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Government: You owe us money. It’s called taxes. Me: How much do I owe? Gov’t: You have to figure that out. Me: I just pay what I want? Gov’t: Oh, no we kno

• singron 5y ago
  Obviously it's a joke, but if you get it wrong, they send you the right amount and then you pay it (or they pay you). As long as you are close with your on-time payment, the interest is very reasonable on small differences. It's probably cheaper than paying for turbotax if you would have to pay for that.
  • deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  • taf2 5y ago
    The best is the 50 cent check in the mail… literally the postage cost more to deliver the return check.
    • jahewson 5y ago
      Tax is rounded to the nearest dollar though.
      • tymekpavel 5y ago
        I can confirm I’ve received a check for $0.01 from the IRS. My understanding is it was because of miscalculation of interest owed.
• zw123456 5y ago
  ya, so why not just send me a statement once a month, the power company does that, the cell phone company does that, the city I live in does that, etc. Just send me a statement, you made this, you get this much deduction for the other crap or whatever. No stupid W2, W4 1040, bunch of mumbo jumbo from the 1950's that a few companies are ripping us off over IMO.
  • arlcode 5y ago
    That's basically how it works in Germany. There is a formula in the law that specifies how much if your salary gets deducted every month based on specific criteria such as your marital status, your religion (yeah church taxes), whether it is your primary or secondary job etc. That amount is calculated to be enough (a little bit to much in fact) to cover taxes for most people employed with a single job. Unless you have extra income or deductions beyond a certain amount you don't have to file any tax return. If you want to file one (pre filled with what they know) the government calculates what you need to pay/are owed and you have the right to dispute that. You can use the free digitalised version of the former paper form or you can use a number of (often inexpensive) commercial programs
    • deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    • zw123456 5y ago
      German efficiency! I like it, my city government sends me a statement once a month, says you owe this amount for police, that amount for fire, some other amount for sewer and water, some amount for schools. Maybe I disagree with some of the amounts, fair to discuss, that's democracy. But they don't play that idiotic game the feds do, you owe a certain amount, if you guess it correctly, or if you on purpose short it but we don't catch you at it, then nothing happens. But if we randomly catch you getting it wrong then we fuck with you. I hate that.
• supramouse 5y ago
  you don't really go to prison unless you're going out of you way to do something really nefarious it's also super easy to setup a payment plan online now if you really mess things up
  • zw123456 5y ago
    well, I am walking around free so, for sure you don't go to prison but you pay a penalty perhaps. In my case I just paid it. It was an honest mistake and they did not bust my chops over it, they did charge interest, which is stupid. But, fine, if your computer can figure it out why not just send me the bill monthly like my city government does?
    • supramouse 5y ago
      IRS is currently in the MVP phase, waiting on buy in from the steakholders on UX improvements
  • KennyBlanken 5y ago
• softveda 5y ago
  This is how is works in Australia. The Australian Tax Office will pre-fill your tax return online with income from your wages, interests, managed fund distributions, dividends etc. That maybe enough for simple tax returns, you can just accept their values and submit. What they don't know is your income from sources like rental income or crypto. They also don't know deductions you are going to claim. In this case you will have to provide the details. Still free to lodge your returns online.
  • JSavageOne 5y ago
    Pretty much every other major developed country operates like this. Here in South Korea for example filing taxes is as simple as logging into some government portal, verifying that the information they already have on you is correct, and making any corrections if necessary. 10 minutes, done. The U.S is unique in forcing its citizens to waste countless hours and pay hundreds/thousands of dollars every year doing the useless unnecessary work of "filing taxes". Why is the system still this backwards? Either plain ignorance of there being a superior alternative, or a broken political system that can't get anything done. My guess is it's a combination of both.
    • mikeInAlaska 5y ago
      > Why is the system still this backwards? Intuit lobbying hard to keep tax rules complex.
      • JSavageOne 5y ago
        Blaming "lobbyists" absolves the politicians of their responsibility. The fault lies with the politicians for creating and perpetuating this broken system. (copy and pasted from another comment)
        • jacobolus 5y ago
          Like anyone else, politicians respond to incentives. US crony capitalism is a large-scale systemic failure, and the tax filing system (and under-resourced IRS) is just one symptom. If you want a narrow target, you can blame the GOP activists on the US Supreme Court, or if you want to go beyond that, blame the GOP senators/presidents who appointed them, the Federalist Society, the GOP donor base, GOP-aligned media organizations, etc. Gutting campaign finance restrictions was a vast judicial overreach, performed for partisan advantage and the benefit of corrupt wealthy patrons.
• randmeerkat 5y ago
  What’s crazy is that unreasonable taxes is one of the main reasons _why_ the British settlers rebelled against the Crown and went on to found America. The fact that nearly 250 years later we have an absurd, convoluted tax system, that literally requires specialists and companies with absurd market caps, for example Intuit has a $137B market cap, shows just how broken the system has become.
  • PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
    The central problem is the refusal of US governments (state & federal) to pay people money to do things they want to encourage rather than give them tax credits and whatnot.
    • quantified 5y ago
      Well, Intuit lobbying/bribery has a lot to do with it in the last couple decades.
      • PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
        I was referring to the complexity of the tax code, not the filing system itself.
        • azemetre 5y ago
          Complexity of the tax code is just part of the system Intuit wants. If taxes were simple you wouldn't have to pay for unique software right?
          • PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
            While I absolute believe that Intuit and others are responsible for the lack of (1) free, highly functional e-filing and (2) response filing, the complexity in the US tax code is beyond their purview and precedes their existence.
    • 5y ago
• btgeekboy 5y ago
  It’s a nice, if overly simplistic sentiment. It’d be nice if my 1099s were electronically filed with the cost basis. But they’re not. So the IRS, every year, thinks I’m going to owe way more than I do. The IRS also has zero idea about the $4000+ of sales tax deductions I’m filing for this year. And finally, if you do get it wrong, you don’t go to jail. They send you a CP2000 letter. (Remember those 1099s? I forgot one one year.) You fix the problem or show them their error. They’ll even waive the penalties the first time. It’s a somewhat easy process.
  • throwaway09223 5y ago
    I agree. The IRS definitely does not know how much I owe each year. However, they do have an estimate and the vast majority of people would accept this estimate. So I think it's reasonable to suggest it ought to be provided. I think the strongest counter-argument against this approach is in regards to bad actors and who discloses first. If you're thinking about hiding income and the first step is the government telling you what it thinks then you're very likely to continue to conceal and/or have a defense against a charge of concealment down the road ("I just used the IRS figures!") It's a much more difficult situation for a bad actor if they have to disclose first without knowing for sure what the IRS knows.
    • meshaneian 5y ago
      I like this argument more knowing it circles back to the "guess what the IRS knows" game earlier. :)
    • briandear 5y ago
      > the vast majority of people would accept this estimate. And the vast majority of people would then overpay. The IRS knows income, but they don’t know expenses.
      • throwaway09223 5y ago
        This would be true if it weren't for the standard deduction. Something like 90% of all filers opt for the standard deduction, obviating the need for itemized expenses. Almost everyone would be best served by IRS calculated taxes. It's the wealthy and those with non-wage income who need the alphabet schedules.
• matheusmoreira 5y ago
  Having to spend our own time, money and effort in order to work out how much money we have to pay the government for their crappy low quality services. Just yet another humiliation the government imposes on citizens.
• blowski 5y ago
  In the UK, I’m told how much I owe. A year later, I get fined because they told me the wrong amount.
• makeitdouble 5y ago
  The alternative is: Gov’t: You owe us money. We took the amount we want directly from your income. Me: But shouldn't the amount be lower because of X and Y and Z ? Gov’t: Send us all the right paperwork and we might give you back some of what we took if we agree with your claim. I actually like this version better (and it's also what I am used to), but I'd see people being uncomfortable with that arrangement.
  • Thlom 5y ago
    My employer pay taxes for me based on either a table or percentage (this is up to me). At the end of the year our tax authorities sums everything together (income, capital gains, ownership, debt and so on) and sends me my preliminary tax report for me to verify and make changes to. For normal people it's usually correct with most deductibles already accounted for. It's easy to fill in any other deductibles or income that is not already accounted for. This year it ended up with the government owing me approx. $2000.
• aj7 5y ago
  You do not have to guess “what the government knows.” Download your income transcript. See the “methodology” I replied above in response to this comment.
• MisterTea 5y ago
  The best part is your employer already sent them the income tax money you owe them but you still have to tell them how much money someone else gave them. Its an absurdly brain damaged system.