.raptorcs.com/ https://www.raptorcs.com/

awiesenhofer 5y ago
"Starting at $5,165.00" for the entry level system: 4 cores, 8gb ram, 128gb SSD, integrated graphics. Thanks but no thanks.

ashtonkem 5y ago

I’ve been saying for years that laptops come with rather severe tradeoffs for features that most users do not need.

bluSCALE4 5y ago

That's why I got my son a desktop. He's not a big fan yet but it has access to my steam, dual boot to ubuntu, and a webcam so he has no excuse to avoid doing "school work" on it.

mitchdoogle 5y ago

I've used laptops occasionally when I had to, but I've never even thought about giving up a desktop computer as my main computer for daily use.

justinlloyd 5y ago

We're a two person household with four or five laptops and a variety of tablets. But we're also a two-person household with a full fledged GPU/CPU compute workstation, a dedicated gaming/VR tower, two (somewhat) upgradeable all-in-one kitchen computers that are getting a bit long in the tooth and of course, the usual clutch of miscellaneous servers. We run Linux, macOS and Windows in a variety of configurations. Many people don't have a need, or a desire, for a dedicated computer, not even a laptop. The world that we as technologists live in is vastly different from the majority of people who are passive consumers of content rather than active producers.

advael 5y ago

I find myself in the weird position of agreeing with the desire for computing power, general purpose computation, software freedom, and ergonomics, and being baffled by the rest of this take. Platform availability: Others have pointed out that UEFI hasn't even been a minor hindrance to the linux ecosystem for several years. But also, the post author's argument against the numerous efforts to make linux-first laptops is "They're overpriced", which is not only barely true, but also nuts considering their other positions. Price-fixing is the classic monopoly play, and if you're not willing to initially pay more, you're not serious about fighting Microsoft, period. Also, the Framework Laptop has gotten a ton of press in tech circles, and exactly solves the problem of laptops not being upgradeable. Yes, the basic consumer market is going the direction the poster claims, but alternatives do exist and supporting them is not that difficult if you care. Ergonomics: SSH provides a perfect way to run your own "cloud" computing solution by having a powerful desktop that you access through a portable laptop (not to mention having a built-in protocol to make a secure tunnel for any service you can imagine). Barrier makes this even more seamless with the ability to ad-hoc treat multiple computers as multiple monitors which still run separated userspaces. These two pieces of software alone give you the best of both worlds, and are simple to configure and available in every linux distro there is. I've repurposed numerous old laptops into workspaces with their own monitors, which I can then use as a dynamic multi-monitor setup with my tower and any laptop I currently use, and I tend to aim for either ridiculously cheap (Like the Pinebook Pro) or ridiculously portable (Ultrathins. I honestly really love having an effectively weightless computer I can put in a backpack I'll be biking with without a second thought about weight, and will totally pay a premium for it) for those. Also, maybe I just have tiny hands, but I don't find laptop form-factors that annoying unless doing very specific tasks that need a real mouse. Even typing on chiclet keyboards with acrylic nails (not something I'm used to having) was a 5-minute adjustment at worst Throwing up your hands and saying "the battle for general computation is already lost!" strikes me as premature doomer nonsense, given how many people care about this and are creating solutions to all these problems. Hell, the solutions to the problems the author mentions aren't even hard to find

pkulak 5y ago

I just bought a Dell Optiplex built in... I think 2015, on Ebay for $120. Gonna upgrade the memory and storage, then see how it goes. If I like it, I might pick up a few more for the kids. Everyone in the house right now has laptops, and they just sit in the same place, always plugged in, all the time.

dustymcp 5y ago

I never left, every laptop i ever tried just feels inferior against my desktop environment, its just not the same in any category..

bitwize 5y ago

I decided to main a Ryzen desktop back in 2018 to replace my aging 2010 ThinkPad. I doubled the RAM to 32 GiB and now I have a workhorse that can chew through compiles at breakneck speed and spin up multiple VMs without taxing the host desktop. Or run a couple Electron apps :) Best part is, I can upgrade the components in the future for additional growth. Note that by going with a desktop you do not avoid UEFI. UEFI with Secure Boot is the standard boot environment for Intel PCs, regardless of form factor. Microsoft is the only root of trust vendors will recognize; you will have to contact the vendors individually and pay out many millions of dollars each to become a root of trust for UEFI PCs. For the time being Microsoft has deigned to require disablement of Secure Boot or installation of user certificates, but that may change. The reality is, your PC only boots Linux (or BSD, etc.) because Microsoft allows it.

rrrodia 5y ago

This might be a weird idea, but what about: a laptop style wireless interface for a desktop computer. Does this exist? wireless display+bt keyboard+ bt touchpad

ejj28 5y ago
A more practical and commonly used solution would be to use a cheap laptop to remote into a desktop computer. I've known people who've used chromebooks for this exact purpose.

ineedasername 5y ago

>Thin laptops are thermally throttled due to insufficient airflow Yes, the U-series intel i-X CPU's all do this. I have an old desktop w/ a 4th gen i3, and it performs better in benchmarks than new U-series i5 CPUs. And in practice outside of benchmarks, it feels significantly faster for have tons of tabs open, toggling between a few excel files with thousands of rows, data visualization (mostly Tableau) and gaming. Same with a 10yr old Xeon proc I had in an old desktop workstation at work compared to the 3yr old work laptop. A couple months ago I was due for a laptop upgrade and insisted they give me "anything but a U-series". They dug up a 9th gen H-series and they seemed to think the thing was worthless because it wasn't the latest gen. Meanwhile it had 32GB of RAM and a quatro 2000 GPU, so I jumped at it. I only get about 1.5 hours of batter in high performance mode, but it's fine. I'm not doing heavy loads in meetings so I just swap power profiles. In short, it's extremely likely that any mobile CPU is seriously underpowered compared to a desktop CPU from 6-10 years ago.

vladvasiliu 5y ago
Depending on what you do, you may be impressed with zen 3 u cpus. I was in the same boat, with an old 8-core Xeon something from like 2013 (it takes DDR3 RAM, and was one of the first to support PCIE 3). It was so fast, it ran circles around my current work computers (basic enterprise i5 HP). Then I insisted on a zen 3 laptop at the end of last year, and for rust compiles, it's almost twice as fast as the Xeon. It only has a 5650U (6 cores + HT), and a teeny-tiny heat sink. It does get somewhat noisy under load, but it's dead silent most of the time, including in Teams video chats!
- ineedasername 5y ago
  Good to know-- I'll consider AMD hardware the next time around. I have them in my primary home/gaming laptop, not a low power version though, and greatly prefer it to the 7th gen i7 I had previously. Both were about the same on single core (doesn't seem like there's been a lot of movement on that in recent years?) But the AMD is much better on anything multi core and seems to punch above it's weight class on GPU.

cudgy 5y ago

> I know that new "open" laptops are still available, but most of them--the System76's, the Purisms, etc.--are overpriced in my opinion. The author cares enough about this issue to write this article, but they are unwilling to support companies that are trying to address the issue due to increased cost. Is this really as important of a problem to the author as the author indicates? How will this issue ever change if companies that try to appeal to this niche market are not validated by consumers? Reminds me of how many products are now made in China due to savings even at the expense of the middle class of many nations. People weren’t willing to pay more for products made in their own countries, and now there are critical supply shortages created by the wave of the hand of a leader far away.

MarkusWandel 5y ago

I'm curious. Has there ever been an x86 laptop on which secure boot can't be turned off? The most obnoxious I've encountered took quite a few steps, from an obscure key combination to even get into the setup menu, to a couple of "are you sure?", "enter these digits to confirm" kind of scare prompts, to at least one restart, before it was off. Felt kind of like unlocking a carrier-locked smartphone. Pain in the ass and a bit scary, but ultimately possible, and once it's done, for good. After that a Linux install went just fine. Probably would have even without that, given what I read about trusted boot shims and so on. Mind you, all my (older) laptops still support proper suspend, you know, where the LED will happily blink for a couple of days on battery and you still have enough to use the computer.

thewebcount 5y ago

I don't get this part: > General-purpose computers allow us to own our music and videos--not just watch them until Netflix's contract for our favorite Star Wars movie expires or Apple decides to somehow prevent us from accessing our favorite song in its inventory. You can still buy music and videos to own. Music from iTunes and other download services has been DRM-free for decades. Plus there's always CDs. I bought one from Amazon recently, believe it or not! You can buy DVDs/BluRays for movies and TV shows. This has nothing to do with internet appliances or walled gardens, or whatever else this article is about.

timmahoney 5y ago
I’ve been buying mp3 albums from Amazon recently, which has been great because I can load them into my local MPD daemon for playback. I have a pandora account, which admittedly is how I discovered all this music in the first place, but MPD takes up next to no resources, so I end up using that most of the time!
f1refly 5y ago
Depending on where you live ripping user hostile restricted optical disks is illegal, even the possession of tools that can free you from the digital restrictions may be illegal, making you dependent on your bluray player supporting the disk you bought and leaving you behind should you want to watch the content anywhere besides your living room. In addition, there are now lots of movies and series that are only available if you agree to some streaming service's TOS without the option to own anything at all.

egypturnash 5y ago

This post, and the many people here celebrating their preference of desktops and wondering why anyone would ever use a laptop, spurred me to get under my desk and disconnect everything from the USBC breakout box so I could wrap some electrical tape around its fraying cable. Thanks, I've been putting that off for months now. FWIW the great thing about laptops for me is that I can plug it into my desk, with a big monitor, when I'm at home, then unplug it (just one plug now, used to be all of four, which takes about 60 seconds once you've figured out a way to make sure the business ends of the power/usb/monitor/audio cables never stray too far from where the lappy lives) and go sit out at a cafe. Or in a park. I really don't miss having to spend all my work hours in the home office.

javier_e06 5y ago

My laptop belongs to the suits. My pc (ASRock + GTX + Ryzen + Corsair) belongs to me. Sure I have a chromebook to toss around the living room to browse the web, but me owning a laptop? Ha!

guidoism 5y ago

I alternate between this. I had a Mac mini as my main computer but decided on a MacBook Air as my next computer because: 1. Every now and then it got disconnected from electricity because of my stupidity or the electricity going out. Having a built-in UPS is very nice. 2. Laptop has no fan. I much prefer to have my computer slow down than have to hear noise. Mac desktops for now don’t go for this trade off. 3. Every now and then it’s nice to be able to bring my main computer to a different place. I leave behind my monitor and mouse and take my keyboard and laptop and it’s not too bad for those odd occasions.

sleepybrett 5y ago

I've considered it due to remote work. Simply because I'm sitting here with a company laptop that is plugged into a docking station literally 100% of the time. Apple's battery management functions (pausing charging to not cook batteries) has bitten me on the ass a number of times it doesn't seem to realize that i'm working the cpu pretty hard (intel) and it drains the pittance of a battery i have left an d shuts down without bothering to start using wall power.

pjungwir 5y ago
I wonder if all the recent work-from-home has changed anything? My reaction to the headline was, "Some of us never left." But then I've worked from home for seventeen years. If I drove to an office every day, I might prefer to own just a laptop too. But working from home with an overpowered desktop is great! And if I want to work from the back porch I use the old Macbook Air, ssh in, and attach to my tmux sessions.

sohrob 5y ago

Author states "I know that new 'open' laptops are still available, but most of them--the System76's, the Purisms, etc.--are overpriced in my opinion." These companies are not manufacturing in China. They assemble their machines here in the U.S. and they don't have the advantage of economies of scale like other much larger firms.

tomc1985 5y ago

Many of you reading this are directly involved in this awful future, and if you are one of these folks you should be deeply ashamed of yourself.

kilohotel 5y ago

Calling the 1980s the "Golden Age" of computing is a big stretch lmao

rejectfinite 5y ago

I never left. I mean work gives me a laptop. But my desktop is from 2014. i7, 32GB RAM, I updated the GPU to a 1070ti w 3x 1440p monitors. And better keyboard and mouse, mechanical keyboard and mx master 3 mouse. Why use a laptop? Show me a laptop from 2014 that is still good.

SergeAx 5y ago

I am a software engineer and engineering manager and there's no way I can be productive on a laptop. Even when I have to use a laptop due to requirement by my job, I am using a large monitor as a USB-C dock station, with real keyboard and mouse connected. Even on the go I have a Bluetooth mouse and HDMI cable with me to connect hotel's TV as a large monitor.

sockaddr 5y ago

I also haven't owned a desktop in about 15 years but recently built one to replace my laptop. I specifically chose parts that had the most upgradability potential over time and while I'm at the beginning of this journey I'm pretty happy with my choice. I'm sort of thinking about only using a laptop as a commodity dumb terminal at this point. Crucially it gives me an exist to tinker again and that's why I got into computers in the first place.

Epiphany21 5y ago

After getting a decent workstation I can never go back to a laptop only. IMO laptops border on luxury toys. I use mine almost exclusively for checking emails and programming in places I just can't lug a desktop into, like the outdoors or an internet cafe.

danamit 5y ago

ITT: people swearing its impossible to use a laptop because some marginal differences, and because a mechanical keyboard 10x your productivity. I use both a laptop and a desktop, but I mainly work on my laptop, because I can have my work there with me, and I can work from everywhere, I don't feel like it? I go to a cafe and work from there. I have to visit my sister today and I wasn't planning to? ohh nice, I am taking my laptop with me. People act like programming is data entry, and that's it all about actions per minute. "My button clicking speed lineary correlate with my code output", doesn't work like that.

windex 5y ago

I went the Intel NUC8 way a couple of months ago after wanting larger 4k displays and faster drives. Pretty good value for money. I dont game etc, so I just needed the basics.

datavirtue 5y ago

MDI til I die. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple-document_interface https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple-document_interface

lifeplusplus 5y ago

I'm more productive at desktop but I just can't sit in one place for more than 2 hours in span of 10 hours so a laptop allows me to move to sofa, bed and other places... Standing, sitting, laying, and horse posture when your knees are on ground but laptop on bed. Also reason I always abhorred office life. 8 hours in a chair made me want to punch a person next to me