9 ms·
Are toxoplasma-infected subjects more attractive than non-infected ones?
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- riccardopa 5y agoN=35,178. Give us a break, its too small of a study to make any conclusion.
- bee_rider 5y agoNote that the 35,178 in this comment is actually a list, aka in python: [35, 178], and not the number 35,178 -- which would of course be a large enough sample size to make some observations.
- jsnodlin 5y ago
- mrfusion 5y ago/s?
- _nhynes 5y ago35 infected, 178 uninfected. The comma is misleading. A slash or semicolon might be better.
- netizen-936824 5y agoIts more than misleading There's no space after the comma and the commenter is putting two values in a single variable which normal holds an integer
- tokai 5y agoJokes on you, nothing is concluded. "Our results suggest [...] these results lay the foundation for future research" Its the classic do an easy little study, and suggest that the potential for results might point to further studies. Now you have something to tell your research coordinator next time they get in your hair.
- hombre_fatal 5y agoWe should just have an HN bot that posts these comments if N<1000 or paper.includes(/rats|mice/) for people to upvote.
- carabiner 5y agoWait until HNers find out that n = 10 can be more significant than n = 100 via power analysis.
- hex4def6 5y agoAre toxoplasma-infected scientists more likely to shill for Big Toxoplasma?
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- michalrichards9 5y agoThe statistics in this paper are... not robust IMHO. They do so many comparisons between the groups and never mention any multiple comparisons correction. Interesting idea, I am not convinced right now - but let's see if it reproduces.
- lupire 5y agoIt may be more likely to reproduce if it gets infected with toxoplasma.
- Quixotica1 5y agoWell said, lol
- mrfusion 5y agoToxoplasma are kinda like the Gould. Can they help us heal too?
- rdevsrex 5y agoI believe it's spelled Goa'uld :) Who knows, but the very fact that a parasite can co-opt our sense of smell to make cat urine smell not as bad, is saying something.
- ben_w 5y agoI also assume that’s what mrfusion meant, but there is also Sabine Baring-Gould who wrote (among other works) “The Book of Were-Wolves”, which is clearly relevant to the topic of mysterious healing powers: https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Book_of_Were-Wolves https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Book_of_Were-Wolves
- marcodiego 5y ago"we found that infected men had lower facial fluctuating asymmetry whereas infected women had lower body mass, lower body mass index, a tendency for lower facial fluctuating asymmetry, higher self-perceived attractiveness, and a higher number of sexual partners than non-infected ones. Then, we found that infected men and women were rated as more attractive and healthier than non-infected ones."
- winrid 5y agoPeople would pay out the ass for medicine that does what they say this does! :)
- pengaru 5y agoIsn't it already understood that toxoplasmosis increases risk-taking behavior? More sexual mates is riskier, living athletic/outdoorsy/"active" lives is also more risky than being a couch potato... I don't think we're breaking new ground in saying the risk-averse tend to be less sexually attractive.
- adhesive_wombat 5y agoFirst we had Botox, but how long until you can have Toxtox and have someone inject protozoa into your face in their living room?
- abeppu 5y agoFrom a quick skim, it looks like they don't present anything which would distinguish which way the causal arrow points. Do the parasites make their hosts more attractive so they are more likely to be passed on, or do more attractive people have more sex that gives them opportunities to be infected?
- holub008 5y agoSeriously, has the bar sunk this low? I was certain the authors would express caution in interpreting causality, but alas: "Our results suggest that some sexually transmitted parasites, such as T. gondii, may produce changes in the appearance and behavior of the human host".
- lupire 5y ago> may That is expressing caution.
- holub008 5y agoPerhaps it's because I don't frequent the literature, but I interpret that as "T Gondii. may [provided by our level of statistical certainty in MANCOVA] produce changes". Otherwise, what's the point of performing a statistical analysis? Moreover what's the value of any assertion if it can be guarded by an unbounded-uncertainty keyword "may".
- ascar 5y agoI think that's a classic case of reading between the lines and making implications where one shouldn't. If I'm using words that state uncertainty, it is because I am not certain, but only say it is a possibility. A research result that shows there is a correlation is already interesting without establishing or confirming causation. Their wording is exactly saying that. Without that paper we wouldn't even know there is a correlation! How else would you like them to state that without being overly verbose?
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- callesgg 5y agoBeing infected with toxoplasma is know to increase reckless behaviour. Having sex with lots of people can be seen as reckless behaviour. Using that argument the conclusion is somewhat reasonable. Another one I have thought about is HPV virus(or other sexualy transmitted illnesses) and your desire to have sex. There should be a strong evolutionary pressure for the virus to increase your sex drive. If it does, I don't know.
- sometimeshuman 5y agoRecklessness in men, is, by its very nature, sexy[0]. Whether toxoplasma became genetically lucky (i.e., trait that is immediately genetically stable after a few mutations) or if evolutionary pressure created this effect (i.e., many generations where this trait grows over time) may be impossible to ever know. Edit: Downvotes, again? Added a reference. A scientific claim about evolutionary psychology can have merit even if it doesn't fit your personal hopes for the human race. Furthermore, in what world do the downvoters live where women are more likely to causally sleep with the cautious inconspicuous male vs the reckless bad-boy. [0] https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/reckless-men-are-more-likely-to-find-a-mate-35t0znb9q https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/reckless-men-are-more-lik...
- callesgg 5y agoWell, you wrote by its very nature. For something to be of its very nature it has to be part of that thing. No reference in the world can make one thing in to another.
- pessimizer 5y agoThe referenced study is weird[0]. It uses smoking and drinking as a proxy for recklessness in men, but doesn't seem to take into account at all whether the women who were evaluating the men smoked or drank themselves. It's like it forgot it was specifically about smoking and drinking, not recklessness. Smoking and drinking women young women (<30) would intuitively find smoking and drinking men more attractive for a short term thing, and find that behavior less acceptable for the long term as they probably find it less acceptable for themselves in the long term. Somebody else did this analysis with smokers, but didn't treat the women as fungible[1]. They found the heightened attraction to smokers was limited to smokers. IMO, we don't really need explanation for why reckless (i.e. brave, risky decisionmaking) people have more short-term relationships. They're more willing to proposition people (brave), and more willing to sleep with people who they will ultimately decide they actually don't like (risky decisionmaking.) This is by definition, as valid if not more than the use smoking and drinking as a definitive sign or recklessness. I'm not saying that people who smoke and drink are more likely to make brave and risky decisions when it comes to interactions with potential sexual partners, but both sets of behaviors can be called "reckless." > in what world [are] women are more likely to causally sleep with the cautious inconspicuous male vs the reckless bad-boy. The world in which the cautious inconspicuous male approached her, and the reckless bad boy didn't. Reckless behavior in women is also attractive, but it isn't due to conforming to some chad stereotype; it's due to the fact that if a woman makes bad decisions, sleeping with you might be one of them. [0] https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1474704916631615 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/14747049166316... [1] https://www.researchgate.net/publication/263849372_Can_cigarette_smoking_make_a_man_appear_sexier_and_stronger_to_women https://www.researchgate.net/publication/263849372_Can_cigar...
- stuckinhell 5y agohttps://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/the-parasite-that-makes-a-rat-love-a-cat-86515093/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/the-parasite-t... This parasite alters sexual behavior in rats, could this be altering people's behavior not just their appearance as well?!
- lupire 5y agoYes, that's why the OP study was done. Toxoplasma has long been theorized to be a factor in "cat lady" stereotypical behavior.
- collegeburner 5y agoCat lady stereotype runs the other way in attractiveness, counter to the hypothesis formulation.
- lupire 5y agoOP study is about facial physical attractiveness, not lifestyle attractiveness.
- lupire 5y agoEven suggesting that facial assymetry in adults, which takes decades to develop, is reduced by a parasite, is an extremely extraordinary claim, that requires far more evidence than this. What plausible mechanism is there for the body to even detect asymmetry and then change it? Your brain can't make your ear move lower.
- nootropicat 5y ago>t. toxoplasma gondii
- dsign 5y agoWell, I for one believe and amuse myself with the findings of this paper. It reminds us that nature is not a divinity of perfection working in our favor (if anybody had any doubt at this point, that is).
- auntienomen 5y agoOf course they are! They have a kitty!
- tornato7 5y agoSo people with cats are happier and take better care of themselves
- collegeburner 5y agoDon't let the incels get ahold of this, they'll be eating cat poop by the bucketful.
- freddealmeida 5y agoIt is clear that parasites do change our genome and how we express our genes in order to further transmit themselves. It would not be surprising that good looks, lower body fat, etc increases sexual contact and therefor transmission. New sexual strategies are need I suppose.
- kwatsonafter 5y agoMan that's some fucked up shit. I'd bet you'll see Kardash-clone ladies putting catshit flakes on their cereal to get, "lean'd." I think it's important to note the apostrophe, "d."
- xbar 5y agoMy anecdotal experience is contrary to the science.
- musicale 5y agoTo cats, yes.
- dataangel 5y agoCould it be that on verge people who own cats are more attractive? You do have to be well enough to be able to take care of another living thing.
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- bradgranath 5y ago